Burnt Toast & Charcoal

[Rinse & rePeat]

"I have previously discussed the use of antibiotics (and/or carrot fiber and/or charcoal) to relieve the premenstrual syndrome, and have mentioned the study in which the lifespan was extended by occasionally adding charcoal to the diet. A few years ago, I heard about a Mexican farmer who collected his neighbors' runt pigs, and got them to grow normally by adding charcoal to their diet. This probably achieves the same thing as adding antibiotics to their food, which is practiced by pig farmers in the US to promote growth and efficient use of food. Charcoal, besides binding and removing toxins, is also a powerful catalyst for the oxidative destruction of many toxic chemicals. In a sense, it anticipates the action of the protective enzymes of the intestinal wall and the liver." -Ray Peat

Recently a bottle of charcoal in my cabinet reminded me of a particular night in one of my late teen years. I had taken my evening shower and was drying my hair, when my brother came in with a bite of something on a fork, saying "Taste this", and I did. Immediately I spit it out, asking what it was and why it tasted so bad. He said it was sauerkraut, and that he wasn't sure if he should eat it, because when he punctured the can, to open it, soapy looking bubbled started foaming out of the can. I knew what that meant and ran to my mom to tell her about it. She panicked and loaded up my teenage brother and disappeared down our dirt road and into the night, while I was left at home to watch my little brother and sister. The hospital was an hour away so I busied myself on the phone talking to my girlfriend, waiting to hear about my brother. Later my mom called in, in a panic, telling me to eat a piece of burnt toast, drink some strong black tea and a glass of milk. It was suppose to help remove, ir neutralize the botulism that was about to wreak havoc on, or even kill, me. I followed the directions, and actually enjoyed the burnt toast. For years after that I would slightly burn my toast. Well long story short my brother was brought back home, having had his stomach pumped and i was handed a bottle of Epicac, which had me vomiting until the sun came up.

Funny how a long ago memory can have significance so many years later. Looking at the bottle of activated charcoal in my cabinet the other day, I thought about Ray Peat's recommendations with caffeine, milk and charcoal. I thought how interesting it is that that night of eating burnt toast, drinking milk and black tea, I was being sort of "Peaty". How interesting it is that a protective emergency recommendation to save a life from dying is an everyday recommendation to be healthy via Ray Peat? I hadn't really though about milk being protective in that way, but rather just nourishing. Reading lately that milk removes heavy metals from the body, and of course caffeine blocking iron too, it really has had me thinking.

I have let that bottle of activated charcoal sit in my cabinet for a couple of years, now wondering if I have been passing up some health benefits. Does the charcoal particles pass through the intestines into the blood stream? Does it slow down transit time? Does it have contaminants from how it is made or what it made from? I know I have heard burnt meat is carcinogenic and now burnt toast too. Is this a "Peaty" thing to do a carrot salad's job when carrots aren't around or tolerated? Why is everybody choosing to use antibiotics to remedy bacterial issues when charcoal seems to have some power to eliminate the overgrowths? So many charcoal questions?

 

[Eberhardt]

"I have previously discussed the use of antibiotics (and/or carrot fiber and/or charcoal) to relieve the premenstrual syndrome, and have mentioned the study in which the lifespan was extended by occasionally adding charcoal to the diet. A few years ago, I heard about a Mexican farmer who collected his neighbors' runt pigs, and got them to grow normally by adding charcoal to their diet. This probably achieves the same thing as adding antibiotics to their food, which is practiced by pig farmers in the US to promote growth and efficient use of food. Charcoal, besides binding and removing toxins, is also a powerful catalyst for the oxidative destruction of many toxic chemicals. In a sense, it anticipates the action of the protective enzymes of the intestinal wall and the liver." -Ray Peat

