T
TheBeard
Guest
Was that alongside your transcrotal testosterone or on its own?
On its own to try and boost my endogenous testosterone production. Which it did, but at the cost of my joints.
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Was that alongside your transcrotal testosterone or on its own?
"The role of FSH in the maintenance of spermatogenesis in man is poorly understood. To determine whether normal serum levels of FSH are necessary for the maintenance of quantitatively normal spermatogenesis, we first studied the effect on sperm production of selective FSH deficiency induced by chronic administration of hCG in normal men. Then, we determined the effect of FSH replacement in some of these men. After a 3-month control period, eight normal men (aged 30-39 yr) received 5000 IU hCG, im, twice weekly for 7 months. Then while continuing the same dosage of hCG, subjects simultaneously received 200 mg testosterone enanthate (T), im, weekly for an additional 6 months. hCG administration alone resulted in partial suppression of the mean sperm concentration from 88 +/- 24 (+/-SEM) million/ml during the control period to 22 +/- 7 million/ml during the last 4 months of hCG treatment (P less than 0.001 compared to control values). With the addition of T to hCG, sperm counts remained suppressed to the same degree. Except for one man who became azoospermic while receiving hCG plus T, sperm motilities and morphologies remained normal in all subjects throughout the entire study. During both the hCG alone and hCG plus T periods, serum FSH levels were undetectable (less than 25 ng/ml), and urinary FSH levels were comparable to those in prepubertal children and hypogonadotropic hypogonadal adults. We replaced FSH activity in four of the eight men in whom prolonged selective FSH deficiency and partial suppression of sperm production were induced by hCG administration. Immediately after the period of hCG plus T administration, T was stopped in four men who continued to receive hCG alone (5000 IU, im, twice weekly) for 3 months. Then, while continuing the same dosage of hCG, these men received 100 IU human FSH, sc, daily (n = 2) or 75 IU human menopausal gonadotropin, sc, daily (n = 2) for 5-8 months. During the second period of hCG administration alone, serum FSH levels were undetectable (less than 25 ng/ml), and sperm concentrations were suppressed (34 +/- 13 million/ml) compared to the control values for these four men (125 +/- 39 million/ml; P less than 0.001). With the addition of FSH to hCG, FSH levels increased (213 +/- 72 ng/ml) and sperm concentrations rose significantly, reaching a mean of 103 +/- 30 million/ml (P less than 0.03 compared to hCG alone) "
Now I start to worry about HCG therapy. Anyone can talk more about HCG and fertility?
That was my experience when taking it without testosterone, too. However, alongside testosterone, I only had improvements re: mood, water retention, sex drive, etc, without any of the negatives. I only stopped because it was rapidly thinning out my hair, otherwise I'd still be taking it now.On its own to try and boost my endogenous testosterone production. Which it did, but at the cost of my joints.
That was my experience when taking it without testosterone, too. However, alongside testosterone, I only had improvements re: mood, water retention, sex drive, etc, without any of the negatives. I only stopped because it was rapidly thinning out my hair, otherwise I'd still be taking it now.
I can confirm that tamoxifen is very bad while on it. It worsens my nerve pain and low mood extremely. also very bad sleep. but I have to use it again after 3 months of hcg since my LH didn't go up by its own within a 3 weeks period. maybe I should have waited longer. but I hope to repeat the positive effect after tamox withdrawal last year within ongoing increased LH and testo.Tamoxifen is god damn dreadful as well. I took it for 2 weeks, 5 weeks later I still have lingering nerve pain in my legs which worsens from random other things which didn't cause this before.
My mood has also been really shitty this entire time and only now am I starting to feel a bit better. I have no idea how bodybuilders take this stuff several times per year, I think I'd rather off myself. Wish that all these PCT drugs weren't so toxic. Maybe Exemestane is a good choice.
You guys could try other serms like toremifene, I feel pretty good on it and people generally report positive experiences with it.I can confirm that tamoxifen is very bad while on it. It worsens my nerve pain and low mood extremely. also very bad sleep. but I have to use it again after 3 months of hcg since my LH didn't go up by its own within a 3 weeks period. maybe I should have waited longer. but I hope to repeat the positive effect after tamox withdrawal last year within ongoing increased LH and testo.
