Did Gbolduev Have Any Evidence To Back Up His Claims About PH?

[Travis]

Have you sufferred through many fasts? I thought you ate dozens of mangos per day.

I have never said that. You'll never be able to source an instance of me saying that, or even anything close to me saying that.

 

[Dhair]

One thing I have noticed is that people tend to become disillusioned with Peat and his ideas after they have used these things to successfully treat themselves, which I think is very strange.
For instance, @TubZy was using pregnenolone and progesterone with great success. He said so himself. He had a great experience with 5a-DHP, caffeine, niacinamide - the list goes on. His feedback was valuable and much appreciated. So why does he completely denounce Peat and come here to mock us? Please help me understand this.
Another instance of this happening is with @Benjamin Button . He regrew an impressive amount of hair using various Peaty methods. Again, another valuable contributor. One day he starts literally drinking massive amounts of PUFA oils and tells us he's leaving and never coming back. What gives?

 

[sladerunner69]

I have never said that. You'll never be able to source an instance of me saying that, or even anything close to me saying that.

That's funny. I thought I remember someone asking what you ate on an average day, and I was shocked to see that roughly 3/4 of the calories were mangoed.

In any event, I' more interested in hearing if you have ever fasted? Or do you see fasting as having any merit?

 

[cyclops]

Benjamin Button was always a backwards kind of guy.

 

[sladerunner69]

One thing I have noticed is that people tend to become disillusioned with Peat and his ideas after they have used these things to successfully treat themselves, which I think is very strange.
For instance, @TubZy was using pregnenolone and progesterone with great success. He said so himself. He had a great experience with 5a-DHP, caffeine, niacinamide - the list goes on. His feedback was valuable and much appreciated. So why does he completely denounce Peat and come here to mock us? Please help me understand this.
Another instance of this happening is with @Benjamin Button . He regrow an impressive amount of hair using various Peaty methods. Again, another valuable contributor. One day he starts literally drinking massive amounts of PUFA oils and tells us he's leaving and never coming back. What gives?

Well now, to be fair, I don't believe @TubZy came here to "denounce" Peat, he hasn't explicitly done so. Aside from making fun of those of us who are addicted to ice cream and coffee. He's just defending commissionaire Bgolbuev, because apparently his advice has helped him recover from PFS moreso than Peat has.

But all of this bantering and taking shots at each other is mighty fun and all, but we should try to make things constructive. I am very interested in learning why fasting helps PFS, and I am hoping for a more detailed explanation that "upregulating" receptors because I personally don't hold a ton of stock in receptor theory.

 

[Koveras]

I have never said that. You'll never be able to source an instance of me saying that, or even anything close to me saying that.

I often eat one pound of raw kale per day, but not a whole lot of carotenes besides. But I have been on rampages! carotene binges, when mangoes were both good and 50¢ apiece.

This is kind of close

 

[AretnaP]

Thanks man, but it isn't about that at all. I dont want any publicity or anything (if you look at my posts I have never posted the HS link publicly here). I just had to respond because the OP @AretnaP of the post was so critical and constantly making fun of Gbol's theories yet every time I log onto this forum he is asking questions and explanations about his theories (like he is so genuinely interested) still months after he has been banned, which makes no sense. A lot of people aren't familiar about his work but just assume stuff like @Kartoffel does and are totally inaccurate so I just wanted to clear that up.

I didn't really make fun of his theories, his claim that sunlight has little to nothing to do with Vit D is some what... dubious.

I also thought his statement of "if you're a bodybuilder never inhibit estrogen, you will lose all the effects of steroids" is obviously wrong.

Here's my official position on muscle/estrogen: Estrogen, by causing water retention in the muscle, has a creatine-like effect on strength.

But it's obvious you do not "lose all effects of steroids", because super-hardcore bodybuilders do decrease estrogen to insanely low levels (in order to get that really dry, striated look). They obviously wouldn't do this in the off-season because it would mess with their water-retention, and thus strength.

I also obviously do not agree with his idea that blood PH is something that has to be constantly monitored in most people, like haidut said, most people (with the exception of people with VERY serious medical conditions) have a blood PH of 7.35-7.45 (there's some people who believe that the lymph system can become too acidic, but I'm still pretty skeptical of that).

If he believes that ph can become abnormal and it can result in non-life threatening conditions that can last for years he needs to post some actual links to his information, not just say "read anesthesiology".

Look at haidut, the guy does nothing but post studies, that's all he does.
Gbolduev needs to up his study-posting level to haidut rank or I can't accept the theories he puts forth.

