Dopamine = Very Male Energy. Cortisol/serotonin = Female

[michael94]

This makes no sense. Remember that the more high value females perceive you, the more they become intimidated by you. So they show less signs of interest, when in fact they are more attracted to you. But they are intimidated by you.
This is why some guys who lift and get big suddenly notice a decrease in IOIs from women, at least that is what they think. When in fact, it's the opposite.

lol

 

[baccheion]

so post ovulation women would rather **** with low t males? or rather have a monogamous relationship?
lets say they are in a relationship
if they cheat, do they cheat with a higher or lower t male than the father of their child?
this is attraction
not who they choose to take care of the child

Yes, women instinctively begin seeking someone to take care of the child even if not actually pregnant. As the body is unsure of pregnancy at that time, it continues as though it is.

Women are most likely to cheat during ovulation. The type desired during ovulation is unlike the pattern from other phases.

 

[lampofred]

Adrenaline (fat-based) is more male. With adrenaline you are more active and high performing in corporate roles but women tend to not like you. Fat oxidation comes with increased phosphate and women seem to hate phosphate, which I think is associated with greed and selfishness and social defeat.

Cortisol (sugar-based) is more female. You are more cool-headed and passive but might not be as well-performing at work. But you are calmer, sweeter, less selfish, but in a way also less submissive than hot-headed high adrenaline people because of a calmer mind.

With thyroid (sugar-based but low cortisol) you are liked by both men and women, and are both cool-headed and accomplished.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

There is a „get-laid“ stack? Nice. What does it consist of apart from Phenibut.
I’ve read some pseudo-science that high dopa and GabaB type is alpha

Depends on the time of the month.

During ovulation (higher estrogen and testosterone), women are attracted to alphas (higher testosterone and ...). After ovulation (higher progesterone), women are attracted to "effeminate males" (lower testosterone, lower estrogen, and preferably lower cortisol). During bleeding and until ovulation starts again (higher estrogen), women are attracted to feminine faces (I'm assuming higher estrogen)..

Phenibut, the main in the "get laid" stack, is associated with GABA. Seems progesterone-like in a way, leading me to believe attraction is increased among women that are post ovulation (ie, seeking someone to take care of the child)..[/QU

 

[baccheion]

Adrenaline (fat-based) is more male. With adrenaline you are more active and high performing in corporate roles but women tend to not like you. Fat oxidation comes with increased phosphate and women seem to hate phosphate, which I think is associated with greed and selfishness and social defeat.

Cortisol (sugar-based) is more female. You are more cool-headed and passive but might not be as well-performing at work. But you are calmer, sweeter, less selfish, but in a way also less submissive than hot-headed high adrenaline people because of a calmer mind.

With thyroid (sugar-based but low cortisol) you are liked by both men and women, and are both cool-headed and accomplished.

Thyroid leading is associated with progesterone. DHT is associated with thyroid, as it increases thyroid hormones. DHT also increases adrenaline, but then also GABA. That is, thyroid being the leader results in a more effeminate disposition. The association with masculinity is just that, as increased thyroid hormones is a side effect of higher DHT.

DHT's catecholamine/adrenaline effect is incomplete without GABA.

There is a „get-laid“ stack? Nice. What does it consist of apart from Phenibut.
I’ve read some pseudo-science that high dopa and GabaB type is alpha

Phenibut + fasoracetam. I wouldn't take it, as many things have been said about phenibut.

The idea is that anything that aligns the neurotransmitters would have such an effect. For example, I assume progesterone (+ DHEA?) if not too much is taken. Such a person would then be in the post ovulation bucket.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Im successful with women and a leader/alpha-type since kindergarten but I’ve also Experimented with some pheromones and they can compensate for a limited time with intrinsic shortcomings endocrine wise. Androstadienone has many interesting publications that expos its effects a bit bit I know a lot more about more molecules.

I find the data a bit inconsistent. It seems like some studies indicate that cortisol (immunity) is implied wirkt alpha apes- maybe if it doesn’t mean aromatase reigns free in spite of it

Alpha Chimpanzees are found to have the high dopamine levels and the lowest cortisol levels.

You can try and "change" your nuerochemistry with supplements/coffee/low trytophan diets. But this is about 90% genetic and situational behavior.

