Pregnenolone vs Progesterone for Back Pain, Endotoxin, Parkinsons Disease

[Soren]

As some on this forum might know my mother suffers from Parkinson's disease which I have been attempting to treat with a number of serotonin blocking substances. Circumstances of the Pandemic and her own disposition have made it very difficult to get her into consistently good habits and treatments and her condition has deteriorated precipitously.

Her two biggest issues at the moment are debilitating back pain and hot flashes. For the purposes of this thread I would like to focus on treating her back pain.

My plan is to treat her with either Pregnenolone and or Progesterone what I need to determine and would like some help on are the following;

Which is better Pregnenolone or Progesterone?

What would be a good starting dose?

Oral vs Topical application?

To expand on my reasoning on Pregnenolone and Progesterone for back pain it is based on a few studies that @haidut posted showed relief from chronic lower back pain with oral treatment of Pregnenolone of 500mg daily.
You can find said study here Pregnenolone Relieves Chronic Low Back Pain (human Study)

This study lends credibility to the theory that endotoxin and serotonin are possibly the causes of lower back pain in some and I have witnessed things that confirm this theory in my mother. When I give her serotonin blocking substances such as cyproheptadine her symptoms of PD and her back pain improve and when she does not take them for a too long a period of time her back pain gets worse.

My mother is very sensitive to any medication or supplementation I would imagine this is due to her greatly lowered metabolism and stressed state brought on by high serotonin so I am weary of giving her too much Pregnenolone or Progesterone however I am aware of the fact that taking too low a dose of Progesterone can often exacerbate symptoms of estrogen dominance, and menopause such as hot flashes etc which has been the same for my mother in the past.

I was thinking about a starting dose topically of 25mg of Pregnenolone topically on her lower back combined with some Magnoil and 5mg of DHEA.

I welcome anyone's comments or suggestions.

Many Thanks

 

[koky]

I only have pansterone - might there be any negative effects with a 20 - 30 mg dose with that much dhea?

 

[Soren]

I only have pansterone - might there be any negative effects with a 20 - 30 mg dose with that much dhea?

I would not be using Panaterone. Yes that would be too much DHEA in my opinion. You should not have more than 5mg.

 

[skuabird]

Pregnenolone helps a lot with my back pain (scoliosis and arthritis + maybe bulging discs). I can get by on very small oral doses (5-10mg) but if I forget for a day or two the pain comes back.

 

[Soren]

Pregnenolone helps a lot with my back pain (scoliosis and arthritis + maybe bulging discs). I can get by on very small oral doses (5-10mg) but if I forget for a day or two the pain comes back.

Thanks for sharing skuabird, have you ever tried applying it topically? My mum also has bulging discs so this is good to know.

 

[mostlylurking]

As some on this forum might know my mother suffers from Parkinson's disease which I have been attempting to treat with a number of serotonin blocking substances. Circumstances of the Pandemic and her own disposition have made it very difficult to get her into consistently good habits and treatments and her condition has deteriorated precipitously.

Her two biggest issues at the moment are debilitating back pain and hot flashes. For the purposes of this thread I would like to focus on treating her back pain.

My plan is to treat her with either Pregnenolone and or Progesterone what I need to determine and would like some help on are the following;

Which is better Pregnenolone or Progesterone?

What would be a good starting dose?

Oral vs Topical application?

To expand on my reasoning on Pregnenolone and Progesterone for back pain it is based on a few studies that @haidut posted showed relief from chronic lower back pain with oral treatment of Pregnenolone of 500mg daily.
You can find said study here Pregnenolone Relieves Chronic Low Back Pain (human Study)

This study lends credibility to the theory that endotoxin and serotonin are possibly the causes of lower back pain in some and I have witnessed things that confirm this theory in my mother. When I give her serotonin blocking substances such as cyproheptadine her symptoms of PD and her back pain improve and when she does not take them for a too long a period of time her back pain gets worse.

