Does Anyone Have References that Validate the Use of Urine pH as a Proxy for Blood/ECF pH?

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,105
Location
Manila
For a while now, I've been taking urine pH using pH test strips and using the pH readings as basis to determine how close my blood/ecf pH is to optimal ecf pH, which is 7.4.

As used by naturopathic doctors, optimal urine pH is 6.5 -6.8. I think this has been accepted by many in the forum, including myself. But lately, I have wondered whether this has been backed up by studies. Is there a study that has measured actual blood pH and urine pH among a statistically valid number of human subjects to corroborate the use of urine pH as a surrogate marker for blood pH?

The reason I ask is because I have lately found that taking mineral supplements such as magnesium bicarbonate and potassium citrate to achieve optimal pH seem to make me urinate a lot more frequently. I am now beginning to ask why that is happening, and so I'm starting to question my assumption that the use of urine pH as a surrogate marker for blood pH has been validated.

If validation has been done, then I would have to start questioning my practice of taking mineral supplements to influence the acid-base balance in my body.

If the study has been posted in this forum already, would appreciate pointing out to me that post.

Thanks.
 

StephanF

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
267
Location
Reno
The blood pH is, as you probably know, tightly controlled between 7.35 and 7.45. Even hyperventilating will raise the pH just a little due to the loss of CO2, which affects the red blood cells' oxygen-CO2 exchange, that's why people pass out: the brain doesn't get enough oxygen!

The idea about keeping your body 'alkaline' is I think misleading. I believe it has more to do with the buffer strength: A buffer will keep its pH level also in a controlled range until too much acid has been added and the buffer becomes depleted, then the pH suddenly drops. By eating a lot of acidifying foods, we may weaken this biological buffer, which may allow cancer to start growing somewhere. Cancer is said to grow in an acid environment - but I am not sure, I think the lower pH is due to the faster metabolism of the cancer, its waist products make the tissue acidic.

The late German Freiherr Manfred von Ardenne created the 'multi-step therapy' (Mehrschritt-Therapie), he would inject glucose solution around the cancer tissue, and this enhanced the metabolism of the cancer, thus the cancer tissue became acidic. This acidification made the cancer more susceptible to heat. He used RF (or microwave?) to induce hyperthermia in the cancer tissue and the cancer cells died.


"For years, attempts had been made to inhibit the growth of cancer by stopping glycolysis. Ardenne now proposed exactly the opposite. By increasing glycolysis, targeted acidification of the cancerous tissue should be achieved, making it particularly susceptible to an increase in temperature. The selective therapeutic attack on the cancerous tissue is based on the simultaneous realization of an "induced hyperglycemia" leading to acidification and the associated increased sensitivity of the cancerous tissue to an increased body temperature. This is used therapeutically through "extreme whole-body hyperthermia". Acidification is associated, although not in all cases, with a reduction in blood circulation, which, based on the principle of feedback, intensifies the primary damage process of cancer cells."

Ardenne was trying to swim against the stream of orthodox medicine, which mostly rejected his ideas. Dr. Royal Raymond Rife is a similar but even more tragic story...
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
8,510
The blood pH is, as you probably know, tightly controlled between 7.35 and 7.45. Even hyperventilating will raise the pH just a little due to the loss of CO2, which affects the red blood cells' oxygen-CO2 exchange, that's why people pass out: the brain doesn't get enough oxygen!

The idea about keeping your body 'alkaline' is I think misleading. I believe it has more to do with the buffer strength: A buffer will keep its pH level also in a controlled range until too much acid has been added and the buffer becomes depleted, then the pH suddenly drops. By eating a lot of acidifying foods, we may weaken this biological buffer, which may allow cancer to start growing somewhere. Cancer is said to grow in an acid environment - but I am not sure, I think the lower pH is due to the faster metabolism of the cancer, its waist products make the tissue acidic.

The late German Freiherr Manfred von Ardenne created the 'multi-step therapy' (Mehrschritt-Therapie), he would inject glucose solution around the cancer tissue, and this enhanced the metabolism of the cancer, thus the cancer tissue became acidic. This acidification made the cancer more susceptible to heat. He used RF (or microwave?) to induce hyperthermia in the cancer tissue and the cancer cells died.


