Intense Stress During Passage Of Food Through Large Intestine

Perry Staltic

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Thanks for the tip. No, haven't tried probiotics recently (other than Mega Sporebiotics, which supposedly produce mild antibiotics in the gut). I consume a fair amount of goat milk, so hopefully the less destructive species have something to eat (but not too much).

I took an antibiotic a while back that made my poop very, very loose with mucousy stuff. I said screw this, stopped taking the stuff, went to the store that night to get some probiotics, downed about 10-20 caps that night, and by the next morning everything was back to normal. Now I regularly use bacillus coagulens. Good vibes.
 

SwissFever

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@Creative Nature Sorry to hear you're still having issues. Even after omitting vitamin E?
In my case, I'm fairly sure it was that and/or the MCT, which is in the product. I think Peat has said MCT can cause intense reactions in some people.
Can you remember where he said this? I started a vit d supp a few days ago containing "medium chain triglycerides" and had some weird symptoms that seems to have ceased since stopping the supp. Anyone else noticed issues with mct??
 

gaze

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Can you remember where he said this? I started a vit d supp a few days ago containing "medium chain triglycerides" and had some weird symptoms that seems to have ceased since stopping the supp. Anyone else noticed issues with mct??

I personally still use vitamin D drops with MCT oil because I havn't noticed anything particularly odd from using it. Does your supplement contain other additives like glycerin? or are you using the drops?
 

SwissFever

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Olive oil, vit d3 (cholecalciferol) sourced from lanolin, mct. 2 drops rubbed into the stomach
 

gaze

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Olive oil, vit d3 (cholecalciferol) sourced from lanolin, mct. 2 drops rubbed into the stomach
i definitely don't think that's the problem then, i've never heard of mct oil causing problems when applied on the skin. its usually orally that may cause a problem
 

Perry Staltic

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I took an antibiotic a while back that made my poop very, very loose with mucousy stuff. I said screw this, stopped taking the stuff, went to the store that night to get some probiotics, downed about 10-20 caps that night, and by the next morning everything was back to normal. Now I regularly use bacillus coagulens. Good vibes.

FYI

Abdominal Pain​

B. coagulans + fructooligosaccharide (FOS) decreased abdominal pain duration and frequency in children with GI disorders [12].

B. coagulans synbiotic seems to be effective in the treatment of childhood functional abdominal pain [13].

B. coagulans significantly improved abdominal pain and the quality of life in adults with postprandial intestinal gas-related symptoms and no GI diagnoses [14].

 

Creative Nature

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do you get other nasal symptoms besides shortness of breath when it happens? some times I find if I eat bread, I'll either sneeze a lot or I'll get a ton of clear mucus discharge. I have felt the shortness of breath as well, but for me personally that happens more so if I eat too much phosphate relative to calcium, if I don't salt things enough, If I don't take vitamin D, etc, but I know you've already tried/doing these things. Gut problems are the worst, all of life at the end of the day comes down to food digestion, so for those of us battling it it's like life is constantly being suppressed.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, @gaze. Well said re GI problems.

No, my nose stays clear most of the time; shortness of breath is the main respiratory symptom. Cheese, gelatin, and goat milk (which was a great idea, BTW, so thanks again) are the proteins my GI seems to tolerate best right now, so my calcium to phosphate ratio is good, and I supplement vitamin D and try to get sun on my balcony.

For me, the challenge with GI problems is that you need a decent metabolism to digest properly, but you need adequate digestion to sustain a decent metabolism. So it looks like I'll have to solve both problems at once. Just trying to keep experimenting and letting go of the need for everything to be "right."
 

Creative Nature

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I took an antibiotic a while back that made my poop very, very loose with mucousy stuff. I said screw this, stopped taking the stuff, went to the store that night to get some probiotics, downed about 10-20 caps that night, and by the next morning everything was back to normal. Now I regularly use bacillus coagulens. Good vibes.

Thanks for suggesting bacillus coagulans. I'll look into it. I get diarrhea infrequently, though; constipation, on the other hand...
 

Creative Nature

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I experimented with very low doses of thyroid in December and January, and like my earlier experiments with coffee, the thyroid experiments made clear that my bowel/endotoxin problems do respond favorably to increases in metabolic rate. My hunch is that good nutrition, decent metabolism, and more gentle movement might be enough to fix them completely.

