Intense Stress During Passage Of Food Through Large Intestine

Creative Nature

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Heads up. Absorption rates topically are 15-20 x higher than orally.

The standard dosage of 25 drops would be 750-1000mg of b1 and 1.5g to 2 grams of b6. It might be jacking your metabolism up and you don't have the resources to handle it so adrenaline and cortisol kicked in.

I'm having very similar symptoms after a dose of antibiotics in January.

Thanks for your feedback, @Sam321. I've played around with the dosing of B vitamins a fair amount, and if anything, the oral route seems to produce significantly stronger effects for me. And my endotoxin symptoms often seem to get worse when I cut back on the B vitamins. But I'll rethink my dosing and watch for the effect you mention (insufficient nutrition to keep up with the B vitamins).

If you're experiencing similar symptoms, I'd like to read more about your case. Have you posted a thread on your GI problems?
 

Creative Nature

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Have you had a SIBO breath test?
Have you had a stool test for candida overgrowth?

What labs have you done?
I tested positive for methane producing sibo (normal antibiotics dont work against). I also have candida albicans and am excreting biofilm. Your symptoms sound like a mix of both, especially candida. I am having really similar symptoms as you as well.

I ended up taking propranolol to block my adrenaline response and ease off the anxiety and the doctor suggests a round of rifaximin and neomycin.

Bottom line is, of you suspect bacterial and fungal problems don't waste your time on guess work. Get some labs done to see if you have sibo or candida or h pylori and then try to resolve from there..

You can def make things worse with guess work. Sorry you are going thru it. I can seriously empathize.

Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

I hear you, man. I agree about the value of doing labs and not guessing. My doctors don't cooperate, though, and with limited mobility, getting to the lab is a challenge. So I've done few labs -- just a stool test, which I don't think covered h. pylori or candida, and no SIBO breath test.

You suggested that candida could explain some of my symptoms. Which symptoms did you have in mind?

Edit to add: Sorry to hear you're having similar problems.
 
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Motif

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Low stomach acid causes sibo. Sibo ***** everything up.

Chronic inescapable stress or depression causes low stomach acid.

Have you had a sibo test?
What would help for methane sibo?
years ago my focus was on sibo and I’ve watched lots of people trying to cure it over years and my conclusion was that nothing of the stuff they tried really helped. I was writing with Many of them too and I really didn’t have the feeling that they made progress in years.

Edit: I did a sibo breath test at a doctor and it was negative. Then I did another not official test from the internet and it was positive for methane sibo. Is this reliable?- I don’t know Man. I got me some rifaximin and took it for I think ten days and it did nothing. I did all kinds of diets. Oregano oil, graleseed ectract and so on and it didn’t help my symptoms.

i also did stool test from the Internet and it said my E. coli bacteria is too high and something else. Reliable ? I don’t know man. I did tests a gastro too and they said it’s alright.
I tried lots of stuff like I said with no improvement. Probiotics of course too. Never did anything positive for me.
 
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Creative Nature

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Low stomach acid causes sibo. Sibo ***** everything up.

Chronic inescapable stress or depression causes low stomach acid.

Have you had a sibo test?

I definitely check the box for chronic, inescapable stress. So it's starting to look like my GI problems may originate in the stomach.

No SIBO test.
 

Sam321

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Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

I hear you, man. I agree about the value of doing labs and not guessing. My doctors don't cooperate, though, and with limited mobility, getting to the lab is a challenge. So I've done few labs -- just a stool test, which I don't think covered h. pylori or candida, and no SIBO breath test.

You suggested that candida could explain some of my symptoms. Which symptoms did you have in mind?

What would help for methane sibo?
years ago my focus was on sibo and I’ve watched lots of people trying to cure it over years and my conclusion was that nothing of the stuff they tried really helped. I was writing with Many of them too and I really didn’t have the feeling that they made progress in years.