I can confirm that tamoxifen is very bad while on it. It worsens my nerve pain and low mood extremely. also very bad sleep. but I have to use it again after 3 months of hcg since my LH didn't go up by its own within a 3 weeks period. maybe I should have waited longer. but I hope to repeat the positive effect after tamox withdrawal last year within ongoing increased LH and testo.
@MyUsernameHere do you have lasting sides of tamoxifen or did it fade out after stopping?
No one is going to have more knowledge than the study you posted.
You read it black on white: it affects fertility by cutting endogenous FSH production.
Hey Slade, very valuable update. Good to hear things are better than ever. What are the exact regimens you have tried before long term low dose hCG?Hi all, it has been quite some time since I have given an update and I just finished my last dose of HCG. (For those of you who don't know, I began a 6 month low dose HCG regimen last July, following JoeKool's advice). My life is busier now and I feel better when I am working on various projects rather than griping about my PFS online.
In summary, I have improved a good amount since this time last year. I have significantly more energy, motivation, and zest than I did when I began the HCG last summer. I think the HCG has helped to increase my testosterone levels, as when I had them checked back in October they were around 450, up from 250 this time last year. I suspect they are even higher now, as my libido is stronger than any time since taking fin 9 years ago. I don't think about libido, drive or energy as a constant problem anymore. If you would have told this to me 4 years ago I would have been over the moon because these have been issues I have felt eternally at war with since taking finasteride in 2011 at 19 years old.
The only real problem I still struggle with is brain fog. While I think it has improved, it has only improved somewhat and I still have a way to go. I am able to think faster and concentrate more, and I am back in my graduate economics class and doing quite well compared to Fall of last year when I had to drop out. Still, my concentration is not normal and I am frequently frustrated with this strange numbness which distorts my vision and focus. There are still times when I feel confused and disoriented, granted I am able to more easily fight through and overcome it (as opposed to last year, when I would sometimes be mentally paralyzed for hours at a time).
I am not sure exactly when this problem is, but I suspect it is demyelination of the nerves. I think it comes from lack of 5-ar neurosteroids (DHT, allopregnanolone, etc) and has progressed through the years because I never truly addressed the problem. Hopefully the HCG has helped to increase the 5-ar (I believe it has) but I may need to run another 6 month cycle of it after taking a couple of months off. I would also like to get back on androsterone/progesterone to see if that helps.
Perhaps the fellas at hackstasis are right and my neurological problems are worsened from actively suppressing estrogen for several years with Peat dieting and supps. I feel better following a Peaty diet, however.
Your thoughts are welcome, and thanks again to @JoeKool for guiding me through the hcg cycle- I do believe I benefitted from it although it hasn't been a complete cure.
Awesome JinStewart. Thanks for the update. What was your PCT and proviron regimen? Maybe these meds changed something after which the upping of androgen production by hCG caused the effects of PCT / proviron to reach full potential. Some sort of synergism.Week 12 HCG NOW 300iu M/W/F
2000iu VitD3 Sun/Weds
Upped the HCG to 300iu. I think that's as high as I'll go. Been at that does for 2-3 weeks now. In little windows but strikingly so today after waking up mental improvements and personality improvements carry on.
So here goes a rambling insight into me struggling to describe how that feels. More like a shaken version of the person I used to be rather than a brain-fogged zombie. God I don't know how to describe this but I could most definitely assure anyone who hadn't had PFS cognitive sides you wouldn't have the vaguest perspective or words available to you to describe the decline and then the improvement. What goes away and how you grasp at it coming back, or what it even was that you lost.
I can look out the window and the sun is going down now. I'm at work. It's evening and I am whole within this world. If I go outside I feel the sunshine on me, wind is cold and I'm "here" with it. I can see a hill. I could walk up that hill and see miles. That's important to some aspect of a soul or character that I have; important enough that I write it all down for everyone else here who's known me all these years. It's just some sentences but the feeling of being a part of that world, a part of the world in this office even... that's SIGNIFICANT. It's a subtlety of a life and mode of thinking you had before and never knew had tangible value.
