Topical T3 Testicular Application - Estrogen!

[DaveFoster]

If there is enough vitamin K or androsterone used with the Pansterone then the estrogen synthesis should drop noticeably. Adding T3 or using it instead of androsterone may also help as T3 is a bona fide aromatase inhibitor.

If T3 inhibits aromtase, then is the increase in SHBG and estrogenic symptoms due to the T4 or a perceived excess of T3 which signals the body to upregulate SHBG and aromatase?

Day 2: Took 1 mcg T3, 2 mcg T4

Nipples still sensitive, but progesterone took that away, along with all the other supplements. Anxiety is pretty high today.

 

[haidut]

If T3 inhibits aromtase, then is the increase in SHBG and estrogenic symptoms due to the T4 or a perceived excess of T3 which signals the body to upregulate SHBG and aromatase?

Day 2: Took 1 mcg T3, 2 mcg T4

Nipples still sensitive, but progesterone took that away, along with all the other supplements. Anxiety is pretty high today.

That I don't know but the aromatase inhibiting effect of T3 are well-known.
Effect of thyroid hormone on CYP19 expression in ovarian granulosa cells from gonadotropin-treated immature rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Aromatase expression in prepuberal Sertoli cells: effect of thyroid hormone. - PubMed - NCBI
Is thyroid hormone a modulator of estrogen receptor in porcine follicular cells? - PubMed - NCBI
Thyroid hormone effects on mouse oocyte maturation and granulosa cell aromatase activity. - PubMed - NCBI
Thyroid hormone inhibits aromatase activity in porcine thecal cells cultured alone and in coculture with granulosa cells. - PubMed - NCBI
Thyroid hormone modulates androgen and oestrogen receptor content in the Sertoli cells of peripubertal rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Tri-iodothyronine directly affects rat Sertoli cell proliferation and differentiation. - PubMed - NCBI
Inhibition of aromatase activity in rat Sertoli cells by thyroid hormone. - PubMed - NCBI
Inhibition of human placental microsomal aromatase by thyroid hormone and iodothyronine derivatives. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[DaveFoster]

@haidut

Interesting; maybe rT3 conversion is a problem then.

Day 3: Blood pressure of 157/70. Pulse of 95, temp of 99.3. Stopped all thyroid. Mirtazapine apparently can either raise or lower BP, so I might go to the ER and get a short-term benzo.

 

[chispas]

I started getting similar weird puffy nipple/itching. Never experienced this before in my life so I assume it has been a self-inflicted symptom from my experimentation with Pansterone, et al. I think Pansterone is the culprit. Haidut has explained a possible reason in another thread:

In lower concentrations pregnenolone increases synthesis of both androgens and progesterone. In higher concentrations, it inhibits androgen synthesis but continues to stimulate progesterone synthesis. If the progesterone synthesis pathway becomes too dominant (as was seen with high dose pregnenolone in humans), that can lead to the anti-androgenic side effects associated with progesterone.

 

[MOUNTAINBEAR]

With this blend applied on the scrotum: Pansterone 8drops/ Androsterone 2 to 4 drops/ Kuinone 4 drops/ Thyromax 8drops (morning and evening)
the results are: increased strength output when doing weight exercises and increased sensitivity/arousal (can orgasm twice to three time as much as without applying the blend)

 

[DaveFoster]

I started getting similar weird puffy nipple/itching. Never experienced this before in my life so I assume it has been a self-inflicted symptom from my experimentation with Pansterone, et al. I think Pansterone is the culprit. Haidut has explained a possible reason in another thread:

In lower concentrations pregnenolone increases synthesis of both androgens and progesterone. In higher concentrations, it inhibits androgen synthesis but continues to stimulate progesterone synthesis. If the progesterone synthesis pathway becomes too dominant (as was seen with high dose pregnenolone in humans), that can lead to the anti-androgenic side effects associated with progesterone.

I've been doing Pansterone and Kuinone for months, and the progesterone for about a week. It's only after the hyperthyroid day that I'm getting estrogenic symptoms.

I'm hopeful that everything will return to normal soon.