1) 6'4 25 years old with a lifetime of early childhood success=Dopamine level 1000% and zero cortisol as he quickly climbs the corporate ladder.

2) 5'5 and ugly and takes cyprohetadine to lower sertonin and cortisol= May feel good temporary but not fooling anyone or even his body as it quickly dowregulates the receptors.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Yes, women instinctively begin seeking someone to take care of the child even if not actually pregnant. As the body is unsure of pregnancy at that time, it continues as though it is.

Women are most likely to cheat during ovulation. The type desired during ovulation is unlike the pattern from other phases.

Based and redpilled.
@Ableton Women cheat with higher T man.
Alpha traits during ovulation, provider traits after. Every man into an LTR should know this.

 

[Ableton]

I already knew that women cheat with high t men lol
I am just surprised women are supposed to be „attracted“ to lower t men after ovulation
Its more like they get less sexual at this point (dead bedroom)

 

[Jib]

Social Dominance in Monkeys: Dopamine D2 Receptors and Cocaine Self-Administration - PubMed

Disruption of the dopaminergic system has been implicated in the etiology of many pathological conditions, including drug addiction. Here we used positron emission tomography (PET) imaging to study brain dopaminergic function in individually housed and in socially housed cynomolgus macaques (n = 20). Whereas the monkeys did not differ during individual housing, social housing increased the amount or availability of dopamine D2 receptors in dominant monkeys and produced no change in subordinate monkeys. These neurobiological changes had an important behavioral influence as demonstrated by the finding that cocaine functioned as a reinforcer in subordinate but not dominant monkeys. These data demonstrate that alterations in an organism's environment can produce profound biological changes that have important behavioral associations, including vulnerability to cocaine addiction.

The costs of dominance: testosterone, cortisol and intestinal parasites in wild male chimpanzees

"Because cortisol is released in response to various stressors, a typical assumption has been that acute and sustained social stressors associated with low dominance status would result in chronic elevations in cortisol levels in low ranking animals. In some species, cortisol levels are higher in low than high ranking individuals, whereas in other species the opposite is true [55]. The relationships between cortisol and dominance rank may depend on access to social support systems [56]. Furthermore, during times of social instability, high ranking animals will likely exhibit the highest cortisol levels, probably due to the need for increased arousal and vigilance [57]."

------------------------------------

Complexity abounds.

I think worrying about neurotransmitters is a buffer against taking action. Better to just forget about social hierarchies and neurotransmitters and worry more about taking action to get what you want. I don't think masculinity/femininity matters as much as just having the courage to make a move. Usually that starts with simply asking to hang out, to be in a situation where you can be alone with someone you're attracted to.

That takes a lot of courage. Most people don't do this, myself included, either due to simple fear/anxiety, or past relationship trauma, etc. I was in a very traumatic relationship that lasted four years and have never been the same since. I don't think of it as me having high or low testosterone or cortisol when it comes to being afraid to approach women anymore. It's more that my brain remembers that being in a close relationship caused an extreme amount of distress in my life and it's having a very hard time forgetting that and thinking that it 'won't happen again' with someone new.

I've avoided opportunities to have sex, against my will, like I literally had a panic attack and had to leave, on more than one occasion with different girls. I didn't have that before my last relationship. Seems much more like a 'programming' issue in the brain than something as reductionist as testosterone vs. cortisol.

Who knows, though. I'm pretty out of shape and obviously (beer belly) in a high-cortisol, lower metabolic state. Still, if I was healthier, I'd just see that as giving me an opportunity to act. A better opportunity. But thinking I'm low T and high cortisol and using that as an excuse to just stagnate and not take action is not good either. Ironically being low T and high cortisol probably inclines people to sticking their head in the sand vs. dealing with their problems.

Of course, better health won't give you social skills. It isn't magic. And I'd be willing to bet that negative/self defeating thinking can single-handedly counteract testosterone and raise cortisol and just send you back into a spiral.

And it's also possible that while you're low T and high cortisol, pushing yourself into uncomfortable situations socially, and having success, could lower your cortisol and raise your testosterone. So perhaps the way to get out of poor health is to take actions that healthy people would take...and perhaps you'll adapt.

