Estrogenic Facial Edema VS Androgenic Facial Appearence And Structure

[Xemnoraq]

Hello all! This is my first actual post on the forum here, however i have been around on the forum for about 3 years as i am going on my third year of PUFA depletion, i watch Ray's, Georgi's, and Danny's videos alot and do alot of my own research to learn as much as i can,

I wanted to share some results with everyone that ive achieved as i don't see much people posting pictures on here actually giving proof to their testimonies and changes while on a peat diet,

For me one issue i always had was the struggle with the quote on quote "moonface" i have always been extremely athletic, always had a 6 pack low body fat however my face used to look extremely bloated and estrogenic, i used to consume 100+ grams of PUFA per day and when i discovered Ray Peat, i cut that down to about 0.5 per day,

Here is some results in terms of changes in my facial appearence not just from PUFA depletion but from a Peat inspired diet in all of its regards, not only have i seen reduction in bloating and the estrogenic appearence, my face i feel is progressing more towards an androgenic looking state, my bone structure such as cheekbones and jawline i feel has become more pronounced, and this reminds more of looking at the posts showing how androgenic hormones and vitamins such as pregnenalone and vitamin K affect bone structure especially in the face


So while looking at the pictures here's some things to keep in mind, the pictures where my face was really bloated were all from 2017, the pictures with results now were in 2019, however most of them were taken in winter, with the exception of the last ones with me in a white tshirt those were taken today! and the other pictures where my face is large in one and the one put beside it is slim. But yes some things to keep in mind, i still struggle with health issues mainly ibs/high serotonin and estrogen issues is what i believe i still have dark circles under my eyes and some loose skin and wrinkles on the forehead from stress that are not visible in the pictures that much,

In all pictures you can see i was always fit and low body fat decent muscle mass its just in the ones from 2017 you can see even with being very toned i still had a very chubby looking face, the reason i wanted to post so many pictures is because im always looking for testimonies on here, and i see alot of people talking about great results but ive rarely seen people actually post pictures proving anything, so i wanted to provide some for myself so hopefully it can help some people out when questioning some changes to be seen on a peat diet.

So 2017 i was about 175-180 pounds, and fastforward to 2019 in winter i dropped down really low from stress (aka PUFA burning?) And bad ibs to 145 pounds, since then im about 170 pounds now in summer but even with bringing my weight back up close to what it was before in 2017, my face has still retained its shape without going towards the moon face.

So hopefully providing actual pictures in regards to a Peat style diet and PUFA depletion diet helps in terms of showing results, if anyone has any questions let me know i would also be curious to see if anyone else has achieved some really great results! Thanks again cheers!

 

[TheBeard]

Good progress.

I think you would gain even more facial esthetics from doing some neck strengthening, it looks rather thin.

Check out some tutorials online

 

[Xemnoraq]

Good progress.

I think you would gain even more facial esthetics from doing some neck strengthening, it looks rather thin.

Check out some tutorials online

Interesting... im open to new ideas how does neck strengthening change facial features? Couldnt you do that just by doing powerlifting like squats and deadlifts etc shrugs?

 

[shine]

Interesting... im open to new ideas how does neck strengthening change facial features? Couldnt you do that just by doing powerlifting like squats and deadlifts etc shrugs?

 

[steel_reserve]

I have a chunky face. I've been peaty for years but I haven't made any progress. My face and my belly keep getting bigger.

 

[redsun]

Interesting... im open to new ideas how does neck strengthening change facial features? Couldnt you do that just by doing powerlifting like squats and deadlifts etc shrugs?

The sternocleidomastoid muscle picture here is very helpful for aesthetics. If you grow this out it will play a big part in thickening the neck. It also goes up to the back of the jawline and improve the face as well indirectly.

 

[Xemnoraq]

I have a chunky face. I've been peaty for years but I haven't made any progress. My face and my belly keep getting bigger.

How long roughly? Whats your daily PUFA intake? Ive also heard based on Ray's quote it can take more than 4 years to really deplete PUFA, so it makes me question if it might take alot longer for some people to really even out their fatty acid profile, whats your gut health like? And have you ever tested for any iron overload or heavy metals?

 

[Xemnoraq]

Ih

View attachment 14286

The sternocleidomastoid muscle picture here is very helpful for aesthetics. If you grow this out it will play a big part in thickening the neck. It also goes up to the back of the jawline and improve the face as well indirectly.

