Help! My Facial Features Changed From Taking Progestorone, Pregnenlone And Dhea

[TheBeard]

From what I understand, the high concentration makes the balls shut down T production. You want the balls to react to whole body T, not the excessive amounts that would be present where it is applied.

As already stated multiple times on this forum, I've been applying massive T doses to the scrotum for 9 months, quit cold turkey, and after 1 months of stopping I was back to exactly my pre experiment natural levels.
So no, testosterone base cream applied to the scrotum doesn't shut you down like esters do.
Even after esters most recover just fine, it just takes longer.

 

[TheBeard]

Maybe slight Estrogen is also a stress hormone, and while it may be androgenic in low quantity, in large amounts it is not.

Estrogens activates androgen receptors and has virilizing effects in any quantity, providing the testosterone remains proportionnaly higher.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

As already stated multiple times on this forum, I've been applying massive T doses to the scrotum for 9 months, quit cold turkey, and after 1 months of stopping I was back to exactly my pre experiment natural levels.
So no, testosterone base cream applied to the scrotum doesn't shut you down like esters do.
Even after esters most recover just fine, it just takes longer.

But why scrotum? Anywhere else you don't shut down endogenous T assuming you don't use too much.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Estrogens activates androgen receptors and has virilizing effects in any quantity, providing the testosterone remains proportionnaly higher.

Key word being proportionally. His estrogen is probably so high he would need toxic levels of T for that to happen.

 

[Cristiano6180]

If your doctor prescribed the progesterone - the odds of it being a synthetic progestin are extraordinarily high. From what I've heard, all the synethetic progestins are actually highly estrogenic. Progesterone, bio-identical progesterone, is a terrific aromatase inhibitor but will temporarily suppress endogenous testosterone production. DHEA is also nearly always prescribed in massive doses which also convert to estrogen. I'd start by examining your sources for the hormones you're taking - and then ditch them all. The symptoms you're describing are very clearly those of estrogen excess. If you want to help pull your body back in the right direction, start with t3 and pregnenolone.

 

[SonOfEurope]

If your doctor prescribed the progesterone - the odds of it being a synthetic progestin are extraordinarily high. From what I've heard, all the synethetic progestins are actually highly estrogenic. Progesterone, bio-identical progesterone, is a terrific aromatase inhibitor but will temporarily suppress endogenous testosterone production. DHEA is also nearly always prescribed in massive doses which also convert to estrogen. I'd start by examining your sources for the hormones you're taking - and then ditch them all. The symptoms you're describing are very clearly those of estrogen excess. If you want to help pull your body back in the right direction, start with t3 and pregnenolone.

+1.

 

[TheBeard]

I have uesed bio identical Progesterone cream along my usual testosterone cream, it makes me feel lethargic and non-dynamic mentally and physically.
I wouldn't be surprised if it were feminizing in the long run.

 

[Collden]

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone
"While men do naturally produce progesterone, and can sometimes benefit from using it, it is not a male hormone."

Why the hell would you take Progesterone as a man? Its like a woman taking Testosterone and not something Peat endorses.

 

[Frankdee20]

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone
"While men do naturally produce progesterone, and can sometimes benefit from using it, it is not a male hormone."

Why the hell would you take Progesterone as a man? Its like a woman taking Testosterone and not something Peat endorses.

Can you then make the case for saying men shouldn’t use Pregnenalone as most converts to Progesterone orally ?

 

[Collden]

Can you then make the case for saying men shouldn’t use Pregnenalone as most converts to Progesterone orally ?

Pregnenalone is a basic precursor hormone for both men and women and can be converted to androgens so you could argue it can be useful for men, but I don't know about taking it orally.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

I thought Peat advocated Progesterone for all. "Systematic health hormone"

 

[JDreamer]

Progesterone makes me feel way more relaxed in social settings, not to mention easier to chat people up while I'm on it. All the estrogen detox symptoms finally subsided after about a month. Erections are fine. Still need to add in a smidge of DHEA though.

 

[SonOfEurope]

I thought Peat advocated Progesterone for all. "Systematic health hormone"

It is the most protective substance the human body can possibly produce. It you had a car crash and took brain damage progesterone (and in large quantities ) plus adequate nutrition and higher co2 would be your best friends.

It's extremely concentrated in the brain. Especially of younger people and it's decline, and of its anti exitatory metabolites has an almost linear parallel to the decline in cognitive growth as the year pass.

