Topical T3 Testicular Application - Estrogen!

[Heroico]

Haidut, two thoughts:

1) I'm not confident that very high local concentrations of DHEA and pregnenolone in the testes wouldn't overwhelm any aromatase inhibition. I know RP took huge doses of pregnenolone systemically and didn't get estrogenic effects, or for that matter progesterone gonadal effects, but likely he may have been taking huge doses of A etc. at that time. ?

2) I do feel that T3 and K2 on the testes is a great idea, and possibly A and D, and possibly by rectum. Many years ago I emailed RP about possibly using progesterone suppositories for men with high PSA undergoing "watchful waiting" and he pointed out he usually prefers systemic dosing but in this case he liked the idea.

2) Perhaps on the same topic since we're discussing topical gland treatment- I have just tried retinyl palmitate 20K units on my thyroid. The gland puffed up, my temp went up from 97.5 to 99.0 within a few hours, and I'm generally feeling hyperdynamic. It's a big effect. This seems like a very promising avenue to explore. I'm going to continue with it awhile. I'm tempted to suggest it to others. What do you think?

 

[skycop00]

If there is enough vitamin K or androsterone used with the Pansterone then the estrogen synthesis should drop noticeably. Adding T3 or using it instead of androsterone may also help as T3 is a bona fide aromatase inhibitor.

Been using Tyromix and now TyroMax with Pansterone to scrotum for well over a year. I'm on TRT and zero testicular shrinkage! Great results overall. Going to add in some K next.

 

[Rickyman]

Been using Tyromix and now TyroMax with Pansterone to scrotum for well over a year. I'm on TRT and zero testicular shrinkage! Great results overall. Going to add in some K next.

T3 alone on the scrotum isn't helping increase T levels?

 

[skycop00]

T3 alone on the scrotum isn't helping increase T levels?

I have been on TRT for 20+ years so not changing anytime soon..lol

 

[Rickyman]

I have been on TRT for 20+ years so not changing anytime soon..lol

Holy moly! My test came back low. So T is something you need to take for a long time? I'm trying to learn everything I can on this subject more so than other topics on this forum.

I'm trying to get my hands on the oral T non esters that haidut spoke of

 

[Heroico]

If there is enough vitamin K or androsterone used with the Pansterone then the estrogen synthesis should drop noticeably. Adding T3 or using it instead of androsterone may also help as T3 is a bona fide aromatase inhibitor.

I think the steroids reduced the thyroid binding sites and you were having plain and simple adjustment hyperthyroidism not estrogen. The rapidity suggests displacement from binding to me.
Btw why not put vitamin a topically on the thyroid? I’m very impressed with this

 

[methylenewhite]

I have just tried retinyl palmitate 20K units on my thyroid.

What solvent do you use? Elaborate please, I'm very interested in.

 

[skycop00]

Holy moly! My test came back low. So T is something you need to take for a long time? I'm trying to learn everything I can on this subject more so than other topics on this forum.

I'm trying to get my hands on the oral T non esters that haidut spoke of

Holy moly! My test came back low. So T is something you need to take for a long time? I'm trying to learn everything I can on this subject more so than other topics on this forum.

I'm trying to get my hands on the oral T non esters that haidut spoke of

I added a drop of K to the tyromix and 2 drops of pansterone scrotally yesterday and I was hyper for sure. Active but out of character hyped up. Going to cut dose and dial in for best outcome.

 

[Heroico]

I've used isopropyl and DMSO and both. I open a capsule and mix it with something and apply. It smells a little fishy for awhile. I don't think it's a problem being absorbed by the feel of it, I've done it without a solvent. I'm very interested in what others find with this- I would expect colloid unloading and increased T4/T3 conversion and I think I'm very much experiencing this.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Haidut, two thoughts:

1) I'm not confident that very high local concentrations of DHEA and pregnenolone in the testes wouldn't overwhelm any aromatase inhibition. I know RP took huge doses of pregnenolone systemically and didn't get estrogenic effects, or for that matter progesterone gonadal effects, but likely he may have been taking huge doses of A etc. at that time. ?