Oh i see! That actually makes alot more sense now with the diagram, usually when i start weightlifting in the winter again my neck grows alot but im assuming theres some basic day to day things you can do instead as well

 

[redsun]

Ih

Oh i see! That actually makes alot more sense now with the diagram, usually when i start weightlifting in the winter again my neck grows alot but im assuming theres some basic day to day things you can do instead as well

You can look up how to do neck curls. This guy is a very good youtuber, perhaps you have heard of him:



What do you mean "When I start weightlifting in the winter" ? Do you not do weight training year round?

 

[baccheion]

Cortisol thins the neck. Androgens do the opposite. Poor muscular in the face/neck area implies lower testosterone/DHT/androgens and maybe higher cortisol/estrogen.

 

[Xemnoraq]

You can look up how to do neck curls. This guy is a very good youtuber, perhaps you have heard of him:



What do you mean "When I start weightlifting in the winter" ? Do you not do weight training year round?

No i do parkour in the summer then when winter hits i usually do weight training

 

[Regina]

Hello all! This is my first actual post on the forum here, however i have been around on the forum for about 3 years as i am going on my third year of PUFA depletion, i watch Ray's, Georgi's, and Danny's videos alot and do alot of my own research to learn as much as i can,

I wanted to share some results with everyone that ive achieved as i don't see much people posting pictures on here actually giving proof to their testimonies and changes while on a peat diet,

For me one issue i always had was the struggle with the quote on quote "moonface" i have always been extremely athletic, always had a 6 pack low body fat however my face used to look extremely bloated and estrogenic, i used to consume 100+ grams of PUFA per day and when i discovered Ray Peat, i cut that down to about 0.5 per day,

Here is some results in terms of changes in my facial appearence not just from PUFA depletion but from a Peat inspired diet in all of its regards, not only have i seen reduction in bloating and the estrogenic appearence, my face i feel is progressing more towards an androgenic looking state, my bone structure such as cheekbones and jawline i feel has become more pronounced, and this reminds more of looking at the posts showing how androgenic hormones and vitamins such as pregnenalone and vitamin K affect bone structure especially in the face


So while looking at the pictures here's some things to keep in mind, the pictures where my face was really bloated were all from 2017, the pictures with results now were in 2019, however most of them were taken in winter, with the exception of the last ones with me in a white tshirt those were taken today! and the other pictures where my face is large in one and the one put beside it is slim. But yes some things to keep in mind, i still struggle with health issues mainly ibs/high serotonin and estrogen issues is what i believe i still have dark circles under my eyes and some loose skin and wrinkles on the forehead from stress that are not visible in the pictures that much,

In all pictures you can see i was always fit and low body fat decent muscle mass its just in the ones from 2017 you can see even with being very toned i still had a very chubby looking face, the reason i wanted to post so many pictures is because im always looking for testimonies on here, and i see alot of people talking about great results but ive rarely seen people actually post pictures proving anything, so i wanted to provide some for myself so hopefully it can help some people out when questioning some changes to be seen on a peat diet.

So 2017 i was about 175-180 pounds, and fastforward to 2019 in winter i dropped down really low from stress (aka PUFA burning?) And bad ibs to 145 pounds, since then im about 170 pounds now in summer but even with bringing my weight back up close to what it was before in 2017, my face has still retained its shape without going towards the moon face.

So hopefully providing actual pictures in regards to a Peat style diet and PUFA depletion diet helps in terms of showing results, if anyone has any questions let me know i would also be curious to see if anyone else has achieved some really great results! Thanks again cheers!

I think the last set (white shirt) is the best by far. You look the most relaxed, natural and interesting. I wouldn't worry about your neck. Really think the natural look suits you best. jmho

 

[Vinny]

Yes, great changes, congrats! Thanks for posting!

 

[Hans]

Hello all! This is my first actual post on the forum here, however i have been around on the forum for about 3 years as i am going on my third year of PUFA depletion, i watch Ray's, Georgi's, and Danny's videos alot and do alot of my own research to learn as much as i can,

I wanted to share some results with everyone that ive achieved as i don't see much people posting pictures on here actually giving proof to their testimonies and changes while on a peat diet,

For me one issue i always had was the struggle with the quote on quote "moonface" i have always been extremely athletic, always had a 6 pack low body fat however my face used to look extremely bloated and estrogenic, i used to consume 100+ grams of PUFA per day and when i discovered Ray Peat, i cut that down to about 0.5 per day,

Here is some results in terms of changes in my facial appearence not just from PUFA depletion but from a Peat inspired diet in all of its regards, not only have i seen reduction in bloating and the estrogenic appearence, my face i feel is progressing more towards an androgenic looking state, my bone structure such as cheekbones and jawline i feel has become more pronounced, and this reminds more of looking at the posts showing how androgenic hormones and vitamins such as pregnenalone and vitamin K affect bone structure especially in the face


