DHEA + Pregnenolone, Oral Instead Of Topical?

[ThinkPerceive]

I've been going over the DHEA+pregnenolone threads with great interest. But I'm finding mixed or contradictory information when I look into making an oral version.

My girlfriend is just not going to do drops, and making capsules is the way to go for her. Because it's oral how do the amounts change to be roughly equivalent to Haidut's Pansterone for example, I'm thinking 5mg DHEA and 50mg pregnenolone, 2x/day (more times per day, the less likely it'll happen - above all I want this EASY for her). She's pretty healthy, a mom in her 40's, has a fair bit of stress.

It's the pregnenolone info especially that confuses me. Studies say that oral pregnenolone has excellent absorption - which would suggest just 5mg per dose would be fine. But Dr. Peat suggests 100mg/day. Other studies suggest that the low AND high dose increases allopregnenolone which is Not Good.

So, in a general way, how to best dose the ingredients orally instead of topically, to get a comparable effect? I know getting personal diagnosis isn't an option, and I'm mostly looking for insight anyway, not a prescription :)

Thank you!

(PS part of this was posted incorrectly elsewhere - oops I'm still getting the hang of it all)

Today at 2:04 PM

 

[Blossom]

Welcome to the forum ThinkPerceive.

This is the pregnenolone powder that I use.

Pregnenolone

You could put it into capsules for your girlfriend but honestly it's pretty tasteless so I just put some directly on my tongue and wash it down with something to drink.

I don't know of a good dhea powder but someone else might have a recommended source. If not you can look on forum member @Dan Wich's site. He has an extensive list of supplements with the least additives.

www.toxinless.com

 

[ThinkPerceive]

Welcome to the forum ThinkPerceive.

This is the pregnenolone powder that I use.

Pregnenolone

You could put it into capsules for your girlfriend but honestly it's pretty tasteless so I just put some directly on my tongue and wash it down with something to drink.

I don't know of a good dhea powder but someone else might have a recommended source. If not you can look on forum member @Dan Wich's site. He has an extensive list of supplements with the least additives.

www.toxinless.com

Thanks - I actually have the materials already, just trying to nail down the 'most likely to succeed' formula

 

[DaveFoster]

Topical with DMSO on your balls.

Dr. Peat does not recommend 100 mg pregnenolone daily; he recommends 100 mg every three days.

 

[Blossom]

Topical with DMSO on your balls.

It's for his girlfriend.:)

 

[X3CyO]

I've been going over the DHEA+pregnenolone threads with great interest. But I'm finding mixed or contradictory information when I look into making an oral version.

My girlfriend is just not going to do drops, and making capsules is the way to go for her. Because it's oral how do the amounts change to be roughly equivalent to Haidut's Pansterone for example, I'm thinking 5mg DHEA and 50mg pregnenolone, 2x/day (more times per day, the less likely it'll happen - above all I want this EASY for her). She's pretty healthy, a mom in her 40's, has a fair bit of stress.

It's the pregnenolone info especially that confuses me. Studies say that oral pregnenolone has excellent absorption - which would suggest just 5mg per dose would be fine. But Dr. Peat suggests 100mg/day. Other studies suggest that the low AND high dose increases allopregnenolone which is Not Good.

So, in a general way, how to best dose the ingredients orally instead of topically, to get a comparable effect? I know getting personal diagnosis isn't an option, and I'm mostly looking for insight anyway, not a prescription :)

Im certain that the high recommendation comes from traditional powder use which Mrs. Dalton had reccomended in the form of vaginal suppositories which had low absorption rates. (Think around 10%)

When it comes to use with dmso, its generally assumed that you need 10x lower of a dose to achieve the same effect due to potenation of steroids. Haidut has a few articles regarding dmso and that it can lead to near 100% absorption.

Id reccomend suppositories.
People tend to use pansterone on their rats balls to increase efficacy. I do this with vitamin K and some androsterone sometimes.

If you make an oral formula with just powder ive heard its best to use vitamin e and some carrier like coconut or olive oil, akin to peats version.



Just thought of it, but coconut oil solidifies easily.. maybe you could make a cream, measure it out and form it into a block, and cut them into rectangular shaped capsules. Like how people make liver tabs.

Maybe add dmso into the mix and just use before sleep? I know dmso freezes easily.

Could keep it in the fridge ideally.
good luck

 

[X3CyO]

Topical with DMSO on your balls.

It's for his girlfriend.:)

*her balls

 

[ThinkPerceive]

Thanks guys, but it's got to be capsules

No way I'm getting her to do suppositories or creams or DMSO on her lady bits either.

What I want to know is, given the different absorption orally (relative to a topical like Pansterone), how should I adjust the amounts?

A lot of other threads suggest that topical should be about 5mg each, in divided doses. Peat recommends 100mg pregnenolone daily - but given its absorbed well orally, isn't that kind of high especially over months?

I just don't know....

Remember though - this will be for CAPSULES. The other ideas are great, but maybe for another time.

 

[DaveFoster]

It's for his girlfriend.:)

@ThinkPerceive

Topical with DMSO on the top right thing; girl anatomy is scary.

 

[ThinkPerceive]

@ThinkPerceive

Topical with DMSO on the top right thing; girl anatomy is scary.

Thanks. Always nice to get a refresher on the anatomy

However, this post is about making an ORAL formula, to put in CAPSULES. I mentioned topical because Haidut's Pansterone is what I'm using for a model, but the dosages will be different orally to get a similar effect.

 

[X3CyO]

Vagina capsules man.










