Bicarbonate Vs. PaCO2 Blood Tests

[haidut]

Haidut


As I mentioned before. I go by my own studies aka blood tests in this case. I collected quite a population for 2 years when I helped people. I am telling you what I saw on the tests. Cortisol is not a problem at all. COrtisol is raised for survival to get you protein when pancreas go down. Serotonin is raised to support brain function. These two have nothing to do with the actual problem

I have no idea what you want from me. I am telling you info that I know for a fact from blood tests. I dont read studies and dont plan to.

One thing I can tell you . Almost none of sick people have high estrogen and 80% of CFS people have low cortisol that is why they take hormones)))

What is there to argue, just test 10 people out here for PTH you will see yourself))) PTH is very rare to be up. VERY VERY RARE. I saw it up may be in 1 case out of 50 in my population.


Also numbers from my case. MY TSH is 0.7 my estrogen is low, my pth is bottom of the range. PUlse 85. Normal temperatures. According to Peat I am super human))))) WRONG I had major major problems when I had these tests.


You are wrong, if you are not getting protein inside you need to stop catabolic state? You need to get protein but in a different way.

I never said cortisol or serotonin being elevated is good. NOthing low or high is good. I say BALANCE.

I say that cortisol and serotonin dont have anything to do with aging at all. These are raised in certain situations to save you. But they are raised for purpose not as a mistake.
the real problem is your pancreas or gastrin, which stops you from digesting protein properly. Then you have high cortisol at first and then when you get depleted of muscles you will get low cortisol like all people with CFS. and feeding more protein does nothing in this case. NOTHING

Really sick people have low cortisol not high. YOu know why? Since they dont have any protein left in their body , cortisol is lowered. But if your pancreas are not working correctly and you lower your high cortisol, you will get liver toxicity since you wont make any systemic proteins like ferritin or ceruloplasmin

That is when you are sick you need to get aminos that dont require digestion.


As far as projections to the world . I am into algorithmic trading, I dont project , I get data and I look at it myself. I dont talk from my case at all. I saw many many many blood work cases to even open my mouth. How many actual tests have you done? And how many people did you observe.

For me Ray Peat projects one case to the world which is major wrong. And even from this forum you can see that his diet helps at best 50% of people.


I dont tell all people to do the same thing. I tell people to get tested and see for themselves that in at least 50% cases PEAT is wrong. I would say in 80% from my little population. ( 100 people with ABGs) and blood work. And about 1000 people with blood work and hairtests.

So I project nothing, I project truth. And truth is you go and get tested and you will see that I am right.

I will not go and look for some studies i just go to the lab instead. See the difference. That is major problem in the US. In the US you have problems to get tested for simplest stuff and that is why people prefer to try stuff out without even knowing where they are and blindly trusting Peat like gurus.

We argue about simple things, I have no idea why though. They should be obvious to any researcher. It is not about studies, it is about understanding of how everything works. YOu can find studies to fit any theory. Hey when I started I was like that, I could find any studies to fit any of my theories. And the ones that dont fit it I would try to explain somehow. LIke niacinamide does not raise serotonin, oh but it raises uptake and so forth)))) it goes on and on . YOu go and test yourself at least first . Then you test at least 10 people you know . And even from this little population you will see that all these gurus know nothing. And that it is way more complex. One guy drinks alcohol and another smokes cigarettes, third lifts , and another one jerks off non stop. ALL of them have the same chemistry? LMAO of course not and diets will be different, since they are screwing their balance in different ways.


I cant direct you in the location for you to find and confirm what I am saying in studies I dont read studies any more at all, I used to ,and beileve me I know most of the studies you reference, I even had huge collection of them for every body system.But to confirm what I am saying Sorry, it simply does not exist. I am giving you this information for no cost from my heart and I swear that what |I am saying is the truth. Maybe my population is not big, but it is something real, at least for me. these are the results that I got and no one can take this away from me. I am not selling anything to anyone, and I am not giving advice or helping anyone. I am not in this field at all now. It has nothing to do with my experience I only pass on what I got on these tests. You make your own conclusions. I made my own .

