Fiber for carnivores: eating fur like wolves

[TruffleGnocchi]

HUNGRY LIKE A WOLF - Feeding a Deer to Wolves!​

I was thinking, if RP is right and undigestible, unfermentable fiber is so important, how do wild carnivores that most of the time eat only meat, like wolves and especially cats, have no problems of bacterial overgrowth.
In the video at 9:05 min, it shows a wolf first eating a bite of skin with fur from the deer body.

The host in the video says
"First order of business for a wolf is to start removing the hair. They will eat some of the hair, it works as fiber through their system to remove any bone particles or parasites within the organs".

Can humans eat fur? Are there cultures that eat it?

 

[peter88]

New fad: Fur salad dressed with coconut oil, vinegar, and salt

 

[Blossom]

Hahaha! My cat ate the tail and all from a chipmunk kill this week.

 

[youngsinatra]

Some carnivorous vertebrates, such as dogs and cats, are known to eat grass occasionally. Grass consumption in dogs can be a way to rid their intestinal tract of parasites that may be threatening to the carnivore's health. Various invertebrates also have graminivorous diets.

 

[Robert5493]

Add in some feathers teeth nails and scales,

 

[GTW]

Carnivores, wolves, "primitive" humans, go for the abdominal contents: liver, heart, kidneys, pancreas, and notably in this context, intestines, stomachs, rumen when there is one including some digesta.
A wolf moose kill, the wolves might strip the rumen with lining (tripe) but leave most of the contents which are coarse woody material. However the juice, fermentation products in the rumen and stomachs are nutritious.
Dogs often gobble horse or other feces.

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

It might make more sense how the inuits can survive for generations on meat only, and other carnivore animals, but the "carnivore" diets seen on social media causing problems for many. Maybe the "carnivore" and "paleo" diets people follow are not so carnivore or paleo after all.
The nutrition content of raw thyroid glands, skin, other internal organs, maybe that would make it better. The thyroid gland would at least provide some hormones that would lessen the need for own production, but the halflife of thyroid hormones is short. Would need to eat it daily I imagine.
I've seen dogs eating feces.

I've read that humans can digest bones somewhat. Here is a wikipedia page on Osteophagy (practice in which animals, usually herbivores, consume bones.)

I know they say dogs and cats prefer and look for the grass that is sharp or hard, the one you can almost cut yourself with, not the soft grass. Goes in line with RP's recommendation of eating raw carrot instead of cooked.
Sometimes I crave a lettuce or radicchio salad with vinegar and salt, which from a nutrition view makes no sense. And I imagine could be irritating. Though diarrhea and endotoxin is probably worse than irritation from eating grass.
For a few months now, I've started thinking in the direction of digestion and diet as also a more mechanical thing, not just nutrient thing. Because often when I have diarrhea or other digestive distress, and I start going through the foods in my head and see if I feel I could eat them despite digestive issues, bread and pizza almost always seem like a good idea, I never tried it though, in the past 2-3 years I've ate a small pizza 1 time that was it for grains, except for rice I've eaten like 10-20 times. Gluten and other things in the grains are irritants or toxic, but maybe it isn't the nutrition of the grains, maybe it's the structure and how it affects digestion that could be beneficial, I don't know

Add in some feathers teeth nails and scales,

View attachment 52422

10% doesn't seem like accidental ingestion. Maybe the feces were small.

 

[GTW]

There are artifacts and evidence of species-typical paleo human diet everywhere. Moose meat with organs and fermented digesta? Try a hamburger with lettuce, tomato and pickle. Or hagis.
Go to Sweden and eat sur stromming, raw fermented smelt.

 

[Atman]

I was thinking, if RP is right and undigestible, unfermentable fiber is so important, how do wild carnivores that most of the time eat only meat, like wolves and especially cats, have no problems of bacterial overgrowth.

They are not eating significant amount of indigestible plant matter in the first place. No food for bacteria, no problem.
This is one of the main reasons why keto is "working" for people in the first place.

 

[GTW]

I doubt humans or any hind gut fermenting animals and carnivores will live without gut bacteria/microbiome. Over 70% of human immune system is GALT, gut associated lymph tissue. These cells depend on microbial fermentation short chain fatty acids for energy.
Less fermentable polysaccharides would require an adapted microbiome. Proteins are fermented. Collage and keratin not fully hydrolyzed in the upper GI are fermented, for example. Cells and mucous sloughing off in the respiratory sinuses and upper GI are fermented.

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

They are not eating significant amount of indigestible plant matter in the first place. No food for bacteria, no problem.
This is one of the main reasons why keto is "working" for people in the first place.