So while looking at the pictures here's some things to keep in mind, the pictures where my face was really bloated were all from 2017, the pictures with results now were in 2019, however most of them were taken in winter, with the exception of the last ones with me in a white tshirt those were taken today! and the other pictures where my face is large in one and the one put beside it is slim. But yes some things to keep in mind, i still struggle with health issues mainly ibs/high serotonin and estrogen issues is what i believe i still have dark circles under my eyes and some loose skin and wrinkles on the forehead from stress that are not visible in the pictures that much,

In all pictures you can see i was always fit and low body fat decent muscle mass its just in the ones from 2017 you can see even with being very toned i still had a very chubby looking face, the reason i wanted to post so many pictures is because im always looking for testimonies on here, and i see alot of people talking about great results but ive rarely seen people actually post pictures proving anything, so i wanted to provide some for myself so hopefully it can help some people out when questioning some changes to be seen on a peat diet.

So 2017 i was about 175-180 pounds, and fastforward to 2019 in winter i dropped down really low from stress (aka PUFA burning?) And bad ibs to 145 pounds, since then im about 170 pounds now in summer but even with bringing my weight back up close to what it was before in 2017, my face has still retained its shape without going towards the moon face.

So hopefully providing actual pictures in regards to a Peat style diet and PUFA depletion diet helps in terms of showing results, if anyone has any questions let me know i would also be curious to see if anyone else has achieved some really great results! Thanks again cheers!

Cool man, definitely great progress! Don't worry about your neck dude, it's quite in proportion to your physique, few people want a hulk looking neck where you can't distinguish between a head and a neck. That's bad aesthetics if you ask me. It's fine if your neck develops from weight training (indirectly), but I wouldn't recommend training it directly. Parkour also works the neck a lot, so it's not like you have a weak or underdeveloped neck.

 

[OceanSpray]

Kudos to having the balls to post pictures. It’s a pretty good progress I’d say.

But hey man, why did you chose to become unemployable with that neck tattoo? Being poor won’t be any good for your androgens in the long run.

 

[Xemnoraq]

I think the last set (white shirt) is the best by far. You look the most relaxed, natural and interesting. I wouldn't worry about your neck. Really think the natural look suits you best. jmho

Thankyou i appreciate that ! At this current point in time ive noticed my cortisol or stress levels if you want to call it feel alot lower now, i feel as though im finally starting to get the hang of my biology, and i know users like haidut or (Georgi) have said the "moonface" or estrogenic bloat is caused by high cortisol or some degree of insulin resistance as cortisol directly stimulates the aromatase enzyme aparently, makes sense when you think about it because many women who take the contraceptive or during time of the month become very bloated in the face i notice, and i have rarely seen any high cortisol stressed out males who didnt have moonface either,

Yes, great changes, congrats! Thanks for posting!

Thankyou man!!

Cool man, definitely great progress! Don't worry about your neck dude, it's quite in proportion to your physique, few people want a hulk looking neck where you can't distinguish between a head and a neck. That's bad aesthetics if you ask me. It's fine if your neck develops from weight training (indirectly), but I wouldn't recommend training it directly. Parkour also works the neck a lot, so it's not like you have a weak or underdeveloped neck.

Ahaha! I got a kick out of the hulk thing but thanks man! I never really thought my neck was disproportionate either i mean i do have a really long neck so it is on the thinner side but usually isnt an issue when i fill out to a healthy weight when i was 145 pounds it was definitly noticable it was interesting what they shared about how your neck changes facial structure however i assume this could just be achieved by naturally increasing androgens and just regular working out, if you wanted to take it a step further im sure then the neck specific exersizes would help but oh man parkour destroys your entire body full body workout itll leave ya crawling up stairs after ahaha

 

[Hans]

Ahaha! I got a kick out of the hulk thing but thanks man! I never really thought my neck was disproportionate either i mean i do have a really long neck so it is on the thinner side but usually isnt an issue when i fill out to a healthy weight when i was 145 pounds it was definitly noticable it was interesting what they shared about how your neck changes facial structure however i assume this could just be achieved by naturally increasing androgens and just regular working out, if you wanted to take it a step further im sure then the neck specific exersizes would help but oh man parkour destroys your entire body full body workout itll leave ya crawling up stairs after ahaha

Haha, ok, no I couldn't even notice that your neck was "really long"... and it doesn't seem to be on the thin side either. Yeah, I also did some parkour in highschool and I freakin' loved it! I stopped for a while after going to college and focused more on weight training as I didn't have the time or energy for both... but I started getting back into some tricking a while back and also started integrating some calisthenics into my training again. And I have to say, I enjoy being able to do both with no downsides. :)

Kudos to having the balls to post pictures. It’s a pretty good progress I’d say.