Recently a bottle of charcoal in my cabinet reminded me of a particular night in one of my late teen years. I had taken my evening shower and was drying my hair, when my brother came in with a bite of something on a fork, saying "Taste this", and I did. Immediately I spit it out, asking what it was and why it tasted so bad. He said it was sauerkraut, and that he wasn't sure if he should eat it, because when he punctured the can, to open it, soapy looking bubbled started foaming out of the can. I knew what that meant and ran to my mom to tell her about it. She panicked and loaded up my teenage brother and disappeared down our dirt road and into the night, while I was left at home to watch my little brother and sister. The hospital was an hour away so I busied myself on the phone talking to my girlfriend, waiting to hear about my brother. Later my mom called in, in a panic, telling me to eat a piece of burnt toast, drink some strong black tea and a glass of milk. It was suppose to help remove, ir neutralize the botulism that was about to wreak havoc on, or even kill, me. I followed the directions, and actually enjoyed the burnt toast. For years after that I would slightly burn my toast. Well long story short my brother was brought back home, having had his stomach pumped and i was handed a bottle of Epicac, which had me vomiting until the sun came up.

Funny how a long ago memory can have significance so many years later. Looking at the bottle of activated charcoal in my cabinet the other day, I thought about Ray Peat's recommendations with caffeine, milk and charcoal. I thought how interesting it is that that night of eating burnt toast, drinking milk and black tea, I was being sort of "Peaty". How interesting it is that a protective emergency recommendation to save a life from dying is an everyday recommendation to be healthy via Ray Peat? I hadn't really though about milk being protective in that way, but rather just nourishing. Reading lately that milk removes heavy metals from the body, and of course caffeine blocking iron too, it really has had me thinking.

I have let that bottle of activated charcoal sit in my cabinet for a couple of years, now wondering if I have been passing up some health benefits. Does the charcoal particles pass through the intestines into the blood stream? Does it slow down transit time? Does it have contaminants from how it is made or what it made from? I know I have heard burnt meat is carcinogenic and now burnt toast too. Is this a "Peaty" thing to do a carrot salad's job when carrots aren't around or tolerated? Why is everybody choosing to use antibiotics to remedy bacterial issues when charcoal seems to have some power to eliminate the overgrowths? So many charcoal questions?

I really wonder too. I have tested some and hardwood is the only one "working" for me - the coconut thing seems to trigger reactions. I know there's some threads on this forum on charcoal but I dont think they address exactly this. Anyways: I have read of charcoal powder being found in both tumors and lymph supposedly even in humans. But according to another thread here mice experiments have shown that it extends their life-expectancy by 30% when highd doses are administered daily. Prolbem is we dont know that they've been feeding/ how they've been treating those poor mice. So might be just that it removes some really toxic stuff they are fed and that a negative effect would be seen if they were given good conditions. I know peat thinks bamboo is almost as good as carrots if not as good. And in interviews he said charcoal is about as good but can have impurities. But a good provider with certificate and not from big pharma would probalbly take care of that. Problem is that nobody addresses properly the persorption and the potential carcinogenig effect (regardless of persorption). Actally we dont have very good research saying that burnt food is carcinogenic. it is mainly inferred by the production of polyamins in the burnt food which in animal studies is carcinogenic. But since there is indication of maybe a million or more years of cooking it is speculated that humans might have adapted to it in the same way we have adapted to smoke from fires (people with lots of neanderthal genes supposedly have less tolerance for smoke due to less adaption) . So it might be that we are largely protected from those ill effects. and one CAN be so well protected that it is harmless, not only less harmful. Think cats which have a permanent adaption making them never go into ketosis withoug carbs. That one ha been so successfull they dont need carbs and dont process them well. 10% or more of inuitts also have an adaption making the not go into ketosis. So we dont really know how burnt food affects us, though Peat does not recomend it due to this. In the same way as he stirfries meat to lessen total amount of PA and other byproducts.
But what about estrogenic effects?? I mean soot is actually used to produce synthetic estrogens and is estrogenic in iteself. Why should charcoal be different?? and how do we know if it is entering the bloodstream. I use it mostly topical but still wondering if its good.

 

[Brundle]

I hope it's true that we have adapted to it through hundreds of thousands of years of cooking foods on fires. There must be a valid reason why slightly burnt toast tastes better than undercooked toast.

 

[Eberhardt]

I hope it's true that we have adapted to it through hundreds of thousands of years of cooking foods on fires. There must be a valid reason why slightly burnt toast tastes better than undercooked toast.

