Intense Stress During Passage Of Food Through Large Intestine

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Sep 5, 2016
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300
Meet My Nemesis: My Intestine
For over a year, on and off, I've had stress reactions to the passage of food through my large intestine. Pulse and blood pressure jump, I get sensations of pressure in my head and chest, and sometimes I get short of breath. Often I'll have a bowel movement within 1-3 hours after the stress reaction starts. Lately, these episodes have become much more intense and debilitating. I need to stop them before I get entangled in the medical system again.


Possible Clues
I've observed the following patterns...

On days when not much food passes through my intestine (e.g. because I wasn't able to eat much the previous day or because I had multiple, substantial bowel movements in the morning) I'm generally unstressed and in good spirits. Days when lots of material passes through the intestine are brutal.

Leaning forward in my chair for ~10 minutes often stops the passage of food through the intestine, and with it, the GI distress.

In the past, taking too much of a supplement (e.g. glycine or B1) has sometimes triggered these stress reactions to intestinal transit. Lowering the dose of the offending supplement typically fixed the problem within a few days. Lately, I have been trying to cut back on meds/supplements where possible, but instead of fading away, the GI distress is getting even worse.

Trying to lower the bacterial population in my intestine with daily carrots, mushrooms, charcoal (2-3 tbsps, with coconut oil, every 4-5 days), penicillin (up to 125 mg 2X/day), B2 (25 mg/day), etc. has not seemed to help so far.

Trying to block the effects of endotoxin via the TLR4 receptor using cyproheptadine (up to 11 mg/day), naltrexone (10 mg/day for three days consecutively), and vitamins B2 (25 mg/day) and D (up to 10k IU/day for a few weeks) has not helped so far. (My vitamin D level was 41 late last year and has likely increased significantly.)

Inspired by @charlie's posts on B3's benefits for people with IBS, I've experimented extensively with niacinamide, taking up to almost 3 g/day in divided doses. Niacinamide has been good for mood and energy, but so far it hasn't done much to reduce GI distress.

Low doses of oral lidocaine (25-50 mg 1-2X/day) don't seem to be reducing intestinal inflammation.

I caught some sort of respiratory infection at the end of March. I've mostly been able to control the symptoms with vitamins B1 and D and methylene blue, but at times, it seems like the infection is raising my blood pressure. I wonder if the infection could also be inflaming my GI and exacerbating the stress reactions to intestinal transit.


My Background
As discussed in an earlier thread (B Complex Deficiency, Sympathetic Nervous Dysregulation, & Starvation), I've been dealing for over two years with a B complex deficiency, an out-of-control sympathetic NS, and difficulty eating. Thanks in part to helpful advice from this forum, I've made a lot of progress in the last several months. I'm able to tolerate more red light and movement. I still eat fewer calories and less protein than are probably optimal for me, but I can eat way more of both than I could when I wrote the post above, and as a result, my energy, mobility, and mood have all improved.

My diet is mostly fruit, fruit juice, cheese, beef and beef liver, shellfish (including oysters), gelatin, eggs, coconut oil, carrots, and mushrooms. High carb, moderate fat. Liquids are no problem for me. I love starch but my GI doesn't, so I avoid it. I take vitamins D, E, B1, and B3, IdeaLabs' Energin B complex, cyproheptadine, clonidine, methylene blue, and small amounts of aspirin.


Questions
Any ideas about what might be causing these intense reactions to intestinal transit? Could whatever caused the respiratory infection also be making the GI distress worse?

Anyone have similar experiences?

What else should I try to lower intestinal inflammation and permeability and reduce the severity of these reactions?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 

Creative Nature

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My original post was long, so here's a TL/DR version: I often get ridiculously intense stress reactions when food passes through my intestine. I can feel the intestine moving when these reactions occur, and sometimes I'll have a bowel movement during the reaction. The worst symptoms are chest pain, big increases in blood pressure, shortness of breath, and feelings of extreme tension throughout my body. Perhaps something is causing severe intestinal inflammation or permeability, so that the intestine is leaking endotoxin or stress hormones when food passes through.