2) I do feel that T3 and K2 on the testes is a great idea, and possibly A and D, and possibly by rectum. Many years ago I emailed RP about possibly using progesterone suppositories for men with high PSA undergoing "watchful waiting" and he pointed out he usually prefers systemic dosing but in this case he liked the idea.

2) Perhaps on the same topic since we're discussing topical gland treatment- I have just tried retinyl palmitate 20K units on my thyroid. The gland puffed up, my temp went up from 97.5 to 99.0 within a few hours, and I'm generally feeling hyperdynamic. It's a big effect. This seems like a very promising avenue to explore. I'm going to continue with it awhile. I'm tempted to suggest it to others. What do you think?

I do feel that T3 and K2 on the testes is a great idea, and possibly A and D, and possibly by rectum.

Interesting!T3 on testes seems unphysiologic,what would the rationale be,i wonder?

The gland puffed up, my temp went up from 97.5 to 99.0 within a few hours

You should make contact to RP immediately and ask for advice,hope a member can give you his e-mail,i did not make contact with him myself yet,and visit a physician for Bloodwork and imaging techniques,changes in morphology are always imminent danger!

 

[methylenewhite]

I've used isopropyl and DMSO and both. I open a capsule and mix it with something and apply. It smells a little fishy for awhile. I don't think it's a problem being absorbed by the feel of it, I've done it without a solvent. I'm very interested in what others find with this- I would expect colloid unloading and increased T4/T3 conversion and I think I'm very much experiencing this.

I can try with isopropyl and coconut oil. DMSO is hard to get here.

 

[Heroico]

I am a physician. (smile)
Thanks for your concern, Tristan!
BTW I feel terrific. Temp 98.6 or higher in AM for the first time. Looking forward to any other experiences with topical A on thyroid...

 

[methylenewhite]

I am a physician. (smile)
Thanks for your concern, Tristan!
BTW I feel terrific. Temp 98.6 or higher in AM for the first time. Looking forward to any other experiences with topical A on thyroid...

Will do today. I have retinol acetate powder and veterinary retinol palmitate dissolved in corn oil. Will try first acetate dissolved in isopropyl.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

@methylenewhite RP isnt a fan of topicals on glands,mybe try something like T3 mono or combinations first.He is concerned about all solvents,fats are also structural Make-Up of the Thyroidea,they come in contact with the solvent,too.Maybe Retinol oral,high dose?Never heard of that before,but not sure.

 

[Heroico]

Thanks, Tristsan. Do you have a reference for RP there?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Thanks, Tristsan. Do you have a reference for RP there?

It is contained in the premises of this forum,i read it more than once,maybe it was email-exchange a member posted here.

 

[sladerunner69]

There's a thread on applying topical t3 on scrotum where what happens to T3 in the skin is discussed, the discussion was continued in the ray peat mail advice depository comments thread. From the little I understand it's much more complicated than too much t3 = high estrogens .

The common bodybuilding widsom is that thyroid hormone increases estrogen.

 

[Heroico]

Tristan and methylene white: in a stunning display of arrogance and lack of knowledge (being a physician, of course!) I think I was dismissive of your doubts expressed on topical A on thyroid... but there is some literature on toxicity of retinol applied to thyrocytes in culture:
J Mol Med (Berl). 1999 Jan;77(1):189-92.
Effects of retinol on follicular porcine thyrocytes in culture.
Fröhlich E1, Wahl R.
Author information

