Molecular Hydrogen And Dr. Peat's Interest

BigPapaChakra

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Just wanted to post about something that some of the awesome people at this forum may find interesting. I recently came across molecular hydrogen via an online acquaintance. Molecular hydrogen can be used as a medical gas, a saline, put into drinking water, etc. It has some amazing effects, and some of them seemed Peaty. So, I decided to send Dr. Peat some information. I'll post our email correspondence below, in addition to some other information:

"Hey there Dr. Peat, hope you're doing well! I just wanted to send some studies/sources and names of researchers your way. I've learned an incredible amount of information from your interviews and articles, in addition to our many emails, so it's only right that I send some things your way that you may find enlightening, or, at least interesting.

I have an acquaintance that does a lot of research at his local college/university, and I believe recently started working in the field of biology or bio-tech (not sure on the specifics). Anyhow, he is the person who first sent me studies from Tina Karu and others doing work with red and near-infrared lasers and LEDs for healing traumatic brain injuries.

Recently, he started speaking to Tyler LeBaron, a biochemist who is also an adjunct instructor of physiology at Brigham Young University Idaho. Tyler started investigating molecular hydrogen, and found that it actually has some really incredible effects, particularly for healing and anti-aging. When I first heard of this, I thought it was a little bizarre, but then again 2-3 years ago I wasn't even aware that we are "magneto-sensitive" organisms, primed by external factors which govern circadian rhythms, etc. and all of this can be understood and used for our own benefit.

Here are some studies that are interesting:

Drinking Hydrogen Water Ameliorated Cognitive Impairment in Senescence-Accelerated Mice. Yeunhwa Gu, Chien-Sheng Huang, [...], and Atsunori Nakao

Hydrogen-rich saline improves memory function in a rat model of amyloid-beta-induced Alzheimer's disease by reduction of oxidative stress
Jian Lia, Cai Wanga, John H. Zhangb, Jian-Mei Caic, Yun-Peng Caoa, , , Xue-Jun Sunc


Supplementation of hydrogen-rich water improves lipid and glucose metabolism in patients with type 2 diabetes or impaired glucose tolerance

Sizuo Kajiyama, Goji Hasegawaemail, Mai Asano, Hiroko Hosoda, Michiaki Fukui, Naoto Nakamura, Jo Kitawaki, Saeko Imai, Koji Nakano, Mitsuhiro Ohta, Tetsuo Adachi, Hiroshi Obayashi, Toshikazu Yoshikawa

Radioprotective effect of hydrogen in cultured cells and mice
March 2010, Vol. 44, No. 3 , Pages 275-282
Liren Qian, Fei Cao, Jianguo Cui, Yuecheng Huang, Xiaojian Zhou, Shulin Liu, and Jianming Cai

A Ofan et al 2011 Nanotechnology 22 285309 doi:10.1088/0957-4484/22/28/285309

Large-area regular nanodomain patterning in He-irradiated lithium niobate crystals


Here is Tyler's site http://www.molecularhydrogeninstitute.com/about/

Hope you find this of interest. Have a great day!"

(Dr. Peat) "Thanks, I didn't know about Tyler's thing. Have you seen my July and September newsletters? I've been warning about the dangers of antioxidative excess, i.e., reductive stress.

Do you have a copy of the Ofan, et al., article with images? ("The domain patterns were imaged by piezoresponse force microscopy and investigated by domain-selective etching in conjunction with focused ion beam etching followed by scanning electron microscopy imaging.") This behavior of crystal domains would be most meaningful in the context of Michael Polanyi's work with crystals and polymers, 1920-1926, and Alexandre Rothen's adsorption experiments, in the 1960s and '70s.

http://www.molecularhydrogeninstitute.com/core-information/orp-meters-principles-and-misconceptions/ Tyler's discussion of pH and redox is better than nearly all the stuff on the internet, including the pages of the big companies that sell the instruments (which are mostly misleading junk). Where are the references for that page? I'm curious about reference 15 (for the sentence "Cells have their voltage....")."

I proceeded to tell him more, and told him I'd look into finding those resources through my acquaintance. He was then generous enough to send me some of his recent newsletters, which corroborates with some of what Tyler discusses on his site.

A few people at this longecity thread (http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/63 ... ts/page-68) have started experimenting with hydrogen water. The machines that truly make it are roughly $900, but someone found that in one study the researchers included how it was made, by using elemental magnesium rods. Some people at the forum have been experimenting with using this method, which if proven effective, would make H2 water possible to consume for under $100. One person uses the device that I think Tyler recommends, and has said this, "The science looks extremely promising and my experience so far (my generator arrived on Thur) has been very good. I would describe it as a very pure sense of mental clarity. I don't feel stimulated or energized per se, but just clear. I'm pretty excited to see what this stuff is like over the next couple of weeks. (...) I'm coming up on two weeks now with the generator and I am really liking this stuff. I'm drinking about 2L per day and I feel very clear headed. I'm currently trying out different waters with it to see if I notice any differences. I'll keep you guys updated." I then asked for some elaborations, and he stated, "2. I used 'clearheaded' to distinguish it from 'stimulatory'. It's not really stimulating at all. The best way to describe it for me is 'removal of impedances' or 'complete lack of brain fog'. It is as though I have extremely quick and complete access to everything in my head. So...it is somewhat similar to LLLT in that regard. I haven't noticed an increase in mental endurance like I get with LLLT (but, of course, I'm still using LLLT so confounders abound. ha). I would (very) tentatively say improved mood and slightly less need for sleep but I'll have to get back to you on that."