Any ideas will be welcome. Even if you're not sure what's going on with me, sometimes discussion opens up unanticipated possibilities...
 
Last edited:

Creative Nature

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Ray Peat often points out that supplements and meds can irritate the intestine, so I've been experimenting with cutting back on some of mine, including glycine, B1, and B3. I also stopped penicillin, which I had been taking off and on.

For a few days, it seemed like the reactions were becoming slightly less severe. Then, this a.m., I got one of the worst stress reactions I've experienced. So I'm not sure that the intestinal inflammation/permeability is coming from a supplement.

I also wonder if some kind of GI infection could be causing my intestine to leak. Ray Peat has noted that respiratory infections can start in the gut, and I had a respiratory infection recently. Also, in late December, I accidentally ate a piece of food that had been sitting in the fridge too long, and had cold-like symptoms off and on for a few months thereafter. So maybe some critter is rampaging through my intestine...
 

Creative Nature

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I've now completely dropped penicillin, magnesium (ran out of magnesium glycinate so was using low doses of diluted milk of magnesia), allithiamine (love it, but it has nasty excipients), and glycine (has irritated my intestine in the past). I've also cut back on thiamine HCl (love it, but in high doses it has irritated my intestine in the past) and niacinamide. I dropped Energin, which I had been taking orally, then reintroduced it topically, and will likely drop it again.

These changes have definitely helped (with a lag), but the reactions to passage of material through the intestine are still very intense, so it seems like the problem is more than just irritation caused by supplements.

I'll keep updating this thread in case anyone else is experiencing similar problems.
 

X3CyO

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Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
459
Meet My Nemesis: My Intestine
For over a year, on and off, I've had stress reactions to the passage of food through my large intestine. Pulse and blood pressure jump, I get sensations of pressure in my head and chest, and sometimes I get short of breath. Often I'll have a bowel movement within 1-3 hours after the stress reaction starts. Lately, these episodes have become much more intense and debilitating. I need to stop them before I get entangled in the medical system again.


Possible Clues
I've observed the following patterns...

On days when not much food passes through my intestine (e.g. because I wasn't able to eat much the previous day or because I had multiple, substantial bowel movements in the morning) I'm generally unstressed and in good spirits. Days when lots of material passes through the intestine are brutal.

Leaning forward in my chair for ~10 minutes often stops the passage of food through the intestine, and with it, the GI distress.

In the past, taking too much of a supplement (e.g. glycine or B1) has sometimes triggered these stress reactions to intestinal transit. Lowering the dose of the offending supplement typically fixed the problem within a few days. Lately, I have been trying to cut back on meds/supplements where possible, but instead of fading away, the GI distress is getting even worse.

Trying to lower the bacterial population in my intestine with daily carrots, mushrooms, charcoal (2-3 tbsps, with coconut oil, every 4-5 days), penicillin (up to 125 mg 2X/day), B2 (25 mg/day), etc. has not seemed to help so far.

Trying to block the effects of endotoxin via the TLR4 receptor using cyproheptadine (up to 11 mg/day), naltrexone (10 mg/day for three days consecutively), and vitamins B2 (25 mg/day) and D (up to 10k IU/day for a few weeks) has not helped so far. (My vitamin D level was 41 late last year and has likely increased significantly.)

Inspired by @charlie's posts on B3's benefits for people with IBS, I've experimented extensively with niacinamide, taking up to almost 3 g/day in divided doses. Niacinamide has been good for mood and energy, but so far it hasn't done much to reduce GI distress.

Low doses of oral lidocaine (25-50 mg 1-2X/day) don't seem to be reducing intestinal inflammation.

I caught some sort of respiratory infection at the end of March. I've mostly been able to control the symptoms with vitamins B1 and D and methylene blue, but at times, it seems like the infection is raising my blood pressure. I wonder if the infection could also be inflaming my GI and exacerbating the stress reactions to intestinal transit.