 

[TubZy]

I didn't really make fun of his theories, his claim that sunlight has little to nothing to do with Vit D is some what... dubious.

I also thought his statement of "if you're a bodybuilder never inhibit estrogen, you will lose all the effects of steroids" is obviously wrong.

Here's my official position on muscle/estrogen: Estrogen, by causing water retention in the muscle, has a creatine-like effect on strength.

But it's obvious you do not "lose all effects of steroids", because super-hardcore bodybuilders do decrease estrogen to insanely low levels (in order to get that really dry, striated look). They obviously wouldn't do this in the off-season because it would mess with their water-retention, and thus strength.

I also obviously do not agree with his idea that blood PH is something that has to be constantly monitored in most people, like haidut said, most people (with the exception of people with VERY serious medical conditions) have a blood PH of 7.35-7.45 (there's some people who believe that the lymph system can become too acidic, but I'm still pretty skeptical of that).

If he believes that ph can become abnormal and it can result in non-life threatening conditions that can last for years he needs to post some actual links to his information, not just say "read anesthesiology".

Look at haidut, the guy does nothing but post studies, that's all he does.
Gbolduev needs to up his study-posting level to haidut rank or I can't accept the theories he puts forth.

Regarding bodybuilding, I explained this to you a long time ago, I'm not going into this again as we can agree to disagree. You need to understand that bodybuilders don't just tank their estrogen and get "striated". They are taking DHT and testosterone derived steroids on top of that. Do yourself a favor, go buy some arimidex (nothing else just arimidex) and take some, you will get your estrogen down to extremely low levels and tell me how you look. You will feel extremely flat and not "striated" at all. Estrogen does have some anabolic properties look up the mechanisms of how anadrol and dianabol work.

So if Gbol is "obviously wrong" according to you why can't you just accept that and move on, I don't get it? Yet months later every time I log on to this forum you are are making threads and posts trying to still understand his theory like you still want to believe it? Like for what exact reason do you care? Majority of the other people here that don't agree with him were fine after he got banned, they didn't keep trying to understand his theory so I have no idea what your purpose is.

Like I said earlier, Gbol isn't interested in just posting studies unless he understand the fundamentals of why a certain study came out a certain way as in enzyme functions, cell balance, minerals etc instead of just reading the conclusion/summary of a study and saying "yeah such and such does X". Not sure how that is a bad thing instead of just blindly posting studies because of what the conclusion says? Sure, we could go back and forth all day and read the conclusions of so many studies that contradict each other- that doesn't prove anything.

 

[Travis]

That's funny. I thought I remember someone asking what you ate on an average day, and I was shocked to see that roughly 3/4 of the calories were mangoed.

In any event, I' more interested in hearing if you have ever fasted? Or do you see fasting as having any merit?

Well, most of the calories do come from fruit but this is highly variable; Midwest fruit is subject to climactic variation and the whims of distributors. Right now nearly all calories come from dates, coconut, pineapple, and apples. Shredded‐coconut‐stuffed dates pair well with Costa Rican coffee, are Peat‐friendly, and taste like cupcakes.

There's no way I could eat that many mangoes on an average day since this area hasn't had good mangoes in over three years. The last time I had eaten, or even had bought, that many in one day had been about five years ago.

I have fasted for a few days before, and believe that it helps to clear the mind. However: it can be uncomfortable for the first day or two, leading to an opposite effect initially as the body equilibrates. Imagine trying to quit smoking; wheat and dairy have proteins which can release peptides with opiate‐like effects, demonstrated even by nerve conduction nociception—both blocked by naloxone. Dairy withdrawal alone is difficult for many people. It should be obvious to anyone that simply not eating destructive foods would make someone healthier, so it's hard to tease apart the effects of 'fasting' from the effects of simply not eating certain foods—or switching the diet. Some authors give the impression that fasting has positive effects which can be divorced from the effect of not eating harmful foods—effects which can be gained exclusively from not eating at all. I don't see this necessarily to be the case; I think the rate of detoxification, and in some instances regeneration and healing, can be accelerated by fasting. There's quite a bit of information of fasting, and dozens of books are available online for free. Many 'fasting experts' will say "Detoxification will still occur on an all‐juice diet at roughly ¹⁄₃ the rate of water fasting," or something to that effect. So it's accepted that you don't necessarily need to fast, but it can speed‐up detoxification (as can exercise and saunas). But if someone doesn't first accept the idea that certain foods are metabolized cleaner than others, and that certain undefinable 'metabolic products' accumulate in the body, then they won't accept the idea of fasting. It could be nice to know if these undefinable 'metabolic products' have a scientific reality or are an imaginary construct created by people like Ehret, Shelton, Tilden, and the like. They could simply be talking about excessive lipids, steroids, and polyamines of the wrong type—perhaps even the experimentally‐demonstrated small molecule toxins that can literally be stored in adipocytes.* Whatever the case, things which are eliminated through the pores do seem largely determined by what one had eaten previously.