Edit: I did a sibo breath test at a doctor and it was negative. Then I did another not official test from the internet and it was positive for methane sibo. Is this reliable?- I don’t know Man. I got me some rifaximin and took it for I think ten days and it did nothing. I did all kinds of diets. Oregano oil, graleseed ectract and so on and it didn’t help my symptoms.

i also did stool test from the Internet and it said my E. coli bacteria is too high and something else. Reliable ? I don’t know man. I did tests a gastro too and they said it’s alright.
I tried lots of stuff like I said with no improvement. Probiotics of course too. Never did anything positive for me.
Rifaximin paired with neomycin was show to increase clinical efficacy from 50% to 80% for methane sibo. Methane sibo is difficult to cure because of the toughness of the bacterial membrane.
 

Sam321

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Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

I hear you, man. I agree about the value of doing labs and not guessing. My doctors don't cooperate, though, and with limited mobility, getting to the lab is a challenge. So I've done few labs -- just a stool test, which I don't think covered h. pylori or candida, and no SIBO breath test.

You suggested that candida could explain some of my symptoms. Which symptoms did you have in mind?

Edit to add: Sorry to hear you're having similar problems.
I feel you dude. I spent a minute feeling like I could barely go to the grocery store. Its truly a hoffific experience and you will def figure out a way to recover from it.

This was my original post.

So I'm not sure if you have insurance or what not, but many hospitals do sibo tests. If you can find a doctor to order you one you could go that route and pay less. Otherwise, I got all mine from genova testing. I can share links if you are interested. Also found out my b vitamins were low. You could prob get the sibo and comprehensive stool test with candida and h pylori add on. For like 600$. Its expensive, but it could save you alot of time and money on supplements and ***t.

One of the cool things is treating normal hydrogen sibo is easier than methane sibo and if you have methane sibo a "round of penecillin" or whatever isn't gonna knock it out.

I'm trying the mushroom Peat thing first before I do the rifax and neomycin. I'll report back.

Really tho bro, I think stress is such a massive cause of gut issues. We can't digest if we are hormonally running from a tiger and I think all of that is our environment and unresolved trauma probably.

Another thing to consider is malabsorption of nutrients with sibo and candida. Candida biofilm can take up real-estate in your intestines and block out absorption and also good bacteria that synthesizes b1 and k and such. Also, sibo can cause stomach issues with h pylori or otherwise as it can up chuck stuff from you small intestine into your stomach and mess things up.

When candida dies off, it releases a ton of toxins and you liver has to filter it out. If you don't have energy to do that (which you prob dont) that can really mess things up. Look up candida symptoms and die off. Shortness of breath, elevated heart rate, blasts of cortisol and adrenaline, brainfog, depression, etc are all symptoms of candida overgrowth.
 

apr

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I have been feeling better this week and thought I would share. Unfortunately I tried several things at once so I don't know which one made the difference....alone or in conjunction with another or all three.

First, I decided to do the carrot salad every day without fail. I would grate 1-2 carrots with coconut oil and white vinegar and salt. Usually ate this around 3p.m. with no food for hours afterward. However right after I would chug 1 scoop of my activated charcoal with 2 drops of camphosal in it. I like to start things very slowly but this might have been enough.

The third thing I did was avoid starch all week. No bread, pasta or rice. Only protein with fruits or very harmless veggies for me which means asparagus, tomato with burrata or green beans.

I did this Monday - Friday and did not have one intestinal panic attack (I had been having daily and continually). On Friday night we went out to dinner with friends and I ate some bread and it was no problem.

Today I did not do salad nor other measures because I will be collecting my stool specimen tomorrow for a GI Map test and didn't want anything to confound the results. Maybe I already killed the critters but we shall see what comes back from lab in two weeks.

Anyway....I know it is too soon to tell if this will have lasting effects.....what actually did the trick....but I am just so happy I have felt normal for the past few days.

Another thing unrelated I wanted to mention, I have been using Magn oil and have gotten strange eye reactions. My eyelids are puffy and my vision a bit blurry and eyes are red and dry. I stopped it yesterday and eyes are somewhat better today. I will keep testing to see if there is a direct cause. I did read hear one other story of a similar reaction to the DMSO. Bummer because I really need that magnesium. (I was putting it on arms and back)
 

apr

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Forgot to mention: I am also trying something someone recommended on another thread....I forget who. But I nibble a tiny piece of Pepcid after each meal. Seems to abort any panicky feeling which might arise from the food just eaten. I break one tablet in half, then nibble on one half just like the poster recommended.
 