My Background
As discussed in an earlier thread (B Complex Deficiency, Sympathetic Nervous Dysregulation, & Starvation), I've been dealing for over two years with a B complex deficiency, an out-of-control sympathetic NS, and difficulty eating. Thanks in part to helpful advice from this forum, I've made a lot of progress in the last several months. I'm able to tolerate more red light and movement. I still eat fewer calories and less protein than are probably optimal for me, but I can eat way more of both than I could when I wrote the post above, and as a result, my energy, mobility, and mood have all improved.

My diet is mostly fruit, fruit juice, cheese, beef and beef liver, shellfish (including oysters), gelatin, eggs, coconut oil, carrots, and mushrooms. High carb, moderate fat. Liquids are no problem for me. I love starch but my GI doesn't, so I avoid it. I take vitamins D, E, B1, and B3, IdeaLabs' Energin B complex, cyproheptadine, clonidine, methylene blue, and small amounts of aspirin.


Questions
Any ideas about what might be causing these intense reactions to intestinal transit? Could whatever caused the respiratory infection also be making the GI distress worse?

Anyone have similar experiences?

What else should I try to lower intestinal inflammation and permeability and reduce the severity of these reactions?

Thanks in advance for your help.

I have a similar story, but slightly less severe from drinking calcium hydroxide in orange juice. Stupid. Burnt my insides up.

I tried a lot of what you have too.


Gelatin was all that could fix it for me other than avoiding fibrous foods and only consuming starches that were gelatinized, fresh, and not allowed to retrograde (like pressure cooked sweet potatoes); never had problem with small portions of pre-washed, fresh rice. Cutting a lot of the sugar back may help too until you get your gut back in check so it digests properly easier to avoid micronutrient deficiencies temporarily.

I used to add gelatin to all kinds of broths, and even if it wasn't cooked I found it worked well. I ate around 1/4 a cup a day if not more some days.

Ive also added table spoons to mini gatorades, mixed and chugged them down. helps to have a small funnel.

did that maybe for 2 weeks, and my mental fog went away from normal foods and greens. Activated charcoal personally triggered it hard for me; felt like gravel rubbing on a scrape in my intestine.. Just intense fog. Couldn't get anything done.

I also stopped taking a lot of peat supplements from then on too; k2, aspirin, cypro; and also multivitamins/d3, and A. Everything does have its place though.

Prepackaged ramen to this day also gives me a different kind of brain fog; I almost don't even notice it, but my production and ability to focus always drops. I think its the retrograded starch.

Hope you figure things out.
 
Last edited:

Markus

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Aug 28, 2018
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It could be related to the activation of serotonin receptors (specifically 5HTR2A). I've been dealing with similar issues and have been diagnosed with a Klebsiella infection, which can also cause respiratory problems.

Does your symptoms worsen when eating starch? If the starch reaches the large intestine it can increase endotoxin and growth of Klebsiella species.
 

Andman

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Aug 1, 2017
Messages
588
Have you taken your temps/pulse recently?
You seem to have all the bases covered yet nothing works thats terrible :(

A few things i havent seen mentioned but could be worth a try:cascara, colonics/enemas (never tried myself but some people swear by them), red light on the belly where it hurts, bag breathing /baking soda, combining an antibiotic with a litte bit of charcoal to have it actually reach the colon (currently trying this, as described in the camphosal thread)
 

rei

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Intermittent coffee fasting for a couple weeks working up to 18 hour window. Then a few longer fasts over a month or so. There is nothing that rejuvenates and heals the digestive system like giving it a rest. Coffee enema can be a good start to the fast, the beneficial metabolic changes start faster that way, and if you have endotoxin problems it gives immediate relief even when not fasting.
 