Interestingly, there are many studies on all different forms of molecular hydrogen. The people in that forum thread have just started using it in water, but I suspect that a combination of methods of administration - water, transdermal, saline in the eyes/nose, produced by gut bacteria, etc - would prove most effective. From some of the studies, it seems as though it would have a very significant synergy with light; light, even red and infrared, drastically increases ROS production. This is good, but too much can cause seemingly negative effects, hence why many of the studies on transcranial and intranasal LLLT show a biphasic dose response curve. H2 appears to largely, potentially even completely, protect healthy cells from excess ROS. Meaning, one could, in theory, increase their 'dose' of light, yet not overwhelm their cells. It also prevents a variety of different forms of excitotoxicity, degeneration, and more. Later I'll post about a spice that I discussed on the facebook groups and how it is in fact rather Peaty, despite it being seemingly not Peaty at first glance, and how it actually promotes H2 production which, when produced in the gut, may have implications for schizophrenia and similar disorders, and even increasing intelligence. Hopefully this wasn't too large of a post :?
 
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Isn't H+ the Lewis acid? In time I have grown a skeptical eye to subjective feeling reports from that forum. The "brain fog lifting" in particular I've read many many times (it magically stops working after a few days). Also beware when they say "I'm taking nothing else" since in their mind that equals a multivitamin, fish oil, vitamin C, and creatine at the very least.
 
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Thanks BPC, There's a fair amount to read here. It looks like Tyler is debunking much of the "misleading junk" (Peat's phrase) that companies claim about their various ionizing or alkalizing water machines. I really appreciate that.

I don't know how much -ORP could actually be absorbed from water, when compared to the redox balancing that Peat describes in the cells. You may need so much water, you might literally drown.

You could ask Tyler what he thinks, but as a practical matter, it seems that a magnesium water made from magnesium oxide and carbonated water would be approximately as great of a -ORP as any water made with a machine, and, perhaps more importantly, provide beneficial magnesium and carbonates, as well.
 

BigPapaChakra

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Such_Saturation said:
Isn't H+ the Lewis acid? In time I have grown a skeptical eye to subjective feeling reports from that forum. The "brain fog lifting" in particular I've read many many times (it magically stops working after a few days). Also beware when they say "I'm taking nothing else" since in their mind that equals a multivitamin, fish oil, vitamin C, and creatine at the very least.

Yes, it is; can basically accept non-bonded electrons.

I agree with your observations, especially in terms of that particular forum. The only thing is, the guy who said that on the forum is the acquaintance I described to Dr. Peat. I speak with him personally from time to time (much more in the past, though). He does use many other things. That being said, he typically adds one thing at a time, for at least a few weeks; additionally, he's (1) got no health problems whatsoever (or at least ones that he can notice without extensive testing), and (2) has done A LOT of things that leads to lasting physical and mental enhancement, for instance, transcranial LLLT and TULIP, nIR HEG neurofeedback, HRV biofeedback, daily whole body vibration, pregnenolone, I think NSI-189 (causes neural progenitor cell maturation in the hippocampus), etc. and so, if he adds one thing that causes a noticeable improvement in cognition and mood, it's probably pretty awesome, haha. I can't say yet, though, because I have yet to try it!
 

BigPapaChakra

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visionofstrength said:
Thanks BPC, There's a fair amount to read here. It looks like Tyler is debunking much of the "misleading junk" (Peat's phrase) that companies claim about their various ionizing or alkalizing water machines. I really appreciate that.

I don't know how much -ORP could actually be absorbed from water, when compared to the redox balancing that Peat describes in the cells. You may need so much water, you might literally drown.

You could ask Tyler what he thinks, but as a practical matter, it seems that a magnesium water made from magnesium oxide and carbonated water would be approximately as great of a -ORP as any water made with a machine, and, perhaps more importantly, provide beneficial magnesium and carbonates, as well.

Yeah, I was planning on asking Tyler in the near future. From what I know of him currently, he's really excited about this molecular hydrogen stuff, especially in how it can be used in the medical field and for anti-aging and the like. As he describes, which is kind of what Dr. Peat alluded to in his email to me, it isn't like an antioxidant in that it appears to cause no "antioxidant excess". You can go to the "studies" page on Tyler's site and take a look - there's surprisingly a lot of data on hydrogen water, even in humans; and again, there's also the saline solutions (often applied to the eyes), medical gas, etc.

I've long been interested in this kind of stuff, because before when I was writing articles for Ben Greenfield, I found some studies on "electrokinetically modified water" causing enhanced recovery in participants in various studies. To me, this indicated that there is something to "structured water". I then went back to Dr. Peat's "Mind and Tissue", and he in fact discussed magnetically treated water, and other forms of modified water, and how it led to drastically different health effects than 'normal' water. He briefly discusses this in his "Biophysical Approaches to Altered States of Consciousness" article, too. I then discovered RNS60 (http://revalesio.com/about-our-technology/), a form of structured water that is actually undergoing Phase I and II clinical trials for everything from Asthma to MS.

I'm more interested in this, now, because I wouldn't have to worry about purchasing a bunch of other things to assess if what I did to water had an impact on it. If I wanted to do a little experiment, with H water, I could get a basic cardiovascular panel, with lipids, hs CRP, homocysteine, and then track my temps each day, and then after 30 days get the labs again, and see if what is shown in the literature stacks up to my experience.
 

BigPapaChakra

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Here are a couple of other studies:

Molecular hydrogen: an overview of its neurobiological effects and therapeutic potential for bipolar disorder and schizophrenia http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3680337/

Hydrogen in Drinking Water Reduces Dopaminergic Neuronal Loss in the 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine Mouse Model of Parkinson's Disease

It has been shown that molecular hydrogen (H2) acts as a therapeutic antioxidant and suppresses brain injury by buffering the effects of oxidative stress. Chronic oxidative stress causes neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's disease (PD). Here, we show that drinking H2-containing water significantly reduced the loss of dopaminergic neurons in PD model mice using both acute and chronic administration of 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyri​dine(MPTP). The concentration-dependency of H2 showed that H2 as low as 0.08 ppm had almost the same effect as saturated H2 water (1.5 ppm). MPTP-induced accumulation of cellular 8-oxoguanine (8-oxoG), a marker of DNA damage, and 4-hydroxynonenal (4-HNE), a marker of lipid peroxidation were significantly decreased in the nigro-striatal dopaminergic pathway in mice drinking H2-containing water, whereas production of superoxide (O2•−) detected by intravascular injection of dihydroethidium (DHE) was not reduced significantly. Our results indicated that low concentration of H2 in drinking water can reduce oxidative stress in the brain. Thus, drinking H2-containing water may be useful in daily life to prevent or minimize the risk of life style-related oxidative stress and neurodegeneration.


