Did Gbolduev Have Any Evidence To Back Up His Claims About PH?

[paymanz]

thyroid(potassium)

Where this one comes from?!

"Potassium(inside the cell) makes the cell sensitive to thyroid"

Anyone knows a reference for this?!

 

[Xisca]

This is directed to all the people who followed him.

He went on quite often about it, it was an important part of his theory.

There are pages of him talking about it, six pages in fact.

Is there any actual actual evidence of normal people with non-life-threatening conditions having ph outside of 7.35-7.45? I know @haidut said he hadn't seen severe ph imbalance except in a few really serious cases.

Follow is a big word, as some just listened! Made changes and got some + results. And then started looking for informations.

He never stated "having ph outside of 7.35-7.45"
We all talk about pH variation in this narrow range! Only!
Then you can see that you make a misunderstanding from the start, as what he said does not need back up for this pH topic.

And thus that Buteyko breathing is not for people having respiratory acidosis!
Then it is difficult to understand that pH varies for different reasons, how to know etc.

 

[Xisca]

Click to expand... answers inside!

Yes and no. He constantly talked about how people were supposed to open anesthesiology textbooks, and that all the PH stuff was right there to be had. So there was some basis of looking at blood gas levels and making determinations.

yes

However, he constantly went very far in his proclamations and contradicted himself. I read most of his posts, and I think he was the classic case of having some very solid info at the core of what he was talking about, and then using that core to weave a mythos around himself, making it very hard to see where the truth stopped and the falsehood began.

he still does contradicts himself, but says we all check about theories, so when he is either wrong or when he sees there is a new informations, he seems to have no shame in telling it!

Some of his info was very useful, and I have used HCL with meals on his recommendation to bring down my Co2 levels in my Veinous blood, and feel great from it.

I think there is more than pH and co2 in this...

However, a lot of people were sucked into his fasting stuff, and are probably being made worse from it.

No, better, starting with me, fasting with veg juice 1 week and then 1 week raw veg, as I was not feeling like eating! I still have bad results when I try to eat more fruits... as I will not let my chirimoyas rot in the garden, no way!!!!!! lol

Others who fasted are remarkably happy!

If you can resist the pull of the cult of personality, and fasting-quick-fix, he has some decent info that may give you some ideas.

Those who want to hurry are just under pressure to solve a problem, and are not encouraged like this, and the reverse of the quick fix is looked for! But the fasting does make surprisingly fast and durable changes, though it is more of a regular practise to keep as in old traditions....

 

[Xisca]

For studies, yes you read eerything and the reverse, and not all parameters are there, and Peat talked about the Burrs' mistake because of the bad diet choice for the protocole! So studies are too easy AND week to rely upon, though some can be useful and gb states some too.

It's just that it's rarer for it to appear out of range because the effort is put to keep it as stable as possible, so the problems tend to appear on the compensation, especially if it's chronic and subtle.

Yes that's it, that is why he advised hair mineral analysis. Yet difficult to interpret too! If it was easy the job would be done already.

But the point is not an imbalanced pH, it's how the body is trying or what it's compromizing to normalize it.

I sense some encouragement for depency in his tone, but on the other hand it's difficult to ask someone that knows a lot "how did you learn your stuff?".

So NO again, no dependency but sharing theory and trying to get people involved to learn and look for informations and make trials. With diet and exercise as long as it is possible with no supp. and great care when using supps. I got side effects from sugar diet even good fruits and also form progest-e. I think hot flushes stopped after just startingto fast, or even lowered just after changing diet with less fruits, and for sure it comes back if I lower vegs and up fruits! Each time I have some crash, though less and shorter. And no crash while fasting, I could even start gardening again before finishing!

And this will not work for all people, but hair test came back as a slow oxidizer type 1. with low thyroid and adrenals, both. And low copper, maybe linked to progesterone and zinc supp.

 

[AretnaP]

Follow is a big word, as some just listened! Made changes and got some + results. And then started looking for informations.

He never stated "having ph outside of 7.35-7.45"
We all talk about pH variation in this narrow range! Only!
Then you can see that you make a misunderstanding from the start, as what he said does not need back up for this pH topic.

