CO2 Bathing [Experiment Included]

m_arch

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After my good experience with a high temperature bath, (amplifying my metabolism and recovery breathing) I thought I'd try CO2 bathing. CO2 bathing is recommended by Dr. Peat, although he didn't specify the method (either dry co2 bath, putting the gas in the water directly, or the method I've done below). The author of recovery breathing also recommends it, his website is best viewed on google chrome so you can use the translator: Verkstedet Bodywork & Breathing System

Because my CP is low (which I currently theorise is because I have a lower Ph in my blood - which I am interested to raise it and see the effects), and because it seems to be the easiest and most cost effective method, I've decided to try bicarbonate and citric acid baths. One type of baking soda / cirtic acid bath is the common "bath bomb" or "bath fizzer" that you may already know of. Basically, the two interact when mixed with water and give off CO2.

The idea is that because of the nature of CO2, it is heavier than water, and so stays in the water, clings to your body, and absorbs through your skin.

People have also done plain baking soda baths, but according to this source, you need to use a lot more baking soda by itself because its not as readily absorbable comparatively to the CO2: CO2 Medicine & Bath Bombing Your Way to Health
Dr Sircus seems to have varying ideas to Peat. He emphasises high PH to kill cancer, and he loves his bicarbonates. And also seems to be a huge fan of magnesium and selenium.

It seems carbon dioxide bathing has been used for a long time to treat a variety of conditions which you can read here; http://www.centro-lavalle.com/edu/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Carbon_Dioxide_Bath.pdf

Of interest in this article is the temperature of the water.
Fig 1 shows that at 37c, normal water will not make your skin flush, however if it is infused wit the slightest amount of co2 it will make your skin flush.
It also shows that at a lower temperature such as 22c, you can still get significant flushing of the skin if CO2 concentrations are high enough.

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My experiment:
First I ran a hot bath and these were my results;
spO2 - 96% / 75 BPM
CP: 15sec

Then I added two bath bombs (generic purchase from a store) and waited 15 minutes;
spO2 - 96% / 70 BPM
CP: 17 sec

Conclusion:
I suspect there was not enough bicarb and citric acid for a significant effect.
However there does seem to be an increase in CP and a lowering of BPM which is in line with the supposed effects of CO2.

This could be good for people who have heart problems, as a hot bath can raise the heart rate too high. One of the links above mentioned that you can have a lower temperature bath using CO2 water, even though the water feels warmer (an effect of the CO2). If you want to go hard then you can go piping hot water + CO2.
The piping hot water does seem to create a stress response however. Perhaps more sugar and nutrients will offset this, but it does seem like a lower temperature bath + co2 is a better idea.

I also did some recovery breathing, and my spO2 got down to 92%.
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My capnometer was out of batteries so I couldn't test this measurement, but I plan too.
Also I have a laser temperature measuring device I got off ebay cheaply - so I plan to follow the temperature of the water more closely in the future. This bath wasn't as hot as my last one and that reflects in the lower CP and BPM initially.

I plan to buy big bags of citric acid and baking soda, load up 1.5 cups of each in a hot bath 3x a week for a month and see if this has any effect on raising my CP which seems to be stuck at 10-15 seconds.

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If this doesn't work, I'll try bicarbonate (it will probably have more of an effect of raising my pH) by itself maybe at 4 cups a bath in order to raise my CP (I can't stand swallowing the stuff) - as dr. sircus says baking soda by itself is less absorbable. But it has been observed by Tara (Bag breathing vs. baking soda?) that baking soda by itself tends to raise pH, while co2 / co2 breathing seems to lower pH.
 
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whit

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I've been using the combination of epsom salt baking soda and vinegar bathing for some time.
The effect was very calming and balancing. Pain relief was the most profound factor I noticed.
I'd tried them separately previously but never together.
 