But seriously.

You can take in all these products orally you know. Dmso absorbs internally just as well as externally.

Using it on the sex organs directly is just the way to use it most effectively and assure nothing goes to waste or converts to something undesireable/ is clean.. for the most part.

But if you can afford to and must absolutely have capsules, then going by peats amount should be fine. Haiduts article on stress reduction via pregnenolone also reccomends this amount as well.

 

[DaveFoster]

Thanks. Always nice to get a refresher on the anatomy :)

However, this post is about making an ORAL formula, to put in CAPSULES. I mentioned topical because Haidut's Pansterone is what I'm using for a model, but the dosages will be different orally to get a similar effect.

DMSO can be taken orally.

Low doses of pregnenolone as well as higher (<100 mg) can make you irritable, but it's more likely with the lower dosages.

Pregnenolone is safe, and the larger dosages of pregnenolone will make estrogen conversion less likely from DHEA.

Pregnenolone suits men; progesterone suits women. Appropriate dosages of the latter equal 10 mg until symptoms subside.
SOURCE: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/progesterone-summaries.shtml#4

DHEA dosage matters; 15 mg/day is a ceiling for men, but women have two key differences:

1) Higher estrogen levels
2) Greater androgenicity from DHEA

This suggests that the amount needed for women would be lower, so maybe 3 dosages of 2.5 mg.

 

[raypeatclips]

Low doses of pregnenolone as well as higher (<100 mg) can make you irritable, but it's more likely with the lower dosages.

Can you elaborate on why low dosages of pregnenlone make people irritable but higher ones don't as much?

 

[DaveFoster]

Can you elaborate on why low dosages of pregnenlone make people irritable but higher ones don't as much?

That's from personal experience. Haidut mentioned the bell curve for allopregnenolone; lower concentrations antagonize GABA, as do higher ones, but with the higher dosages you get some impressive cortisol blockade and androgenic effects, IIRC, so rather the latter than the former.

From haidut:
Allopregnanolone - Wikipedia
"...Increased levels of allopregnanolone can produce paradoxical effects, including negative mood, anxiety, irritability, and aggression.[24][25][26] This appears to be because allopregnanolone possesses biphasic, U-shaped actions at the GABAA receptor – moderate level increases (in the range of 1.5–2 nM/L total allopregnanolone, which are approximately equivalent to luteal phase levels) inhibit the activity of the receptor, while lower and higher concentration increases stimulate it.[24][25] This seems to be a common effect of many GABAA receptor positive allosteric modulators.[26][21] In accordance, acute administration of low doses of micronized progesterone (which reliably elevates allopregnanolone levels), have been found to have negative effects on mood, while higher doses have a neutral effect.[27]"

DHEA is one way to inhibit this effect and hence the (one of many) reason DHEA is in Pansterone.

 

[ThinkPerceive]

Pregnenolone suits men; progesterone suits women. Appropriate dosages of the latter equal 10 mg until symptoms subside.
SOURCE: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/progesterone-summaries.shtml#4

I would love to include progesterone in this - but I'm stuck with the (oral!) capsules. I do see that progesterone powder is available (though, like $90 for 5 grams after shipping costs) - but then she'd have to coordinate it with her period, and I'm aiming for drop dead simple here.

 

[DaveFoster]

I would love to include progesterone in this - but I'm stuck with the (oral!) capsules. I do see that progesterone powder is available (though, like $90 for 5 grams after shipping costs) - but then she'd have to coordinate it with her period, and I'm aiming for drop dead simple here.

I would do a lower dose of DHEA. 50 mg pregnenolone should be fine per capsule. Maybe 2 mg DHEA.

Here's a thread of experiences:

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/women-what-did-you-think-of-pregnenolone.6809/

 

[ThinkPerceive]

I would do a lower dose of DHEA. 50 mg pregnenolone should be fine per capsule. Maybe 2 mg DHEA.

Here's a thread of experiences:

Women: What Did You Think Of Pregnenolone?

Nice - thanks!!

 

[Highserotonin90]

That's from personal experience. Haidut mentioned the bell curve for allopregnenolone; lower concentrations antagonize GABA, as do higher ones, but with the higher dosages you get some impressive cortisol blockade and androgenic effects, IIRC, so rather the latter than the former.

From haidut:
Allopregnanolone - Wikipedia
"...Increased levels of allopregnanolone can produce paradoxical effects, including negative mood, anxiety, irritability, and aggression.[24][25][26] This appears to be because allopregnanolone possesses biphasic, U-shaped actions at the GABAA receptor – moderate level increases (in the range of 1.5–2 nM/L total allopregnanolone, which are approximately equivalent to luteal phase levels) inhibit the activity of the receptor, while lower and higher concentration increases stimulate it.[24][25] This seems to be a common effect of many GABAA receptor positive allosteric modulators.[26][21] In accordance, acute administration of low doses of micronized progesterone (which reliably elevates allopregnanolone levels), have been found to have negative effects on mood, while higher doses have a neutral effect.[27]"

DHEA is one way to inhibit this effect and hence the (one of many) reason DHEA is in Pansterone.

@DaveFoster Is there anything else that can be done to escape the vortex of negative symptoms caused by a microdose of pregnenolone? 3-5mg. I don't have dhea.

 

[DaveFoster]

@DaveFoster Is there anything else that can be done to escape the vortex of negative symptoms caused by a microdose of pregnenolone? 3-5mg. I don't have dhea.

Dr. Peat and Georgi have both advised to take more, I believe, such as a 100 mg dosage.