Abstract
Retinoids influence proliferation and differentiation in transformed thyroid cell lines. Retinoids are able to damage cells by destabilizing lysosomal membranes and induce apoptosis in certain cell lines. In normal thyrocytes retinol modulates iodine metabolism. At concentrations higher than 50x10(-6) M retinoids are cytotoxic for normal (not transformed) thyroid cells. The mechanism of this cytotoxicity is unknown. We studied the effect of 7-80x10(-6) M retinol on porcine follicular thyrocytes in culture. In order to differentiate between membrane-destabilizing effects and apoptosis we investigated cultures after incubation with retinol by light- and electron-microscopy and by labeling of potential nicks in the DNA helix by terminal deoxynucleotidyltransferase-dUTP mediated DNA nick end labeling. We conclude that the observed cytotoxicity is caused mainly by the induction of apoptosis.
-------

As an example of comparative human serum levels,

Nutrients. 2018 Apr; 10(4): 510.
Published online 2018 Apr 19. doi: 10.3390/nu10040510
PMCID: PMC5946295
PMID: 29671819
Dose-Response Relationship between Serum Retinol Levels and Survival in Patients with Colorectal Cancer: Results from the DACHS Study
Haifa Maalmi,1,2,3 Viola Walter,1 Lina Jansen,1 Robert W. Owen,4 Alexis Ulrich,5 Ben Schöttker,1,2 Jenny Chang-Claude,6 Michael Hoffmeister,1 and Hermann Brenner1,2,4,7,*
Author information Article notes Copyright and License information Disclaimer
This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.

Associated Data
Supplementary Materials
Go to:
Abstract
Current knowledge on the role of retinol in the prognosis of patients with colorectal cancer (CRC) is very limited. We investigated the association of serum retinol levels with survival outcomes in a large cohort of 2908 CRC patients from Germany. Retinol concentrations were determined in serum collected shortly after diagnosis by mass spectrometry. Associations between serum retinol levels and survival outcomes were assessed using multivariable Cox regression and dose-response analyses. The joint association of serum retinol and serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 (25(OH)D3) with survival outcomes was also examined. During a median follow-up of 4.8 years, 787 deaths occurred, 573 of which were due to CRC. Dose-response curves showed an inverse relationship between serum retinol levels and survival endpoints in the range of <2.4 µmol/L, but no associations at higher levels. Low (<1.2 µmol/L) versus high (≥2.4 µmol/L) serum retinol levels were associated with poorer overall survival (Hazard ratio (HR) = 1.46, 95% confidence interval (CI) = 1.19–1.78, P-trend = 0.0003) and CRC-specific survival (HR = 1.69, 95% CI = 1.33–2.15, P-trend < 0.0001). Joint presence of low serum retinol (<1.2 µmol/L) and low 25(OH)D3 (<30 nmol/L) was associated with a particularly strong decrease in overall and CRC-specific survival. Low serum retinol levels were identified as a predictor of poor survival in CRC patients, in particular when co-occurring with low serum concentrations of 25(OH)D3
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From a lab reference for normals: (does anyone understand the units M in the first paper and know how to convert? )


Age

Range (μg/dL)

0 to 30 d

Not established

1 m to 5 y

14.4 − 42.6

6 to 11 y

18.2 − 45.7

12 to 19 y

18.8 − 54.9

20 to 39 y

18.9 – 57.3

40 to 59 y

20.1− 62.0

>59 y

22.0 − 69.5

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It is a long way from toxicity in thyrocyte culture and toxicity from serum for a thyroid gland with structure intact, to topical application, and the carrier may be significant. So, lots of unknowns... but the method of thyroid autmentation is so cheap and simple that I still think a careful trial with monitoring might be useful. Thoughts?

 

[SonOfEurope]

To think I almost did that once... Scary.

 

[ddjd]

@haidut you said 1-2mcg per dose of T3 on testicles, for optimal stimulation of stAR does it need to be applied one time a day or more?
I have a T3 products dissolved in ethanol and glycerin and I don’t feel nothing from 2mcg do you think ethanol is enough as a carrier for absorption?

Hey bro, I thought t3 suppresses StAR? I'm sure I saw a study on it. I'll look for it now