 

[haidut]

@haidut

Interesting; maybe rT3 conversion is a problem then.

Day 3: Blood pressure of 157/70. Pulse of 95, temp of 99.3. Stopped all thyroid. Mirtazapine apparently can either raise or lower BP, so I might go to the ER and get a short-term benzo.

Did you have high blood pressure before?

 

[DaveFoster]

Did you have high blood pressure before?

Nope; 123/70 with 6-8 cups of coffee most days.

 

[haidut]

With this blend applied on the scrotum: Pansterone 8drops/ Androsterone 2 to 4 drops/ Kuinone 4 drops/ Thyromax 8drops (morning and evening)
the results are: increased strength output when doing weight exercises and increased sensitivity/arousal (can orgasm twice to three time as much as without applying the blend)

Great feedback, thanks! I think even 4 drops Pansterone and 2 drops androsterone would be sufficient. The original thread says 2.5mg - 3mg DHEA should be enough.

 

[haidut]

Nope; 123/70 with 6-8 cups of coffee most days.

Well, you may have overdone the thyroid. Eating some cabbage or taking 1g - 2g NAC can usually quickly bring down thyroid storm symptoms. I think Ray recommended this to somebody with similar issues.

 

[DaveFoster]

Well, you may have overdone the thyroid. Eating some cabbage or taking 1g - 2g NAC can usually quickly bring down thyroid storm symptoms. I think Ray recommended this to somebody with similar issues.

Thanks haidut, I'll go get some cabbage. I think it's a very low-key thyroid storm if at all, or rather my body is keeping my heart rate around 95 by some mechanism, maybe estrogen conversion.

 

[Wagner83]

I've been taking topical pregnenolone and DHEA (Pansterone) dissolved in DMSO applied ot the testes (6 mg each daily), with good results.

What were those good results and how old (roughly) are you?

 

[paymanz]

And t3 also stimulates progesterone synthesis, which in men takes place mostly in testis,so that may also counter the estrogen?

 

[Jsaute21]

You can try one dose, I don't think it would fry the gonads. If you feel it is too much you can add T3 drops in the Pansterone mix to make it so that each dose of Pansterone has the steroids and a few mcg of T3.

Just by accident had two drops to the "boys" instead of one. Should have been more careful. One dose of 16 MG shouldn't turn me into Dolly Parton right?

 

[haidut]

Just by accident had two drops to the "boys" instead of one. Should have been more careful. One dose of 16 MG shouldn't turn me into Dolly Parton right?

No, why would it? I don't think T3 is feminizing, if that is what you mean by Dolly

 

[Jsaute21]

Haha it is what I meant. Just was worried the excess t3 at one time would convert to E due to 16 MG being even more than that with DMSO. Ended up sleeping like a rock actually.

 

[Wagner83]

There's a thread on applying topical t3 on scrotum where what happens to T3 in the skin is discussed, the discussion was continued in the ray peat mail advice depository comments thread. From the little I understand it's much more complicated than too much t3 = high estrogens .

 

[Antonello]

@haidut you said 1-2mcg per dose of T3 on testicles, for optimal stimulation of stAR does it need to be applied one time a day or more?
I have a T3 products dissolved in ethanol and glycerin and I don’t feel nothing from 2mcg do you think ethanol is enough as a carrier for absorption?

 

[ntking51]

With this blend applied on the scrotum: Pansterone 8drops/ Androsterone 2 to 4 drops/ Kuinone 4 drops/ Thyromax 8drops (morning and evening)
the results are: increased strength output when doing weight exercises and increased sensitivity/arousal (can orgasm twice to three time as much as without applying the blend)

Do you apply this, and then run it in with your finger?

 

[ntking51]

With this blend applied on the scrotum: Pansterone 8drops/ Androsterone 2 to 4 drops/ Kuinone 4 drops/ Thyromax 8drops (morning and evening)
the results are: increased strength output when doing weight exercises and increased sensitivity/arousal (can orgasm twice to three time as much as without applying the blend)

Where did you get the thyromax, and androsterone?