Good luck , buddy

OK, thanks for explaining. As for me, I also speak from experience even though not very extensinve. I currently volunteer for an organization that does clinical studies on experimental drugs and have access to medical data collected from patients. So, from that data I see that in most people over 30 there is vitamin D deficiency and consequently their PTH is either high normal or elevated. Given PTH relationship to insulin sensitivity, this shows one reason why many people over 30 have problem with sugar and weight gain. Elevated PTH makes you insulin reistant, and bringing it down alleviates the rpoblem fo rmany people.
So, that's my data. I am just saying that in "my" population that tends to be tens of thousands of people from all over the world these are the things I see - i.e. low vitamin D, high/normal PTH and sometimes elevated calcium.
For pancreas - I fully agree with you that protein deficiency is a problem and the pancreas may be a direct cause of that. So, 2 questions here. What do you think the problem with the pancreas may be, and how it can be fixed? Second question is why is the pancreatic problem the issue and not itself a result of a more generic systemic failure related to energy production?
I don't think we are arguing, I think we simply favor two different explanations to the same problem. Only thing I ask is for your explanation why most problems we see people face could not be a result of energetic failure rather than some specific organ dysfunction. If it was simple pancreas failure, people get digestive enzymes and protein digestion recovers. However, for sick people this does not seem to be the case. Digestive enzymes do not help and they continue to break down aminos like tryptophan in the IDO pathway and get toxic metabolites. So, why is that the case? I don't think it is pancreas problem only.
Thanks and good luck to you too.

 

[gbolduev]

Jannel

If you have low cortisol. You already contradict what Peat says. Cyproheptadine causes cortisol rebound which you feel very good on. Meaning that cortisol base actually goes up in your case not down.


Peat has good ideas but in my mind explains them not correctly. The problem with inflammation is that many people that are protein deficient because of pacnreas have high BASE cortisol. SO when you get stress reaction your aldosterone goes up inflames everything and then cortisol should go up to take care of inflammation. If base cortisol is high , the spike in cortisol is smaller than that of aldosterone.Chronic inflammation sets it.

Cyproheptadine stops cortisol secretion and then there is a rebound which makes you feel good since it takes cares of inflammation.


Also dont forget Cyproheptadine lowers acetylcholine. Many people with copper deficiency are high in acetylcholine. HIGH acetylcholine will give you allergies and abnormal stress reactions.

To regulate sugar you need pancreas)))) to regulate cortisol you need pancreas , not the adrenals as many think. Pancreas run on mostly SODs, meaning copper zinc and manganese. Any deficiency in any of these you are screwed with cortisol and sugar.

Gastrin can be impaired lets say by tin deficiency.


Also very questionable moment in Peats statements. He said you need to increase thyroid to retain copper. LMAO

Is that why 95% people have high copper and iron content in their livers when they die?

It is not about retaining copper , it is about using it. And it has nothing to do with thyroid, it has to do with PH and adrenals. If your adrenals are down, copper wont be used , you will store it in the liver.

And eating purines like liver same as vegan food will make you feel good at first since your bioavailable copper is low. But then in 2 years you will crash so hard it is not even funny. I dealt with vegans and all of them had copper overload after 2-3 years. And their livers crashed.



I hope this helps

 

[gbolduev]

Haidut


If you take pancreatic enzymes you will recover over time which Kelley proved on thousands of people with cancer. But dont forget protein digestion depends on bicarbonate ,enzymes, bile, gastin HCL. When I helped people I made sure I support the whole chain of these.

About vitamin D, they are not deficient in vitamin D. Vitamin D is lowered, why is it lowered? Since body does not want calcium at the moment. I had vitamin D at 23 and PTH at the very low of the range. SO do many many people.

And if I took vitamin D I would crash hard. YOu know why? since most sick people have vitamin B2 deficiency and vitamin D lowers it . there is a huge difference between deficiency and regulatory levels.

I have no idea why they look in blood in studies without understanding that this is how it is supposed to be.

