Eating beans, seeds, and rock powders for better bowel movements (and overall health)

[Jonk]

Ray is very pro fiber, as it clears out estrogens and endotoxins from the gut/liver. It’s why he recommends carrots, bamboo shoots, bran. The reason he doesn’t recommend nuts, seeds, beans etc is it has a lot of other toxins that can cause issues.
If they work for you, that’s great. It’s about finding the right type of fiber you can tolerate

Well said!

 

[Limon9]

Bean Protocol cracks me up every time.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

I also find that beans help me with stabilizing the blood sugar level throughout the day. Have you had a similar experience?

Absolutely. Blood sugar stabilization goes hand in hand with adrenal health, I think. Whole food vitamin C and some kinds of magnesium, like that from ocean water concentrate or vegetables themselves also seems to help to this same end. I find that my caffeine tolerance and blood sugar stability correlate with each other. Azomite and dolomite lime rock powders also notably improve this category for me, too.

@Twohandsondeck I really enjoyed your post and I found it to be useful and relatable. There have been times in my past where I literally craved refried beans or black beans and I would eat an entire can on the spot in a bizarre ravenous manner....

Follow the cravings! There's always a reason.

So I am a person that has never been able to eat dairy products without getting sinus infections, ever since I was a young child. I could go on and on about that and critique your high dairy consumption- but I won't , because one major thing I've learned on this forum is that different bodies require different diets and different foods affect different bodies differently! It's wonderful to hear other people's experiences with foods and also very interesting to notice how our bodies react to the same foods over the course of a year or two depending on what else we are doing or not doing in our life...

Dairy intolerance is a peculiar thing. I would send myself on a hellish hiatus after milk consumption for a few years before following the milch regimen for a few weeks. I hope you also find the ability to imbibe in the magic liquid in due time ^.^

Thanks again for your unique perspective and I will continue to observe this thread

Cheers, thank you.

Ray is very pro fiber, as it clears out estrogens and endotoxins from the gut/liver. It’s why he recommends carrots, bamboo shoots, bran. The reason he doesn’t recommend nuts, seeds, beans etc is it has a lot of other toxins that can cause issues.
If they work for you, that’s great. It’s about finding the right type of fiber you can tolerate

I don't disagree. The hidden part of this post is to entertain the idea of why these other fibrous foods (may potentially) contain benefits not offered by carrots, bamboo shoots, and bran. They're completely different food groups and so contain a largely different package of compounds besides a nutritional label similarity of insoluble fiber.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

@Twohandsondeck
What herbs are you currently using?
What is a typical feeding routine like, solar timing?
Always enjoyed Atom Bergstrom, I listen to pretty much every interview.
I react poorly to almost all Peat style food, tried many approaches. In my mind, I think I'm more toxic than undernourished. I am glad it works well for some and I do think Peat diet is superior for someone in a certain state. I feed my kids basically a Peat style diet and they absolutely thrive. But I do not.

Herbs - coffee (ha) with carob powder, honey, and heavy cream in the morning

Every other day or so I'll take a capsule of Dr. Schulze's intestinal formula #1

Oats soaked in milk at midday. Pumpkin and sunflower seeds anytime of day. Raw cheese and honey at anytime, raw milk at anytime. Cooked beans with maybe a vegetable and dulse seaweed flakes thrown in.

Azomite, illite, basalt, dolomite lime, zeolite combinations with water to thirst before bed.

Acerola cherry powder, dessicated animal organs, raw animal organs on rare occasion.

I was once very strict with Bergstrom's tai ming advice and can report that there's something magical to it, though I don't stress it these days.

I feel similarly about the Peat suggestions. Cooked liver, raw carrots, aspirin, canned oysters, progesterone, white sugar have never done me any favors. Despite this, I think the basis of rehabilitating the carbohydrate metabolism is a worthwhile premise that most of us do well to keep in consideration.