"For years, attempts had been made to inhibit the growth of cancer by stopping glycolysis. Ardenne now proposed exactly the opposite. By increasing glycolysis, targeted acidification of the cancerous tissue should be achieved, making it particularly susceptible to an increase in temperature. The selective therapeutic attack on the cancerous tissue is based on the simultaneous realization of an "induced hyperglycemia" leading to acidification and the associated increased sensitivity of the cancerous tissue to an increased body temperature. This is used therapeutically through "extreme whole-body hyperthermia". Acidification is associated, although not in all cases, with a reduction in blood circulation, which, based on the principle of feedback, intensifies the primary damage process of cancer cells."

Ardenne was trying to swim against the stream of orthodox medicine, which mostly rejected his ideas. Dr. Royal Raymond Rife is a similar but even more tragic story...
Great post. thank you
 

yerrag

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,105
Location
Manila
The idea about keeping your body 'alkaline' is I think misleading. I believe it has more to do with the buffer strength: A buffer will keep its pH level also in a controlled range until too much acid has been added and the buffer becomes depleted, then the pH suddenly drops.
Agree. It is just like with water devices that's being sold as alkaline water. They have the alkaline pH, but they have no buffer. So a little acid will cause that high pH to instantly lower. They are expensive too. It's better to add a little baking soda, which is cheap, and it has more buffer capacity than the commercial alkaline water. But still, I have some misgivings about taking a lot of bicarbonates. Just a little would be fine though.

I can't prove this, but I feel that too much bicarbonates may just give the appearance of having optimal urine pH. But it may not be helpful if it interferes with the body's signalling mechanisms. I've read in passing about acidity signalling inflammatory cytokines as needed to correct some issues, as part of our immune system's way of fixing us. I now wonder if it helps my body if I interfere with this process by countering the acidity with bicarbonates that I intake in significant amounts. I've actually stopped the practice now and am observing for effects.

Maybe the excessive urination could be the body's way of restoring the acidity it intended to have, and that the urine coming out is filled with bicarbonates? I wonder...

By eating a lot of acidifying foods, we may weaken this biological buffer, which may allow cancer to start growing somewhere. Cancer is said to grow in an acid environment - but I am not sure, I think the lower pH is due to the faster metabolism of the cancer, its waist products make the tissue acidic.
I wonder this too. Seems like the acidity has a use. When there is infection, higher acidity is a result of trying to resolve that infection, and the body, thru the kidneys, regulates it so the right pH is produced for the condition it is dealing with. If there is no infection (or toxin or antigen to deal with), the body restores the pH to a more alkaline one. If there is good sugar metabolism, and CO2 is produced instead of lactic acid, and there is just enough fatty acid metabolism to produce minimal keto acids, then the pH would be where it is optimal.

But having enough potassium around would ensure that the kidneys and liver don't have to produce ammonium in order to effect the excretion of acids through urination.

The late German Freiherr Manfred von Ardenne created the 'multi-step therapy' (Mehrschritt-Therapie), he would inject glucose solution around the cancer tissue, and this enhanced the metabolism of the cancer, thus the cancer tissue became acidic. This acidification made the cancer more susceptible to heat. He used RF (or microwave?) to induce hyperthermia in the cancer tissue and the cancer cells died.

Google Translate
"For years, attempts had been made to inhibit the growth of cancer by stopping glycolysis. Ardenne now proposed exactly the opposite. By increasing glycolysis, targeted acidification of the cancerous tissue should be achieved, making it particularly susceptible to an increase in temperature. The selective therapeutic attack on the cancerous tissue is based on the simultaneous realization of an "induced hyperglycemia" leading to acidification and the associated increased sensitivity of the cancerous tissue to an increased body temperature. This is used therapeutically through "extreme whole-body hyperthermia". Acidification is associated, although not in all cases, with a reduction in blood circulation, which, based on the principle of feedback, intensifies the primary damage process of cancer cells."

Ardenne was trying to swim against the stream of orthodox medicine, which mostly rejected his ideas. Dr. Royal Raymond Rife is a similar but even more tragic story...
Even though old, this idea is novel because it is using acidity against the pathogenic organism. It is counter-intuitive but this is a fresh kind of thinking.