But hey man, why did you chose to become unemployable with that neck tattoo? Being poor won’t be any good for your androgens in the long run.

Why work for others when you can work for yourself? :) ThenX is a good example of a successful entrepreneur with tats and there are many others.

 

[steel_reserve]

How long roughly? Whats your daily PUFA intake? Ive also heard based on Ray's quote it can take more than 4 years to really deplete PUFA, so it makes me question if it might take alot longer for some people to really even out their fatty acid profile, whats your gut health like? And have you ever tested for any iron overload or heavy metals?

Not sure what my levels are like. I don't eat fried food and rarely eat snack cakes. I grew up on home cooked meals that were rarely fried.

Did the Endo song and dance with clomid because I was so tired. The clomid raised my test from low to low normal and I was even more tired so I quit taking it. (Erections were on fleek tho.)

Switched to Mexican Coke and lost four pounds in a week. My wife said my belly doesn't stick out like it used to. She was right. My belly was gone. The thing I had noticed was I had insane itching in the roof of my mouth that week.

Belly slowly came back. What's weird is you can see my ribs and thigh gap but my belly goes straight out in the middle.

Sorry for jacking your thread

 

[RPDiciple]

This is cool. How is your days looking foodwise?

 

[rmgwm]

Hello all! This is my first actual post on the forum here, however i have been around on the forum for about 3 years as i am going on my third year of PUFA depletion, i watch Ray's, Georgi's, and Danny's videos alot and do alot of my own research to learn as much as i can,

I wanted to share some results with everyone that ive achieved as i don't see much people posting pictures on here actually giving proof to their testimonies and changes while on a peat diet,

For me one issue i always had was the struggle with the quote on quote "moonface" i have always been extremely athletic, always had a 6 pack low body fat however my face used to look extremely bloated and estrogenic, i used to consume 100+ grams of PUFA per day and when i discovered Ray Peat, i cut that down to about 0.5 per day,

Here is some results in terms of changes in my facial appearence not just from PUFA depletion but from a Peat inspired diet in all of its regards, not only have i seen reduction in bloating and the estrogenic appearence, my face i feel is progressing more towards an androgenic looking state, my bone structure such as cheekbones and jawline i feel has become more pronounced, and this reminds more of looking at the posts showing how androgenic hormones and vitamins such as pregnenalone and vitamin K affect bone structure especially in the face


So while looking at the pictures here's some things to keep in mind, the pictures where my face was really bloated were all from 2017, the pictures with results now were in 2019, however most of them were taken in winter, with the exception of the last ones with me in a white tshirt those were taken today! and the other pictures where my face is large in one and the one put beside it is slim. But yes some things to keep in mind, i still struggle with health issues mainly ibs/high serotonin and estrogen issues is what i believe i still have dark circles under my eyes and some loose skin and wrinkles on the forehead from stress that are not visible in the pictures that much,

In all pictures you can see i was always fit and low body fat decent muscle mass its just in the ones from 2017 you can see even with being very toned i still had a very chubby looking face, the reason i wanted to post so many pictures is because im always looking for testimonies on here, and i see alot of people talking about great results but ive rarely seen people actually post pictures proving anything, so i wanted to provide some for myself so hopefully it can help some people out when questioning some changes to be seen on a peat diet.

So 2017 i was about 175-180 pounds, and fastforward to 2019 in winter i dropped down really low from stress (aka PUFA burning?) And bad ibs to 145 pounds, since then im about 170 pounds now in summer but even with bringing my weight back up close to what it was before in 2017, my face has still retained its shape without going towards the moon face.

So hopefully providing actual pictures in regards to a Peat style diet and PUFA depletion diet helps in terms of showing results, if anyone has any questions let me know i would also be curious to see if anyone else has achieved some really great results! Thanks again cheers!

Before looking at the pictures I told myself to not look at the dates so I had no idea which were "before" and which were "after", otherwise there would be some bias when looking at the pictures. I could not tell the difference between the pictures even after staring for a bit (sounds gay man).

This is good news because it appears that you aged well since I literally couldn't tell which was before and after. Maybe not what you want to hear since I did not notice anything about facial structure difference.

That being said, your face doesn't look estrogenic, or moon-face to me at all. I'm actually not sure what anyone is talking about when they say progress. I'm not sure there is any progress to be made. Fluid retention in the face and/or moonface is typically a sign of high cortisol, estrogen, and water retention, I don't see that in your face at all.