There is a JOY in this. Something has reconnected and worked. Something that forms part of a mind and functions.
So needless to say I am improving mentally on HCG. Still. Both in terms of becoming a human being again and an ability to work.
Sleep is great.
Physically I think joints may be a little better but I am not exercising, haven't in a meaningful way in 10 months, and I am starting to get a bit fat too.
Sexually I have only improved negligibly if at all. Still hard flaccid and small balls, though their "constistency" seems to change throughout the day. On whatever scale it is at least they fluctuate in some respect. I am fairly confident I can say semen quality has improved.
I'll take bloods start of March. Unless Helen fancies taking a look, in which case I'll take them ASAP.
We're onto something here I think. I started to get "changes" following that steroid cycle on my PCT. Took just a LITTLE edge off a year back. Then SJW a bit, maybe a little I'm not sure, then proviron stirred things up a bit. That showed me although not a miracle in any sense of the word that we CAN affect these sides and improve them. HCG has done me very very well so far.
If I start to improve sexually we've definitely got some info.
NOBODY out there quit, we are going to work this out even if slow and ugly and even if I don't get all the way we've taken things, logged things and we're getting through this.
Could be indeed. Briefly I'll knock up timeline:Awesome JinStewart. Thanks for the update. What was your PCT and proviron regimen? Maybe these meds changed something after which the upping of androgen production by hCG caused the effects of PCT / proviron to reach full potential. Some sort of synergism.
Regards
No sir, though I plan to try it later next month.Have you tried Proviron?
Awesome to hear you're having some positive benefits! I appreciate you keeping us updated on your status the HCG sounds promisingWeek 12 HCG NOW 300iu M/W/F
2000iu VitD3 Sun/Weds
Upped the HCG to 300iu. I think that's as high as I'll go. Been at that does for 2-3 weeks now. In little windows but strikingly so today after waking up mental improvements and personality improvements carry on.
So here goes a rambling insight into me struggling to describe how that feels. More like a shaken version of the person I used to be rather than a brain-fogged zombie. God I don't know how to describe this but I could most definitely assure anyone who hadn't had PFS cognitive sides you wouldn't have the vaguest perspective or words available to you to describe the decline and then the improvement. What goes away and how you grasp at it coming back, or what it even was that you lost.
I can look out the window and the sun is going down now. I'm at work. It's evening and I am whole within this world. If I go outside I feel the sunshine on me, wind is cold and I'm "here" with it. I can see a hill. I could walk up that hill and see miles. That's important to some aspect of a soul or character that I have; important enough that I write it all down for everyone else here who's known me all these years. It's just some sentences but the feeling of being a part of that world, a part of the world in this office even... that's SIGNIFICANT. It's a subtlety of a life and mode of thinking you had before and never knew had tangible value.
There is a JOY in this. Something has reconnected and worked. Something that forms part of a mind and functions.
So needless to say I am improving mentally on HCG. Still. Both in terms of becoming a human being again and an ability to work.
Sleep is great.
Physically I think joints may be a little better but I am not exercising, haven't in a meaningful way in 10 months, and I am starting to get a bit fat too.
Sexually I have only improved negligibly if at all. Still hard flaccid and small balls, though their "constistency" seems to change throughout the day. On whatever scale it is at least they fluctuate in some respect. I am fairly confident I can say semen quality has improved.
I'll take bloods start of March. Unless Helen fancies taking a look, in which case I'll take them ASAP.
We're onto something here I think. I started to get "changes" following that steroid cycle on my PCT. Took just a LITTLE edge off a year back. Then SJW a bit, maybe a little I'm not sure, then proviron stirred things up a bit. That showed me although not a miracle in any sense of the word that we CAN affect these sides and improve them. HCG has done me very very well so far.
If I start to improve sexually we've definitely got some info.
NOBODY out there quit, we are going to work this out even if slow and ugly and even if I don't get all the way we've taken things, logged things and we're getting through this.