Creative Nature

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I feel you dude. I spent a minute feeling like I could barely go to the grocery store. Its truly a hoffific experience and you will def figure out a way to recover from it.

This was my original post.

So I'm not sure if you have insurance or what not, but many hospitals do sibo tests. If you can find a doctor to order you one you could go that route and pay less. Otherwise, I got all mine from genova testing. I can share links if you are interested. Also found out my b vitamins were low. You could prob get the sibo and comprehensive stool test with candida and h pylori add on. For like 600$. Its expensive, but it could save you alot of time and money on supplements and ***t.

One of the cool things is treating normal hydrogen sibo is easier than methane sibo and if you have methane sibo a "round of penecillin" or whatever isn't gonna knock it out.

I'm trying the mushroom Peat thing first before I do the rifax and neomycin. I'll report back.

Really tho bro, I think stress is such a massive cause of gut issues. We can't digest if we are hormonally running from a tiger and I think all of that is our environment and unresolved trauma probably.

Another thing to consider is malabsorption of nutrients with sibo and candida. Candida biofilm can take up real-estate in your intestines and block out absorption and also good bacteria that synthesizes b1 and k and such. Also, sibo can cause stomach issues with h pylori or otherwise as it can up chuck stuff from you small intestine into your stomach and mess things up.

When candida dies off, it releases a ton of toxins and you liver has to filter it out. If you don't have energy to do that (which you prob dont) that can really mess things up. Look up candida symptoms and die off. Shortness of breath, elevated heart rate, blasts of cortisol and adrenaline, brainfog, depression, etc are all symptoms of candida overgrowth.

Thanks for these insights and suggestions. I'll check out your thread.

I haven't found an effective way to manage stress. I've tried several methods that "should" work, but it's hard to persist with them when I don't see any progress.

RP has said hypothyroidism promotes candida infections, and it sounds like an infection is consistent with some of my symptoms, so definitely worth investigating. Thanks.
 

Creative Nature

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I have been feeling better this week and thought I would share. Unfortunately I tried several things at once so I don't know which one made the difference....alone or in conjunction with another or all three.

First, I decided to do the carrot salad every day without fail. I would grate 1-2 carrots with coconut oil and white vinegar and salt. Usually ate this around 3p.m. with no food for hours afterward. However right after I would chug 1 scoop of my activated charcoal with 2 drops of camphosal in it. I like to start things very slowly but this might have been enough.

The third thing I did was avoid starch all week. No bread, pasta or rice. Only protein with fruits or very harmless veggies for me which means asparagus, tomato with burrata or green beans.

I did this Monday - Friday and did not have one intestinal panic attack (I had been having daily and continually). On Friday night we went out to dinner with friends and I ate some bread and it was no problem.

Today I did not do salad nor other measures because I will be collecting my stool specimen tomorrow for a GI Map test and didn't want anything to confound the results. Maybe I already killed the critters but we shall see what comes back from lab in two weeks.

Anyway....I know it is too soon to tell if this will have lasting effects.....what actually did the trick....but I am just so happy I have felt normal for the past few days.

Another thing unrelated I wanted to mention, I have been using Magn oil and have gotten strange eye reactions. My eyelids are puffy and my vision a bit blurry and eyes are red and dry. I stopped it yesterday and eyes are somewhat better today. I will keep testing to see if there is a direct cause. I did read hear one other story of a similar reaction to the DMSO. Bummer because I really need that magnesium. (I was putting it on arms and back)

Great. Glad to hear you're finding solutions. Without raw carrots and starch avoidance, I suspect my GI problems would be much worse.

Like you, I reacted badly to Magnoil -- tension in the chest, anxiety, etc. I get extra magnesium from epsom salt baths, magnesium chloride oil, and Gerolsteiner mineral water.
 

Creative Nature

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Forgot to mention: I am also trying something someone recommended on another thread....I forget who. But I nibble a tiny piece of Pepcid after each meal. Seems to abort any panicky feeling which might arise from the food just eaten. I break one tablet in half, then nibble on one half just like the poster recommended.

Glad to hear it. I take famotidine (generic Pepcid) for my gastritis, and it helps.
 

