Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[TheBeard]

Was that alongside your transcrotal testosterone or on its own?

On its own to try and boost my endogenous testosterone production. Which it did, but at the cost of my joints.

 

[TheBeard]

• DOI: 10.1210/jcem-62-6-1184

"The role of FSH in the maintenance of spermatogenesis in man is poorly understood. To determine whether normal serum levels of FSH are necessary for the maintenance of quantitatively normal spermatogenesis, we first studied the effect on sperm production of selective FSH deficiency induced by chronic administration of hCG in normal men. Then, we determined the effect of FSH replacement in some of these men. After a 3-month control period, eight normal men (aged 30-39 yr) received 5000 IU hCG, im, twice weekly for 7 months. Then while continuing the same dosage of hCG, subjects simultaneously received 200 mg testosterone enanthate (T), im, weekly for an additional 6 months. hCG administration alone resulted in partial suppression of the mean sperm concentration from 88 +/- 24 (+/-SEM) million/ml during the control period to 22 +/- 7 million/ml during the last 4 months of hCG treatment (P less than 0.001 compared to control values). With the addition of T to hCG, sperm counts remained suppressed to the same degree. Except for one man who became azoospermic while receiving hCG plus T, sperm motilities and morphologies remained normal in all subjects throughout the entire study. During both the hCG alone and hCG plus T periods, serum FSH levels were undetectable (less than 25 ng/ml), and urinary FSH levels were comparable to those in prepubertal children and hypogonadotropic hypogonadal adults. We replaced FSH activity in four of the eight men in whom prolonged selective FSH deficiency and partial suppression of sperm production were induced by hCG administration. Immediately after the period of hCG plus T administration, T was stopped in four men who continued to receive hCG alone (5000 IU, im, twice weekly) for 3 months. Then, while continuing the same dosage of hCG, these men received 100 IU human FSH, sc, daily (n = 2) or 75 IU human menopausal gonadotropin, sc, daily (n = 2) for 5-8 months. During the second period of hCG administration alone, serum FSH levels were undetectable (less than 25 ng/ml), and sperm concentrations were suppressed (34 +/- 13 million/ml) compared to the control values for these four men (125 +/- 39 million/ml; P less than 0.001). With the addition of FSH to hCG, FSH levels increased (213 +/- 72 ng/ml) and sperm concentrations rose significantly, reaching a mean of 103 +/- 30 million/ml (P less than 0.03 compared to hCG alone) "

Now I start to worry about HCG therapy. Anyone can talk more about HCG and fertility?

No one is going to have more knowledge than the study you posted.
You read it black on white: it affects fertility by cutting endogenous FSH production.

 

[5a-DHP]

On its own to try and boost my endogenous testosterone production. Which it did, but at the cost of my joints.

That was my experience when taking it without testosterone, too. However, alongside testosterone, I only had improvements re: mood, water retention, sex drive, etc, without any of the negatives. I only stopped because it was rapidly thinning out my hair, otherwise I'd still be taking it now.

 

[TheBeard]

That was my experience when taking it without testosterone, too. However, alongside testosterone, I only had improvements re: mood, water retention, sex drive, etc, without any of the negatives. I only stopped because it was rapidly thinning out my hair, otherwise I'd still be taking it now.

Have you tried Proviron?

 

[stopfin]

Tamoxifen is god damn dreadful as well. I took it for 2 weeks, 5 weeks later I still have lingering nerve pain in my legs which worsens from random other things which didn't cause this before.

My mood has also been really shitty this entire time and only now am I starting to feel a bit better. I have no idea how bodybuilders take this stuff several times per year, I think I'd rather off myself. Wish that all these PCT drugs weren't so toxic. Maybe Exemestane is a good choice.

I can confirm that tamoxifen is very bad while on it. It worsens my nerve pain and low mood extremely. also very bad sleep. but I have to use it again after 3 months of hcg since my LH didn't go up by its own within a 3 weeks period. maybe I should have waited longer. but I hope to repeat the positive effect after tamox withdrawal last year within ongoing increased LH and testo.

 

[Charger]

I can confirm that tamoxifen is very bad while on it. It worsens my nerve pain and low mood extremely. also very bad sleep. but I have to use it again after 3 months of hcg since my LH didn't go up by its own within a 3 weeks period. maybe I should have waited longer. but I hope to repeat the positive effect after tamox withdrawal last year within ongoing increased LH and testo.

You guys could try other serms like toremifene, I feel pretty good on it and people generally report positive experiences with it.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I can confirm that tamoxifen is very bad while on it. It worsens my nerve pain and low mood extremely. also very bad sleep. but I have to use it again after 3 months of hcg since my LH didn't go up by its own within a 3 weeks period. maybe I should have waited longer. but I hope to repeat the positive effect after tamox withdrawal last year within ongoing increased LH and testo.