Of course You can be vit D deficient no problem. But hey here is an example for you , I live in CYPRUS , my D levels are 20s. LMAO AM I deficient ? yeah when I take D I will crash. I am constantly outside. MY body downregulated D .


and there is absolutely no connection with vitamin D and PTH as I already said I personally have low D and low PTH. For instance if you run low on magnesium your PTH will be low and your vitamin D will be low at the same time. and how many people run low on magnesium? ))) LOTS

Everyone is different and to say PTH should be up when vitamin D is down, in my book is crazy. They are regulated by 100s of other systems. And the simplest imbalance is usually not the cause of real problem. The real problem starts when your calcium is down and your PTH is down and your vitamin D is down and your magnesium is up)))))

And many people on my tests had the same. If you in resp acidosis, you will have low D and low PTH. And resp acidosis is the most common imbalance since people dont move enough. They sit at the computers all day long


Of course I agree people with metabolic acidosis will have higher PTH numbers.
SO my saying is go get tested as there are at least many cases of PH balance and metabolism and Peats one type recs I consider dangerous. And it is silly to say ALL people is this and ALL people are that. THat is my point which I try to express here.

High and low serotonin people , high and low PTH people , high and low estrogen people.HIgh and low thyroid people. WE are all different. That is my point. And people should preach this not to create a forum with zombies.

 

[haidut]

Haidut


If you take pancreatic enzymes you will recover over time which Kelley proved on thousands of people with cancer. But dont forget protein digestion depends on bicarbonate ,enzymes, bile, gastin HCL. When I helped people I made sure I support the whole chain of these.

About vitamin D, they are not deficient in vitamin D. Vitamin D is lowered, why is it lowered? Since body does not want calcium at the moment. I had vitamin D at 23 and PTH at the very low of the range. SO do many many people.

And if I took vitamin D I would crash hard. YOu know why? since most sick people have vitamin B2 deficiency and vitamin D lowers it . there is a huge difference between deficiency and regulatory levels.

I have no idea why they look in blood in studies without understanding that this is how it is supposed to be.

Of course You can be vit D deficient no problem. But hey here is an example for you , I live in CYPRUS , my D levels are 20s. LMAO AM I deficient ? yeah when I take D I will crash. I am constantly outside. MY body downregulated D .


and there is absolutely no connection with vitamin D and PTH as I already said I personally have low D and low PTH. For instance if you run low on magnesium your PTH will be low and your vitamin D will be low at the same time. and how many people run low on magnesium? ))) LOTS

Everyone is different and to say PTH should be up when vitamin D is down, in my book is crazy. They are regulated by 100s of other systems. And the simplest imbalance is usually not the cause of real problem. The real problem starts when your calcium is down and your PTH is down and your vitamin D is down and your magnesium is up)))))

And many people on my tests had the same. If you in resp acidosis, you will have low D and low PTH. And resp acidosis is the most common imbalance since people dont move enough. They sit at the computers all day long


Of course I agree people with metabolic acidosis will have higher PTH numbers.
SO my saying is go get tested as there are at least many cases of PH balance and metabolism and Peats one type recs I consider dangerous. And it is silly to say ALL people is this and ALL people are that. THat is my point which I try to express here.

High and low serotonin people , high and low PTH people , high and low estrogen people.HIgh and low thyroid people. WE are all different. That is my point. And people should preach this not to create a forum with zombies.

OK, thanks for the clarification.
No need to get tested for myself, I recovered (hopefully) about 2 years ago. In my case pregnenolone and DHEA were very helpful, but progesterone was hit/miss.
I think Peat's recommendation for thyroid and copper retention is due to the fact that most people have low ceruloplasmin and taking thyroid tends to raise it. Aspirin also raises ceruloplasmin so that may be another reason people feel good on it.
Here is another question for you. If protein digestion/utilization is a major problem in aging and disease (which I agree with) then why not just use essential amino acids as protein replacement and not touch any protein food? Is there any value in eating protein food if you can get the aminos from supplements and without causing stress to the pancreas?
Also, you and I talked about egg whites about a year ago. Do you still think egg whites are good protein source that can maintain positive nitrogen balance? If yes, then why are egg whites anabolic while most other protein catabolic? What is in egg whites that allows pancreas to digest the protein without causing too much strain?