Effectiveness of Hydrogen Rich Water on Antioxidant Status of Subjects with Potential Metabolic Syndrome

Metabolic syndrome is characterized by cardiometabolic risk factors that include obesity, insulin resistance, hypertension and dyslipidemia. Oxidative stress is known to play a major role in the pathogenesis of metabolic syndrome. The objective of this study was to examine the effectiveness of hydrogen rich water (1.5–2 L/day) in an open label, 8-week study on 20 subjects with potential metabolic syndrome. Hydrogen rich water was produced, by placing a metallic magnesium stick into drinking water (hydrogen concentration; 0.55–0.65 mM), by the following chemical reaction; Mg + 2H2O → Mg (OH)2 + H2. The consumption of hydrogen rich water for 8 weeks resulted in a 39% increase (p<0.05) in antioxidant enzyme superoxide dismutase (SOD) and a 43% decrease (p<0.05) in thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARS) in urine. Further, subjects demonstrated an 8% increase in high density lipoprotein (HDL)-cholesterol and a 13% decrease in total cholesterol/HDL-cholesterol from baseline to week 4. There was no change in fasting glucose levels during the 8 week study. In conclusion, drinking hydrogen rich water represents a potentially novel therapeutic and preventive strategy for metabolic syndrome. The portable magnesium stick was a safe, easy and effective method of delivering hydrogen rich water for daily consumption by participants in the study.
 

aguilaroja

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Such_Saturation said:
Isn't H+ the Lewis acid? In time I have grown a skeptical eye to subjective feeling reports....

Yes, H+ can serve as a Lewis acid. Also, proton exchange (the hydrogen cation, or H+) is the hallmark of the Brønsted–Lowry acid-base exchange. So attention is still needed for distinguishing between the systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_acid ... wry_Theory

"A Lewis base is also a Brønsted–Lowry base, but a Lewis acid doesn't need to be a Brønsted–Lowry acid."

I concur that there's lots of insistent wishful thinking in some web reports, "subjective experience" even before motives of commerce.
 
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BigPapaChakra said:
The portable magnesium stick was a safe, easy and effective method of delivering hydrogen rich water for daily consumption by participants in the study.[/b]
Have you tried a magnesium stick? Which one? I see a popular one for $67, that needs to be replaced every year or two (see review below). Do you know if Tyler has measured the hydrogen concentration from magnesium sticks, or compared them to carbonated water mixed with magnesium oxide?

Tyler mentions that there is a method for super-saturating water with molecular hydrogen, so that (he suggests) you don't need to drink so much water. Do you know what that method is?

I'm also wondering how well the H+ makes it into the body if you drink it in plain water, as compared to whether it's better transported in the magnesium oxide/carbonated water mix.

I also see this Amazon review about the magnesium stick:

Verified Purchaser said:
The stick definitely forms hydrogen bubbles
By Ted Ichino on December 10, 2010
Verified Purchase
I revised this review to make it more readable. The scientific citations have been moved to the end and new headings have been created. Those readers who want details and rigor can refer to the NOTES AND REFERENCES section at the end of the review. If this is not enough, the interested reader can Google the original articles and read them for him- or herself.

DISCLAIMERS

There is no way that buying a $875 - $4000 machine was in the cards for me, so I performed no investigation on alkaline water. Maybe alkaline water works; maybe it doesn't. I was interested in Hayashi's claim that it was the hydrogen dissolved in the water that has a therapeutic effect rather than in the water's alkalinity or Oxidation/Reduction Potential.

I do not sell Hydrogen Sticks, nor do I have any financial interest in the sale of Hydrogen Sticks.

What follows is not to be construed as medical advice.

While I have attempted to perform a sanity check for myself, this sanity check was to informal personal standards which may not satisfy the standards of a given reader.

REASONS NOT TO BUY THE HYDROGEN STICK

Alkaline Tap Water. The hydrogen stick relies on a chemical reaction between water and metallic magnesium: Mg + 2H2O -> Mg (OH)2 + H2. This reaction proceeds faster in an acidic environment and slower in an alkaline environment. Therefore, if your tap water is exceptionally alkaline, the hydrogen stick is probably not for you, unless you are willing to use bottled water instead of tap water. Or instead of using bottled water, maybe you could acidify the tap water with vinegar, bringing it to a more neutral pH - it's worth a try. On the other hand, if your water is really acidic, my guess is that the hydrogen stick will produce bubbles like crazy but probably won't last very long. Any water with a fairly neutral pH - say 7.0 or 8.0 - should be fine. 636cathleen (creator of the "Don't Buy the Hydrogen Stick" YouTube videos) has tap water that is extremely alkaline - pH 10.1, so her poor results with the Hydrogen Stick are understandable and predictable.