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m_arch

m_arch

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I've been using the combination of epsom salt baking soda and vinegar bathing for some time.
The effect was very calming and balancing. Pain relief was the most profound factor I noticed.
I'd tried them separately previously but never together.

I would be interested to hear your experience if you try them together.

Epsom salt baths would be interesting to test to see the immediate physiological effects too.


I've also done some more research on the forums and it seems like breathing baking soda through a nebuliser might be of more benefit than bathing in it for alkalinity.
 

whit

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I was intersted to experience the effect of greater magnesium levels.
Peat had mentioned in an interview that CO2 would increase the affinity of mag and other minerals.
It worked for me quite well. It almost seemed too simple. The benefit lasted for about a week or so.
 

whit

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The ratio of soda to vinegar that I used was 4 to 1 the epsom salt was one cup.
I dissolved the soda and epsom salt and got in and then added the vinegar.
Its like sitting in a bath of seltzer water. The skin goes all pink.
I think your right about the temp needing to be comfortable not too hot.
Very relaxing though when one has the time.
 
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m_arch

m_arch

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Latest experiment ; submerged to my armpits

3:40pm
Bath starts at 43 c
10 min later
Temp now 40 c
Bpm at 76
O2 at 96%

Reheat bath to 43c
Dump 500g of bicarb
Dump 75g of citric acid
Now in soda bath
10 min later
Temp at 38c
Bpm at 90
O2 at 95%

Start recovery breathing for 10 min
Bpm max at 112
O2 min at 90%
End experiment

Feel a bit stressed, need food!
 

paymanz

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im interesting in your high temperature bath experiment...you made a log for that too?
 
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m_arch

m_arch

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im interesting in your high temperature bath experiment...you made a log for that too?
yes, in this thread; Breakthrough With CO2 Breathing? New Experiment

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I also just did a CP measurement, about 3 hours after the bath and it seems my CP as 25 seconds.

My usual CP before beginning this experiment was 10 seconds.

I will re-test tomorrow morning to see if my MCP reflects this change!!!
 

Heidi

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I also just did a CP measurement, about 3 hours after the bath and it seems my CP as 25 seconds.
That is great news that your CP stayed elevated 3 hours later. It will be interesting to see if it stays elevated even longer than that. Also it will be good to see what the capnometer shows when you get the batteries for it. Do you notice any differences in how you feel when your CP is higher?

I've done baking soda and Epsom salt baths in the past, especially for sore muscles. I remember feeling very tired and relaxed after the baths. I've done bath bombs when someone gave them to me. I will try baking soda with vinegar or citric acid. I'm curious what it will due to my CP as regular baths lower CP for me.

Thanks for your research and posting all the links and results of your experiments!
 

lindsay

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This is very interesting! I'll be curious to see how you progress! I absolutely HATE hot baths and high heat unless I am sweating - love hot Sauna's and cold water baths, hate hot baths. They seem to increase the stress response for me (even with epsom salts and baking soda) and I cannot tolerate sitting in a hot bath unless I can get out and get relief. That being said, I know a friend who recently went to a spa where they have bath therapy with a TON of epsom salt in the baths and she said it was amazing. I've been wanting to try loading up the tub with a few lbs. of epsom salt and some baking soda and see how it compares to a regular epsom salt bath. Just food for thought.

That being said, I experienced with baths a lot in the past and because I feel great after going into the ocean, I decided to add salt to the bath water - I don't recommend this. Stings like crazy.
 

tara

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The benefit lasted for about a week or so.
The benefit lasted for a week after one bath? That's significant.
 
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m_arch

m_arch

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That is great news that your CP stayed elevated 3 hours later. It will be interesting to see if it stays elevated even longer than that. Also it will be good to see what the capnometer shows when you get the batteries for it. Do you notice any differences in how you feel when your CP is higher?

I've done baking soda and Epsom salt baths in the past, especially for sore muscles. I remember feeling very tired and relaxed after the baths. I've done bath bombs when someone gave them to me. I will try baking soda with vinegar or citric acid. I'm curious what it will due to my CP as regular baths lower CP for me.