 

[robertf]

"It is not about retaining copper , it is about using it. And it has nothing to do with thyroid, it has to do with PH and adrenals. If your adrenals are down, copper wont be used , you will store it in the liver."

And now segue into the real endocrine and life destroyers - heavy metals which set up the super oxidizing loop and prevent copper use among many other baaaad things. Unlike the baby disruptors like pufa where you skip oil, eat some butter and hit the gym an voila you're back in the game. I always thought that the high salt recommendation was specifically to address low aldosterone/sodium wasting, but Peat says that the thyroid is always the weak link and not the adrenals?

I'm seeing in general good recommendations but not great ones, stuff like caffeine and sugar and little tricks to circumvent the endocrine problems but they are only going so far with people who are damaged. If you want to actually fix the problems that's a different story. Why spend all this time and effort working out doses of your backup hormone analogs as opposed to getting the primary ones working.

 

[haidut]

"It is not about retaining copper , it is about using it. And it has nothing to do with thyroid, it has to do with PH and adrenals. If your adrenals are down, copper wont be used , you will store it in the liver."

And now segue into the real endocrine and life destroyers - heavy metals which set up the super oxidizing loop and prevent copper use among many other baaaad things. Unlike the baby disruptors like pufa where you skip oil, eat some butter and hit the gym an voila you're back in the game. I always thought that the high salt recommendation was specifically to address low aldosterone/sodium wasting, but Peat says that the thyroid is always the weak link and not the adrenals?

I'm seeing in general good recommendations but not great ones, stuff like caffeine and sugar and little tricks to circumvent the endocrine problems but they are only going so far with people who are damaged. If you want to actually fix the problems that's a different story. Why spend all this time and effort working out doses of your backup hormone analogs as opposed to getting the primary ones working.

My point exactly. I agree with gbolduev's points on protein defiency and pancreas issues but they seem to be a result of hypometabolism and one of the many symptoms of low energy production. So, why bother chasing individual "symptoms" when, if Ray is right, the issue is singular and related to thyroid. In some cases thyroid will not fix metabolism if there are chronic issues like infection or organ damage. But these seem to be a minority of cases and in cases like infection can easily be addressed.

 

[gbolduev]

Haidut

Low energy will be in hypo or hypermetabolism since in both you will have sugar problems . In one insulin resistance and in second hypoglycemia.

Can you provide studies where aspirin increases ceruloplasmin or thyroid increases ceruloplasmin please

Also I read in this article that without thyroid you dont retain copper.that is why he gives high copper diet, oranges, liver

It said nothing about ceruloplasmin. Actually ceruloplasm is controled by adrenal glands, and rises with estrogen . You have low estrogen low ceruloplasmin which again contradicts Peat.


Also it is funny how you say thyroid is the issue)))) Thyroid can have 10-15 types of imbalances.

Try to give thyroid to some one with weak adrenals)))) YOUR ferritin will skyrocket. WHY? your body will try to take all iron out of blood to stop thyroid


Pregnenolone and DHEA are ok for a man . It is beleived they chelate copper by actually binding it with ceruloplasmin. And actually when you have low adrenals because of high cortisol they can help .

But the thing is , why do you have high cortisol . Is it cushings or is it pancreas. That is the thing. it is definetely not stress or because you dont eat protein. EVERYONE eat too much protein usually


Does cortisol substitute for low thyroid? but then your TSH would be up not down, but in chronic fatique it can be low and high . LOw is when you are protein deficient , high is when you have thyroid problem which can be solved with zinc or selenium may be.

 

[mas]

Enzyme Therapy and Cancer
By Nicholas Gonzalez, M.D.