Drinking Habits - You Like to Drink Water Constantly Throughout the Day. The instructions for the stick emphasize that once you get it wet, you need to keep it wet. If you are the kind of person who sucks water all day long from a bottle, keeping the stick wet can be a problem - especially if you plan to use multiple sticks in a single bottle. Sergey Manukyan's review mentions the difficulty of maintaining the stick, and he makes an excellent point. I am not a big water drinker, so this problem didn't affect me, but if you are someone who wants to drink hydrogen-rich water all day long, keeping your bottle topped off will be a pain. Personally, I chug a bunch of hydrogen-rich water in the morning, top off, and then chug a bunch more at night and top off again. If you sip water all day long, it would be a hassle to keep the bottle topped off - you'd need a source of water and a way to top off the hydrogen water bottle without spilling the water and making a mess. If you happen to be near a drinking fountain or a Sparkletts water dispenser this is probably not a big deal, but if you don't have ready access to a water supply it's something to seriously consider before buying the stick.

HOW I HEARD ABOUT THE HYDROGEN STICK

I first stumbled across Hydrogen Sticks on eBay, when I searched for "alkaline water ionizer" and strange entries about plastic sticks and other entries about assorted rocks encased in stainless steel sticks popped up. I read an Ebay description for the Hydrogen-Rich Water Stick (Water Ionizer Outperforms Machines alkaline ORP pH) with a great deal of skepticism, but decided to do a little research before discounting it - primarily due to the huge difference between the cost of the Hydrogen-Rich Water Stick and that of a typical water-ionizer machine ($75 vs. $875-4000).

WHY I DECIDED TO BUY A HYDROGEN STICK

It Really Does Put Hydrogen Gas Into Water. The presence of molecular hydrogen gas in water treated with a Hydrogen Stick was confirmed by a scientific study: "The hydrogen concentration in a water bottle was maintained between 0.55 and 0.65 mM over an 8 week period." (H2 exists as a gas at Standard Temperature and Pressure.) However, the study used 2 sticks per 500ml - four times the concentration of the 1 stick per 1L that I use.

Antioxidant Activity. Molecular hydrogen, H2, specifically targets the hydroxyl radical - a Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) that is one of the most plentiful and virulent species, and which evidently does not play a part in cell regulation ("Hydrogen acts as a therapeutic antioxidant by selectively reducing cytotoxic oxygen radicals").

Health Benefits. According to a scientific study, drinking hydrogen rich water for 8 weeks resulted in a 39% increase in the antioxidant enzyme superoxide dismutase (SOD) and a 43% decrease in thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARS) in urine (TBARS are a measure of the oxidized and damaged fats in your body). Additionally, an 8% increase in high density lipoprotein (HDL)-cholesterol and a 13% decrease in total cholesterol/HDL-cholesterol was observed from baseline to week 4. If you want to boost your SOD levels by 40%, $75 for a 6-month supply is a bargain compared to the cost of supplements that would accomplish the same thing over the same time period. And improving your HDL/LDL ratio by 13% by merely drinking water every day seems like an easy way to improve that statistic (though I am no fan of the cholesterol scam, and once spent $350 of my own money just to get my doctor off of my back about my cholesterol levels).

Safety. "The portable magnesium stick was a safe, easy and effective method of delivering hydrogen rich water for daily consumption by participants in the study."

I Got to Perform a Personal Experiment Where a Placebo Effect Was Unlikely to Occur. I found a Hayashi article where he describes what he means by "hydrogen rich water" ("Japanese Cardiologist Dr. Hayashi's Two types of Water"). Oddly enough, this article was featured on a "Kangen Water" site, yet in it Hayashi claims that it is hydrogen-rich water that really matters, rather than pH or ORP. In his article, Hayashi says, "A week or two after people begin to use Hydrogen Rich Water, they notice that their feces have literally changed in comparison to when they were using tap water (hydrogen poor water). That is, the "blackish brown, bad-smelling, hard, heavy feces" of the tap water days changed to "light brown, soft, light feces without a strong bad odor" similar to the bowel movements that appear in the diapers of a breastfed baby...We adults tend to think that it is natural for adults feces to have a bad smell, but this is actually a great misconception...Every breastfeeding mother knows from her experience that when her baby has light- colored soft stool with very little bad odor, she can be sure that the baby is healthy, drinking plenty of breast milk, and growing well. On the other hand, when the baby has "blackish, bad-smelling, hard stool," the baby is cranky and feverish, and sometimes vomits up milk. The condition of producing offensive feces is generally called abnormal fermentation of gastrointestinal tract, which indicates the opposite of normal fermentation, but simply put, it is "decay." In other words, if the food we take in by mouth has a rotten smell (bad smell) when it is excreted from the anus, this means abnormal fermentation has taken place." Softer, less smelly stools can be easily verified, and it would be difficult to trick the body into making them.

PERSONAL SUPERSTITIONS THAT I OBSERVE WITH THE HYDROGEN STICK

Don't clean it any more than you have to. If you put it in an acid such as vinegar, the magnesium will be consumed at an accelerated rate, and your stick will not last as long. Obviously, if your stick is dead and doesn't produce bubbles any more, it's time to stick it into some vinegar that's been diluted 4:1 and hope that it comes back to life. Or if it starts looking green and moldy, by all means clean it - use common sense.

I use an old Schweppes Tonic Water bottle, because the closure seems secure. It seems to work fine, and the price was right.

Once or twice a week, I dump out all of the water, rinse off the stick, and vigorously rinse out the bottle. Just in case something has started to putrefy or I have some old germs in the water.

I originally used tap water, but I like the taste of Arrowhead bottled water better. This is all personal taste, and I doubt that it makes any difference on any therapeutic effects that the water might have.

I try not to have too big or too tiny of an air bubble inside of the bottle. If the bubble is too small, there doesn't seem to be as much hydrogen gas in the water (but this could be a hallucination - please reread the title of this section!). If the bubble is too large, I'm afraid that I'm producing a bunch of hydrogen gas that will be instantly blown off as soon as I open the bottle. I generally leave a bubble that includes the neck of the bottle and maybe 1/3" - 1/2" of the top of the shoulder.