I hope so too... but the tastething could also be due to the breakdown of the starch?? I think we have an inbuildt dislike for it - like raw potatoes...:s

 

[skuabird]

I've never had a bad charcoal experience. Last time I took it, I had brain fog/headache, fatigue and as soon as it started moving through me, I felt back to normal. I find it helps with PMS a lot. Sometimes I follow it with a senna tea to help it move through. I was just thinking that maybe I should make it a weekly thing.

 

[rei]

Sounds like a pretty severe overreaction.

And no, burning food is not the same as consuming activated charcoal.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I really wonder too. I have tested some and hardwood is the only one "working" for me - the coconut thing seems to trigger reactions. I know there's some threads on this forum on charcoal but I dont think they address exactly this. Anyways: I have read of charcoal powder being found in both tumors and lymph supposedly even in humans. But according to another thread here mice experiments have shown that it extends their life-expectancy by 30% when highd doses are administered daily. Prolbem is we dont know that they've been feeding/ how they've been treating those poor mice. So might be just that it removes some really toxic stuff they are fed and that a negative effect would be seen if they were given good conditions. I know peat thinks bamboo is almost as good as carrots if not as good. And in interviews he said charcoal is about as good but can have impurities. But a good provider with certificate and not from big pharma would probalbly take care of that. Problem is that nobody addresses properly the persorption and the potential carcinogenig effect (regardless of persorption). Actally we dont have very good research saying that burnt food is carcinogenic. it is mainly inferred by the production of polyamins in the burnt food which in animal studies is carcinogenic. But since there is indication of maybe a million or more years of cooking it is speculated that humans might have adapted to it in the same way we have adapted to smoke from fires (people with lots of neanderthal genes supposedly have less tolerance for smoke due to less adaption) . So it might be that we are largely protected from those ill effects. and one CAN be so well protected that it is harmless, not only less harmful. Think cats which have a permanent adaption making them never go into ketosis withoug carbs. That one ha been so successfull they dont need carbs and dont process them well. 10% or more of inuitts also have an adaption making the not go into ketosis. So we dont really know how burnt food affects us, though Peat does not recomend it due to this. In the same way as he stirfries meat to lessen total amount of PA and other byproducts.
But what about estrogenic effects?? I mean soot is actually used to produce synthetic estrogens and is estrogenic in iteself. Why should charcoal be different?? and how do we know if it is entering the bloodstream. I use it mostly topical but still wondering if its good.

You brought up just as many good points and questions as I did Eberhardt! I have read so many conflicting points and even ones from Ray saying it's good, but it can be bad. I am so unsure that everytime I grab a capsule ready to wash one down, i stop myself to rethink it some more. Where did you purchase your hardwood one and what have been your "positives" with it?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I hope it's true that we have adapted to it through hundreds of thousands of years of cooking foods on fires. There must be a valid reason why slightly burnt toast tastes better than undercooked toast.

Hmmm that is an interesting comparison Brundle? ? Maybe we have an instinctive need for charcoal?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I really wonder too. I have tested some and hardwood is the only one "working" for me - the coconut thing seems to trigger reactions. I know there's some threads on this forum on charcoal but I dont think they address exactly this. Anyways: I have read of charcoal powder being found in both tumors and lymph supposedly even in humans. But according to another thread here mice experiments have shown that it extends their life-expectancy by 30% when highd doses are administered daily. Prolbem is we dont know that they've been feeding/ how they've been treating those poor mice. So might be just that it removes some really toxic stuff they are fed and that a negative effect would be seen if they were given good conditions. I know peat thinks bamboo is almost as good as carrots if not as good. And in interviews he said charcoal is about as good but can have impurities. But a good provider with certificate and not from big pharma would probalbly take care of that. Problem is that nobody addresses properly the persorption and the potential carcinogenig effect (regardless of persorption). Actally we dont have very good research saying that burnt food is carcinogenic. it is mainly inferred by the production of polyamins in the burnt food which in animal studies is carcinogenic. But since there is indication of maybe a million or more years of cooking it is speculated that humans might have adapted to it in the same way we have adapted to smoke from fires (people with lots of neanderthal genes supposedly have less tolerance for smoke due to less adaption) . So it might be that we are largely protected from those ill effects. and one CAN be so well protected that it is harmless, not only less harmful. Think cats which have a permanent adaption making them never go into ketosis withoug carbs. That one ha been so successfull they dont need carbs and dont process them well. 10% or more of inuitts also have an adaption making the not go into ketosis. So we dont really know how burnt food affects us, though Peat does not recomend it due to this. In the same way as he stirfries meat to lessen total amount of PA and other byproducts.
But what about estrogenic effects?? I mean soot is actually used to produce synthetic estrogens and is estrogenic in iteself. Why should charcoal be different?? and how do we know if it is entering the bloodstream. I use it mostly topical but still wondering if its good.