It can feel like the hardest thing in the world. I think most people with serious sexual/social issues have a history of trauma and high stress hormones are more of a reflection of that, rather than a cause. It's a catch 22 in a sense. Overall an unfortunate situation. "Free will" can be a tricky subject.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@Jib Based and testosterone-pilled.

 

[baccheion]

Social Dominance in Monkeys: Dopamine D2 Receptors and Cocaine Self-Administration - PubMed

Disruption of the dopaminergic system has been implicated in the etiology of many pathological conditions, including drug addiction. Here we used positron emission tomography (PET) imaging to study brain dopaminergic function in individually housed and in socially housed cynomolgus macaques (n = 20). Whereas the monkeys did not differ during individual housing, social housing increased the amount or availability of dopamine D2 receptors in dominant monkeys and produced no change in subordinate monkeys. These neurobiological changes had an important behavioral influence as demonstrated by the finding that cocaine functioned as a reinforcer in subordinate but not dominant monkeys. These data demonstrate that alterations in an organism's environment can produce profound biological changes that have important behavioral associations, including vulnerability to cocaine addiction.

The costs of dominance: testosterone, cortisol and intestinal parasites in wild male chimpanzees

"Because cortisol is released in response to various stressors, a typical assumption has been that acute and sustained social stressors associated with low dominance status would result in chronic elevations in cortisol levels in low ranking animals. In some species, cortisol levels are higher in low than high ranking individuals, whereas in other species the opposite is true [55]. The relationships between cortisol and dominance rank may depend on access to social support systems [56]. Furthermore, during times of social instability, high ranking animals will likely exhibit the highest cortisol levels, probably due to the need for increased arousal and vigilance [57]."

------------------------------------

Complexity abounds.

I think worrying about neurotransmitters is a buffer against taking action. Better to just forget about social hierarchies and neurotransmitters and worry more about taking action to get what you want. I don't think masculinity/femininity matters as much as just having the courage to make a move. Usually that starts with simply asking to hang out, to be in a situation where you can be alone with someone you're attracted to.

That takes a lot of courage. Most people don't do this, myself included, either due to simple fear/anxiety, or past relationship trauma, etc. I was in a very traumatic relationship that lasted four years and have never been the same since. I don't think of it as me having high or low testosterone or cortisol when it comes to being afraid to approach women anymore. It's more that my brain remembers that being in a close relationship caused an extreme amount of distress in my life and it's having a very hard time forgetting that and thinking that it 'won't happen again' with someone new.

I've avoided opportunities to have sex, against my will, like I literally had a panic attack and had to leave, on more than one occasion with different girls. I didn't have that before my last relationship. Seems much more like a 'programming' issue in the brain than something as reductionist as testosterone vs. cortisol.

Who knows, though. I'm pretty out of shape and obviously (beer belly) in a high-cortisol, lower metabolic state. Still, if I was healthier, I'd just see that as giving me an opportunity to act. A better opportunity. But thinking I'm low T and high cortisol and using that as an excuse to just stagnate and not take action is not good either. Ironically being low T and high cortisol probably inclines people to sticking their head in the sand vs. dealing with their problems.

Of course, better health won't give you social skills. It isn't magic. And I'd be willing to bet that negative/self defeating thinking can single-handedly counteract testosterone and raise cortisol and just send you back into a spiral.

And it's also possible that while you're low T and high cortisol, pushing yourself into uncomfortable situations socially, and having success, could lower your cortisol and raise your testosterone. So perhaps the way to get out of poor health is to take actions that healthy people would take...and perhaps you'll adapt.

It can feel like the hardest thing in the world. I think most people with serious sexual/social issues have a history of trauma and high stress hormones are more of a reflection of that, rather than a cause. It's a catch 22 in a sense. Overall an unfortunate situation. "Free will" can be a tricky subject.

Not worrying about anything. Trying to become more aware. Always. It happens or it doesn't. Take steps to increase likelihood of it does happen. Why wouldn't you?

Anxiety and fear are unbecoming and need to be dealt with. Eat better, sleep better, supplement, meditate, exorcise the source of insecurity, prepare/practice before introducing yourself, gain inner confidence via knowing or whatever does it, etc.