I top off the bottle as soon as I take a drink. I try to pour the water into my open mouth rather than sucking on the bottle, to avoid backwashing and potentially contaminating the bottle with food particulates. I attempt to pour the refill water down the side of the bottle rather than splashing it into the center, because I have a superstition that the more the water is agitated, the more hydrogen gas will be dislodged and escape out of the open mouth of the bottle. Pouring water down the side of the bottle will ideally cause no bubbles or cavitation, leading to a minimum loss of hydrogen. I tend to drink a lot of water at a time rather than taking a sip or two and then topping off. I screw the bottle top back on as soon as I can.

BOTTOM LINE AND TENTATIVE CONCLUSIONS

Will I buy another stick? I don't know for sure, but I probably will if only for the odor abatement. Do I get a surge of energy? No. Do I feel healthier? No, but then again, I felt pretty healthy going into this experiment. Do I notice a difference in the water? Yes, it seems to have a bunch of tiny bubbles like really fine champagnes do, which makes it taste silky. Also, I seem to be able to drink a lot more of this water without feeling distended or stuffed - but all of this is subjective. After a few weeks of drinking it, I performed a "side-by-side" taste test using Arrowhead bottled water: I drank a bunch of hydrogen-rich water, topped off, and sipped a bit of water off the top. I emphatically preferred the taste of the hydrogen-rich water to the water that I had used to fill the bottle - but again, this is a completely subjective impression. My girlfriend says that I drink a lot more water than I used to, but this might be because I feel that I am performing an experiment.

Did I notice a change in my bowel movements? Definitely. I am normally as regular as clockwork, but early in the experiment nothing was happening for four or five days. I didn't feel plugged up or uncomfortable, and it didn't feel unhealthy, so I continued to drink the water and eventually things sorted themselves out. The stools definitely are softer, and while they still stink, they don't stink nearly as badly as previously (the diminished odor has been confirmed by an independent observer - my long-suffering girlfriend). If I stop drinking the hydrogen-rich water for a day or two, there's a noticeable difference in stool hardness and an attendant increase in odor.

Would I recommend the Hydrogen Stick to a friend? I don't know. 75 bucks can be a little steep for softer, less stinky stools, and any health benefits are kind of invisible. After all, how am I to tell whether or not I have fewer free radicals or Reactive Oxygen Species inside of my body? I am confident that drinking water that has been treated with the Hydrogen Stick is not doing me any harm. I actually feel fairly confident that it's good for me, but I have no way of proving this. Maybe it boils down to belief and trust.

DISSENTING VOICES

636cathleen has posted several videos on YouTube: "Don't Buy the Hydrogen Stick." She says, "The tap water originally tested at 10.1 pH and +145 ORP and now after a full day of soaking with the Hydrogen stick it is testing at 10.25 pH and -77 ORP. The conclusion is that the Hydrogen stick does work a little to add Hydrogen to the water, but it must be soaked for a long time [such as a full day] to get a nice -77 ORP."

She is performing actual experiments, in sharp contrast to my theorizing and pontificating; there is no way that I'm going to slam this woman. She claims that she has no ax to grind and even though she sells alkaline water ionizer machines, I see nothing to make me doubt her claim. However, her tap water is EXTREMELY alkaline, and the Hydrogen Stick does not deal well with alkalinity.

She's a big proponent of alkaline water ionizer machines but I was after hydrogen in the water, and Hayashi says, "it is true that this cathodic water contains a large amount of hydrogen immediately after it is produced. However, since hydrogen is the lightest element in the universe, this water loses its hydrogen rapidly, and in 2001 it was revealed that it reverts to ordinary water only several minutes after it is produced." By the time most people drink the water from a water ionizer machine, the hydrogen gas that was initially there in profusion has long since departed. By contrast, in the case of a Hydrogen Stick, the sealed bottle holds the H2 gas in its interior and eventually this gas dissolves in the water. Yes, the H2 gas can and will diffuse through the shell of the plastic bottle, but enough gas builds up inside of the bottle to provide consistent levels of dissolved H2 gas in the water.

I draw the following conclusions from 636cathleen's research: if the tap water in your area is high enough to turn litmus paper blue, the Hydrogen Stick is probably not a good choice for you. And although number of sources claim that the Hydrogen Stick is unable to impart a negative ORP or to increase water's alkalinity, if the author of "Don't Buy the Hydrogen Stick" admits that the stick both imparts a negative ORP AND increases the pH, I have to believe her.

"Hyashi's water schtick" [sic] This guy claims to be a retired chemistry professor. Although I have a degree in Biochemistry, I got it a long time ago and I was a terrible student so I really don't want to argue with him. He does have a point about atomic hydrogen (H), which is extremely reactive and would definitely not persist for more than a split second in the body. In patent US 696499193 B1, the inventor proposed to "cage" atomic hydrogen such that it would not react with anything until it got fairly deep into the body, preserving its therapeutic effect until it can do some good. Hayashi himself ascribes the antioxidant effect of his Hydrogen Stick to atomic hydrogen (without much foundation, to my eyes). Hayashi really needs to update his writeup to include the proven benefits of molecular hydrogen, H2.

The professor has a short, semi-complimentary blurb about "Water containing dissolved hydrogen gas," but he cites an old article from 2007 which "does not offer any actual clinical results." Today, there are newer studies which actually do offer clinical results, and with greater than 95% confidence. Hayashi is not the only one who needs to update his writeup. The professor cites a New Scientist article from 2006 that claims to debunk antioxidant supplements - but I doubt that even the authors of this article would argue that increased levels of Superoxide Dismutase are a bad thing.

The professor then goes on to debunk some outfit that sells bottled hydrogen gas that is supposed to put dissolved H2 gas into water. Again, he has a point - bubbling hydrogen gas through water is not going to make the hydrogen gas dissolve in the water. Instead, it is going to bubble right out of the water and escape into the atmosphere, probably causing a fire hazard in the process. However, this does nothing to debunk the Hydrogen Stick, which produces hydrogen gas inside of a closed container filled with water. On the contrary, when the Hydrogen Stick is used as directed, consistent levels of dissolved hydrogen gas in the water have been detected and measured.