The embryologist Dr. John Beard proposed in 1906 that pancreatic proteolytic digestive enzymes represent the body's main defense against cancer, and that enzyme therapy would be useful as a treatment for all types of cancer. (1) Particularly during the first two decades of the twentieth century, Dr. Beard's thesis attracted some attention in academic circles, and several case reports in the medical literature documented tumor regression and even remission in terminal cancer patients treated with proteolytic enzymes. (2-6) In 1911, Dr. Beard published a monograph entitled The Enzyme Therapy of Cancer and Its Scientific Basis, which summarized his therapy and the supporting evidence. (7) In my book The Trophoblast and the Origins of Cancer (co-authored with my colleague Dr. Linda L. Isaacs), I review Dr. Beard's work from the perspective of contemporary molecular biology.

After Dr. Beard's death in 1923, the enzyme therapy was largely forgotten. Periodically, other practitioners have rediscovered Dr. Beard's work, and used pancreatic proteolytic enzymes as an alternative cancer treatment. (8)
Dr. Beard believed the enzymes had to be injected, to prevent destruction by hydrochloric acid in the stomach. However, recent evidence demonstrates that orally ingested pancreatic proteolytic enzymes are acid-stable (9), pass intact into the small intestine, and are absorbed through the intestinal mucosa into the blood stream as part of an enteropancreatic recycling process. (10,11)

Dr. Beard believed the enzymes had to be injected, to prevent destruction by hydrochloric acid in the stomach. However, recent evidence demonstrates that orally ingested pancreatic proteolytic enzymes are acid-stable (9), pass intact into the small intestine, and are absorbed through the intestinal mucosa into the blood stream as part of an enteropancreatic recycling process.

I began researching the use of oral pancreatic proteolytic enzyme therapy as a treatment for cancer after completion of my second year at Cornell University Medical College in 1981. At that time, I had the opportunity to meet Dr. William Donald Kelley, the Texas dentist who for twenty years had been treating cancer patients with a complicated nutritional therapy based on Beard’s enzyme treatment.

http://www.dr-gonzalez.com/history_of_treatment.htm
(Dr. Gonzalez was heavily influenced by Dr. Kelley. From what I read about Dr. Kelley, he initially had his patients on a strict vegan type diet, but later found that some people did better with a diet which included meat and Kelley stated that all people have their own individual physiology so he wasn't tied to a rigid one size fits all diet.)
__________________________________

Dr. Burr Ferguson and Dr. Walter Bryant Guy in the 1920-1930 used HCL therapy in cancer and other diseases successfully.

http://www.psychresearch.com/HCltherapyintro.html

_______________________________________


Thanks for this pancreas connection. There isn’t much focus on the pancreas except in the case of pancreatic cancer but I think that it is possible that there is an enzyme deficiency connection with “autoimmune” disease also.

Lita Lee has used a lot of principles from Ray Peat and you see this in her articles on her website, but she also advocates for the use of enzymes. If I recall, on one of the KMUD audio shows a caller asked Ray what his opinion of using enzymes was and he stated it was not necessary.

I think that enzyme therapy could be valid considering the levels of environmental toxicity that we are being assaulted with. These toxic elements degrade our delicate enzyme systems. I need to learn about enzymes as a piece of this complex puzzle.

 

[gbolduev]

Mas

the problem is that protein digestion takes more than enzymes. the problem could be liver ( no bile)could be no stomach acid( gastrin related to tin deficiency or acetylcholine problems) could be problems with sodium potassium because of PH disregulation. POtassium is heavily used in PH balance for instance.

So when I created a program for people, it was a full support of every digestion chain. I gave free form aminos, gave HCL, and of course made sure that they have balanced SODs, manganese copper zinc.

I know it is a lot more complex.

 

[InChristAlone]

I worked with a metabolic typing practitioner for a while before I found Peat, he believed in using pancreatic enzymes and digestive support, I didn't see any difference using any of that. In fact I believe I got worse because he said I was a fast oxidizer and needed to slow it down by avoiding carbs and eating LOTS of purine meats and veggies. I couldn't do it. While I did fall into blood sugar dysregulation doing high sugar for a while, I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel and can actually have days where I get no stress response. Yesterday was one such day, and I did not take cypro.

