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johns74 said:haidut said:Lactoferrin actually chelates iron already in the body and this is thought to be behind some of the anti-inflammatory effects of raw milk consumption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21160095
My question was whether it removes iron out of the body, and the source of that claim.
haidut said:johns74 said:haidut said:Lactoferrin actually chelates iron already in the body and this is thought to be behind some of the anti-inflammatory effects of raw milk consumption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21160095
My question was whether it removes iron out of the body, and the source of that claim.
I don't think it removes it from the body. It has higher affinity for iron than transferrin and oral supplementation with lactoferrin has been shown to lower plasma iron and ferritin and increase transferrin. This results in functional iron deficiency even total body iron stores do not change. Lactoferrin simply shuttles the sequestered iron to the liver or spleen (which may not be desirable at all like you mentioned a few times). So, maybe I should have said that milk can results in tissue iron depletion but accumulation in spleen and liver. For short term problems like infection this may be good but long accumualation of iron in liver and spleen is probably not desirable.
Such_Saturation said:haidut said:johns74 said:haidut said:Lactoferrin actually chelates iron already in the body and this is thought to be behind some of the anti-inflammatory effects of raw milk consumption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21160095
My question was whether it removes iron out of the body, and the source of that claim.
I don't think it removes it from the body. It has higher affinity for iron than transferrin and oral supplementation with lactoferrin has been shown to lower plasma iron and ferritin and increase transferrin. This results in functional iron deficiency even total body iron stores do not change. Lactoferrin simply shuttles the sequestered iron to the liver or spleen (which may not be desirable at all like you mentioned a few times). So, maybe I should have said that milk can results in tissue iron depletion but accumulation in spleen and liver. For short term problems like infection this may be good but long accumualation of iron in liver and spleen is probably not desirable.
This is interesting. How could we measure iron in the spleen and liver?
haidut said:Such_Saturation said:haidut said:johns74 said:haidut said:Lactoferrin actually chelates iron already in the body and this is thought to be behind some of the anti-inflammatory effects of raw milk consumption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21160095
My question was whether it removes iron out of the body, and the source of that claim.
I don't think it removes it from the body. It has higher affinity for iron than transferrin and oral supplementation with lactoferrin has been shown to lower plasma iron and ferritin and increase transferrin. This results in functional iron deficiency even total body iron stores do not change. Lactoferrin simply shuttles the sequestered iron to the liver or spleen (which may not be desirable at all like you mentioned a few times). So, maybe I should have said that milk can results in tissue iron depletion but accumulation in spleen and liver. For short term problems like infection this may be good but long accumualation of iron in liver and spleen is probably not desirable.
This is interesting. How could we measure iron in the spleen and liver?
Officially, only through biopsy. Much fun, very nice experience
Unofficially, you can do MRI of the liver with specific settings to detect iron:
http://www.radio.univ-rennes1.fr/Source ... alc15.html
Even better, there is a non-invasive way through a blood test.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24662623
"...Hyperferritinemia was predictive of iron overload only in patients with a high level of serum ferritin (>2000 μg/L). In patients with moderate hyperferritinemia, liver transaminases inversely correlated with hepatic iron concentration. A combination of both parameters expressed as ferritin/aspartate transaminase ratio was highly predictive of tissue iron overload (sensitivity 83.3%, specificity 78.6%). Receiver operating characteristic analysis resulted in an area under the curve of 0.83."
This last study shines some light on the whole liver enzymes issue. I think both Hoffer and Barnes said that elevated liver enzymes are actually a good thing as long as the elevation is within 2x the upper limit of the range. They thought this showed the liver was working well. Another study also showed that people with liver enzymes that were in the bottom 25% actually had increased mortality. So, it seems you want your ferritin to be on the low side or liver enzymes to be slightly elevated, or both.
Such_Saturation said:haidut said:Such_Saturation said:haidut said:johns74 said:haidut said:Lactoferrin actually chelates iron already in the body and this is thought to be behind some of the anti-inflammatory effects of raw milk consumption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21160095
My question was whether it removes iron out of the body, and the source of that claim.
I don't think it removes it from the body. It has higher affinity for iron than transferrin and oral supplementation with lactoferrin has been shown to lower plasma iron and ferritin and increase transferrin. This results in functional iron deficiency even total body iron stores do not change. Lactoferrin simply shuttles the sequestered iron to the liver or spleen (which may not be desirable at all like you mentioned a few times). So, maybe I should have said that milk can results in tissue iron depletion but accumulation in spleen and liver. For short term problems like infection this may be good but long accumualation of iron in liver and spleen is probably not desirable.