I'm not willing to debate this guy on the chemistry of what is happening, but I definitely see tiny bubbles in my water. I believe that the "silkiness" that has been described by some users is due to these tiny bubbles. The most persuasive study ("Effectiveness of Hydrogen Rich Water on Antioxidant Status of Subjects with Potential Metabolic Syndrome--An Open Label Pilot Study") confirms that measurable amounts of hydrogen gas are consistently infused into the water and that this hydrogen is taken into the body when the water is ingested.

NOTES AND REFERENCES (much of this has been rendered redundant by the reorganization of the material)

I went to Nature magazine's site and searched for hydrogen. I spent several minutes going through the numerous entries that popped up, and found the following sampling (note that these articles talk about hydrogen gas, H2, rather than atomic hydrogen H):
Kidney International 77, 85-87 (January (2) 2010) | doi:10.1038/ki.2009.432
Hydrogen: another gas with therapeutic potential
James F George and Anupam Agarwal
Kidney International 77, 101-109 (11 November 2009) doi:10.1038/ki.2009.421
Oral hydrogen water prevents chronic allograft nephropathy in ratsHydrogen water prevented CAN
Jon S Cardinal, Jianghua Zhan, Yinna Wang, Ryujiro Sugimoto, Allan Tsung, Kenneth R McCurry, Timothy R Billiar and Atsunori Nakao
Nature Medicine 13, 673 - 674 (2007) doi:10.1038/nm0607-673
The hydrogen highway to reperfusion therapy
Katherine C Wood & Mark T Gladwin
These articles appeared in scientific magazines, which considerably shored up my confidence that hydrogen gas dissolved or suspended in water was a health benefit.
Additionally, the bibliography of the "Effectiveness of Hydrogen Rich Water on Antioxidant Status of Subjects with Potential Metabolic Syndrome--An Open Label Pilot Study" study includes:
10. Ohsawa I., Ishikawa M., Takahashi K., Watanabe M., Nishimaki K., Yamagata K., Katsura K., Katayama Y., Asoh S., Ohta S. Hydrogen acts as a therapeutic antioxidant by selectively reducing cytotoxic oxygen radicals. Nat. Med. 2007;13:688-694. [PubMed]
11. Buchholz B.M., Kaczorowski D.J., Sugimoto R., Yang R., Wang Y., Billiar T.R., McCurry K.R., Bauer A.J., Nakao A. Hydrogen inhalation ameliorates oxidative stress in transplantation induced intestinal graft injury. Am. J. Transplant. 2008;8:2015-2024. [PubMed]
12. N.A.S.A., author Safety Standard for Hydrogen and Hydrogen Systems. National Aeronautics and Space Administration. 2005
13. Ohsawa I., Nishimaki K., Yamagata K., Ishikawa M., Ohta S. Consumption of hydrogen water prevents atherosclerosis in apolipoprotein E knockout mice. Biochem. Biophys. Res. Commun. 2008;377:1195-1198. [PubMed]
14. Nakashima-Kamimura N., Mori T., Ohsawa I., Asoh S., Ohta S. Molecular hydrogen alleviates nephrotoxicity induced by an anti-cancer drug cisplatin without compromising anti-tumor activity in mice. Cancer. Chemother. Pharmacol. 2009;64:753-761. [PubMed]
15. Sato Y., Kajiyama S., Amano A., Kondo Y., Sasaki T., Handa S., Takahashi R., Fukui M., Hasegawa G., Nakamura N., Fujinawa H., Mori T., Ohta M., Obayashi H., Maruyama N., Ishigami A. Hydrogen-rich pure water prevents superoxide formation in brain slices of vitamin C-depleted SMP30/GNL knockout mice. Biochem. Biophys. Res. Commun. 2008;375:346-350. [PubMed]
16. Cardinal J.S., Zhan J., Wang Y., Sugimoto R., Tsung A., McCurry K.R., Billiar T.R., Nakao A. Oral administration of hydrogen water prevents chronic allograft nephropathy in renal transplantation. Kidney Int. 2009 in press.
17. Kajiyama S., Hasegawa G., Asano M., Hosoda H., Fukui M., Nakamura N., Kitawaki J., Imai S., Nakano K., Ohta M., Adachi T., Obayashi H., Yoshikawa T. Supplementation of hydrogen-rich water improves lipid and glucose metabolism in patients with type 2 diabetes or impaired glucose tolerance. Nutr. Res. 2008;28:137-143. [PubMed]

US Patent US 696499193 B1, "Prophylactic Therapeutic and Industrial Antioxidant Compositions Enhanced with Stabilized Atomic Hydrogen/Free Electrons and Methods to Prepare and Use Such Compositions."
In the Description of the Related Art section of this patent, Miroslav Colic gives a concise overview of Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) and free radicals. He points out that both Reactive Oxygen Species and free radicals can be involved in the regulation of cellular processes. I was concerned that consuming large amounts of hydrogen rich water might distort this regulatory activity, so I Googled the Web and found the abstract of an article that says that, "H2 selectively reduced the hydroxyl radical, the most cytotoxic of reactive oxygen species (ROS), and effectively protected cells; however, H2 did not react with other ROS, which possess physiological roles":
Nature Medicine 13, 688 - 694 (2007)
Published online: 7 May 2007 | doi:10.1038/nm1577
Hydrogen acts as a therapeutic antioxidant by selectively reducing cytotoxic oxygen radicals
[...]