I am thinking more about what you said about barbecued meat and carcinogens. What kind of meat were these cancer studies done with. We already know what happens with PUFA's and heat? ?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I've never had a bad charcoal experience. Last time I took it, I had brain fog/headache, fatigue and as soon as it started moving through me, I felt back to normal. I find it helps with PMS a lot. Sometimes I follow it with a senna tea to help it move through. I was just thinking that maybe I should make it a weekly thing.

Are you committed to a particular brand skuabird? I wonder if some brands might keep their particles less ground so it can't get into the blood stream?

 

[Eberhardt]

You brought up just as many good points and questions as I did Eberhardt! I have read so many conflicting points and even ones from Ray saying it's good, but it can be bad. I am so unsure that everytime I grab a capsule ready to wash one down, i stop myself to rethink it some more. Where did you purchase your hardwood one and what have been your "positives" with it?

thank you :) I got recommended charcoal house. they are located in the us. I dont know havent felt to much actually. But topically it helps my athletes foot.

 

[skuabird]

Are you committed to a particular brand skuabird? I wonder if some brands might keep their particles less ground so it can't get into the blood stream?

I looked in my order history, it's hardwood activated charcoal powder from Zen Charcoal. I believe I've tried coconut a long time ago too, but I don't remember what it was like (and why I switched to hardwood).

 

[Eberhardt]

I am thinking more about what you said about barbecued meat and carcinogens. What kind of meat were these cancer studies done with. We already know what happens with PUFA's and heat? ?

Good question. I dont know actually. I dont even know if they were done with meat or if they just fed the labrats polyamins with their food. I think some have been with real food though. And yes pufas is one thing, I guess time and degree of charring might also be relevant? Still I feel the research on polyamins as a carcinogen (whatever that means - I remember peat telling his professors got mad at him when as a student he was given the task of presenting a speach on carcinogenes and the point was that there was a couple of them but Peat saw that it was in context and degree so he dug up about 50 and presented them to prove there was something wonky about the automated non-contextual way of looking at it- and theydidnt like that lecture :P - he wasnt asked againg I think ) is pretty solid. THey seem to be contributin to cancer in some cases in animals. But at least they seem to not be healthpromoting - I'd rather make that distinction as I mean even being bored is slightly carcinogenic! So its hard to tell what it does in humans. On the barbeque part peat said the logical thing that even if the concentrationn is higher on the surface when stirfrying then its mainly in the outer layer, while its spread throughout the meat on slower cooking which makes the total amount ingested higher :) Dont know if I'd say my answer actually cleared things up. more of specifying the questions. I also wonder about particel size both on test animals with charcoal and if the theory of using larger grains would help as the really fine ones even contains nano-sized particles

 

[SOMO]

Yes, charcoal CAN enter your blood stream, but it mostly depends on the grain size.