Thanks for your research and posting all the links and results of your experiments!
Mcp is 24 seconds. I wouldn't of believed it if it wasn't me who did the experiments!

I've decided not to use the capnometer in the bath ; I think the steam off the water screws it up.

I feel like my breath is lighter. My stomach was hurting last night but I have felt crap before overdoing it with the temperature of the bath lol. Nevertheless, let it be known my stomach felt dodgy. Its now the morning after, and it feels fine. I'll be watching for this again!

I also seem to wake up earlier (5am today as opposed to usually dragging myself out at 7:3am) feeling more refreshed.


Heres a little about a potentially unknown on this forum idea (and what Sircus thinks the bicarb will do).
The high "Ph" recommending alternative doctors, like Dr Sircus, say that a high Ph (he recommends a Ph of 8 for one week on, increased by bicarb, and measured by Ph strips, then a week off taking a break, then a week on, etc) will do many amazing things - including curing cancer. I think I will just try the Co2 baths 2 or 3 times a week for a month and see what happens to my CP. Buteyko also mentioned countless things would be improved from an increased CP, which everyone can read about at www.normalbreathing.com
A quote from a commenter on this youtube -
"This treatment is based on the theory that Cancer is caused by massive intra cellular infestation of single cell yeast,Candida Albicans. Candida A produces and thrives in acidic, low ph, environment and produce prolific mycotoxins that can issue commands to the insulin producing cells in the pancreas,...to STOP secreting insulin. NahCo3 , by increasing the body ph, will put these Candidas into stasis, and eliminate the mycotoxins"
Which would be great if it were true, I think I may have too much Candida (which would make sense given my low CP being indicative of a lower Ph).

I have heard vaguely about germ theory before - which I think the Ph idea aligns with - which goes on to say that germs are not what we think they are. TLDR; They exist in a terrain, and its not the germ that comes in and makes us sick, is the toxic terrain of our bodies that allows bacteria to develop into parasites and bad bacteria etc that makes us sick. Its an interesting idea that parts at the root of the idea of a germ. It makes some sense in that there are some people that seemingly never get sick, and others that seemingly always get sick. Although there are obviously other factors that could account for this too, such as higher genetic immune protection etc

Does anyone know if Ray has written about Ph?

I'm curious how you will go too @Heidi , I hope this helps you!
 
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m_arch

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This is very interesting! I'll be curious to see how you progress! I absolutely HATE hot baths and high heat unless I am sweating - love hot Sauna's and cold water baths, hate hot baths. They seem to increase the stress response for me (even with epsom salts and baking soda) and I cannot tolerate sitting in a hot bath unless I can get out and get relief. That being said, I know a friend who recently went to a spa where they have bath therapy with a TON of epsom salt in the baths and she said it was amazing. I've been wanting to try loading up the tub with a few lbs. of epsom salt and some baking soda and see how it compares to a regular epsom salt bath. Just food for thought.

That being said, I experienced with baths a lot in the past and because I feel great after going into the ocean, I decided to add salt to the bath water - I don't recommend this. Stings like crazy.
Cold water baths?! Ahh.

I tried a niacin detox protocol previously that I completely botched. You're supposed to take niacin, and then half an hour later sit in a sauna. I took way too much niacin, to stupid levels. You were supposed to build up to it, but I took the max dose straight away because I didn't read enough on it. I got in the sauna and I wasn't sweating, so I started doing squats - and then started bucketing sweat. After my time was up I got out, however my skin remained flushed (and insanely itchy). Everyone was freaking out - I nearly went to the hospital! In the end I found relief from the itchyness in a cold bath. I think the mechanism here was that it shut down my body - helped close the pores of my skin and stop the detox reaction. Now I think about it, I also believe staying in the sauna or running a hot bath instead would have also provided relief (although probably a stress response too).