Since my body is not tolerating coffee (which triggers gastritis) or thyroid right now, my metabolism is in the gutter, but my endotoxin symptoms are still a little better than they were a few months ago, likely because my nutrition is way better. I can eat protein now without major problems, and I'm getting plenty of gelatin, beef liver, and shellfish. Replacing mushrooms with bamboo shoots in the evening (in addition to raw carrots in the afternoon) has increased the rate of intestinal transit, though it's not clear faster transit is helping.

I still have some puzzles to figure out. My bowel distress is often greatest after bowel movements. You'd think my intestine would be much happier after evacuation than before. Sometimes it feels like a lot of material enters the colon in the hours after a bowel movement, which might explain endotoxin symptoms, but sometimes I don't feel much intestinal transit after a bowel movement, and yet still feel terrible. If you have any possible explanations for this mystery, please let me know.

My symptoms can still be pretty debilitating, but they've improved a little with elimination of most oral supplements and improvements in diet, and I think I've made progress in understanding what's happening, even if I haven't yet been able to translate better understanding into better health. I'm trying to treat these intestinal problems as a chance to learn and grow (and hopefully not go crazy in the process, ha ha).
 
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apr

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I experimented with very low doses of thyroid in December and January, and like my earlier experiments with coffee, the thyroid experiments made clear that my bowel/endotoxin problems do respond favorably to increases in metabolic rate. My hunch is that good nutrition, decent metabolism, and more gentle movement might be enough to fix them completely.

Since my body is not tolerating coffee (which triggers gastritis) or thyroid right now, my metabolism is in the gutter, but my endotoxin symptoms are still a little better than they were a few months ago, likely because my nutrition is way better. I can eat protein now without major problems, and I'm getting plenty of gelatin, beef liver, and shellfish. Replacing mushrooms with bamboo shoots in the evening (in addition to raw carrots in the afternoon) has increased the rate of intestinal transit, though it's not clear faster transit is helping.

I still have some puzzles to figure out. My bowel distress is often greatest after bowel movements. You'd think my intestine would be much happier after evacuation than before. Sometimes it feels like a lot of material enters the colon in the hours after a bowel movement, which might explain endotoxin symptoms, but sometimes I don't feel much intestinal transit after a bowel movement, and yet still feel terrible. If you have any possible explanations for this mystery, please let me know.

My symptoms can still be pretty debilitating, but they've improved a little with elimination of most oral supplements and improvements in diet, and I think I've made progress in understanding what's happening, even if I haven't yet been able to translate better understanding into better health. I'm trying to treat these intestinal problems as a chance to learn and grow (and hopefully not go crazy in the process, ha ha).
Hey!

Anything new to report?

I have been going through similar situation since Mar 2020 as well. Followed by a "cold" or COVID or whatever. For months I labeled them panic attacks until I started noticing the correlation between the anxiety and bowel movements. At the beginning I thought it was heart related and went to a cardio who ran the gamut of diagnostics and prescribed high blood pressure meds. Then in Nov I had an arrythmia which didn't help things (emotionally fried). The med I was given for blood pressures lists constipation as a side effect, and for the first time in my life I am dealing with that, and got a subsequent diverticula in Jan. Sucky year!

I seem to do okay during the day. But right after dinner I start getting "the feels" and then try to walk around or distract myself from the emotional component of "I am going to have a heart attack or pass out". Before I would always have a bowel movement afterwards, but now with the constipation, I don't even get that relief.

I take:
magnoil
B1
Fronthealth B vit complex
Taurine
cynoplus or cynomel depending on temps
famotidine occasionally for reflux altho that is much better lately since I have been eating less

Would love to revive this thread. If anyone has done anything to improve I would love to hear it. And CN I hope you are doing better. This is a horrible condition to have....my life has definitely changed.
 

Creative Nature

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Hey!

Anything new to report?

I have been going through similar situation since Mar 2020 as well. Followed by a "cold" or COVID or whatever. For months I labeled them panic attacks until I started noticing the correlation between the anxiety and bowel movements. At the beginning I thought it was heart related and went to a cardio who ran the gamut of diagnostics and prescribed high blood pressure meds. Then in Nov I had an arrythmia which didn't help things (emotionally fried). The med I was given for blood pressures lists constipation as a side effect, and for the first time in my life I am dealing with that, and got a subsequent diverticula in Jan. Sucky year!

I seem to do okay during the day. But right after dinner I start getting "the feels" and then try to walk around or distract myself from the emotional component of "I am going to have a heart attack or pass out". Before I would always have a bowel movement afterwards, but now with the constipation, I don't even get that relief.