 

[Korven]

Ray is very pro fiber, as it clears out estrogens and endotoxins from the gut/liver. It’s why he recommends carrots, bamboo shoots, bran. The reason he doesn’t recommend nuts, seeds, beans etc is it has a lot of other toxins that can cause issues.
If they work for you, that’s great. It’s about finding the right type of fiber you can tolerate

Thank you for mentioning this, Ray has always recommended (specific) fibers for the purpose of getting rid of endotoxins, estrogens, etc. It's great that people are seeing benefits from incorporating legumes in their diet -- personally I got nowhere doing the Bean Protocol and do much better with Ray's recommendations of minimizing fiber/very specific fibers. I have seen people doing awesome on beans and some doing terrible *myself included, so I think it's mostly down to trial and error and figuring out what foods work for you,

edit: I should add that this wasn't a criticism against your post @Twohandsondeck , I like the discussion about what legumes can offer in terms of health and nutrition, as well as the rock powders (I myself enjoy big drinks of zeolite clay). It was more a general statement cause I've seen some people here imply that Ray never recommended fibers in the diet and that you can't detox properly on a Ray Peat Diet, which is not true.

 

[Kyle970]

Herbs - coffee (ha) with carob powder, honey, and heavy cream in the morning

Every other day or so I'll take a capsule of Dr. Schulze's intestinal formula #1

Oats soaked in milk at midday. Pumpkin and sunflower seeds anytime of day. Raw cheese and honey at anytime, raw milk at anytime. Cooked beans with maybe a vegetable and dulse seaweed flakes thrown in.

Azomite, illite, basalt, dolomite lime, zeolite combinations with water to thirst before bed.

Acerola cherry powder, dessicated animal organs, raw animal organs on rare occasion.

I was once very strict with Bergstrom's tai ming advice and can report that there's something magical to it, though I don't stress it these days.

I feel similarly about the Peat suggestions. Cooked liver, raw carrots, aspirin, canned oysters, progesterone, white sugar have never done me any favors. Despite this, I think the basis of rehabilitating the carbohydrate metabolism is a worthwhile premise that most of us do well to keep in consideration.

Thank you that. I always enjoy your threads and learn something.

For the record to another poster, I was not being critical to Ray's diet "you can detox on his diet", I'm not sure if this was directed at me.
We are all at a different place in health, what works for some may indeed not work for others. What I learned from some of Ray's interviews it is good to have your own disernment for your own body. For example probably somewhere, someone just got chemo and they are getting a pizza on the way home. They may even feel better and they're health improves. I'm okay with that but I would try something different personally. My point is there could be an appropriate time and a place for most things, like beans.

 

[Korven]

Thank you that. I always enjoy your threads and learn something.

For the record to another poster, I was not being critical to Ray's diet "you can detox on his diet", I'm not sure if this was directed at me.
We are all at a different place in health, what works for some may indeed not work for others. What I learned from some of Ray's interviews it is good to have your own disernment for your own body. For example probably somewhere, someone just got chemo and they are getting a pizza on the way home. They may even feel better and they're health improves. I'm okay with that but I would try something different personally. My point is there could be an appropriate time and a place for most things, like beans.

Hi, no it was definitely not directed at you nor anyone else that wants to experiment with/is experimenting with eating beans!

I think experimentation should always be encouraged and if beans are improving someone's health then certainly it must be considered a healthy food. It was more a response to statements like "you must eat beans for 1-2 years to heal from the Ray Peat Diet, and you will feel worse before you feel better". My own experience is that eating a lot of beans, when my digestion and gut microbiome didn't like beans, was a bad idea, and that the "sucky detox phase" never ended. Actually in hindsight it probably was a good experiment because it made more perceptive about how different foods make me feel. Things like oatmeal and apples on the other hand seem to agree better with my system for whatever reason, so again highly individual!

 

[akgrrrl]

I purchased the book by Lisle and am finding the historical references fascinating. Thankyou for embarking on this thread, I am looking forward to the balance of this book, a review of his bibliography, and the addition of the tome to my library section on minerals, geology, and gemstones.

 

[Vins7]

How were you able to do the Milk fasting without having symptoms of too much liquid? I would be constantly peeing and and with very low temperature.
I would like to try It because I suspect that I have a yeast dysbiosis but I don't know how to organise drinking all this liquids without afecting my health... Has anyone else tried it? any suggestions?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

How were you able to do the Milk fasting without having symptoms of too much liquid?