I don't think most people will fully accept the ideas behind fasting since the practitioners and authors who have constructed the core ideological framework behind it (i.e. Shelton; Ehret) write in a very anti‐cooking, anti‐dairy, anti‐meat language (with a few exceptions). So it's a pretty hard swallow for many, and people who would like to promote this school of thought would likely have more success in just trying to convince people to make a few minor dietary modifications. Even this is difficult: They are outnumbered—and out financed—about one thousand to one; the media are heavily‐influenced by the food industries (advertising revenue‐dependent), culture is highly biased towards tradition, and the American Medical Association views fasting retreats and their owners as 'a threat' to profits—driving 'customers' away from the hospitals.

*Müllerová, D. "White adipose tissue: storage and effector site for environmental pollutants." Physiological Research (2007)

 

[TubZy]

One thing I have noticed is that people tend to become disillusioned with Peat and his ideas after they have used these things to successfully treat themselves, which I think is very strange.
For instance, @TubZy was using pregnenolone and progesterone with great success. He said so himself. He had a great experience with 5a-DHP, caffeine, niacinamide - the list goes on. His feedback was valuable and much appreciated. So why does he completely denounce Peat and come here to mock us? Please help me understand this.
Another instance of this happening is with @Benjamin Button . He regrew an impressive amount of hair using various Peaty methods. Again, another valuable contributor. One day he starts literally drinking massive amounts of PUFA oils and tells us he's leaving and never coming back. What gives?

Where did I denounce Peat? I never denounced Peat all all, I agree with some of the things he talks about. Just because I agree with Gbol doesn't mean I'm anti peat (even Gbol isn't 100% anti peat either). And the reason why I came back to post is because people constantly tag me here about Gbol like in the Gbol and Q/A thread, all I do is respond back. I responded back to this thread pertaining to Gbol because you made a completely inaccurate post about saying fasting will cause PFS/PSSD/post accutane people to commit suicide which in reality it does the exact opposite (finasteride decreases GABA while fasting increases GABA via ketones), yet you provided zero scientific or anecdotal evidence to backup your outrageous claim.

 

[Travis]

This is kind of close

But the same can be said of when papayas were $1 per pound, pineapples were 79¢, and the local apples were practically free. If any food‐relevant stereotype should be attached to me, it should be the almond‐ or coconut‐stuffed dates with coffee. Now that is something I eat nearly every day.

 

[Dhair]

Where did I denounce Peat? I never denounced Peat all all, I agree with some of the things he talks about. Just because I agree with Gbol doesn't mean I'm anti peat (even Gbol isn't 100% anti peat either). And the reason why I came back to post is because people constantly tag me here about Gbol like in the Gbol and Q/A thread, all I do is respond back. I responded back to this thread because you made a completely inaccurate post about saying fasting will cause PFS people to commit suicide which in reality it does the exact opposite (finasteride decreases GABA while fasting increases GABA via ketones), yet you provided zero scientific or anecdotal evidence to backup your outrageous claim.

You are right, I shouldnt have said that you completely denounced Peat. But you did mock us.
Your comment regarding ketosis and GABA is accurate, but bear in mind that even in the keto community it is well known that a lot of people need to be monitored by their doctors to make sure they don't have seizures as they go into ketosis. The GABA benefits don't happen until the process (or "detoxifying" as keto advocates would call it) is complete.
My comment was referring specifically to 20+ day water only fasts, which gbold mentioned several times. As far as I am concerned, the onus is on the person making such an extreme recommendation to demonstrate that it is safe for an ill person to underake.
I wish you guys wouldn't brazenly dismiss studies. Two identical studies with the same methods/controls will have the same results, and we really don't have a reason to believe otherwise. If you can apply a larger context to the study itself, then you can conclude if it is accurate or not. This is different from confirmation bias. Does it align with your understanding of how the organism functions? If so, then it should be taken into account. As haidut and others have mentioned, there are different schools of thought, and that should be considered when reading any study. So it becomes very easy for anyone from the gbold crowd to dismiss all studies out of hand.