Without some progesterone even the testicles fall prey to destruction by Estradiol, at a fundamental level progesterone is the "nexus" between androgens and estrogens, between Aldosterone and cortisol - that keeps a balance of function in the body.

Peat has recommended, primarily, healing the thyroid, as with that and adequate nutrition and light, Cholesterol will follow the most harmonious path of steroidogenesis with Pregnenolone, Progesterone, and to a lesser extent Testosterone being dominant over Cortisol, Aldosterone and Estrogen.

As for actually supplementing it... He's said women will of course directly benefit from large doses as its their dominant hormone and impedes the accumulation of E2 which must be minimal in its monthly spike for their reproductive nature, but damage that begins in the thyroid can throw this out of balance, the thyroid promotes progesterone, and progesterone heals the thyroid, so a woman can use several tens of mgs to start healing and maintain it if they feel comfortable.

For men,... And I myself have gone against this advice (but it did me nothing but good, no facial change other than masculine maturation, no loss of libido or anything and I've proven I can cold turkey any moment ) by taking 28mg a day for two years with only a minor break to help me come off some big-pharma monstrosities they had me on... Success!

But even Dr. Peat has said that while men naturally produce it we shouldn't take it past 3 or 4mg a day just because of its opposition to the Androgenicity of DHT and it's anesthetic effects on the ****...

But this is temporary, I'm still scratching my head at how a guy's head and face shape could change from a few months of P4... You are just providing yourself a very mild androgen (progesterone is itself an extremely weak androgen) that tanks Estrogen and opposes DHT in large quantities but that is all back to norm when you stop, Progesterone does not suppress the HPA axis and in fact will protect testicular cells, even if it keeps your libido in "hibernation" while you are actively taking it past a certain dose.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

It is the most protective substance the human body can possibly produce. It you had a car crash and took brain damage progesterone (and in large quantities ) plus adequate nutrition and higher co2 would be your best friends.

It's extremely concentrated in the brain. Especially of younger people and it's decline, and of its anti exitatory metabolites has an almost linear parallel to the decline in cognitive growth as the year pass.

Without some progesterone even the testicles fall prey to destruction by Estradiol, at a fundamental level progesterone is the "nexus" between androgens and estrogens, between Aldosterone and cortisol - that keeps a balance of function in the body.

Peat has recommended, primarily, healing the thyroid, as with that and adequate nutrition and light, Cholesterol will follow the most harmonious path of steroidogenesis with Pregnenolone, Progesterone, and to a lesser extent Testosterone being dominant over Cortisol, Aldosterone and Estrogen.

As for actually supplementing it... He's said women will of course directly benefit from large doses as its their dominant hormone and impedes the accumulation of E2 which must be minimal in its monthly spike for their reproductive nature, but damage that begins in the thyroid can throw this out of balance, the thyroid promotes progesterone, and progesterone heals the thyroid, so a woman can use several tens of mgs to start healing and maintain it if they feel comfortable.

For men,... And I myself have gone against this advice (but it did me nothing but good, no facial change other than masculine maturation, no loss of libido or anything and I've proven I can cold turkey any moment ) by taking 28mg a day for two years with only a minor break to help me come off some big-pharma monstrosities they had me on... Success!

But even Dr. Peat has said that while men naturally produce it we shouldn't take it past 3 or 4mg a day just because of its opposition to the Androgenicity of DHT and it's anesthetic effects on the ****...

But this is temporary, I'm still scratching my head at how a guy's head and face shape could change from a few months of P4... You are just providing yourself a very mild androgen (progesterone is itself an extremely weak androgen) that tanks Estrogen and opposes DHT in large quantities but that is all back to norm when you stop, Progesterone does not suppress the HPA axis and in fact will protect testicular cells, even if it keeps your libido in "hibernation" while you are actively taking it past a certain dose.

Maybe he stopped being Hypothyroid.

 

[JDreamer]

Do I even need to add DHEA if I'm taking Progesterone, but also working out 3-4 days a week?

 

[SonOfEurope]

Do I even need to add DHEA if I'm taking Progesterone, but also working out 3-4 days a week?

Wouldn't hurt to,

Progesterone antagonizes cortisol and prevents muscle and bone loss... DHEA must be in a low ratio to progesterone, would provide a source of T/DHT.