Read through the guide before attempting:

"When A Turk's Bowels Move Less Than Three Times A Day, He Consults A Physician."

Autointoxication; or, Intestinal toxemia : Kellogg, John Harvey, 1852-1943 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive "Very few surgeons are yet convinced that the elimination of the colon from human beings would be an improvement on the Creator's handiword; and it is a notorious fact that...

raypeatforum.com

Fruit fasting until the tongue has no coat and the bowel movements have no smell is the first step. This will take some number of days.

From 7AM to 7PM consume one cup of milk every 30 minutes except replace it with fruit for one feeding session between 12 and 2PM.

Raw potato starch is said to be a similar, slow-digesting sugar like lactose, but milk is still preferred for over 90% of the calories.

If the bowels are not moving fast enough, it's said that the milk protein (casein or whey) can cause an inflammatory reaction. Using water (or even milk) enemas will prevent these problems.

It is strictly required that acidic foods like eggs or meat are NOT consumed while milk fasting, because this will cause the stomach to become acidic, which (somehow) prevents the lactose sugar from getting all the way to the colon.

[Good luck!]

 

[TradClare]

When I have done the milk fasting, my stomach doesn't feel right even after 10+ days. Longest I made it was 2 weeks. I did fruit fast and water fasting first. The milk sadly still bloats me and my guts feel like a water bed on it. Always tempting to try again since I love it and can get good cheap raw milk locally. But do I really want the acne, headaches, and gas...

 

[Kyle970]

@Korven
Agree 100%.

 

[moa]

I've been considering increasing my fiber intake.

Based on my research and experience i find that soluble fiber is more important than insoluble but, having insoluble fiber with the right soluble fiber is very helpful especially when gut is not yet functioning well (during healing).

Soluble fiber is important for healthy gut microbiote. but the type of soluble fiber is very important. i found that the type of fiber called mucilage like in psyllium and i think oatmeal is detrimental, not the good one to have. If i remember well some old posts, Ray started to experiment with oatmeal before he passed (I'm not saying had m is linked, but who knowns). In my experience oats was a disaster as well as too much psyllium.

The type of fiber that i think it's best, is pectins and inulin, maybe to a lesser extent some types of resistant starch (not sure witch ones yet).

Long chain inulin is the best i think, you can only find it in artichoke.

I've experienced with artichoke this past 5 months, but it's expensive and hard to cook and eat, do i only did it occasionally, but the result was consistent each time : very good improvement in colon feeling, and stool consistency the next day or two.

i think commercial inulin (short chain) is not as good, is say maybe the next best fiber after artichoke is pectin.

carrots have lots of pectin if i remember and i would say the benefits of carrots come from pectin first and insoluble fiber second, mixing both is what makes them good.

cooked carrots still are extremely good for gut health, and used traditionally in my country for gastritis diarrhea caused by bacterial contaminated foods.

i am still holding from experiencing with baobab power, since my gut is getting better without it for now, il post back after i do this.

I'm also using b. coagulans daily the past 5 months, very very good probiotic, sibo safe, gerd safe and very good for IBS from my experience. it never caused my any issue, but seem to help consistently. i take it every day, i add some B2 with it every 2 weeks or so (to boost good bacteria).

but it's not that simple as take soluble fiber , you must find the good one, start slowly excepting with good ones like artichoke that won't cause any issue (cause long chain inulin is very hard to use by lost bacteria, don't cause gas and is highly selective on the types of bacteria they feed).

also candida can become in symbiosis with bad bacteria that hides in biofilm created by candida, think about this if you have IBS. i used berberine a few days with some doxycycline, followed by high dose probiotics short term and then b. coagulans long term.

once candida and the bad bacteria are dissociated, candida will become harmless (unless you have low immunity but that's other thing). candida is causing problems only by symbiosis with bad bacteria, protecting the bad bacteria with its biofilm. once you break the cycle, and good bacteria is introduced, then it's important to maintain candida low by feeding the bacteria so that candida won't start creating biofilm again.

fibers like mucilage are not good, cause i think they don't participate in the gut ecosystem, but provide bulk that is like isolated ecosystem, where nasty bacteria and maybe candida or whatever can develop, as opportunistic.