Wagner83

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Intermittent coffee fasting for a couple weeks working up to 18 hour window. Then a few longer fasts over a month or so. There is nothing that rejuvenates and heals the digestive system like giving it a rest. Coffee enema can be a good start to the fast, the beneficial metabolic changes start faster that way, and if you have endotoxin problems it gives immediate relief even when not fasting.
So, not eating during 18 hours and drinking coffee during that window ?
Do you find it mandatory to stuff yourself with enough calories in the eating window to avoid short term benefits leading long term negative effects ?

This is somewhat related :

 

rei

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Important to eat for the whole eating window, quality food, at a slow pace, until full but not stuffed. After this when my metabolism resumed and i became able to easily utilize sugar i added 1dl whole milk, 1 dark chocolate square and a teaspoon of honey to every coffee. This is the kind of "fasting" also peat recommends. I don't know if you can immediately start with such, at least it would make it much easier and less stressful, but maybe also not as medicinal?
 

thomas00

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Nov 14, 2016
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What else should I try to lower intestinal inflammation and permeability and reduce the severity of these reactions?

Are these your only symptoms? What's the rest of your health like?

The infection seems like too much of a coincidence. Have you considered trying another antibiotic like minocycline or amoxicillin?
 

thomas00

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Intermittent coffee fasting for a couple weeks working up to 18 hour window. Then a few longer fasts over a month or so. There is nothing that rejuvenates and heals the digestive system like giving it a rest. Coffee enema can be a good start to the fast, the beneficial metabolic changes start faster that way, and if you have endotoxin problems it gives immediate relief even when not fasting.

I take it this involves only drinking coffee? If so, that's nuts.

OJ and milk can achieve the same bowel rest and bacterial reduction without screwing up your metabolism in the process.
 

GreekDemiGod

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For me, IF does nothing for digestive benefits. I'd have to fast 2-3 days to notice anything.
If you feel like IF rejuvenates your digestion, you must have superficial / light problems. Might as well do the carrot salad daily.
 

Creative Nature

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I have a similar story, but slightly less severe from drinking calcium hydroxide in orange juice. Stupid. Burnt my insides up.

I tried a lot of what you have too.


Gelatin was all that could fix it for me other than avoiding fibrous foods and only consuming starches that were gelatinized, fresh, and not allowed to retrograde (like pressure cooked sweet potatoes); never had problem with small portions of pre-washed, fresh rice. Cutting a lot of the sugar back may help too until you get your gut back in check so it digests properly easier to avoid micronutrient deficiencies temporarily.

I used to add gelatin to all kinds of broths, and even if it wasn't cooked I found it worked well. I ate around 1/4 a cup a day if not more some days.

Ive also added table spoons to mini gatorades, mixed and chugged them down. helps to have a small funnel.

did that maybe for 2 weeks, and my mental fog went away from normal foods and greens. Activated charcoal personally triggered it hard for me; felt like gravel rubbing on a scrape in my intestine.. Just intense fog. Couldn't get anything done.

I also stopped taking a lot of peat supplements from then on too; k2, aspirin, cypro; and also multivitamins/d3, and A. Everything does have its place though.

Prepackaged ramen to this day also gives me a different kind of brain fog; I almost don't even notice it, but my production and ability to focus always drops. I think its the retrograded starch.

Hope you figure things out.

Thanks very much for sharing your experiences and tips, @X3CyO. I eat gelatin regularly, but much less than you did during your recovery. I'll try increasing my intake. I've had good experiences with gelatin and glycine in the past (though the latter eventually irritated my GI tract), so it's plausible that increased gelatin could make a big difference.
 

Creative Nature

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It could be related to the activation of serotonin receptors (specifically 5HTR2A). I've been dealing with similar issues and have been diagnosed with a Klebsiella infection, which can also cause respiratory problems.

Does your symptoms worsen when eating starch? If the starch reaches the large intestine it can increase endotoxin and growth of Klebsiella species.

Thank you, @Markus. I'll see what information I can find on 5HTR2A, but if you have any thoughts about how activation of 5HTR2A might be involved in my intestinal troubles, I'd be glad to hear them. Starch tends to constipate me or give me flu-like symptoms, so I haven't eaten much of it in years. I handle fruit and fruit juice well.