I take:
magnoil
B1
Fronthealth B vit complex
Taurine
cynoplus or cynomel depending on temps
famotidine occasionally for reflux altho that is much better lately since I have been eating less

Would love to revive this thread. If anyone has done anything to improve I would love to hear it. And CN I hope you are doing better. This is a horrible condition to have....my life has definitely changed.

Thanks for your good wish, @apr. I'll try to post an update in the next day or two.

Sorry you've been having such a rough time.

I occasionally forget to eat enough carbs in the afternoon or early evening, and when I do, I pay for the mistake in the evening with much worse endotoxin symptoms. You likely don't make this mistake, but if you have any doubts, you might want to play with increasing carbs at (and in the 1-2 hours before) dinner.

Ray Peat has said that low B6 can cause panic attacks (see Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki), and I've experienced this effect. (For me, low B6 causes tension/anxiety in the evening during endotoxin attacks.) I suspect taking lots of B1 may have depleted my B6, even though I was getting some B6 from Georgi's Energin B complex. So a little bit of extra B6 might be another experiment to consider.

I hope you're able to break out of GI hell soon.
 

gaze

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Hey!

Anything new to report?

I have been going through similar situation since Mar 2020 as well. Followed by a "cold" or COVID or whatever. For months I labeled them panic attacks until I started noticing the correlation between the anxiety and bowel movements. At the beginning I thought it was heart related and went to a cardio who ran the gamut of diagnostics and prescribed high blood pressure meds. Then in Nov I had an arrythmia which didn't help things (emotionally fried). The med I was given for blood pressures lists constipation as a side effect, and for the first time in my life I am dealing with that, and got a subsequent diverticula in Jan. Sucky year!

I seem to do okay during the day. But right after dinner I start getting "the feels" and then try to walk around or distract myself from the emotional component of "I am going to have a heart attack or pass out". Before I would always have a bowel movement afterwards, but now with the constipation, I don't even get that relief.

I take:
magnoil
B1
Fronthealth B vit complex
Taurine
cynoplus or cynomel depending on temps
famotidine occasionally for reflux altho that is much better lately since I have been eating less

Would love to revive this thread. If anyone has done anything to improve I would love to hear it. And CN I hope you are doing better. This is a horrible condition to have....my life has definitely changed.
can you expand on how much cynoplus / cynomel you take? have you had your numbers tested? did you have these problems before supplening thyroid too?
 

apr

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Jan 21, 2021
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Thanks for your good wish, @apr. I'll try to post an update in the next day or two.

Sorry you've been having such a rough time.

I occasionally forget to eat enough carbs in the afternoon or early evening, and when I do, I pay for the mistake in the evening with much worse endotoxin symptoms. You likely don't make this mistake, but if you have any doubts, you might want to play with increasing carbs at (and in the 1-2 hours before) dinner.

Ray Peat has said that low B6 can cause panic attacks (see Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki), and I've experienced this effect. (For me, low B6 causes tension/anxiety in the evening during endotoxin attacks.) I suspect taking lots of B1 may have depleted my B6, even though I was getting some B6 from Georgi's Energin B complex. So a little bit of extra B6 might be another experiment to consider.

I hope you're able to break out of GI hell soon.
Thank you CN.

I will look into more B6...the one I have is 100 mg and I read here that was too much. I do take B1 and a B complex.

Appetite is in the dumpster lately.....will try to eat more carbs like you suggest.

Look forward to your update. Take care.
 

HumanLife

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Recently been taking Cocoa powder from Cadbury's brand twice a day with lots of sugar and low-fat milk and damn it helps with moving things along so good.
 

Creative Nature

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Thank you CN.

I will look into more B6...the one I have is 100 mg and I read here that was too much. I do take B1 and a B complex.

Appetite is in the dumpster lately.....will try to eat more carbs like you suggest.

Look forward to your update. Take care.

Yes, when I suggested experimenting with a little extra B6, I was thinking more in the ballpark of 5-10 mg.
 

Creative Nature

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Recently been taking Cocoa powder from Cadbury's brand twice a day with lots of sugar and low-fat milk and damn it helps with moving things along so good.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'd love to be able to eat chocolate or cocoa, but they trigger gastritis for me.
 

Sam321

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Thank you, @Andman. I agree about transdermal use. I used to take Energin orally every day, then experimented with topical use. It can be hard to tell what's irritating my intestine, but even after I switched to topical use, I still had a lingering suspicion that Energin might somehow be contributing to the problem, so I dropped it a few weeks ago. I'll try re-introducing it topically at some point. I like the product a lot; just being cautious.
Heads up. Absorption rates topically are 15-20 x higher than orally.