You try to get better with time. Avoiding oneitis tends to leave the overarching statistics/odds, ones which becomes more favorable with refinement of perception/skill.

Timing is a critical factor on so many levels, one of which I mentioned above. You'd never think of that, would you?

It would be hard to discount the seeming irrelevance of many things until the consistency with which women usher toward and mention is put into view.

Overall vibe is important and it traces back to hormone balance, health status, and wiring (ie, innate personality and knowledge base). Posture, body language, assertiveness, confidence, mood/optimism, emotional stability, and other things associated with higher androgenicity:estrogenicity.

In progesterone mode, unless level is too high, similar traits are present. And chill among the more serotonin/estrogenic types? Each also has a glow (literal) that looks the same to me, but is seemingly distinguishable by women.

Important to be relaxed, steady, leading, and unphased. Of course, there are ways to not be so and still make it happen.

Innate personality is to be mentioned again, as such steps above assume an interaction featuring otherwise "compatible" personalities. For example, there's said to be a thing with INTP males preferring INFJ women. An INTP male would then want to avoid approaching at the wrong time of the month/day.

 

[Ableton]

Not worrying about anything. Trying to become more aware. Always. It happens or it doesn't. Take steps to increase likelihood of it does happen. Why wouldn't you?

Anxiety and fear are unbecoming and need to be dealt with. Eat better, sleep better, supplement, meditate, exorcise the source of insecurity, prepare/practice before introducing yourself, gain inner confidence via knowing or whatever does it, etc.

You try to get better with time. Avoiding oneitis tends to leave the overarching statistics/odds, ones which becomes more favorable with refinement of perception/skill.

Timing is a critical factor on so many levels, one of which I mentioned above. You'd never think of that, would you?

It would be hard to discount the seeming irrelevance of many things until the consistency with which women usher toward and mention is put into view.

Overall vibe is important and it traces back to hormone balance, health status, and wiring (ie, innate personality and knowledge base). Posture, body language, assertiveness, confidence, mood/optimism, emotional stability, and other things associated with higher androgenicity:estrogenicity.

In progesterone mode, unless level is too high, similar traits are present. And chill among the more serotonin/estrogenic types? Each also has a glow (literal) that looks the same to me, but is seemingly distinguishable by women.

Important to be relaxed, steady, leading, and unphased. Of course, there are ways to not be so and still make it happen.

idk man, i just stopped giving a ***t
works for me bro

 

[baccheion]

idk man, i just stopped giving a ***t
works for me bro

I never gave a sh*t. Just doing what I do.

By the end, it appeared I could just pop a pill and it'd be me too.

 

[michael94]

Maybe you should give a s***

 

[baccheion]

Maybe you should give a s***

Many who say "I don't give a sh*t" are full of..

 

[michael94]

Many who say "I don't give a sh*t" are full of..

Nothing wrong with it

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Social Dominance in Monkeys: Dopamine D2 Receptors and Cocaine Self-Administration - PubMed

Disruption of the dopaminergic system has been implicated in the etiology of many pathological conditions, including drug addiction. Here we used positron emission tomography (PET) imaging to study brain dopaminergic function in individually housed and in socially housed cynomolgus macaques (n = 20). Whereas the monkeys did not differ during individual housing, social housing increased the amount or availability of dopamine D2 receptors in dominant monkeys and produced no change in subordinate monkeys. These neurobiological changes had an important behavioral influence as demonstrated by the finding that cocaine functioned as a reinforcer in subordinate but not dominant monkeys. These data demonstrate that alterations in an organism's environment can produce profound biological changes that have important behavioral associations, including vulnerability to cocaine addiction.

The costs of dominance: testosterone, cortisol and intestinal parasites in wild male chimpanzees

"Because cortisol is released in response to various stressors, a typical assumption has been that acute and sustained social stressors associated with low dominance status would result in chronic elevations in cortisol levels in low ranking animals. In some species, cortisol levels are higher in low than high ranking individuals, whereas in other species the opposite is true [55]. The relationships between cortisol and dominance rank may depend on access to social support systems [56]. Furthermore, during times of social instability, high ranking animals will likely exhibit the highest cortisol levels, probably due to the need for increased arousal and vigilance [57]."