Gut mucosa is constantly getting rid of bad bacteria, even if you eat some food with contaminated bacteria, it only stays a few days, but mucilage create "tape worms" that can stick a few days longer than normal food (as soon as two meals meet in your colon it was called constipation in Roman empire.... so even if tape worms only stay a few days it's dangerous, no need for them to stay there for years as some people think they do), allowing bad bacteria a safe refuge, compared to mucosal lining where bad bacteria could not survive long enaught in a more or less healthy individual (especially if you take b coagulans for example).

this is not the same as "candida problems" most people describe, usually it's about candida growing inside the body. this is something else, usually when you either starve it or have serious low immunity, but the biofilm in symbiosis between candida and bacteria is something else, found in IBS and IBD patients, and is not too be confused with candida attacking the gut mucosa (that most internet forums talk about).

here, candida is only providing the biofilm for bacteria, and it's bacteria that is the real bad guy, not candida. but that kind of bacteria would have zero chance to survive in the normal gut microbiote, without protection from candida.

i have never tried s. boulardi (maybe it can displace candida and break the biofilm). it worked without, but that could be something to try if your don't have any doxycycline and berberine.

see my older posts for how much i took until i got rid of it, not much, only 4 days doxycycline.

also i needed to take zinc with choline to fix my IBS-C.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

but it's not that simple as take soluble fiber , you must find the good one

Thoughtful post, thank you for sharing.

I'll (very likely) be sharing another thread within the next few days that may help this quandary.

The short version is that I've used a modified version of Karen Hurd's "bean protocol" to de-poison myself from excessive supplement use during this last week. Hurd's emphasis is that the soluble fiber of beans are what allows the liver to decongest itself through the bowels.

As per her suggestion, the basis is 1/2 cup cooked beans, 1/2-1cup of cooked vegetables, & a palm-sized portion of lean meat taken together 3-6x per day... also some nuts taken at a separate time of the day in addition to 3/4 gallon of water throughout the day. No fruit, honey, processed sugar, saturated fat, or caffeine.

The modifications are that I'm consuming the meat raw, eating raw eggs, drinking raw milk, using gentle (1tbsp of coffee grounds strained through a paper filter) coffee enemas, and still consuming black coffee in the morning. Excellent results, I couldn't be happier.

There's several resources regarding this out there, here's one.

 

[Bluebell]

Thanks for your sharing your valuable experience @Twohandsondeck!

What are your favourite recipes/methods for making your bean or bean & vegetable concoctions?

Do you soak your seeds before eating?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Thanks for your sharing your valuable experience @Twohandsondeck!

What are your favourite recipes/methods for making your bean or bean & vegetable concoctions?

Do you soak your seeds before eating?

Recipes? Is that Spanish?

Ha, I just put water in pots, bring it to a boil, and then add the ingredients like a simpleton. I'll keep beans covered on a '2' (one notch above simmer) for 50-120 minutes, whatever time constraint fits best... and vegetables will be kept covered on a '1' for 25-40 minutes. If I'm cooking the meat, I'll add the meat to the vegetable pot whenever I'm planning to turn the heat off within 5-8 minutes.

Soaking the seeds seems to make them easier on the gut, but lately I haven't bothered with this practice much.

Since the time of this post I've replaced the seeds with nut butters (almond and sesame seed) and added several extra servings of cooked vegetables, namely kale and red cabbage.

 

[Bluebell]

Ah, a fellow simpleton! That's my style, chucking things in pots and seeing what happens. All sounds very do-able!

 

[youngsinatra]

I think I need to up my fiber, again. I recently started taking thyroid (successfully) and it really jump started my liver/gallbladder to squeeze out a lot of bile, and I think I need more fiber to mop
these stored toxins up.

In the last 1-2 months I mainly ate basmati rice, lean meats, some olive oil or refined coconut oil and peeled apples, pears, bananas, kiwi, cherries.