The standard dosage of 25 drops would be 750-1000mg of b1 and 1.5g to 2 grams of b6. It might be jacking your metabolism up and you don't have the resources to handle it so adrenaline and cortisol kicked in.

I'm having very similar symptoms after a dose of antibiotics in January.
 

Sam321

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Jan 27, 2021
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Have you had a SIBO breath test?
Have you had a stool test for candida overgrowth?

What labs have you done?
I tested positive for methane producing sibo (normal antibiotics dont work against). I also have candida albicans and am excreting biofilm. Your symptoms sound like a mix of both, especially candida. I am having really similar symptoms as you as well.

I ended up taking propranolol to block my adrenaline response and ease off the anxiety and the doctor suggests a round of rifaximin and neomycin.

Bottom line is, of you suspect bacterial and fungal problems don't waste your time on guess work. Get some labs done to see if you have sibo or candida or h pylori and then try to resolve from there..

You can def make things worse with guess work. Sorry you are going thru it. I can seriously empathize.
 

Creative Nature

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First, the good news. During the times when I don't have endotoxin symptoms, my mobility continues to improve. I do 1-2 very short but gradually lengthening walks each day. When I do chores or qi gong, I don't have to sit down as frequently as I did a few months ago. And in spite of gastritis, which prevents me from eating several Peaty foods I'd otherwise enjoy (coffee, chocolate, fruit juice...), my macro- and micro-nutrition continue to improve. Now getting around 115 g of protein per day (amazing when you consider that I used to struggle -- and often fail -- to eat 40-50 g/day). I look a lot healthier and am regaining muscle in spite of minimal exercise.

The bad news is that endotoxin is still running wild. In the past, thyroid has reduced the severity of my endotoxin symptoms, but has eventually depleted nutrients and started causing stress reactions. So I've re-started thyroid at extremely low doses (just a few tiny specks of T3 during the daytime and 12.5 mcg of T4 at night), which I'm slowly increasing in the hope of hitting the sweet spot where I get some relief from endotoxin without getting stress reactions to the thyroid supplement.

Lately I've been wondering whether my gastritis and high endotoxin are related. Perhaps my stomach is the main problem, failing to produce enough HCl and other digestive secretions to break down my food, and then passing along lots of undigested food for the bacteria in my colon to devour. Others on this forum have suggested that chronic stress can inhibit digestive secretions, so this explanation seems to fit my case. But so far, nothing I've done to boost stomach acid -- extra salt, topical B1 and B3 (since I can't take them orally) -- has worked.

I'll appreciate any thoughts, comments, or advice.
 

Sam321

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First, the good news. During the times when I don't have endotoxin symptoms, my mobility continues to improve. I do 1-2 very short but gradually lengthening walks each day. When I do chores or qi gong, I don't have to sit down as frequently as I did a few months ago. And in spite of gastritis, which prevents me from eating several Peaty foods I'd otherwise enjoy (coffee, chocolate, fruit juice...), my macro- and micro-nutrition continue to improve. Now getting around 115 g of protein per day (amazing when you consider that I used to struggle -- and often fail -- to eat 40-50 g/day). I look a lot healthier and am regaining muscle in spite of minimal exercise.

The bad news is that endotoxin is still running wild. In the past, thyroid has reduced the severity of my endotoxin symptoms, but has eventually depleted nutrients and started causing stress reactions. So I've re-started thyroid at extremely low doses (just a few tiny specks of T3 during the daytime and 12.5 mcg of T4 at night), which I'm slowly increasing in the hope of hitting the sweet spot where I get some relief from endotoxin without getting stress reactions to the thyroid supplement.

Lately I've been wondering whether my gastritis and high endotoxin are related. Perhaps my stomach is the main problem, failing to produce enough HCl and other digestive secretions to break down my food, and then passing along lots of undigested food for the bacteria in my colon to devour. Others on this forum have suggested that chronic stress can inhibit digestive secretions, so this explanation seems to fit my case. But so far, nothing I've done to boost stomach acid -- extra salt, topical B1 and B3 (since I can't take them orally) -- has worked.

I'll appreciate any thoughts, comments, or advice.
Low stomach acid causes sibo. Sibo ***** everything up.

Chronic inescapable stress or depression causes low stomach acid.

Have you had a sibo test?
 
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