And thus that Buteyko breathing is not for people having respiratory acidosis!
Then it is difficult to understand that pH varies for different reasons, how to know etc.

PH variations inside this narrow range will not result in either acidosis or alkalosis.

 

[Xisca]

"...so it happens that starvation, or radiation, or estrogen will all shift our oxidation from sugar to fat....
One of the special problems of fasting, if you've been eating Polyunsaturated fats in the past is that it gives you a pure diet of polyunsaturated fats with a terrific amount of oxidation byproducts when you go into a starvation state...
They specifically spoil the ability of the enzymes to produce energy from...from anything, especially from sugar, and a failure to produce energy is almost exactly the definition of stress, anything that makes you lack energy IS stress. It turns on the whole system of responses to stress."

from KMUD: 12-12 Dementia, Progesterone, Fasting, Fish Oil, Testosterone, Red Light

If you don't agree with this, then why are you even on the Ray Peat Forum? Just to argue?

I agree withh what my body feels, and for some metabolisms fasting works and what you wrote from Peat does not produce what is said! What peat says here puts people who are not in the right context in a FEAR and helpless state!
I tryed to get energy from sugar during 2 years and my organic acid test showed I had a problem with sugar but not fat metabolism! And if the adrenal problem is not looked after before the thyroid problem, then supp with thyroid will not help. I have even been to tpauk forum to check out a few things and baught the book of the guy they follow there...

Followers are followers,,,, and even Peat do not ask anybody to follow...

 

[Xisca]

PH variations inside this narrow range will not result in either acidosis or alkalosis.

Words are always deceiving when used in a slghtly different way, as when peat uses badly the word glycolisis, as a short cut to say something a bit different that would be longer!

Herre it means more acid or more alkaline, though in a range over 7, alkaline. This is about blood, but cells have different pH, inside, outside and even in different parts of the cell! And organs have different pH, and stomach, and then duodenum, and even mouth, urine....

So you can guess where is the shift called alkalosis or acidosis... within the narrow range... though all above pH 7, yes!
And when you add more complicated things, like is the pH variation from respiration, lower co2 making blood more alkaline, or pH variation from metabolism, higher bicarb making ALSO blood more alkaline!

You see why he could not explain all, and mattyB neither!? And in these cases, you have problems making HCl if I remember well. Then you digest protein bad, etc etc, as amino acids are needed for the endocrine system, and then you get hormonal problems.

Breethe right, exercise to burn fuel, have a good posture, make your blood flow, geet some sun, and then get some olive oil even with some of its pufa so that you eliminate garbage through bile, and you have some natural real basis that our recent ancesters did not even have to think about!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Xisca]

The idea that people who fast are a certain type is an interesting thought, I think it also goes hand-in-hand with the anorexic and bulimic pathology. There is something to that need to feel "clean," perhaps from some deep rooted self-hatred that makes one feel dirty because of fat and any other so-called impurities (like sugar!) It's interesting because we have been brainwashed to believe that saturated fats and sugar are "bad" and things like water and fish oil are salutary. So opposite. And the most ironic thing is that the starver effectively forces him or herself to fuel the body with rancid PUFAs! It's almost like a symptom of the lies that our so-called health system is built on.

You might also been brainwashed on this take....
All who fasted said they ended up better, and also were feelimg better and better DURING the fast.
And fast is ok only for slow oxidizers....

And going into psycho stuff for people having metabolic problem is really hurting people having problems in their body.... If you have once been in that case for something you found legitimate for yourself, please remember it, so that you can apply it to others....
Using words like starving and pathology is very depreciative, and feels better for me if i find it funny, while remembering how much I was starving every 2 hours after meals with mainly carbs, though with high proteins and right fats, and now I eat less and do not feel I starve! And I feel less ill!

And I still have carrot, and had the opportunity to eat oysters this w-e, plus some beef liver and plenty of fish!

And I can eat some almonds wthout calling them impurity....
Still hope i will loose the little ugly fat I now have for the 1st time in my life under my skin.... yes this called orange skin that I never had in my life but gained mainly when I ate hagen daaz! And started to have some with coconut oil and sugar. I rally liked the type of fat I had before much better than the one I see in my body now! No matter the theory and explanation, i can just see it and when it started. Sorry I have no group to compare in my own study!