Creative Nature

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Did you have obvious symptoms with your gastritis? Like pain or discomfort?

Hello, @dfspcc20. How are you?

When I eat something that irritates my stomach, I feel pressure in my head and chest, and sometimes shortness of breath or stomach pain. When the irritation is strong enough, I get terrible chest pain, but as long as I avoid the triggers (oral vitamin E and MCT oil were two of the worst), I don't get much chest pain. Famotidine reduces gastritis symptoms but does not eliminate them, and does not enable me to eat the triggering foods.

Unfortunately, coffee and fruit juice are among the triggers.
 

Sam321

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White button mushrooms boiled for an hour and soaked in coco oil and a little ACV is more powerful than carrots I guess.
 

Creative Nature

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White button mushrooms boiled for an hour and soaked in coco oil and a little ACV is more powerful than carrots I guess.

I like well-cooked white button mushrooms, but they constipate me. Most days, I eat raw carrots with coconut oil in the afternoon and bamboo shoots in the evening.
 

apr

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Glad to hear it. I take famotidine (generic Pepcid) for my gastritis, and it helps.
Just to clarify....I have always taken famotidine for reflux. But I would take one pill. It never touched my anxiety. During all of this trial and error my reflux sort of went away unnoticed ha....but now I take the famotidine in tiny tiny dosages several times a day and it seems to be working better for anxiety that is felt in the stomach after eating.

Maybe try it like that to see?

I realize all of this could be placebo due to just one week of experimenting. But today continue to feel well so I'll take it!
 

Creative Nature

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Just to clarify....I have always taken famotidine for reflux. But I would take one pill. It never touched my anxiety. During all of this trial and error my reflux sort of went away unnoticed ha....but now I take the famotidine in tiny tiny dosages several times a day and it seems to be working better for anxiety that is felt in the stomach after eating.

Maybe try it like that to see?

I realize all of this could be placebo due to just one week of experimenting. But today continue to feel well so I'll take it!

Thanks. I'd like to try this experiment, but I've been in bad shape the last few days and don't want to risk making the gastritis worse right now. May try it when I'm doing a little better.
 

dfspcc20

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Hello, @dfspcc20. How are you?

When I eat something that irritates my stomach, I feel pressure in my head and chest, and sometimes shortness of breath or stomach pain. When the irritation is strong enough, I get terrible chest pain, but as long as I avoid the triggers (oral vitamin E and MCT oil were two of the worst), I don't get much chest pain. Famotidine reduces gastritis symptoms but does not eliminate them, and does not enable me to eat the triggering foods.

Unfortunately, coffee and fruit juice are among the triggers.

I've been pretty good most of the time. Things might have gotten better, or I'm just more accustomed to "the Feels" (as @apr described accurately) and there isn't a fear reaction with them anymore. Still occasionally get the neck, upper chest tension and general feeling of unease, usually in the late afternoon, but knowing it will pass has made it much less of a deal.

Unlike the two of you, though, I've never really had gastrointestinal symptoms with this issue, other than there seemed to be a correlation between getting "the Feels" and having a bowel movement shortly thereafter. No pain, no obvious discomfort, indigestion, constipation, diarrhea, etc. As long as I make sure I'm not driving when I feel it coming on, it makes it so much better. Something about the position of sitting with arms up and driving seems to make it worse, maybe pressure pushing down on organs and/or the vagus nerve, or maybe a vestibular thing.

The possible gastrointestinal symptom I do have has been going on much longer, and is just as vague. Namely, after certain meals, I'll get some "reflux"- that is, I'll need to clear my throat or cough once to get what feels like phlegm loose from deep in my esophagus. Just once and the feeling is gone. And I've had a phantom type pain/tightness/numbness near my left shoulder blade off and on, which chiropractors and massage & physical therapists haven't been able to do much with. I have read that area might be referral-type pain from the stomach (whereas the right side could be liver/gallbladder). Which is why I asked about your gastritis symptoms. But other than that for me, no pain, discomfort, indigestion.