 

[AretnaP]

Regarding bodybuilding, I explained this to you a long time ago, I'm not going into this again as we can agree to disagree. You need to understand that bodybuilders don't just tank their estrogen and get "striated". They are taking DHT and testosterone derived steroids on top of that. Do yourself a favor, go buy some arimidex (nothing else just arimidex) and take some, you will get your estrogen down to extremely low levels and tell me how you look. You will feel extremely flat and not "striated" at all. Estrogen does have some anabolic properties look up the mechanisms of how anadrol and dianabol work.

So if Gbol is "obviously wrong" according to you why can't you just accept that and move on, I don't get it? Yet months later every time I log on to this forum you are are making threads and posts trying to still understand his theory like you still want to believe it? Like for what exact reason do you care? Majority of the other people here that don't agree with him were fine after he got banned, they didn't keep trying to understand his theory so I have no idea what your purpose is.

Like I said earlier, Gbol isn't interested in just posting studies unless he understand the fundamentals of why a certain study came out a certain way as in enzyme functions, cell balance, minerals etc instead of just reading the conclusion/summary of a study and saying "yeah such and such does X". Not sure how that is a bad thing instead of just blindly posting studies because of what the conclusion says? Sure, we could go back and forth all day and read the conclusions of so many studies that contradict each other- that doesn't prove anything.

I do remember being mentioned in this thread, the 4th post goes into pretty great detail, much more than I could.

About your quote "every time I log on to this forum you are are making threads and posts trying to still understand his theory" That's because you don't log in much anymore, if you search my name and "gbolduev" you only get like seven results (including this post).

As for this thread, I wanted to see if anybody could find evidence that PH is something to worry about in people that don't have very bad conditions.

Look at post 1119, in this thread, or post 353 in this thread, where are his ideas coming from that ph balance can be so significantly different from person to person that it requires an entirely different diet? (or that a perfect ph of 7.4 will cause you to never age)

I mean, it may very well be true that different people may need different things, but the idea that ph is what makes the difference even in a very narrow range will cause your body to work entirely differently needs more evidence before it can be preached like this.

edit: also, my reasons for making this thread do not matter, I will post anything I want as long as it doesn't violate rules

 

[TubZy]

You are right, I shouldnt have said that you completely denounced Peat. But you did mock us.
Your comment regarding ketosis and GABA is accurate, but bear in mind that even in the keto community it is well known that a lot of people need to be monitored by their doctors to make sure they don't have seizures as they go into ketosis. The GABA benefits don't happen until the process (or "detoxifying" as keto advocates would call it) is complete.
My comment was referring specifically to 20+ day water only fasts, which gbold mentioned several times. As far as I am concerned, the onus is on the person making such an extreme recommendation to demonstrate that it is safe for an ill person to underake.
I wish you guys wouldn't brazenly dismiss studies. Two identical studies with the same methods/controls will have the same results, and we really don't have a reason to believe otherwise. If you can apply a larger context to the study itself, then you can conclude if it is accurate or not. This is different from confirmation bias. Does it align with your understanding of how the organism functions? If so, then it should be taken into account. As haidut and others have mentioned, there are different schools of thought, and that should be considered when reading any study. So it becomes very easy for anyone from the gbold crowd to dismiss all studies out of hand.

I never heard of anyone having to be monitored to go into ketosis that was in general good health, maybe if they were old or some sort of pre-existing seizure condition? If anyone would be at risk it would be PFS people as they already have low GABA and like I said they feel better so I think you are fear mongering a bit here. I mean there are so many people that do it every day like intermittent fasting or even alternate day fasting, it doesn't matter people fast every day even diabetics as fasting can drastically improve and restore insulin sensitivity, look up Dr. Jason Fung.

Ketosis kicks in end of day 2 to day 3 with water fasting, it is like clock work every time I do it and same with others, it is really not that hard. Again, I don't think you understand how fasting works, multiple gene expressions get activated as well. Hunger subsides the longer the fast goes on whether it be 10 days, 20 days, 30 days etc. There are plenty of logs already with even sick individuals who have completed over 20 day water fasts. I guess when you are slamming sugar every day with poor insulin sensitivity it can seem very overwhelming to not eat anything, but you get over if very quick after a few days and with strong will power. Not sure why you are so against it, last I recall you are still battling your own health issues for how long now yet they still haven't resolved? Why not at least consider something different before quickly dismissing it. Feel free to post studies that go against fasting if you want as I have studies that show the benefits of fasting.