However, I would still rather not have this kind of intervention and prefer to have us support the body with its healing.
 

yerrag

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,105
Location
Manila
Proxy= surrogate marker
 

yerrag

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,105
Location
Manila
No sir, sorry I do not. My limited understanding of pH is based on an allopathic medical perspective unfortunately.
Thanks Blossom!
 

Jennifer

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
2,444
@Jennifer @tara @Tarmander @Blossom @Amazoniac @Wilfrid @Mito @TreasureVibe @RealNeat Do you have any studies that support naturopaths' use of urine pH as a proxy for ecf pH?
Sorry, no studies that I know of, but Ray might? Your experiment with using mineral supplements to control your pH/body chemistry is similar to the RBTI protocol—maybe looking into it would turn up something useful for you? The only thing I recall Dr. Morse ever mentioning in regards to blood pH is that the body keeps a tight regulation on it, like Stephan wrote.
 

yerrag

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,105
Location
Manila
Nope

Always thought it was quasi helpful at best
Sorry, no studies that I know of, but Ray might? Your experiment with using mineral supplements to control your pH/body chemistry is similar to the RBTI protocol—maybe looking into it would turn up something useful for you? The only thing I recall Dr. Morse ever mentioning in regards to blood pH is that the body keeps a tight regulation on it, like Stephan wrote.
Thanks guys. I guess the idea came from the practice of a French doctor LC Vincent, who developed the principles of Biological Terrain Analysis early in the last century. It has since become adopted by naturopathic doctors, especially since there are test machines that can be used to test blood, saliva, and urine automatically that makes it very convenient for them to provide the patients with an assessment of their biological terrain, as a measure of health.

Perhaps there are studies in French that never got translated into the English language. @burtlancast Would you know?

Thanks. I've downloaded the PDF and I have to sit down and try to read it.
 

burtlancast

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
2,829
Acidifying the body protects against cancer, contrary to common claims.

This is what happens when people fast (many religions) and french doctor Andre Gernez proposed a cancer prevention therapy based on first acidifying the body through a 2 weeks fast then administering a drug that would synchronize the division of rogue cancer cells then immediately administer a mild cellular poison inoffensive for normal cells but deadly to the few immature cancer cells developing constantly.

The idea was to target the immature and fragile cancer cells while it was stressed by the acidity by bringing them into forced division all at the same time. Cancer cells are the most fragile at the time of their division.

The French government secretly tested his theory on rats and got 93% cancer prevention.

They refused to release the results.
 

yerrag

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,105
Location
Manila
Acidifying the body protects against cancer, contrary to common claims.

This is what happens when people fast (many religions) and french doctor Andre Gernez proposed a cancer prevention therapy based on first acidifying the body through a 2 weeks fast then administering a drug that would synchronize the division of rogue cancer cells then immediately administer a mild cellular poison inoffensive for normal cells but deadly to the few immature cancer cells developing constantly.

The idea was to target the immature and fragile cancer cells while it was stressed by the acidity by bringing them into forced division all at the same time. Cancer cells are the most fragile at the time of their division.

The French government secretly tested his theory on rats and got 93% cancer prevention.

They refused to release the results.
The more I hang out in this forum, the more I get to think like you Burt! Nothing is as it appears, and I find myself having sometimes to take an about face on what I've known and done and it has paid off.
 

yerrag

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,105
Location
Manila
This is a very short video that talks about the breathing rate to help determine telling whether one has acidosis or alkalosis:


I haven't used this before but it makes perfect sense. The problem is I have a hard time measuring my breathing rate. The moment I start to count, the more I end up not breathing naturally when I'm not observing my breathing. Someone who knows should be observing me without me being aware of it to get an accurate result, it seems.
 

yerrag

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,105
Location
Manila
I haven't read this yet, but here is a take from a blog on the website of Biomedx regarding pH:

 

yerrag

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,105
Location
Manila
I haven't read this yet, but here is a take from a blog on the website of Biomedx regarding pH:

This is a good read. I haven't seen urine pH and saliva pH being used this way. But I like how the writer explains it. It is a little more complicated than my understanding on the use of urine pH. What shakes me off my foundation is that he states that having an acidic urine pH is not necessarily bad, and he puts this in context, and it makes sense to me.