And I don't think it's a big concern. I think it's unlikely and I would still take the activated charcoal.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I hope so too... but the tastething could also be due to the breakdown of the starch?? I think we have an inbuildt dislike for it - like raw potatoes...:s

Good question. I dont know actually. I dont even know if they were done with meat or if they just fed the labrats polyamins with their food. I think some have been with real food though. And yes pufas is one thing, I guess time and degree of charring might also be relevant? Still I feel the research on polyamins as a carcinogen (whatever that means - I remember peat telling his professors got mad at him when as a student he was given the task of presenting a speach on carcinogenes and the point was that there was a couple of them but Peat saw that it was in context and degree so he dug up about 50 and presented them to prove there was something wonky about the automated non-contextual way of looking at it- and theydidnt like that lecture :P - he wasnt asked againg I think ) is pretty solid. THey seem to be contributin to cancer in some cases in animals. But at least they seem to not be healthpromoting - I'd rather make that distinction as I mean even being bored is slightly carcinogenic! So its hard to tell what it does in humans. On the barbeque part peat said the logical thing that even if the concentrationn is higher on the surface when stirfrying then its mainly in the outer layer, while its spread throughout the meat on slower cooking which makes the total amount ingested higher :) Dont know if I'd say my answer actually cleared things up. more of specifying the questions. I also wonder about particel size both on test animals with charcoal and if the theory of using larger grains would help as the really fine ones even contains nano-sized particles

I am so glad to finally hear some careful weighing of this subject before blindly jumping in. When health is going so well it is hard to sign up for a what could be better or could be a wrench. That is interesting about slow cooking being possibly worse that a quick grilling. I feel good eating a pan-fried or barbecued steak, but I always thought it was because I cook mine so rare that my feeling of "well being" was from preserving the enzymes in the rare meat, like an undercooked yolk. Now I wonder if the less cooking of the meat in our charcoal context, might have more weight in why?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I looked in my order history, it's hardwood activated charcoal powder from Zen Charcoal. I believe I've tried coconut a long time ago too, but I don't remember what it was like (and why I switched to hardwood).

How long have you been taking it skuabird?

 

[skuabird]

How long have you been taking it skuabird?

The hardwood one since 2017. But very rarely, like some years only once internally (I use it on my teeth and I used to do bentonite and charcoal face masks but I never do anymore). I have tried drinking water with a tsp of charcoal more frequently lately, like once every two months or so, and it has consistently made me feel better.

I remember I took some pills for bloating and upset stomach in my early twenties. They worked so well I looked into it- the main ingredient was charcoal- and so I have used it off and on since.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

The hardwood one since 2017. But very rarely, like some years only once internally (I use it on my teeth and I used to do bentonite and charcoal face masks but I never do anymore). I have tried drinking water with a tsp of charcoal more frequently lately, like once every two months or so, and it has consistently made me feel better.

I remember I took some pills for bloating and upset stomach in my early twenties. They worked so well I looked into it- the main ingredient was charcoal- and so I have used it off and on since.

You are definetly making me lean towards trying it. Do you take it when feeling good or is more of something to take to undo something, like a restaurant visit?

 

[Eberhardt]

I am so glad to finally hear some careful weighing of this subject before blindly jumping in. When health is going so well it is hard to sign up for a what could be better or could be a wrench. That is interesting about slow cooking being possibly worse that a quick grilling. I feel good eating a pan-fried or barbecued steak, but I always thought it was because I cook mine so rare that my feeling of "well being" was from preserving the enzymes in the rare meat, like an undercooked yolk. Now I wonder if the less cooking of the meat in our charcoal context, might have more weight in why?

thank you again - I think maybe it might be both?? both less byproducts and more enzymes?? dont know. I've experimented with eating meat raw also but if I do any amount over 100g I get progesterone like effects (or side effects) my moles start growing like crazy which can be a side effect of high doses. I thin maybe weston price was right there - mostly cooked with some raw? But eggs are special- I cant for my life remember what it was nw but there is a special ingredient in eggs making them very unsuited for heating that you only avoid by raw eggs.(though I dont think it has been proven in vivo with actuall cooked egg consumption- only indirectly). But I agree I like the blitzcooking ! Not sur I understand you last line? "more weight in why?"

 

[Eberhardt]

You are definetly making me lean towards trying it. Do you take it when feeling good or is more of something to take to undo something, like a restaurant visit?

oh I didnt think back. when I was a kid my mum gave it to me if I got food poisning or regualr vomiting/diarea from food. It stopped most of the diarea and made me feel better.