 

[gbolduev]

Jannel


That is exactly my point. You can only help yourself. BUt that has nothing to do with Peat. If you are a fast oxidizer as your practioner was telling you , then no wonder Peats diet works for you . Fast oxidizer needs copper and calcium and they usually run low on sugar. Peats diet is ideal for you in this case.
But you are a minority.

When I helped people and I saw a fast oxidizer on hairtests, I always tell them to do Peats diet, it saved me time explaining. And all of them do well on Peats diet.

If I put slow oxidizer on Peats diet , they always scream , since calcium lowers metabolism and copper lowers metabolism.

Also if you are in anabolic state and your aldosterone is higher than cortisol . People will also do very badly on Peats diet, since his diet increases sodium potassium ratio . And people with anabolism need to decrease it with zinc or magnesium , not copper and calcium.

So basically I chose diets that matched many metabolic types and then I would just tell people to do this or that diet according to their type. And that cost no money.


From these simple examples you can see how balancing works.

Also you can go from one balance to another, and lets say you do Peat for a while and boom then you will feel bad, since you will go into slow oxidation and Peat wont be good for you anymore.

Ray Peats diet is nothing but one sided diet for certain body chemistry for a certain period of time. IT is not ideally balanced, since copper and calcium in that diet prevails, and copper zinc ratio will be always impaired and calcium magnesium ratio will also be impaired in the end.

SO for people who have lower calcium and low sodium to potassium ratio, Ray peats diet is ideal.
For poeple who have lower magnesium than calcium , and lower zinc than copper, Ray Peats diet is death.

 

[haidut]

Haidut

Low energy will be in hypo or hypermetabolism since in both you will have sugar problems . In one insulin resistance and in second hypoglycemia.

Can you provide studies where aspirin increases ceruloplasmin or thyroid increases ceruloplasmin please

Also I read in this article that without thyroid you dont retain copper.that is why he gives high copper diet, oranges, liver

It said nothing about ceruloplasmin. Actually ceruloplasm is controled by adrenal glands, and rises with estrogen . You have low estrogen low ceruloplasmin which again contradicts Peat.


Also it is funny how you say thyroid is the issue)))) Thyroid can have 10-15 types of imbalances.

Try to give thyroid to some one with weak adrenals)))) YOUR ferritin will skyrocket. WHY? your body will try to take all iron out of blood to stop thyroid


Pregnenolone and DHEA are ok for a man . It is beleived they chelate copper by actually binding it with ceruloplasmin. And actually when you have low adrenals because of high cortisol they can help .

But the thing is , why do you have high cortisol . Is it cushings or is it pancreas. That is the thing. it is definetely not stress or because you dont eat protein. EVERYONE eat too much protein usually


Does cortisol substitute for low thyroid? but then your TSH would be up not down, but in chronic fatique it can be low and high . LOw is when you are protein deficient , high is when you have thyroid problem which can be solved with zinc or selenium may be.

I don't have low estrogen and low ceruloplasmin. My case was the exact opposite - I had ceruloplasmin close to upper range, normal serum copper and normal plasma estrogen. My liver enzymes were also normal, so it was not related to liver. So, you see that ceruloplasmin is not always related to estrogen. It could be due to low iron stores.
Believe it or not I was midly iron deficient confirmed with high transferrin, high iron binding capacity, low ferritin and normal serum iron. I took the idea of iron chelation a bit too seriously and was using several uncouplers in an effort to lose weight. So, aspirin, caffeine, and methylene blue all turned out to chelate iron very well. In addition, I was taking some doxycycline as per doctor prescription and doxycycline is also a very powerful iron chelator. So, that seemed to be my issue.
After I reduced the iron chelators and took some zinc things fell back to normal. Btw, my ceruloplasmin matches perfectly my thyroid intake. I usually do not take thyroid but when I do ceruloplasmin goes from middle of the range to the upper 25% and that is when I feel best. I suppose this is b/c ceruloplasmin carries copper to the cell and takes iron out of the cell. I guess this is one reason thyroid and aspirin lower iron. Here is one study showing thyroid increases ceruloplasmin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22220593