 

[Xisca]

Hmmmmmmm, wow! Thanks for the insight. Something to consider for sure. I think I would consider doing a fast of just vegetable broth because anytime I have just used water I have gotten severe headaches which makes me think I just have too much FFA and it just overwhelms me. I definitely have a bit of stubborn belly fat that won't quite go away, although it got pretty low when I had low stress and a really high quality t3 supplement (cytomel). The other thing I would be concerned about is low calcium. I recently got a TSH profile and I was in the upper 5's. I also had really low vitamin D, below 25. Perhaps if I used kale as part of my broth? Did you make your own broth when you did it or did you just use whatever the medical pros gave you?

You have to be sure of your metabolism type...
I am also low in vit D, seems that my body did on purpose, as I have too much calcium compared to phosphorus and potassium!
I drank more when fasting, for sure.
I also got sme headache and was nauseous even before I started. i fasted because I was nauseous from gall bladder pain. This has gone. You can also have flue symotoms at the beginning.
I did veg juicing, not broth.
If you do not know what to eat when you go out of fast, you can ruin your efforts.

 

[Kartoffel]

You might also been brainwashed on this take....
All who fasted said they ended up better, and also were feelimg better and better DURING the fast.
And fast is ok only for slow oxidizers....

And going into psycho stuff for people having metabolic problem is really hurting people having problems in their body.... If you have once been in that case for something you found legitimate for yourself, please remember it, so that you can apply it to others....
Using words like starving and pathology is very depreciative, and feels better for me if i find it funny, while remembering how much I was starving every 2 hours after meals with mainly carbs, though with high proteins and right fats, and now I eat less and do not feel I starve! And I feel less ill!

And I still have carrot, and had the opportunity to eat oysters this w-e, plus some beef liver and plenty of fish!

And I can eat some almonds wthout calling them impurity....
Still hope i will loose the little ugly fat I now have for the 1st time in my life under my skin.... yes this called orange skin that I never had in my life but gained mainly when I ate hagen daaz! And started to have some with coconut oil and sugar. I rally liked the type of fat I had before much better than the one I see in my body now! No matter the theory and explanation, i can just see it and when it started. Sorry I have no group to compare in my own study!

Weird. All the people I know personally, who tried fasting for more than 2-3 days, said they felt like ***t, couldn't sleep, focus, or work/study. I know no one that was able to continue it for more than 10 days. Probably they were all fast oxidizers, which is odd since the great gbol said that most people are slow oxdizers. As far as I can see the categories "slow" and "fast" oxidizers don't relate to anything in the real world. Can you briefly outline what distinguishes one from the other?

 

[Xisca]

I can see already the tone of the topic having some evolution!
I am not over the 10 pages....

I am currently on day 47 of a 54 day Breuss fast, no supervision, all is going well. Heart rate has stayed at 78-80 BPM, waking basal temps have stayed at 98.

Continue to walk 45mins every day(light weight lighting once per week), work 5 days week, single parent to preteen, sleeping well, lost lots of fat(195 to 165 so far), muscle seems to have maintained size.

Main issues were acne, dandruff and shedding, and skin has cleared dramatically, dandruff gone, shedding has slowed, but looking forward to refeeding next week(proper breaking protocol, then following a slow oxidizer diet), to see how these stick.

I did full RP for close to one year not getting the results I wanted, so this was the next experiment, and has really been eye opening.

It up-regulates all your hormonal receptors since your body isn't taking anything in, in order to compensate, which starts to make you sensitive to hormones again, hence the T spike and improved insulin sensitivity post fast.

Hi guys!

Great, I had not yet talked about maintaining activity and having sensitive hormones again.... I really am less hungry because of cortisol sensitivity change probably!

 

[Xisca]

That's interesting about the high progesterone results. This might be a stupid question, but couldn't that be due to progestins, or pharmaceutical "progesterone?" Those are just as toxic as estrogens.

I have problems with only taking progest-e for 2 years regularly, so not even synthetic progestin...

 

[Xisca]

I get what you're saying and I'm usually very good at cutting through the bulls*t. But when you guys get to talking about Gbold it's just way over my head. I feel like I'm watching heavyweights go at it. Neither side sounds dumb to me and I never really hear anyone admit to defeat.