I've been doing a big ratio of 12:1, 28mg/2mg... Just keep the dhea under 20mgs and progesterone can be as high 60-70mg for enhanced muscle and bone anabolicity.

Within a few months (if you work out, rest and eat properly) what will stand out is the muscle gain in the shoulders and back/neck - the muscles that require the highest anabolic enviroment to reach their potential.

 

[golder]

Wouldn't hurt to,

Progesterone antagonizes cortisol and prevents muscle and bone loss... DHEA must be in a low ratio to progesterone, would provide a source of T/DHT.

I've been doing a big ratio of 12:1, 28mg/2mg... Just keep the dhea under 20mgs and progesterone can be as high 60-70mg for enhanced muscle and bone anabolicity.

Within a few months (if you work out, rest and eat properly) what will stand out is the muscle gain in the shoulders and back/neck - the muscles that require the highest anabolic enviroment to reach their potential.

A lot of different ratios beee

progesteroneHEA
12:1
28:2
60-70:<20

it’s probably me but can you make this a bit more clear as I value your opinion and I’m of a similar age/build/goals.

Do you apply these topically or orally, and how many times per day? Thanks!

 

[SonOfEurope]

For me,

28:2 for me, but I will lower the progesterone soon so it will be 12:2.

I advice you keep the p4 higher than the DHEA at least 4:1 to help avoid excess aromatization.

Progesterone alone can make you bulk up, at high doses of 45 or 50mg, but it does, I confirm, oppose DHT in those ranges when alone, it sedates you strongly (makes you sleep more) require a lot more sodium and sugars and is so anesthetic it WILL make you numb. Even somewhat emotionally numb.

In the favour of P4 to Dhea, anything from 30:2 to 5:1 as long as you don't exceed DHEA past 50mg, only advice because dhea can aromatize strongly and the "point" of adding a smaller portion of it to progesterone Is to have the anti-catabolism and anabolism of progesterone opposing cortisol in muscle and bones and enhancing recovery by increased thyroid and calorie/mineral metabolism and use, while the DHEA, much lower in ratio, provides a fountain for lower Androgens that oppose the tanking of DHT and oppose it's excessive sedation.

It could be:

90mg progesterone+
4.5 mg DHEA

(20:1 ratio)

-Or-
48mg progesterone+
12 mg DHEA

(4:1 ratio)

Perhaps in my personal case I'm a little strict on DHEA because when I did 10mg a day for a week I had some estrogen side effects (bloat puffy nipples) I could have increased the p4 but it would have been too much sedation.

Experiment and see what works for you. If you want numbers, assuming you are 150lbs and relatively lean, able to ingest 3000 calories and sleep 9 hours per night then the number is give you is a 5:1. Something like 25mg progest-e and 5mg DHEA. I advice you divide the progesterone through the day.... The DHEA is up to you it has a longer half life.

Only keep in mind that if you do an anabolic substance mix, you need to fuel the engines, it will make need more sleep maybe an afternoon nap, take it, maybe you'll crave saltier foods then eat them.

That's it from me, best of luck

 

[Jib]

@Mr.Tayto

Hang in there. I can relate about having your face ruined. Trust me. I've gotten extremely depressed about it. Mine was from having all 4 wisdom teeth removed. Over years after having them removed, my face became much, much less masculine. Eyes also became closer together and I ended up needing glasses and having bad vision. It sounds far fetched but it isn't. Removing wisdom teeth changes the structural support in the face, and the bones can recede when there's no longer any teeth there keeping them in place. Also known as "facial collapse."

Different causes, same results. I'll also say that I went through an even worse trauma with circumcision (male genital mutilation) and coming to terms with that. It's a lot. It really is.

Loss of sexual appeal/loss of ability to enjoy sex/etc. I could go on. A medication I was on causing severe premature ejaculation that I still have not recovered from a year after discontinuing it.

I'm saying this to let you know you're not alone. I'm in a very similar position. Some days are better than others and some days I am not even bothered about these things at all. There is a lot to the idea of getting stuck in your head. For some people it's grief over losing loved ones. The pain of loss can create a loop that replays over and over and over again every day and it's just torture.

From a psychological standpoint, I'd advise you to consider all this. There is plenty of hope for that. Let's play devil's advocate and say this is permanent -- then what? You can psychologically overcome this. I guarantee it.