"...Thyroid hormone action is mediated by the thyroid hormone receptors TRα1 and TRβ. Defects in TRβ lead to RTH (resistance to thyroid hormone) β, a syndrome characterized by high levels of thyroid hormone and non-suppressed TSH (thyroid-stimulating hormone). However, a correct diagnosis of RTHβ patients is difficult as the clinical picture varies. A biochemical serum marker indicative of defects in TRβ signalling is needed and could simplify the diagnosis of RTHβ, in particular the differentiation to TSH-secreting pituitary adenomas, which present with clinically similar symptoms. In the present paper we show that serum copper levels are regulated by thyroid hormone, which stimulates the synthesis and the export of the hepatic copper-transport protein ceruloplasmin into the serum. This is accompanied by a concerted reduction in the mRNA levels of other copper-containing proteins such as metallothioneins 1 and 2 or superoxide dismutase 1. The induction of serum copper is abolished in genetically hyperthyroid mice lacking TRβ and human RTHβ patients, demonstrating an important role of TRβ for this process. Together with a previously reported TRα1 specific regulation of serum selenium, we show that the ratio of serum copper and selenium, which is largely independent of thyroid hormone levels, volume changes or sample degradation, can constitute a valuable novel biomarker for RTHβ. Moreover, it could also provide a suitable large-scale screening parameter to identify RTHα patients, which have not been identified to date."

And here is another study in aspirin-aggravated upper airways inflammation showing aspirin increased ceruloplasmin. This increase was noted only in patients treated with aspirin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23786280
"...Eosinophil cationic protein and CysLT levels both increased significantly during the early response in AERD. ECP levels increased until the late response in AERD, while CysLT levels were not significantly increased during the late response. Proteomic analysis showed up-regulation of apolipoprotein A1 (ApoA1), α2-macroglobulin (α2M) and ceruloplasmin (CP), with significant increases in NLF of AERD patients, which was significantly higher in AERD patients with chronic rhinosinusitis. Significant correlations were noted between ECP and CysLT, ApoA1, α2M and CP levels during the early response in AERD patients."

 

[InChristAlone]

That is awesome you were able to help people gboldeuv! yes I think a diet that works for one person can be really bad for another. When you say "peat's diet" can you recall exactly what you think that means? Because I don't think he prescribes one size fits all, but yes it an be heavy on the calcium. I am curious when you say calcium is horrible for people stuck in anabolism. I have my husband drinking lots of milk during the day usually 4-6 cups, with meat as well and OJ. And he's done nothing but get more sluggish despite this higher carb diet. He is now taking thyroid and seeing his numbers and energy improve, but I still think something is not right. What type of diet would you give someone with a slow metabolism?

 

[gbolduev]

Haidut

If your ceruloplasmin is highish means you are fast oxidizer. NOT SLOW. In that case your copper will be used to slow down your thyroid. Ceruloplasmin will be up. That is normal for your body chemistry.



When you take T3 your body will take iron out of blood into the liver.

Iron deficiency does not cause high ceruloplasmin. If you have normal iron in blood you are fine, but if you have low ferritin , you can have 2 possible problems, either you are low on manganese or you are low on vitamin B2 or you take in too much copper

I found 2-3 studies that show aspirin lowers ceruloplasmin.

 

[gbolduev]

That is awesome you were able to help people gboldeuv! yes I think a diet that works for one person can be really bad for another. When you say "peat's diet" can you recall exactly what you think that means? Because I don't think he prescribes one size fits all, but yes it an be heavy on the calcium. I am curious when you say calcium is horrible for people stuck in anabolism. I have my husband drinking lots of milk during the day usually 4-6 cups, with meat as well and OJ. And he's done nothing but get more sluggish despite this higher carb diet. He is now taking thyroid and seeing his numbers and energy improve, but I still think something is not right. What type of diet would you give someone with a slow metabolism?