I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of me taking Tamoxifen again, I think if I have to PCT in the future I will just use exemestane - I honestly felt less bad on Letrozole.

SERMs are hell - it's too bad Raloxifene is not good for PCT since I felt quite good on that.

 

[stopfin]

@MyUsernameHere do you have lasting sides of tamoxifen or did it fade out after stopping?

 

[MyUsernameHere]

@MyUsernameHere do you have lasting sides of tamoxifen or did it fade out after stopping?

I acquired this nerve pain in my legs during Tamoxifen usage, it's been 5 weeks since I quit, and I still have it somewhat. Substances which I used before without issues seem to flare up the nerve pain now (e.g. luteolin, copper, some aromatase inhibitors etc.).

I am hoping that when the Tamoxifen fully clears (not sure how long this will take) it will finally go away...

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Wow, get real. Rip-off cunts.

 

[keytothecity]

More chemhead on post fin/accutane and fasting:

Dealing with accutane hairloss (help) (suicidal)

Hello, I have been through quite the storm over the past 9 or so months. I took accutane about a year ago, and 4 months into the course I began shedding hundreds of hairs a day. Sometimes reaching 500 hairs. I immediately stopped accutane. The shed has been going on now for 7 months about. A...

www.hairlosstalk.com

Oral Steroid Made My Hair Grow Back Thicker!

Water going up into the hair shaft and making it thicker is an absolutely bonkers proposition. You're making too many generalizations, which is exactly why no one gets anywhere in the hair loss industry. Water making the hair shaft thicker is absolutely not bonkers unless you're also willing to...

www.hairlosstalk.com

 

[Jayvee]

View attachment 21457View attachment 21458

Wow, get real. Rip-off cunts.

That must be some seriously good bacteriostatic water! ?

 

[Jayvee]

No one is going to have more knowledge than the study you posted.
You read it black on white: it affects fertility by cutting endogenous FSH production.

Doesn’t seem black and white to me. I’m being lazy here and glance reading but isn’t that study on 5000iu twice a week which is 10,000iu which is like over 3 months worth in a week (if comparing to this protocol of 250iu 3 times one week)... unless I’m missing something? I imagine FSH is likely to still take a hit but nothing like what it was in this study... I actually find it encouraging they weren’t even worse off after 7 months on that size dose.

 

[jinstewart]

Week 12 HCG NOW 300iu M/W/F
2000iu VitD3 Sun/Weds

Upped the HCG to 300iu. I think that's as high as I'll go. Been at that does for 2-3 weeks now. In little windows but strikingly so today after waking up mental improvements and personality improvements carry on.

So here goes a rambling insight into me struggling to describe how that feels. More like a shaken version of the person I used to be rather than a brain-fogged zombie. God I don't know how to describe this but I could most definitely assure anyone who hadn't had PFS cognitive sides you wouldn't have the vaguest perspective or words available to you to describe the decline and then the improvement. What goes away and how you grasp at it coming back, or what it even was that you lost.

I can look out the window and the sun is going down now. I'm at work. It's evening and I am whole within this world. If I go outside I feel the sunshine on me, wind is cold and I'm "here" with it. I can see a hill. I could walk up that hill and see miles. That's important to some aspect of a soul or character that I have; important enough that I write it all down for everyone else here who's known me all these years. It's just some sentences but the feeling of being a part of that world, a part of the world in this office even... that's SIGNIFICANT. It's a subtlety of a life and mode of thinking you had before and never knew had tangible value.

There is a JOY in this. Something has reconnected and worked. Something that forms part of a mind and functions.

So needless to say I am improving mentally on HCG. Still. Both in terms of becoming a human being again and an ability to work.

Sleep is great.

Physically I think joints may be a little better but I am not exercising, haven't in a meaningful way in 10 months, and I am starting to get a bit fat too.

Sexually I have only improved negligibly if at all. Still hard flaccid and small balls, though their "constistency" seems to change throughout the day. On whatever scale it is at least they fluctuate in some respect. I am fairly confident I can say semen quality has improved.

I'll take bloods start of March. Unless Helen fancies taking a look, in which case I'll take them ASAP.

We're onto something here I think. I started to get "changes" following that steroid cycle on my PCT. Took just a LITTLE edge off a year back. Then SJW a bit, maybe a little I'm not sure, then proviron stirred things up a bit. That showed me although not a miracle in any sense of the word that we CAN affect these sides and improve them. HCG has done me very very well so far.

If I start to improve sexually we've definitely got some info.

NOBODY out there quit, we are going to work this out even if slow and ugly and even if I don't get all the way we've taken things, logged things and we're getting through this.

 

[FinVictim]

Hi all, it has been quite some time since I have given an update and I just finished my last dose of HCG. (For those of you who don't know, I began a 6 month low dose HCG regimen last July, following JoeKool's advice). My life is busier now and I feel better when I am working on various projects rather than griping about my PFS online.