One thing I'd advise is not talking about it with people. Simply don't. I've brought up issues I have about my looks/face/body etc. and sometimes people will be brutally honest. That is not good for you mentally. Also, if you play it off and genuinely act like you don't care, you'd be surprised how little of a difference it ends up making. The energy you project while walking around and talking to people when you hate yourself and are upset and in grief -- TOTALLY different from the energy you project when you're at peace with yourself and feel confident.

Don't focus so much on the external. And trust me, I know how it goes. Face changed for the worse, can't even have sex and even masturbating alone there is virtually no sensation at all. It's awful if I get stuck in it. But I've had plenty of days I haven't been stuck in it that have been great.

Hang in there dude! Seriously. Never give up on your ability to exercise control over your own mind and emotions. Even if our bodies are not doing what we want. Mind over matter. I really believe that. These days I keep my grief and struggles and anger completely to myself and do my best to project positivity in the world when I'm out and about around other people. It makes a huge difference.

Don't let it get to you. I'll say it again -- I know what it's like to deal with permanent changes and feeling like your looks and body are ruined for life. It's horrible. But don't let it ruin you. Don't let it get to you. It's a trap. A loop. Replaying bad thoughts and feelings. I promise you there is another way. In my own struggles I've seen it as an opportunity to grow spiritually and focus on my state of mind and the energy I'm putting out into the world, as opposed to obsessing about things I have no control over. I have literally attempted suicide over loneliness and hopelessness before as well so I know how hard the struggle can be.

Whatever happens you can not only cope with this but grow beyond it. I really believe that. Best of luck

 

[Texon]

Progesterone is not an exclusive female hormone, a healthy young man's testis producing 1,5 or 2 mg of it per day, released alongside the 5-6mg of testosterone makes that very clear.

I've been on 30mg for two years plus a bit of DHEA and trust me, I've not become more feminine in any way... Quite the contrary.

In fact, without it's presence most of your testosterone would aromatise, Adrenal androgens would take over and wreck havoc... sperm would not mature properly, leydig cells would start dying under E2's toxicity and the DHT loop mechanism would go so out of harmony you would turn into a mess.

This is all secondary to the fact that.... Without progesterone.... You would not even have proper brain function at a fundamental level and adequate brain protection from Estrogen and glutamate anti-gaba exitocxicity and your heart would be compromised.

I warn people to not pass the 5-6mg DHEA per day dose or you'll raise E2 in excess.... Haidut, I am aware... Recommends up to 30mg a day with no less than 150mg Progesterone for Anabolic results but that is if you are actively training heavy and bringing your body to that demand for the androgenic pathway while the progesterone opposes cortisol and reduces aromatase.

Stop taking them go a few weeks and everything will come back to normal, I doubt you irreversibly damaged testicular cells by overdosing dhea. Give it some time and take Low dose aspirin+k2... You'll be alright.

Progesterone is not an exclusive female hormone, a healthy young man's testis producing 1,5 or 2 mg of it per day, released alongside the 5-6mg of testosterone makes that very clear.

I've been on 30mg for two years plus a bit of DHEA and trust me, I've not become more feminine in any way... Quite the contrary.

In fact, without it's presence most of your testosterone would aromatise, Adrenal androgens would take over and wreck havoc... sperm would not mature properly, leydig cells would start dying under E2's toxicity and the DHT loop mechanism would go so out of harmony you would turn into a mess.

This is all secondary to the fact that.... Without progesterone.... You would not even have proper brain function at a fundamental level and adequate brain protection from Estrogen and glutamate anti-gaba exitocxicity and your heart would be compromised.

I warn people to not pass the 5-6mg DHEA per day dose or you'll raise E2 in excess.... Haidut, I am aware... Recommends up to 30mg a day with no less than 150mg Progesterone for Anabolic results but that is if you are actively training heavy and bringing your body to that demand for the androgenic pathway while the progesterone opposes cortisol and reduces aromatase.

Stop taking them go a few weeks and everything will come back to normal, I doubt you irreversibly damaged testicular cells by overdosing dhea. Give it some time and take Low dose aspirin+k2... You'll be alright.

Do you take progesterone topically or orally? Can't imagine 150 mgs per day. Also worth noting k2 increases T all by itself. I agree on the need to be very careful with dhea. I remember from a Peat article an old man was able to reverse his dementia with a combination of progesterone pregnenolone and thyroid.