It's like two seemingly intelligent camps not being able to come to an agreement and they have very different opinions and dire consequences.

Anyone have anything to say about Gbold saying sugar is bad but still eating rice??

He never said sugar was bad, as he said fast oxidizers are doing good with it! HE does better with rice and advise to try, then you see by yourself!

I also know people who can only eat rice as carb! Nothing to do with sugar, food is more than this!

gb always was saying and still say that there are different cases: something is high or low, then the rest is domino effect, and if it was easy to know what is the 1st domino, it would be known!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RP is focussed on some types of metabolism and does not talk about all cases that much. He tells about what he studied, and also about what worked for him, without giving that many clues about how to know if you are in a case close to his. He talks more about low thyroid than low adrenals, more about need of B3, that i was told to not take according to my hair test results....

Also I forgot to say that when Ii stopped progest-e, I stopped peeing at night and sleep better for this reason and the rest goes better of course!

 

[Xisca]

One thing I have noticed is that people tend to become disillusioned with Peat and his ideas after they have used these things to successfully treat themselves, which I think is very strange.

I also had energy at the beginning, before i saw I had to eat each time more frecuently for example. For others the problem came from starting digestive issues, so it was not sustainable.

i remember having success with antibiotics a few time, but only to get ill again 3 months after. This is what i got more or less. Now I reduce sugar and dairies and feel much better.

The dillusion is like with gardening without adding the right compost: after some times you reach unsustainability.... Life is very strong and resist well!
Success and fail, same happen with many medical treatment too! Solve an issue and get another! Well, when you avoid death, it is still worth it.

gbol says he looks not for the quick patch but for the solid path.

 

[Xisca]

But all of this bantering and taking shots at each other is mighty fun and all, but we should try to make things constructive. I am very interested in learning why fasting helps PFS, and I am hoping for a more detailed explanation that "upregulating" receptors because I personally don't hold a ton of stock in receptor theory.

Well, you know where guys have posted their logs if you want to ask them! About receptors, well, it works the same as why we have too much insuline in blood: because it does not do its job and cells are closed, same for thyroid.

If you understand insuline resistance, you understand resistance for other substances!

It would be the same as needing more alcohol to get drunk, or getting used to cigarettes etc!

I didn't really make fun of his theories, his claim that sunlight has little to nothing to do with Vit D is some what... dubious.

I was surprised but understood this with my hair test: I have to much ca compared to other minerals, though my Ca is in the perfect range. More vitD would risk to change the ratio in the bad direction.

He did not meat it had nothing to do, but that there are more reasns, and that the vody can do the necessary even if you are in the sun!

Here's my official position on muscle/estrogen: Estrogen, by causing water retention in the muscle, has a creatine-like effect on strength.

Not estrogen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
EXCESS estrogens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The mistake has always been with words when humans do not understand each other....

I also obviously do not agree with his idea that blood PH is something that has to be constantly monitored in most people

The body monitors itself for the the best he can feel and the best it can do.
Sometimes, less bad is the best she can do....

don't think most people will fully accept the ideas behind fasting since the practitioners and authors who have constructed the core ideological framework behind it (i.e. Shelton; Ehret) write in a very anti‐cooking, anti‐dairy, anti‐meat language (with a few exceptions).

Yeah, in the nervous systemm we talk about over-coupling...................................................
I have gained a lot BTW when starting to cook much less again!
Raw food benefit is incredible. I have problemm with it only when I mix with cooked starch!

I'd be willing to try fasting if I thought it would benefit me, but I dismiss it because many on here warn that it will have many negative consequences and ultimately be destructive to health.

That is what I found dangerous! Make you afraid by telling you only one helf and not giving you the possibility to know if you are part of the people who can orr cannot!

I agree with him on zinc, high-zinc diets seem to be better for preventing hypothyroidism than high-copper diets.