Why would a 20 day water fast be dangerous? The only time it can become dangerous is if you are super lean already and plan to do a very long fast as you body needs at least some fat to feed on and of course water with electrolytes/sea salt as needed. If you feel that unsafe go to True North.

 

[cyclops]

Not sure why you are so against it, last I recall you are still battling your own health issues for how long now? Why not at least consider something different before quickly dismissing it. Feel free to post studies that go against fasting if you want as I have studies that show the benefits of fasting.

I'd be willing to try fasting if I thought it would benefit me, but I dismiss it because many on here warn that it will have many negative consequences and ultimately be destructive to health.

 

[TubZy]

I do remember being mentioned in this thread, the 4th post goes into pretty great detail, much more than I could.

About your quote "every time I log on to this forum you are are making threads and posts trying to still understand his theory" That's because you don't log in much anymore, if you search my name and "gbolduev" you only get like seven results (including this post).

As for this thread, I wanted to see if anybody could find evidence that PH is something to worry about in people that don't have very bad conditions.

Look at post 1119, in this thread, or post 353 in this thread, where are his ideas coming from that ph balance can be so significantly different from person to person that it requires an entirely different diet? (or that a perfect ph of 7.4 will cause you to never age)

I mean, it may very well be true that different people may need different things, but the idea that ph is what makes the difference even in a very narrow range will cause your body to work entirely differently needs more evidence before it can be preached like this.

edit: also, my reasons for making this thread do not matter, I will post anything I want as long as it doesn't violate rules

You still haven't answered my question, you just mentioned he was "obviously wrong" and said you debunked his claims and made an anti fasting thread (below). You know that he is banned, but still want explanations so why do you continue to investigate or understand his theory, for what reason? Do you agree with him in areas but are you too afraid to admit it, or something, is that why? Just seem completely hypocritical to me, you obviously have been going out of your way to try and fully discredit him in the past.

Your big post on anti fasting targeted at Gbol, which I posted a study showing T levels where high post fast because of receptor upregulation : If You Don't Want Low Testosterone DO NOT FAST

 

[AretnaP]

You still haven't answered my question, you just mentioned he was "obviously wrong" and said you debunked his claims and made an anti fasting thread (below). You know that he is banned, so why do you continue to investigate or understand his theory, for what reason? Do you agree with him in areas but are you too afraid to admit it, or something, is that why? Just seem completely hypocritical to me.

Your big post on anti fasting targeted at Gbol, which I posted a study showing T levels where high post fast because of receptor upregulation : If You Don't Want Low Testosterone DO NOT FAST

I agree with him on zinc, high-zinc diets seem to be better for preventing hypothyroidism than high-copper diets. I can disagree with ray on this because I am aware of a study that showed zinc supplementation prevented a decrease in thyroid acrivity in people doing low-intensity cardio.

As for fasting, I think short-term fasts can work for boosting testosterone (at least for a short time) since when you fast LH will go up.

I looked up many studies on long-term fasting, most of them show decreased testosterone.

If you want to do short-term fasts you could experience a short boost in testosterone, however I think the claim that if your test goes down during one of gbold's gandhi-style long-term fasts (it most likely will) it will be made up for by an increase in receptors is untrue.

Low testosterone tends to cause a decrease in the density of androgen receptor protein, so I just doubt that the effective hypogonadism caused by long-term fasting will be made up for by an increase in AR.

 

[Dhair]

I never heard of anyone having to be monitored to go into ketosis that was in general good health, maybe if they were old or some sort of pre-existing seizure condition? If anyone would be at risk it would be PFS people as they already have low GABA and like I said they feel better so I think you are fear mongering a bit here. I mean there are so many people that do it every day like intermittent fasting or even alternate day fasting, it doesn't matter people fast every day even diabetics as fasting can drastically improve and restore insulin sensitivity, look up Dr. Jason Fung.

Ketosis kicks in end of day 2 to day 3 with water fasting, it is like clock work every time I do it and same with others, it is really not that hard. Again, I don't think you understand how fasting works, multiple gene expressions get activated as well. Hunger subsides the longer the fast goes on whether it be 10 days, 20 days, 30 days etc. There are plenty of logs already with even sick individuals who have completed over 20 day water fasts. I guess when you are slamming sugar every day with poor insulin sensitivity it can seem very overwhelming to not eat anything, but you get over if very quick after a few days and with strong will power. Not sure why you are so against it, last I recall you are still battling your own health issues for how long now yet they still haven't resolved? Why not at least consider something different before quickly dismissing it. Feel free to post studies that go against fasting if you want as I have studies that show the benefits of fasting.