In summary, I have improved a good amount since this time last year. I have significantly more energy, motivation, and zest than I did when I began the HCG last summer. I think the HCG has helped to increase my testosterone levels, as when I had them checked back in October they were around 450, up from 250 this time last year. I suspect they are even higher now, as my libido is stronger than any time since taking fin 9 years ago. I don't think about libido, drive or energy as a constant problem anymore. If you would have told this to me 4 years ago I would have been over the moon because these have been issues I have felt eternally at war with since taking finasteride in 2011 at 19 years old.

The only real problem I still struggle with is brain fog. While I think it has improved, it has only improved somewhat and I still have a way to go. I am able to think faster and concentrate more, and I am back in my graduate economics class and doing quite well compared to Fall of last year when I had to drop out. Still, my concentration is not normal and I am frequently frustrated with this strange numbness which distorts my vision and focus. There are still times when I feel confused and disoriented, granted I am able to more easily fight through and overcome it (as opposed to last year, when I would sometimes be mentally paralyzed for hours at a time).

I am not sure exactly when this problem is, but I suspect it is demyelination of the nerves. I think it comes from lack of 5-ar neurosteroids (DHT, allopregnanolone, etc) and has progressed through the years because I never truly addressed the problem. Hopefully the HCG has helped to increase the 5-ar (I believe it has) but I may need to run another 6 month cycle of it after taking a couple of months off. I would also like to get back on androsterone/progesterone to see if that helps.

Perhaps the fellas at hackstasis are right and my neurological problems are worsened from actively suppressing estrogen for several years with Peat dieting and supps. I feel better following a Peaty diet, however.

Your thoughts are welcome, and thanks again to @JoeKool for guiding me through the hcg cycle- I do believe I benefitted from it although it hasn't been a complete cure.

Hey Slade, very valuable update. Good to hear things are better than ever. What are the exact regimens you have tried before long term low dose hCG?

Have you tried proviron or TRT before? It'd be interesting to know whether the cure is a combination of hCG and something else.

I'm 6 weeks into the low dose hCG protocol but am not experiencing any improvements yet. I'm considering taking proviron if the hCG alone is not doing anything after a couple more months.

Regards

 

[FinVictim]

Week 12 HCG NOW 300iu M/W/F
2000iu VitD3 Sun/Weds

Upped the HCG to 300iu. I think that's as high as I'll go. Been at that does for 2-3 weeks now. In little windows but strikingly so today after waking up mental improvements and personality improvements carry on.

So here goes a rambling insight into me struggling to describe how that feels. More like a shaken version of the person I used to be rather than a brain-fogged zombie. God I don't know how to describe this but I could most definitely assure anyone who hadn't had PFS cognitive sides you wouldn't have the vaguest perspective or words available to you to describe the decline and then the improvement. What goes away and how you grasp at it coming back, or what it even was that you lost.

I can look out the window and the sun is going down now. I'm at work. It's evening and I am whole within this world. If I go outside I feel the sunshine on me, wind is cold and I'm "here" with it. I can see a hill. I could walk up that hill and see miles. That's important to some aspect of a soul or character that I have; important enough that I write it all down for everyone else here who's known me all these years. It's just some sentences but the feeling of being a part of that world, a part of the world in this office even... that's SIGNIFICANT. It's a subtlety of a life and mode of thinking you had before and never knew had tangible value.

There is a JOY in this. Something has reconnected and worked. Something that forms part of a mind and functions.

So needless to say I am improving mentally on HCG. Still. Both in terms of becoming a human being again and an ability to work.

Sleep is great.

Physically I think joints may be a little better but I am not exercising, haven't in a meaningful way in 10 months, and I am starting to get a bit fat too.

Sexually I have only improved negligibly if at all. Still hard flaccid and small balls, though their "constistency" seems to change throughout the day. On whatever scale it is at least they fluctuate in some respect. I am fairly confident I can say semen quality has improved.

I'll take bloods start of March. Unless Helen fancies taking a look, in which case I'll take them ASAP.

We're onto something here I think. I started to get "changes" following that steroid cycle on my PCT. Took just a LITTLE edge off a year back. Then SJW a bit, maybe a little I'm not sure, then proviron stirred things up a bit. That showed me although not a miracle in any sense of the word that we CAN affect these sides and improve them. HCG has done me very very well so far.

If I start to improve sexually we've definitely got some info.

NOBODY out there quit, we are going to work this out even if slow and ugly and even if I don't get all the way we've taken things, logged things and we're getting through this.

Awesome JinStewart. Thanks for the update. What was your PCT and proviron regimen? Maybe these meds changed something after which the upping of androgen production by hCG caused the effects of PCT / proviron to reach full potential. Some sort of synergism.