If what is written here is true, then I should admit that I have been doing it all wrong. I've been taking mineral supplements of magnesium, calcium, and potassium in order to get to my understood optimal urine pH of 6.5-6.8, and had been congratulating myself for a thumbs-up good job for being able to stay at that level all throughout the day. At the same time, I failed to see that I had been urinating a lot, and because of that, I may be losing a lot of potassium and thiamine. Hell, what's the use of juicing so much to get potassium when all along I'm pissing it away daily. SMH
 

Jennifer

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
2,444
If what is written here is true, then I should admit that I have been doing it all wrong. I've been taking mineral supplements of magnesium, calcium, and potassium in order to get to my understood optimal urine pH of 6.5-6.8, and had been congratulating myself for a thumbs-up good job for being able to stay at that level all throughout the day. At the same time, I failed to see that I had been urinating a lot, and because of that, I may be losing a lot of potassium and thiamine. Hell, what's the use of juicing so much to get potassium when all along I'm pissing it away daily. SMH
Do you feel better having kept your urine pH in the “optimal” range, despite peeing more?
 

yerrag

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,105
Location
Manila
Do you feel better having kept your urine pH in the “optimal” range, despite peeing more?
I actually had been frustrated at it because I couldn't get restful sleep when I had to wake up so often at night to pee.

Yesterday, I tested my blood sugar control with a 5hr OGTT and realize it has been the worst it's ever been.

I think my wrong understanding of optimality with regard to urine pH has contributed to that. This is the danger of getting healthy (or trying to) with having wrong ideas and thinking they're the right ideas. But snapping out of it is something anybody should be thankful for, and the past is the past and one learns from it.
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
7,875
Location
Not Uganda
Do you have any studies that support naturopaths' use of urine pH as a proxy for ecf pH?
No, but it gives clues on what's in excess and what the body is trying to do (provided that kidney function is normal), which is why it tends to reflect recent interventions. But chronic issues usually lead to compensation and it can be tricky to interpret.

- Urinary ammonia content as a determinant of urinary pH during chronic metabolic acidosis

- Low urine pH affects the development of metabolic syndrome, associative with the increase of dyslipidemia and dysglycemia: Nationwide cross-sectional study (KNHANES 2013-2015) and a single-center retrospective cohort study
- Urine alkalization facilitates uric acid excretion

There is such trend, but I'm not aware of it being used other than as a complementary test and focusing on its composition beyond hydrogen ions to find out whether the cause of metabolic acidosis is renal or gastrointestinal. In this case, the expected response when kidneys are working right is to have chloride in surplus of potassium and sodium, with the likely responsible for their difference being ammonium. However, if chloride isn't being dumped as expected (represented by potassium and sodium in surplus), it indicates a kidney issue.