None of the anti-microbials (carrot, mushrooms, tetracycline, penicillin, flowers of sulfur, MCT oil, methylene blue, charcoal, etc.), serotonin antagonists, or TLR4 blockers I've tried has helped much with this problem, as far as I can tell. It's still possible, though, that I have a gut infection and have just taken the wrong antibiotics (or wrong doses) for the job, so I'll keep experimenting.
 

Creative Nature

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Have you taken your temps/pulse recently?
You seem to have all the bases covered yet nothing works thats terrible :(

A few things i havent seen mentioned but could be worth a try:cascara, colonics/enemas (never tried myself but some people swear by them), red light on the belly where it hurts, bag breathing /baking soda, combining an antibiotic with a litte bit of charcoal to have it actually reach the colon (currently trying this, as described in the camphosal thread)

Thank you for your tips, @Andman. I've tried some of them, but all are worthwhile experiments.

I'm hypothyroid, but slowly improving. Early a.m. temps range from around 97.5 to low 98s, and pulses from mid- to high 50s. When a.m. temp and pulse are higher, it's most often because of stress hormones. But over time, niacinamide and other B vitamins together with low doses of aspirin have increased my energy significantly.

For a month or so (before the latest round of intestinal problems), I had been shining a 250W BR40 heat lamp on my chest and abdomen. I'm not sure whether the red light calmed my GI, but it definitely helped in other ways, so I will try it again. Thanks much for this idea.

Bag breathing and (even more so) baking soda can significantly reduce the severity of my adrenergic episodes, whatever the cause. They're a great help, but when my intestine is in really bad shape, they're generally not enough.

I almost always take antibiotics with raw carrot. The rationale is the same as for Georgi's suggestion to take CamphoSal with charcoal. But next time I use an antibiotic, I'll try combining it with charcoal in place of the carrot and see if I notice a difference.
 
D

danishispsychic

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2 to THREE TABLESPOONS of charcoal with coconut oil????? omg you are creating ROCKS in your intestine. that is what you are dealing with.
 

Creative Nature

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@rei, @Wagner83, @thomas00, and @GreekDemiGod:

Thanks for your thoughts on fasting.

The last time I intentionally fasted was many years ago when I was trying Paul Jaminet's diet. The results were not good.

When my adrenergic symptoms are very bad, I'm often unable to eat much protein, and sometimes, after a few days of being unable to eat much, my intestine calms down somewhat for a day or two. So if other remedies don't work out, I'd be open to trying a few days of fruit juice, mineral water, and a safe protein (assuming I can find one that agrees with my intestine).

It's interesting that my intestine seems much more sensitive to protein than anything else...
 

Creative Nature

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Are these your only symptoms? What's the rest of your health like?

I get bad adrenergic reactions (big increases in blood pressure, shortness of breath, sometimes chest pain or a racing pulse, and a variety of other fun symptoms) in response to mild physical stresses, and these reactions sometimes make eating impossible...BUT the reactions became milder and more manageable when I figured out last spring that a B complex deficiency was driving them. I've made significant progress since then, thanks in part to this forum. At this point, passage of food through the intestine is the only stressor that triggers my adrenergic symptoms badly, and I would not be surprised if this intestinal distress is the last big remaining obstacle to a full recovery.

If you're curious, feel free to ask more questions or read more about my story in the following thread:

B Complex Deficiency, Sympathetic Nervous Dysregulation, & Starvation

The infection seems like too much of a coincidence. Have you considered trying another antibiotic like minocycline or amoxicillin?

I don't want to declare victory prematurely, but I haven't seen any signs of the respiratory infection in over a week -- though the same pathogen could be lurking in my gut. I've tried tetracycline, penicillin, and IdeaLabs' CamphoSal, and none has done much to calm my intestine, so I'm not sure the problem is bacterial in origin. But I'll keep experimenting with antibiotics.
 
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