Going back to "the feels"... there might be a correlation there with vitamin B2 for me. I had been experimenting with taking 10-20mg/day (plain riboflavin) by itself a few days a week a couple years ago or so. It made me feel awesome at first, especially when combined with lots of light. But then the Feels started coming on; not directly after taking the B2, but maybe within 24 hours or so afterwards. I didn't make the connection at first since I had such a good experience with it in the beginning. I did see something from Chris Masterjohn recently mentioning it might increase oxidation products too much and/or create overcompensations or shift other B vitamins down other pathways in certain circumstances. So I've stayed away from B2 by itself for a couple weeks now and haven't had any recurrences. But I've said that before about other things, so as always, we'll see...
 

Creative Nature

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I've been pretty good most of the time. Things might have gotten better, or I'm just more accustomed to "the Feels" (as @apr described accurately) and there isn't a fear reaction with them anymore. Still occasionally get the neck, upper chest tension and general feeling of unease, usually in the late afternoon, but knowing it will pass has made it much less of a deal.

Unlike the two of you, though, I've never really had gastrointestinal symptoms with this issue, other than there seemed to be a correlation between getting "the Feels" and having a bowel movement shortly thereafter. No pain, no obvious discomfort, indigestion, constipation, diarrhea, etc. As long as I make sure I'm not driving when I feel it coming on, it makes it so much better. Something about the position of sitting with arms up and driving seems to make it worse, maybe pressure pushing down on organs and/or the vagus nerve, or maybe a vestibular thing.

The possible gastrointestinal symptom I do have has been going on much longer, and is just as vague. Namely, after certain meals, I'll get some "reflux"- that is, I'll need to clear my throat or cough once to get what feels like phlegm loose from deep in my esophagus. Just once and the feeling is gone. And I've had a phantom type pain/tightness/numbness near my left shoulder blade off and on, which chiropractors and massage & physical therapists haven't been able to do much with. I have read that area might be referral-type pain from the stomach (whereas the right side could be liver/gallbladder). Which is why I asked about your gastritis symptoms. But other than that for me, no pain, discomfort, indigestion.

Going back to "the feels"... there might be a correlation there with vitamin B2 for me. I had been experimenting with taking 10-20mg/day (plain riboflavin) by itself a few days a week a couple years ago or so. It made me feel awesome at first, especially when combined with lots of light. But then the Feels started coming on; not directly after taking the B2, but maybe within 24 hours or so afterwards. I didn't make the connection at first since I had such a good experience with it in the beginning. I did see something from Chris Masterjohn recently mentioning it might increase oxidation products too much and/or create overcompensations or shift other B vitamins down other pathways in certain circumstances. So I've stayed away from B2 by itself for a couple weeks now and haven't had any recurrences. But I've said that before about other things, so as always, we'll see...

Thanks for the update, @dfspcc20.

Although my gastritis does sometimes cause stomach pain, it much more often causes "referred" pain in my chest -- mostly on the left side, which, as you point out, can reflect stomach problems. Only after months of observing patterns and hearing about your experiences with vitamin E and MCT oil did I become fairly confident that the chest pains I got shortly after ingesting certain foods and supplements were really due to stomach irritation and not something else. (My endotoxin and gastritis symptoms may well arise from the same underlying cause, and sometimes occur together, but generally seem to have different triggers.) So what I think of as gastritis symptoms may not be that far removed from what you're experiencing.

I also sometimes experience the odd sensation you mention -- needing to clear phlegm from somewhere deep in the chest. For me, the sensation often coincides with gastritis, and B1 or other things that increase CO2 seem to get rid of it.

I supplement small amounts of B2 via Georgi's Energin B complex (which I only use topically). Haven't noticed any bad reactions to it, but you were right about vitamin E and MCT oil, so I'll have to do some experiments.

Thanks again for contributing to this thread. It's helpful to compare notes.
 

Sam321

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Rifaximin paired with neomycin was show to increase clinical efficacy from 50% to 80% for methane sibo. Methane sibo is difficult to cure because of the toughness of the bacterial membrane.
Just wanted to comment on this statement. I just did a 2 week course of this and it didn't work at all. breath test metrics stayed the same on second test.
I basically found out my stomach acid is extremely low, I am on 5 hcl betaine pills and I dont feel any warming in my gut yet.

Anyone solve for methane based sibo yet?
 
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