Hayashi believes that molecular hydrogen is broken into atomic hydrogen by hydrogenases in our body (hydrogenases are enzymes that can reversibly split molecular hydrogen to produce atomic hydrogen). This is speculative but even if it turns out to be false, hydrogen gas itself is effective in counteracting one of the most plentiful and deleterious members of the Reactive Oxygen Species. I would assume that any hydrogen gas that does not encounter a hydroxyl radical or a hydrogenase will rapidly diffuse across membranes and make its way out of the body.

The clincher for me was the following article:

J Clin Biochem Nutr. 2010 March; 46(2): 140-149.
Published online 2010 February 24. doi: 10.3164/jcbn.09-100. PMCID: PMC2831093
Copyright © 2010 JCBN
Effectiveness of Hydrogen Rich Water on Antioxidant Status of Subjects with Potential Metabolic Syndrome--An Open Label Pilot Study
Atsunori Nakao,1* Yoshiya Toyoda,1 Prachi Sharma,2 Malkanthi Evans,2 and Najla Guthrie2
[...]

This article confirmed that the hydrogen stick method indeed produces measurable amounts of hydrogen: "A magnesium stick and the methods to generate hydrogen water in 500 ml bottles of drinking water. A plastic shelled product consisting of metallic magnesium (99.9% pure) and natural stones in the polypropylene containers combined with ceramics (Doctor SUISOSUI®, Friendear, Tokyo, Japan) was used to produce hydrogen. The product was capable of generating hydrogen when placed in drinking water by the following chemical reaction; Mg + 2H2O ' Mg (OH)2 + H2. Hydrogen concentrations in the water bottle (n = 3). The hydrogen concentration in a water bottle was maintained between 0.55 and 0.65 mM over an 8 week period."

The study used 2 sticks per 500ml - four times as much as the 1 stick per 1L that I used, and the subjects drank a lot of water.

Aside from Hayashi's better-smelling feces (which weren't mentioned in the study), there were other health benefits:

TBARS are a marker of lipid peroxidation which is indicative of malondialdehyde formation and lipid damage and is a well-established method for screening and monitoring lipid peroxidation [18]. The concentration of urinary TBARS decreased significantly (p<0.05) from baseline to week 4 and week 8. Subjects demonstrated a significant increase (p<0.05) in SOD [Superoxide dismutase] from baseline to week 8. Subjects demonstrated increasing trends in 8-isoprostane from baseline to week 4 and week 8. When a post hoc sub analysis by gender was conducted, male subjects demonstrated a significant decrease in urinary TBARS from baseline to week 8 and a significant increase (p<0.05) in SOD from baseline to week 8. During oxidative damage to DNA, damaged products are usually eliminated by repair enzymes and detected as nucleoside derivatives. Urinary 8-OHdG is one adduct of this reaction and has been proposed as a sensitive biomarker of oxidative DNA damage and repair [19]. In subjects who were current smokers, there was a trend toward a decrease in urinary 8-OHdG and TBARS levels from baseline to week 4 and week 8. Subjects demonstrated increasing trends in SOD from baseline to week 8 and 8-isoprostane from baseline to week 4 and week 8. Urinary 8-OHdG, 8-isoprostane, TBARS and SOD were higher in subjects who were current smokers (data not shown).

Subjects demonstrated a significant increase in HDL-cholesterol from baseline to week 4 and week 8 and a decrease in total cholesterol/HDL ratio from baseline to week 4 (Table 3).

Male subjects demonstrated a significant increase in HDL-cholesterol from baseline to week 4 and week 8 and significant decrease in total cholesterol/HDL ratio from baseline to week 4 (p<0.05) (Table 3).

Female subjects had a significant increase (p<0.05) in HDL-cholesterol from baseline to week 4, and a significant decrease (p<0.05) in LDL-cholesterol and total cholesterol/HDL-cholesterol ratio from baseline to week 4. There were no changes in HDL cholesterol, cholesterol/HDL ratio and triglycerides from baseline to week 8.

[This last sentence doesn't make sense to me, unless the benefits unraveled from week 4 to week 8 for the women. But in any case, drinking hydrogen water didn't appear to make things worse.]
 
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But then why do you mention "H2"? (Molecular hydrogen).
 

BigPapaChakra

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visionofstrength said:
BigPapaChakra said:
The portable magnesium stick was a safe, easy and effective method of delivering hydrogen rich water for daily consumption by participants in the study.[/b]
Have you tried a magnesium stick? Which one? I see a popular one for $67, that needs to be replaced every year or two (see review below). Do you know if Tyler has measured the hydrogen concentration from magnesium sticks, or compared them to carbonated water mixed with magnesium oxide?

Tyler mentions that there is a method for super-saturating water with molecular hydrogen, so that (he suggests) you don't need to drink so much water. Do you know what that method is?

I'm also wondering how well the H+ makes it into the body if you drink it in plain water, as compared to whether it's better transported in the magnesium oxide/carbonated water mix.

I also see this Amazon review about the magnesium stick

I could be wrong, as I have yet to discuss anything with Tyler himself, but I'd bet that the method of super-saturating water with H2 is by using various hydrogen generator machines, such as Lourdes Hydrogen Water Machine. This is a good introductory video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzawY76yn30

Thanks for the amazon review. It was quite informative. The one thing that sticks out, though, is that the reviewer purchased/used that particular "hydrogen stick", which as far as I can tell from Tyler's work, in addition to the person who made me aware of it, won't work. This patent/study describes H2-containing water and how it was made: http://openi.nlm.nih.gov/detailedresult ... 0f01&req=4 Some members on longecity of hypothesized that this is a way it can be made cheaply, as opposed to that other hydrogen stick: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000Y30ES ... 15&simLd=1

I was also told to watch/listen to these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkMMRj8Ga1g Ionized water and reverse osmosis with Tyler LeBaron of Molecular Hydrogen institute

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruIppjyv8OU Coach Keegan & Molecular Hydrogen Institute's Tyler LeBaron
 