Slow oxidizer is usually insulin resistant, He needs to eat more food that contains manganese and zinc. And take off foods that have calcium and copper , like milk and orange juice. Orange juice is loaded with copper and milk is loaded with calcium that is not good for slow oxidizer at all.

Sugar is not that good for slow oxidizer , slow oxidizer needs more insulin their sugar is usually highish as it is. Fast oxidizer like you run low on sugar.

He needs to eat more foods with manganese , zinc magnesium and potassium and stay away from copper and calcium foods.. Also decrease fats
Usually taking superfoods are good for slow oxidizers, like spirulinas , marine plankton. they speed up metabolism may be even kelp.

If your husband feels better on thyroid. That means his sodium is higher than potassium and he might need potassium and zinc

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah he craves meat, he probably wouldn't be a milk drinker if I didn't tell him it was so good for him! haha he doesn't trust himself yet, I can tell when a food really is not working for me... I'm the opposite of him I feel badly eating a lot of meat. And yes he appears to be getting insulin resistant on this diet. Thank-you for your advice. Also I forgot to ask you when you say sodium to potassium ratio what would be better for fast metabolism? more sodium or more potassium? I am always confused on that.

is a slow oxidizer needs more potassium where should they get it if some fruits are high in copper? even potatoes have some which is high in potassium, also milk is such good source of potassium. Are they resigned to getting more veggies?

 

[gbolduev]

Yeah you need more veggies, and apple cider vinegar can be good for him for potassium

Sodium to potassium ratio can be in fast or slow oxidation. SO it really does not depend on oxidation. IN fast oxidizer if your sodium is higher than potassium you need more magnesium in relation to calcium and copper of course. But if your sodium is lower than potassium you need calcium and copper, this is the most common case which is Ray Peats case.

 

[haidut]

Haidut

If your ceruloplasmin is highish means you are fast oxidizer. NOT SLOW. In that case your copper will be used to slow down your thyroid. Ceruloplasmin will be up. That is normal for your body chemistry.



When you take T3 your body will take iron out of blood into the liver.

Iron deficiency does not cause high ceruloplasmin. If you have normal iron in blood you are fine, but if you have low ferritin , you can have 2 possible problems, either you are low on manganese or you are low on vitamin B2 or you take in too much copper

I found 2-3 studies that show aspirin lowers ceruloplasmin.

No vitamin B2 deficiency at least based on blood tests. Have not tested manganese but probably no need since as I said as soon as I stopped the high doses aspirin, caffeine, etc the transferrin and ferritin levels became normal and ceruloplasmin came down from 95% to 75%. Also, like I said thyroid seems to be a primary regulator of ceruloplsamin for me. When I take thyroid ceruloplasmin goes up as the study I posted says. Aspirin, caffeine, etc are all mimics of thyroid so their effect on ceruloplasmin makes sense for me. Can you please send study on aspirin lowering ceruloplasmin?
Anyways, I have a question. If high ceruloplasmin means fast oxidizer and ceruloplasmin is what carries copper into the cell and makes it usable then why do you say copper lower metabolism (together with calcium)? Also, in the absense of zinc deficiency calcium should raise temperature. See below studies.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 1315.x/pdf
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/907S.full

Again, I agree that in zinc deficient people calcium will make things worse. But in non-deficient people calcium is actually a strong promoter of oxidation.

So, considering above info on calcium and ceruloplasmin can you please elaborate on why calcium and copper will lower metabolism in non-zinc-deficient people?

 

[tara]

I think it makes sense that people are out of balance in different ways, and therefore their optimal restorative diet would be different.

Also remembering that Reams (RBTI) was very keen on green juices before meals - I think this was at least in part about chlorophyll to support the pancreas in it's role in digestion.

 

[sunmountain]

"So if your pancreas are not working properly , what will happen if you give more protein into the body?
You will be toxic in all this ammonia and indigested crap in your small intestine and will get SIBO."

Hi Gbolduev,

I'm insulin resistant and methane SIBO and eating a good amount protein (mainly farmer cheese).

Can you please say what are the simple aminos you mention up thread? I supplement only glycine at present. I cannot tolerate gelatin.