My mother is very sensitive to any medication or supplementation I would imagine this is due to her greatly lowered metabolism and stressed state brought on by high serotonin so I am weary of giving her too much Pregnenolone or Progesterone however I am aware of the fact that taking too low a dose of Progesterone can often exacerbate symptoms of estrogen dominance, and menopause such as hot flashes etc which has been the same for my mother in the past.

I was thinking about a starting dose topically of 25mg of Pregnenolone topically on her lower back combined with some Magnoil and 5mg of DHEA.

I welcome anyone's comments or suggestions.

Many Thanks

You may think this is off topic because you asked specifically about pregnenolone and progesterone and I take a pretty high dose of each of them and find them very helpful, but in addition to both of these, I want to suggest that you consider thiamine hcl. Dr. Andreas Costantini treated Parkinson's Disease patients with high dose thiamine hcl with amazing success. Here are some links for your consideration:

Dr. Costantini's website: HIGH-D0SE THIAMINE (HDT) THERAPY for Parkinson's Disease
Dr. Costantini's published papers: Published Study Articles
before and after videos of some of Dr. Costantini's patients: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu
Dr. Costantini's therapy protocol: HDT Therapy

My health was seriously damaged a year ago from taking Bactrim antibiotic (for a bladder infection). It blocked my thiamine function. I hurt all over from inflammation caused by lactic acid build up caused by the thiamine functional blockage. I developed a tremor in my right hand. Although I was taking an optimized dose of thyroid medication, my temperature was a full degree below normal even in the afternoon. I remembered Haidut saying on a show that thiamine knocks out lactic acid. So I tried taking about 300mg of thiamine hcl to see what would happen. Thiamine hcl is considered a very safe supplement. Within 45 minutes all of my pain went away and my temperature went up a full degree to normal 98.6 degrees. I took the 300mg of thiamine hcl 3Xday for maybe a week but then it stopped working as well. So I increased the dose. After another week, I was aware that it had stopped working as well, so I increased the dose again. I stair stepped the dose up in this manner over about 2 months. Then I found Dr. Costantini's website and read about his protocol and learned that I probably needed to be taking 2 grams of thiamine hcl a day, divided into two doses, one in the morning and one at 3:00pm. So I tried that dose and experienced tremendous improvement. I am still taking that dose because it appears that I need it.

I also found Dr. Chandler Marrs video very helpful:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkKmiZkiEPI


I have read that thiamine reduces serotonin. I've also read that it reduces endotoxin. It heals the gut. It is required for the function of the autonomic nervous system, which includes your digestive tract. It is vital for nerve health and also for brain health. It reduces inflammation by playing a vital role in oxidative metabolism so that the end product is carbon dioxide instead of lactic acid. It has given me my life back.

Here's an article about thiamine and serotonin: Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

Here's a link to a study: Thiamine deficiency: selective impairment of the cerebellar serotonergic system - PubMed

Abstract​

To explore the role of thiamine deficiency in synaptic transmission, the high-affinity uptake and release systems for putative neurotransmitters were studied in synaptosomal preparations isolated from the telencephalon, hypothalamus, and cerebellum of rats made thiamine deficient by diet or pyrithiamine. There was significant decrease in the uptake of serotonin by the synaptosomal preparations of the cerebellum. Although thiamine and its phosphorylated forms added in vitro did not restore the decreased serotonin uptake, the administration of the vitamin in vivo resulted in a significant reversibility of the inhibition of serotonin uptake, coinciding with dramatic clinical improvement. The study supports the possibility of an important serotonergic innervation of the cerebellum and suggests a selective involvement of this system in the pathogenesis of some of the neurologic manifestations of thiamine deficiency.

-end-
The uptake of serotonin reduces its amount.

 

[skuabird]

Thanks for sharing skuabird, have you ever tried applying it topically? My mum also has bulging discs so this is good to know.

I haven't tried it topically but I am interested in that and will in the future. (I empty out capsules and dab the powder with my finger and stick it under my tongue- I wonder if I can mix the powder in an oil to apply topically?)