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BigPapaChakra said:
Thanks for the amazon review. It was quite informative. The one thing that sticks out, though, is that the reviewer purchased/used that particular "hydrogen stick", which as far as I can tell from Tyler's work, in addition to the person who made me aware of it, won't work. This patent/study describes H2-containing water and how it was made: http://openi.nlm.nih.gov/detailedresult ... 0f01&req=4 Some members on longecity of hypothesized that this is a way it can be made cheaply, as opposed to that other hydrogen stick: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000Y30ES ... 15&simLd=1
When I look at that study on openi.nlm.nih.gov it refers to the magnesium stick from "Doctor SUISOSUI®, Friendear, Tokyo, Japan". But the Amazon review claims that's the same stick that's being reviewed, it seems?
Amazon Review said:
This article confirmed that the hydrogen stick method indeed produces measurable amounts of hydrogen: "A magnesium stick and the methods to generate hydrogen water in 500 ml bottles of drinking water. A plastic shelled product consisting of metallic magnesium (99.9% pure) and natural stones in the polypropylene containers combined with ceramics (Doctor SUISOSUI®, Friendear, Tokyo, Japan) was used to produce hydrogen. The product was capable of generating hydrogen when placed in drinking water by the following chemical reaction; Mg + 2H2O ' Mg (OH)2 + H2. Hydrogen concentrations in the water bottle (n = 3). The hydrogen concentration in a water bottle was maintained between 0.55 and 0.65 mM over an 8 week period."

The study used 2 sticks per 500ml - four times as much as the 1 stick per 1L that I used, and the subjects drank a lot of water.
 

BigPapaChakra

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My bad, I didn't see this till now!

Hmm.. I seem to have misread/not recognized that. That's really interesting - I'm reallllyyy considering trying out that particular stick. The few people I know of that have used the (much) more expensive means of consuming hydrogen have gotten some incredible results within a couple weeks, and I'd like to know that what I'm using will not only work, but also be safe (as some of the magnesium sticks *may* have some amount of heavy metals), which is why I've been holding off and just waiting to save up money for the Lourde's machine. I've also found a bunch of other studies indicating its usefulness, particularly for neuro-psychiatric issues (or nootropic potential?):

Hydrogen is Neuroprotective and Preserves Cerebrovascular Reactivity in Asphyxiated Newborn Pigs (http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v68/n5 ... 0194a.html)

Hydrogen therapy reduces apoptosis in neonatal hypoxia–ischemia rat model (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4008007325)

Neuroprotective effects of hydrogen saline in neonatal hypoxia–ischemia rat model (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9308028047)
 
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BigPapaChakra said:
Hmm.. I seem to have misread/not recognized that. That's really interesting - I'm reallllyyy considering trying out that particular stick. The few people I know of that have used the (much) more expensive means of consuming hydrogen have gotten some incredible results within a couple weeks, and I'd like to know that what I'm using will not only work, but also be safe (as some of the magnesium sticks *may* have some amount of heavy metals), which is why I've been holding off and just waiting to save up money for the Lourde's machine.
I think the stick would work, but the experiment used two sticks for 500 ml of water. I guess the way you know it's working is you see bubbles, and you feel the effects? Good luck with it, and let me know how it goes?
 

johns74

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What is reductive stress? Taking antioxidants too much can harm yourself, or something like that?
 
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johns74 said:
What is reductive stress? Taking antioxidants too much can harm yourself, or something like that?
Hey, I am trying to figure that out, too! Things that shift the the cell's redox balance away from the relatively oxidized state of the NADH/NAD+, lactate/pyruvate, and GSH/GSSH systems.

Here's a Peat quote about it:
Ray Peat said:
Fructose has been known for many years to accelerate the oxidation of ethanol (by about 80%). Oxygen consumption in the presence of ethanol is increased by fructose more than by glucose (Thieden and Lundquist, 1967). Besides removing the alcohol from the body more quickly, it prevents the oxidative damage, by maintaining or restoring the cell's redox balance, the relatively oxidized state of the NADH/NAD+, lactate/pyruvate, and GSH/GSSH systems. Although glucose has this stabilizing, pro-oxidative function in many situations, this is a general feature of fructose, sometimes allowing it to have the opposite effect of glucose on the cell's redox state. It seems to be largely this generalized shift of the cell's redox state towards oxidation that is behind the ability of a small amount of fructose to catalyze the more rapid oxidation of a large amount of glucose.

Besides protecting against the reductive stresses, fructose can also protect against the oxidative stress of increased hydrogen peroxide (Spasojevic, et al., 2009). Its metabolite, fructose 1,6-bisphosphate, is even more effective as an antioxidant.
 

Philomath

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Is RNS60 or hydrogen rich water the same as Dr. Pollack's "EZ" water?
 

Pet Peeve

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What about this Mega Hydrate product?

http://www.megahydrate.eu/

It's supposed to be hydrides bound to silicon molecules which would mean (H– + H2O –> H2 + OH–) according to the molecularhydrogenfoundation.org website. In practice this would have the same effect as the hydrogen stick, only in a pill.

It seems like marketing-bs but I decided to try it as it got some really good reviews on amazon and on iherb (as Hydrogen Boost). I had the same effects as claimed for the hydrogen stick, especially mental clarity, but have only tried it once so far.

What do you guys think?
 

paper_clips43

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Well it's been at least 4 years since I was taking it so I can't remember the exact mechanism which creates the helium or if it has something to do with the hydrogen but it basically sounds like you are burping on helium. High pitched burps. Either way I am friends with the creator and I have seen him take 1000 times the recommended dose a few times a day with no ill effects which is good to know.

I am interested to start it again so keep us updated if you have more improvements.

Something interesting thou, and I can't give you any facts so you just going to have to take my word for it. But people high up are taking that product. Someone in the vatican.
 
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