Why would a 20 day water fast be dangerous? The only time it can become dangerous is if you are super lean already and plan to do a very long fast as you body needs at least some fat to feed on and of course water with electrolytes/sea salt as needed. If you feel that unsafe go to True North.

Fasting will cause elevated FFA. Elevated FFA causes insulin resistance. Do you want to see studies supporting to that?
What is there to understand? Any adaptive changes to fasting are not permanent and they are a stress response to starvation. I might accept that short term fasting could be good for detoxifying, but even that may cause more harm than good in the long run.
Logs don't mean much to me. I have no reason to doubt that fasting makes people feel good. The question is why, and the answer is chronically elevated cortisol.
Can you please post a full list of your references in regards to the benefits of fasting?

 

[AretnaP]

Fasting will cause elevated FFA. Elevated FFA causes insulin resistance. Do you want to see studies supporting to that?
What is there to understand? Any adaptive changes to fasting are not permanent and they are a stress response to starvation. I might accept that short term fasting could be good for detoxifying, but even that may cause more harm than good in the long run. Can you please post a full list of your references in regards to the benefits of fasting?

Post the studies as soon as you are conveniently able to.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

My comment was referring specifically to 20+ day water only fasts, which gbold mentioned several times. As far as I am concerned, the onus is on the person making such an extreme recommendation to demonstrate that it is safe for an ill person to underake.

No, the onus is on you to do your research. And with that I'm not suggesting that you should or shouldn't fast. I'm just saying it's you who has to come to your own conclusion after you've done what you consider to be sufficient research. I'll tell you what I've found.

When it specifically comes to water-only fasting, there is only one place that the published data is coming from.

Medically supervised water-only fasting in the treatment of borderline hypertension. - PubMed - NCBI

Medically supervised water-only fasting in the treatment of hypertension. - PubMed - NCBI - "Almost 90% of the subjects achieved blood pressure less than 140/90 mm Hg by the end of the treatment program."

Water-only fasting and an exclusively plant foods diet in the management of stage IIIa, low-grade follicular lymphoma. - PubMed - NCBI

and unless these people are are paid liars, then there's their personal anecdotes. At least most of them show before and after photos as well as these 60 or so people at Lockman's place.

True North is a non-profit, it that means anything.

The reason why there is only one source of data is because there is virtually no way to get funding for real human long term trials. It would be massively expensive. Throw in the taboo against it and it's clear why Goldhamer's place is the only one in the US, which was inspired by Dr. Alec Burton's clinic in Australia, the Arcadia Health Centre. This isn't acupuncture, chiropractic, yoga or homeopathy. It's a very unique thing and a unique state. When you see someone in person doing it, you really feel their human-ness as opposed to just watching a video of it.

All other versions of "fasting" in the literature are mostly on mice and they are not true fasts but delayed feeding windows or abstinence from certain foods/activities. Those "fasts" may show similar biomarkers with true water-only fasting but it appears that water-only is the state that is the mother of all fasting. It's specifically autophagy, stem cells, and molecules called sirtuins that are what make it special.

The work of Valter Longo shows benefits from mimicking the water-only state.

"In both mice and a Phase 1 human clinical trial involving patients receiving chemotherapy, long periods of not eating significantly lowered white blood cell counts. In mice, fasting cycles then “flipped a regenerative switch,” changing the signaling pathways for hematopoietic stem cells, which are responsible for the generation of blood and immune systems, the research showed."

Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system

The people that Travis mentioned go way back to the real "natural" days. Herbert Shelton, Hereward Carrington and others. Apparently there used to be clinics all over the place in the 1800's and early 1900's for MSWOF but they were shut down by the gov't. Then the ketogenic diet was developed to try to mimic the water-only state. I understand peoples skepticism. People should be skeptical of everything in the health world. But I personally find MSWOF fascinating because when you look at the research and the physiology of the body at the same time and it matches up, I get that lightbulb moment. This is what the human body does. It's built for this. It was designed by nature for this. Of course there are people who go their whole long lives without ever entering water-only induced ketosis. But it's just another area of the alt-health world and since we're doused with toxins from modern industry, many of which have only been around for a couple of grandparents, it may be an important thing to do, if you care to. There are people who find out about it, do it and benefit from it based on their writings and videos. So that's currently the bulk or the "data." But people say that about almost everything in the alt-health world. Therefore, do your research. Do what makes sense to you and never take anyones word for anything. But I assume that's common sense.