True that is also a big factor, and probably also the shorter digestion and maybe increased metabolic rate. They have a higher body temperature, heal faster, grow faster, might be harder for pathogens to infect them.
I think a thing humans have that is a big advantage is we can eat some poisons like ethanol, coffee, some essential oils like eugenol. Only culture or maybe there is more, that did not consume ethanol is muslims, they originated from the desert so there might be less need for disinfectants. Maybe tibetan monks also dont consume ethanol, also an environment with low pathogens I imagine, high up in the mountains. There are a bunch of very old tibetan monks. Even though they are away from city's hospitals.
Nordic people are one of the most long lived, even though according to RP thinking, they have a lot of stress from the cold environment and darkness in the winter, also eat cold water fish with PUFA, yet they are one of the longest lived, biggest and strongest people on earth. I heard Europeans grew taller because nords invaded and took over, and that the ruling noble people were taller than average pleb because of this (not sure if this is true). Maybe the cold winters kill pathogens, and make preserving pathogen free food easy. Most world strongest man winners are from nordic origin. Also the place with most myostatin deficiency gene that makes having more muscle possible and easier. There are some african tribes that have big muscular people, as well as tribes with tiny people . I think majority is nords.

I doubt humans or any hind gut fermenting animals and carnivores will live without gut bacteria/microbiome. Over 70% of human immune system is GALT, gut associated lymph tissue. These cells depend on microbial fermentation short chain fatty acids for energy.
Less fermentable polysaccharides would require an adapted microbiome. Proteins are fermented. Collage and keratin not fully hydrolyzed in the upper GI are fermented, for example. Cells and mucous sloughing off in the respiratory sinuses and upper GI are fermented.

I doubt it. If mice can live better on a actual sterile gut, I don't think humans are that different.

I've seen people say how they achieved sterile gut. I think that is naive unscientific way to think it is possible by taking a single antibiotic and carrot salad, without any test to prove 0 microbes.

I think RP is right about the body not needing microbes, but I think attempting to achieve sterility is futile and possibly detrimental, since it is probably impossible with the technology people have at their disposal (antibiotics + food).
I think for this reason, maybe a good strategy would be to kill indiscriminately all microbes, since you cant really know which you are killing and which are present, unless you get a daily stool analysis, then you will know 90-95% of microbes present or close to that. The remaining 5% could still be the cause of health problems. And also adding live bacteria that you want to have, to try and displace all other microbes. You cut down the population of most of them, then add the ones you want, and repeat. I think that would produce a gut microbiome that has more of the microbes you want and less room/resources for the detrimental ones. Over time of doing this.

I think in the near future, we will engineer microbes that produce exactly what we want, without the endotoxins, and make them resistant to antibiotics to kill others but not those, or make them kill or outcompete the other bacteria, and achieve great benefits from that population wide. I don't see how this will not happen with the technological advancement increasing exponentially.
Until then I think microbes are probably a necessary evil than pure benefit. Maybe not maybe you are right. I cant prove this since getting sterile gut is practically impossible. Maybe there is research that has achieved sterile gut in humans

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

There are artifacts and evidence of species-typical paleo human diet everywhere. Moose meat with organs and fermented digesta? Try a hamburger with lettuce, tomato and pickle. Or hagis.
Go to Sweden and eat sur stromming, raw fermented smelt.

Not sure hamburger with lettuce, tomato and pickle is paleo but sounds good.
Fermented foods seem to be common across the globe. Cooking, smoking, salting, pickling, alcohol, to preserve food and kill the microbes in the body with alcohol and herbs, and adding specific microbes in with fermented food. Almost on all continents places they do this. The reason is speculation

 

[GTW]

With so many variables, many not identified, the best starting point is species-typical evolutionary diets.
100 years ago many nutritionists thought they knew most of what was important. Fiber was wasted. Eating white bread was proven to be more efficient and healthy. Better fed to livestock.
In an old book is an interchange between a veterinarian and a wealthy farmer who fed his children all the best refined food. The farmer asked why his kids were constantly ill. The vet said, if what your kids eat is so good, why not feed your livestock the same? Oh no, said the farmer, that would kill them!
Recently the immune system-gut microbiome dynamics are recognized and studied. It is important to note that dietary fiber is not literally fiber. Similarly the inputs to and influences on the gut microbiome and immune system perspective continues to expand. Prebiotics, probiotics, post-biotics and more!

 

[Kyle970]

Good stuff.
But still such a conundrum - fiber.