Regards

 

[jinstewart]

Awesome JinStewart. Thanks for the update. What was your PCT and proviron regimen? Maybe these meds changed something after which the upping of androgen production by hCG caused the effects of PCT / proviron to reach full potential. Some sort of synergism.

Regards

Could be indeed. Briefly I'll knock up timeline:

December 2019 started this:
Summary of his cycle is:
3 months on test (12 weeks call it, not sure on the ester)
PCT:
First day 300 mg clomid. Then 100 mg for the rest of the first two weeks, 50mg on the third week, and no clomid on last week.
20mg tamoxifen daily for the four weeks
3000iu hcg the first day of the four weeks and then about 250-300iu every othe day for the four weeks.

Mid-Feb 2020 did this:
Day1 - 300mg clomid, 20mg nolva, 3000iu HCG
Rest of week 1 - 100mg clomid ED, 20mg nolva ED, 250-300iu HCG EOD
Week 2 - 100mg clomid ED, 20mg nolva ED, 250-300iu HCG EOD
Week 3 - 50mg clomid ED, 20mg nolva ED, 250-300iu HCG EOD
Week 4 - 20mg nolva ED, 250-300iu HCG EOD

Waited a couple months but no snapback. A user FuckedNoMore recovered after this very cycle - as close as I can tell, he swore it was the PCT:

I think I'm healed after six year nightmare

Welcome to our community. Please fill in the following template as a way of introducing yourself, and helping others to understand your background and situation. Where are you from (country)? How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or...

forum.propeciahelp.com

I logged it all, so trust that over my memory, but ups and downs until I remember being on the bus and there was a DEFINITE upswing going on. It was small but it was SOMETHING.

Did big dose Saint John's Wort before the summer for a few weeks. Improvements but no miracles.

July 2020 started proviron cycle as per Pal's in all ways. No miracle heal after the 7 weeks but looking over my logs sleep got cemented in. Suicide ideation was HUGE though. Motivation was in the shitter. In fact the suicide thing was enormous. Now I'm thinking about it I don't like to think about it. I'd do it again though now I know the type of animal it is.

Now HCG as per Joe (thanks Joe :) ) although upped to 300iu MWF with the Vit D3 200iu 2x/week. Improved either because of cumulative effect or my dose is "right". Either way things are going on. :)

 

[5a-DHP]

Have you tried Proviron?

No sir, though I plan to try it later next month.

 

[acne1776]

Week 12 HCG NOW 300iu M/W/F
2000iu VitD3 Sun/Weds

Upped the HCG to 300iu. I think that's as high as I'll go. Been at that does for 2-3 weeks now. In little windows but strikingly so today after waking up mental improvements and personality improvements carry on.

So here goes a rambling insight into me struggling to describe how that feels. More like a shaken version of the person I used to be rather than a brain-fogged zombie. God I don't know how to describe this but I could most definitely assure anyone who hadn't had PFS cognitive sides you wouldn't have the vaguest perspective or words available to you to describe the decline and then the improvement. What goes away and how you grasp at it coming back, or what it even was that you lost.

I can look out the window and the sun is going down now. I'm at work. It's evening and I am whole within this world. If I go outside I feel the sunshine on me, wind is cold and I'm "here" with it. I can see a hill. I could walk up that hill and see miles. That's important to some aspect of a soul or character that I have; important enough that I write it all down for everyone else here who's known me all these years. It's just some sentences but the feeling of being a part of that world, a part of the world in this office even... that's SIGNIFICANT. It's a subtlety of a life and mode of thinking you had before and never knew had tangible value.

There is a JOY in this. Something has reconnected and worked. Something that forms part of a mind and functions.

So needless to say I am improving mentally on HCG. Still. Both in terms of becoming a human being again and an ability to work.

Sleep is great.

Physically I think joints may be a little better but I am not exercising, haven't in a meaningful way in 10 months, and I am starting to get a bit fat too.

Sexually I have only improved negligibly if at all. Still hard flaccid and small balls, though their "constistency" seems to change throughout the day. On whatever scale it is at least they fluctuate in some respect. I am fairly confident I can say semen quality has improved.

I'll take bloods start of March. Unless Helen fancies taking a look, in which case I'll take them ASAP.

We're onto something here I think. I started to get "changes" following that steroid cycle on my PCT. Took just a LITTLE edge off a year back. Then SJW a bit, maybe a little I'm not sure, then proviron stirred things up a bit. That showed me although not a miracle in any sense of the word that we CAN affect these sides and improve them. HCG has done me very very well so far.

If I start to improve sexually we've definitely got some info.

NOBODY out there quit, we are going to work this out even if slow and ugly and even if I don't get all the way we've taken things, logged things and we're getting through this.

Awesome to hear you're having some positive benefits! I appreciate you keeping us updated on your status the HCG sounds promising

 

[Mister]

Amazing reading so many people reporting success with HCG.