But… I find (peeled) fruit fibers or mushrooms are not enough. Eating mushrooms too regularly also feel like they are drying me out (less digestive juices, joint pain, dry mouth) so I don’t use them anymore.

I need either oat fiber or beans to get really good bulky stool. Otherwise my bile travels through my gut too fast and dark-brown/green-ish liquid stool is the result.

I also think that too much unbound bile sometimes gives detox reaction, likely by being recirculated into the blood via enterohepatic circulation.

I‘ll reincorporate 1-2 cups of black beans. And keep y‘all updated.

 

[moa]

The modifications are that I'm consuming the meat raw, eating raw eggs, drinking raw milk, using gentle (1tbsp of coffee grounds strained through a paper filter) coffee enemas, and still consuming black coffee in the morning

with raw eggs, be careful of biotin deficiency.

I have done enemas as occasional reset, but regular daily enemas, I'm wondering if they interfere with the goal of building a well balance microbiote, maybe they don't, but since colon health also require butyrate produced by bacteria, don't enemas too often interfere with that ?

maybe the balance of benefits is in favor of enemas anyway ?

I'm also thinking beans (and maybe even almonds and nuts) are not as bad if you can digest them. the main complaint comes from fiber, that's only when you have very messed up gut, and the anti nutrients like phytate. phytate do waste minerals like zinc, that's why you need strong digestion to benefit (high stomach acid, lots of bile and pancreatic enzymes). i wonder if phytate can help with getting rid of excess metals like iron, in time. cause Ray has spoken against excessive iron but excepting bleeding, the body has no other way to get rid of iron, and that's very unusual.

"
Phytic acid binds to any free iron or other minerals (even heavy metals such as mercury, lead and cadmium) in the blood, which are then eliminated through the kidneys. Phytic acid removes only excess or unbound minerals, not mineral ions already attached to proteins.

Phytic acid is such a potent—but safe—iron and mineral chelator that it may someday replace intravenous chelation therapy such as the mineral-chelator EDTA or iron-binding drugs such as desferrioxamine (Desferal).
"

IRON: TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING

This page contains the article- Iron: Too Much of a Good Thing http://www.chiro.org/Graphics_Box_NUTRITION/FULL/Iron_Too_Much_of_a_Good_Thing.shtml

chiro.org

 

[Twohandsondeck]

I have done enemas as occasional reset, but regular daily enemas, I'm wondering if they interfere with the goal of building a well balance microbiote, maybe they don't, but since colon health also require butyrate produced by bacteria, don't enemas too often interfere with that ?

maybe the balance of benefits is in favor of enemas anyway ?

It's possible that they are counterintuitive to building a microbiome foundation. My ongoing assessment of the coffee enema these days is dependent upon my performance in the gym. If I can't get stronger because I'm not holding onto enough food, then I will start to consider less frequency and/or potency. It's only been less than a week of a daily coffee enema practice though, so time will tell. The benefits are still fantastic as of today.

I'm also thinking beans (and maybe even almonds and nuts) are not as bad if you can digest them. the main complaint comes from fiber, that's only when you have very messed up gut, and the anti nutrients like phytate. phytate do waste minerals like zinc, that's why you need strong digestion to benefit (high stomach acid, lots of bile and pancreatic enzymes). i wonder if phytate can help with getting rid of excess metals like iron, in time. cause Ray has spoken against excessive iron but excepting bleeding, the body has no other way to get rid of iron, and that's very unusual.

"
Phytic acid binds to any free iron or other minerals (even heavy metals such as mercury, lead and cadmium) in the blood, which are then eliminated through the kidneys. Phytic acid removes only excess or unbound minerals, not mineral ions already attached to proteins.

Phytic acid is such a potent—but safe—iron and mineral chelator that it may someday replace intravenous chelation therapy such as the mineral-chelator EDTA or iron-binding drugs such as desferrioxamine (Desferal).
"

As with all naturally-ocurring compounds, I've assumed that phytates aren't necessarily bad, but rather serve a function. It seems that all of the food that's good for us has an affinity for attracting heavier stuff (i.e. heavy metals) which, in turn, lightens our load.

Luke 11:34-36
[34] The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
[35] Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
[36] If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.