This is interesting. How could we measure iron in the spleen and liver?
Officially, only through biopsy. Much fun, very nice experience
Unofficially, you can do MRI of the liver with specific settings to detect iron:
http://www.radio.univ-rennes1.fr/Source ... alc15.html
Even better, there is a non-invasive way through a blood test.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24662623
"...Hyperferritinemia was predictive of iron overload only in patients with a high level of serum ferritin (>2000 μg/L). In patients with moderate hyperferritinemia, liver transaminases inversely correlated with hepatic iron concentration. A combination of both parameters expressed as ferritin/aspartate transaminase ratio was highly predictive of tissue iron overload (sensitivity 83.3%, specificity 78.6%). Receiver operating characteristic analysis resulted in an area under the curve of 0.83."
This last study shines some light on the whole liver enzymes issue. I think both Hoffer and Barnes said that elevated liver enzymes are actually a good thing as long as the elevation is within 2x the upper limit of the range. They thought this showed the liver was working well. Another study also showed that people with liver enzymes that were in the bottom 25% actually had increased mortality. So, it seems you want your ferritin to be on the low side or liver enzymes to be slightly elevated, or both.
I can't get the full text it seems. It would be good to know the ratios.
Such_Saturation said:schultz said:Such_Saturation said:Don't you think the coffee would grab onto the manganese?
Do you mean inside the body or the grinds would bind the manganese and not let it go into the brewed liquid?
The manganese figures I got for coffee are based on brewed coffee. Are you proposing that the manganese wouldn't be absorbed from this?
I think things like lead and cadmium are retained in the actual grinds.
That it would be difficult to absorb.
Such_Saturation said:Nice find. All I could get was some studies with phytic acid. I wonder if it is a chance that the chronometer listing is so close to the actual bioavailability. Although I think 100g would make almost a quart of coffee. Can you find anything about the niacin in coffee?
narouz said:Such_Saturation said:Nice find. All I could get was some studies with phytic acid. I wonder if it is a chance that the chronometer listing is so close to the actual bioavailability. Although I think 100g would make almost a quart of coffee. Can you find anything about the niacin in coffee?
I am sorry for rudely interrupting, Such, but
where would you place phytic acid in
The Spectrum of Peatness,
bad to good...?
Recommendations for Australia/New Zealand and the FAO/WHO recommendations discuss bioavailabilty from different food sources. My guess ... If the bioavailability of the vitamin or mineral is known they make some assumptions on how the average diet looks like and do some math based on that.schultz said:Also, when they come up with the RDA numbers, do they consider bio-availability and all that nonsense? Like, if the RDA for manganese is 2mg, is that 100% absorbed, or do they assume some is lost?
AI (Adequate Intake) (used when an RDI cannot be determined)
The average daily nutrient intake level based on observed or experimentally-determined approximations or estimates of nutrient intake by a group (or groups) of apparently healthy people that are assumed to be adequate.
Such_Saturation said:Nice find. All I could get was some studies with phytic acid. I wonder if it is a chance that the chronometer listing is so close to the actual bioavailability. Although I think 100g would make almost a quart of coffee. Can you find anything about the niacin in coffee?
The milk can be turned into farmer's cheese. The orange juice could be used as curdling agent.
If iron is being sequestered to the liver and/or spleen, would succinic acid help to get it out of there?I don't think it removes it from the body. It has higher affinity for iron than transferrin and oral supplementation with lactoferrin has been shown to lower plasma iron and ferritin and increase transferrin. This results in functional iron deficiency even though total body iron stores do not change. Lactoferrin simply shuttles the sequestered iron to the liver or spleen (which may not be desirable at all like you mentioned a few times). So, maybe I should have said that milk can results in tissue iron depletion but accumulation in spleen and liver. For short term problems like infection this may be good but long accumulation of iron in liver and spleen is probably not desirable.
If iron is being sequestered to the liver and/or spleen, would succinic acid help to get it out of there?
Ah, thank you so much Haidut.Aspirin, succinic acid, vitamin E, etc have been shown to chelate iron out of tissues including liver.
I don't think it removes it from the body. It has higher affinity for iron than transferrin and oral supplementation with lactoferrin has been shown to lower plasma iron and ferritin and increase transferrin. This results in functional iron deficiency even though total body iron stores do not change. Lactoferrin simply shuttles the sequestered iron to the liver or spleen (which may not be desirable at all like you mentioned a few times). So, maybe I should have said that milk can results in tissue iron depletion but accumulation in spleen and liver. For short term problems like infection this may be good but long accumulation of iron in liver and spleen is probably not desirable.