------------------------------------

Complexity abounds.

I think worrying about neurotransmitters is a buffer against taking action. Better to just forget about social hierarchies and neurotransmitters and worry more about taking action to get what you want. I don't think masculinity/femininity matters as much as just having the courage to make a move. Usually that starts with simply asking to hang out, to be in a situation where you can be alone with someone you're attracted to.

That takes a lot of courage. Most people don't do this, myself included, either due to simple fear/anxiety, or past relationship trauma, etc. I was in a very traumatic relationship that lasted four years and have never been the same since. I don't think of it as me having high or low testosterone or cortisol when it comes to being afraid to approach women anymore. It's more that my brain remembers that being in a close relationship caused an extreme amount of distress in my life and it's having a very hard time forgetting that and thinking that it 'won't happen again' with someone new.

I've avoided opportunities to have sex, against my will, like I literally had a panic attack and had to leave, on more than one occasion with different girls. I didn't have that before my last relationship. Seems much more like a 'programming' issue in the brain than something as reductionist as testosterone vs. cortisol.

Who knows, though. I'm pretty out of shape and obviously (beer belly) in a high-cortisol, lower metabolic state. Still, if I was healthier, I'd just see that as giving me an opportunity to act. A better opportunity. But thinking I'm low T and high cortisol and using that as an excuse to just stagnate and not take action is not good either. Ironically being low T and high cortisol probably inclines people to sticking their head in the sand vs. dealing with their problems.

Of course, better health won't give you social skills. It isn't magic. And I'd be willing to bet that negative/self defeating thinking can single-handedly counteract testosterone and raise cortisol and just send you back into a spiral.

And it's also possible that while you're low T and high cortisol, pushing yourself into uncomfortable situations socially, and having success, could lower your cortisol and raise your testosterone. So perhaps the way to get out of poor health is to take actions that healthy people would take...and perhaps you'll adapt.

It can feel like the hardest thing in the world. I think most people with serious sexual/social issues have a history of trauma and high stress hormones are more of a reflection of that, rather than a cause. It's a catch 22 in a sense. Overall an unfortunate situation. "Free will" can be a tricky subject.

Agree 100%,could not have said it better man.

 

[Andman]

I know some people will say I'm reading too much into this, but after years of experimentation with different supplements, I can say for certainty that those supplements that have strong dopamine raising effects make me much more amiable to other men and actually make me very unattractive to females (both in a sexual and non-sexual way). Without supplements, I naturally get on better with females (in just a friendship sense) as well as very non-alpha Male men so its very noticeable when I take dopaminergic substances and women i normally get on with distance themselves from me and very masculine/alpha men are much more interested in interacting with me.

Conversely, everything that increases serotonin/cortisol enhances my natural bonding ability with females (both sexual + non-sexual) and makes women and more "feminine men", very comfortable around me.

On top of this, reducing dopamine and increasing cortisol/ serotonin definitely makes the macho/ alpha male men completely uninterested in interacting with me.

I understand we each have very subtle and different biochemistry however at least for me this definitely stands true.

Dopamine = very strong male bonding energy (with macho/alpha men)

would be interesting to hear any other experiences

thats actually a very astute observation, i can def vouch for a profound intersocial effect of steroids like test for example (in many of the same ways you describe)

ive read about the effects of birth control pills on female (mating) behaviour, seems related and could spell doom for „masculine“ men

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Many who say "I don't give a sh*t" are full of..

thats actually a very astute observation, i can def vouch for a profound intersocial effect of steroids like test for example (in many of the same ways you describe)

ive read about the effects of birth control pills on female (mating) behaviour, seems related and could spell doom for „masculine“ men

I made some observations about women friends on birth control too. It's pretty scary to think about. Can you link me to some resources?

 

[Andman]

I made some observations about women friends on birth control too. It's pretty scary to think about. Can you link me to some resources?

none on hand unfortunately, its been a while. googling for birth control and partner preferences may yield some results. if i remember correctly it was basically stated that women on the pill tend to prefer „safer“ and genetically more similar men , as if they were pregnant. thats on top of what estrogens and progestins do to the body as a whole