- The urinary anion gap in normal anion gap metabolic acidosis | Deranged Physiology
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
Sexypizza Does anyone know where I can buy tetracycline? Supplements 2
E Does anyone know if glycine supplement raise hemoglobin? Ask For Help or Advice 0
J Does Anyone Know Anything About Selleckchem Dot Com? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 0
F Does Anyone Have A Backup Of Tyw's Blog? Ask For Help or Advice 13
Sexypizza Does Anyone Know Where I Can Buy Camphoric Acid? Digestion 5
jamies33 Does Anyone Make Pate? Recipes 1
T Does Anyone Know How They're Treating COVID-19 In UK Hospitals? Health 13
T Does Anyone Know If Cbd Oil Makes Benzodiazepines Less Effective? Ask For Help or Advice 0
jzeno Red Light: Does Anyone Actually Enjoy Red Brooder Heat Lamps More Than The LED Infrared Lights? Red Light, Infrared, LLLT 31
maillol Does Anyone In The UK Have Any Mildronate They Can Sell? Pharmaceutical Drugs 0
L Does Anyone Know Anything About The "novel" Disinfectant Being Sprayed Throughout The World? Society 11
C Does Anyone Have A Thermometer Like This? Heart, Heart Rate, Blood Pressure 4
Summer Does Anyone Else Experiencing Hair Loss Have Composite Dental Fillings? Hair & Nails 0
ecstatichamster Does Carrot/cooked ‘shrooms/bamboo Shoots Cause Anyone Bad Effects, Or Headaches Blood Work, Labs 30
Peatogenic Does Anyone Else Feel Like The Variance Of Their Physiological State Can Feel Like Identities? Ask For Help or Advice 15
SuperStressed Does Anyone Here Have A Zumex Juicer? Saves A Lot Of Time/effort Fruit Juice 3
GorillaHead Does Anyone Know Why Babies Have Balding Hairlines? Hair & Nails 29
johnwester130 Does Anyone Know Much About Beef Cheeks ? Diet, Recipes 1
ImprovingDaily Does Anyone Know If You Can Buy Pure Progesterone Powder? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 32
Peatogenic Does Anyone Get The Sense That Grain Carbs Provide A Different Kind Of Energy? Diet 34
mrchibbs Does Anyone Have Some Cynoplus They Could Sell? Ask For Help or Advice 4
jzeno Does Anyone Else Love Freshly Squeezed Orange Juice? Fruit Juice 21
L Does Anyone Know Ways To Reduce The Need For Sleep? Mind, Sleep, Stress 6
skittles Does Anyone Else Feel Like They're 'outgrowing' The Internet? Rant or Rave 40
ecstatichamster Does Anyone Care To Explain January 2019 "Receptors, Or Sensitive Substance?" Articles & Newsletters Discussion 54
johnwester130 Does Anyone Know Which Hormones Are In Gelatin Gelatin 4
K Woe Is Me. Does Anyone Have Coupon Code For Ideal Labs Dc? Diet 0
jzeno Does Anyone Know Of A Source For Air-fried Pork Rinds/Chicharrones In The States? Diet, Recipes 11
GorillaHead Does Anyone Know If 250mg Daily Niacin Dose Is Safe? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 8
GutFeeling Does Anyone Know Why Ray Thinks That Mesterolone Is Not Safe? Email Advice 1
M Does Anyone Know If BCAA Works At Reducing Serotonin Levels When It's Already High? Cortisol, Serotonin, Histamine 1
M Does Anyone Know If Matcha Green Tea Helps To Lower Serotonin? Cortisol, Serotonin, Histamine 0
M Does Anyone Know If BCAA Works At Reducing Serotonin Levels When It's Already High? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 0
R Does Anyone Have Experience Here With Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 Program? Exercise 2
GutFeeling Does Anyone Know The Amount Of Androsterone In Pine Pollen? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 4
W Does Anyone Else Monitor Meal Frequency? Experiments 4
L Does Anyone Get Migraines When Listening To Music? Eyes, Ears, Nose and Headaches/Migraines 9
ddjd Does Anyone Get ESR And Prolactin Regularly Tested? Ask For Help or Advice 25
C Does Anyone Know How To Dissolve Urea Crystals In An Oil Base (like MCT Or Squalane)? Skin 2
T Does Anyone In The UK Eat Love Hearts? Diet 4
raypeatclips Does Anyone Know The Usefulness Of Magnesium Blood Tests? Experiments 9
japanesedude Does Anyone Know The Good Sources Of Testosterone Gel/cream ? Male Issues 20
M Does Anyone Work Towards Getting OFF Of Thyroid Supplement? Natural Dessicated Thyroid 20
I_am Does Anyone Eat Indian Or Thai Food? Eating Out, On The Run, Restaurants, Grocery Store 18
R Does Anyone Here Eat Wheat Ask For Help or Advice 28
thegiantess Anyone Does Super High Doses Of B1? B1 10
goodandevil Does This Seem A Bit Too Severe To Anyone? Political Talk, Alternative World Theories 3
TheHound Does Anyone Know What Causes Red Ears? Skin 4
knives Anyone With ADHD? What Does Peat Think Of Ritalin/adderall/stimulants In General? Mental Issues 39
Y Does Anyone Know What To Take To Inhibit Tryptophan? Diet 12

Similar threads

Top