That is not what Gbol said. He never suggests a diet to be high in zinc, but a balanced diet (he talks about copper all the time),

Thanks Tub!
And also a diet according to your analysis results. My copper and zinc ratios are reverse one the other in blood and hair!
@AretnaP you have to get more fluent -like me in englush, sorry- in context use. there are no high or low what ever that are better, if you do not know the rest.
I am slow oxidizer with slow thyroid and adrenals, and I am low in copper in my tissues, and still cannot know if I am high in cells... I can be copper toxic or zinc toxic or iron toxic.... Even mercury from removing fillings still do not appear in my analysis!

This thread got intentionally sidetracked from talking about PH level, more specifically evidence that PH can be outside of normal range for long periods in people without extreme conditions, to talking about fasting.

If anybody ever posts in this thread ever again after this I would like to let it be know that there has been no actual evidence of anything so far, unless you count "if u read anesthesiology u will see that ph is what body is after first of all for some co2 is good for other it death LOL" as evidence.

I HOPE YOU UNDERSTOOD THE MERE LANGUAGE MISTAKE THAT CAUSED THIS?
I have explained from the start just because i started to answer BEFORE reading all the 10 pages!

 

[Regina]

Weird. All the people I know personally, who tried fasting for more than 2-3 days, said they felt like ***t, couldn't sleep, focus, or work/study. I know no one that was able to continue it for more than 10 days. Probably they were all fast oxidizers, which is odd since the great gbol said that most people are slow oxdizers. As far as I can see the categories "slow" and "fast" oxidizers don't relate to anything in the real world. Can you briefly outline what distinguishes one from the other?

 

[Mito]

About receptors, well, it works the same as why we have too much insuline in blood: because it does not do its job and cells are closed, same for thyroid.

Do you understand why the cell is closed to insulin?

 

[Xisca]

Do you understand why the cell is closed to insulin?

@Travis might say if I am right or wrong, or look right now at my just posted answer in another thread.....
protein problem!

 

[Mito]

@Travis might say if I am right or wrong, or look right now at my just posted answer in another thread.....
protein problem!

The easiest to understand explanation I’ve come across was in a Chris Masterjohn podcast. He uses biochemical and physiological explanations as to why cells are “ignoring the instructions” of insulin. Below is a portion of the transcribed podcast. Later in the podcast he goes into detail on more of the specific things that regulate whether a cell “decides” to respond to insulin.

“So endocrine hormones, which are signaling compounds that circulate through the general circulation – the bloodstream as we usually think of it – and tell some other tissue, or cells in other tissues from which – in tissues that are not the same tissues that are secreting that signaling compound – tell those other tissues what to do, or tell the cells within those tissues what to do. So if you have insulin, for example, it’s made by the pancreas in response to various factors, especially carbohydrate intake. And then it’s circulating through the blood and then it’s telling cells in other tissues such as adipose tissue, such as the brain, such as skeletal muscle – it’s telling them to do certain things in response to the perceived needs of the body as a whole. But then those cells that are supposed to respond to that hormone, they have their own needs and they have their own priorities. And so the cell has to survey all of these different signals coming from outside itself, and then it needs to take that information and incorporate it into a model that includes information from inside the cell about the needs, the abilities and the priorities of that cell for its own survival, whether to respond and how to respond to those hormones. And it’s not so much that the cell is being selfish in this regard, as much as it is that the – it’s in the interests of the body for the cells to protect themselves, because if all of the cells are going to obey the commands of circulating hormones to their own detriment, then all of the cells can die, because they’re trying to unselfishly meet the needs of the body, and then the body’s going to be like, oh crap, kinda don’t have any cells anymore, what am I going to do? So in making this executive decision, I believe that one of the main drivers of insulin response is cellular energy overload, such that the cell says yes, I see these signals that are telling me that it’s in the body’s interest for me to take in more energy and to do something with that energy such as store it or metabolize it, so that it can produce useful fuel. But at this particular time, in this particular context I don’t have the capacity to take in any more energy in a healthy way, and therefore I am not going to take it in.”

 

[Xisca]

@Mito did you look at what he said for proteins?
Yes you are right and i understand also the energy factor as in this trancript i thank you for, as I need this kind of informations. Thishas a lot to do with the mineral ratios, that tell about energy and what goes in our out the cell.
I see it also as a screen, and that the cell can have some problems to filter what can come in or not. Some people can go out the house and block the dog, and others will let the dog excape and then will be afraid to open the door!