Its strange because cold water creates stress in that the body needs to burn energy too heat itself, but the hot water bath seems to be stressful if pushed as well. I don't know the mechanism for this - I guess its kind of like an uncoupler, in that the metabolic rate is sped up somehow. But it happens more acutely and tapers off more acutely too - so its hard to feed yourself adequately to avoid the response.

Maybe eating a bowl of potatoes before, while, and after a hot bath would help :p

I also like the ocean but I think that's more because it gets roasting hot here in the summer, so it's the alternating between the warm sun and cold water that i enjoy.
 
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lindsay

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Cold water baths?! Ahh.

I tried a niacin detox protocol previously that I completely botched. You're supposed to take niacin, and then half an hour later sit in a sauna. I took way too much niacin, to stupid levels. You were supposed to build up to it, but I took the max dose straight away because I didn't read enough on it. I got in the sauna and I wasn't sweating, so I started doing squats - and then started bucketing sweat. After my time was up I got out, however my skin remained flushed (and insanely itchy). Everyone was freaking out - I nearly went to the hospital! In the end I found relief from the itchyness in a cold bath. I think the mechanism here was that it shut down my body - helped close the pores of my skin and stop the detox reaction. Now I think about it, I also believe staying in the sauna or running a hot bath instead would have also provided relief (although probably a stress response too).

Its strange because cold water creates stress in that the body needs to burn energy too heat itself, but the hot water bath seems to be stressful if pushed as well. I don't know the mechanism for this - I guess its kind of like an uncoupler, in that the metabolic rate is sped up somehow. But it happens more acutely and tapers off more acutely too - so its hard to feed yourself adequately to avoid the response.

Maybe eating a bowl of potatoes before, while, and after a hot bath would help :p

I also like the ocean but I think that's more because it gets roasting hot here in the summer, so it's the alternating between the warm sun and cold water that i enjoy.

That sounds like it was one crazy experiment!! Yikes!!

In Russia they have what they refer to as Banya (it's basically a sauna tradition). You go into a REALLY hot sauna with wet heat - throwing water on the warm coals or in the oven. It's insanely hot - somewhere around 175 degrees F (not sure in Celsius). You basically sit their until you are sweating buckets and cannot stand the heat any longer - I usually have to cover my eyes because the heat stings so much. Then you leave and jump in a giant tub of cold water. If you don't have a tub, a bucket with cold water, lake, pond or snow will do. You repeat this process for as long as you want - we usually last 2 hours with breaks for tea in between. Also, while in the sauna, you "massage" (more like beat) each other with oak branches soaked in tea and herbs. The whole process is incredibly relaxing and amazing feeling. I love it. Feels very detoxing and energizing. Not to mention just plain old fun. I can tolerate a hot sauna much better than a hot bath, but that's because I like the way sweating feels. The cold water "bath" afterwards compliments it perfectly :)

When you say you took Niacin, do you mean you took Niacinamide? Or just Vitamin B3?
 
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m_arch

m_arch

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That sounds like it was one crazy experiment!! Yikes!!

In Russia they have what they refer to as Banya (it's basically a sauna tradition). You go into a REALLY hot sauna with wet heat - throwing water on the warm coals or in the oven. It's insanely hot - somewhere around 175 degrees F (not sure in Celsius). You basically sit their until you are sweating buckets and cannot stand the heat any longer - I usually have to cover my eyes because the heat stings so much. Then you leave and jump in a giant tub of cold water. If you don't have a tub, a bucket with cold water, lake, pond or snow will do. You repeat this process for as long as you want - we usually last 2 hours with breaks for tea in between. Also, while in the sauna, you "massage" (more like beat) each other with oak branches soaked in tea and herbs. The whole process is incredibly relaxing and amazing feeling. I love it. Feels very detoxing and energizing. Not to mention just plain old fun. I can tolerate a hot sauna much better than a hot bath, but that's because I like the way sweating feels. The cold water "bath" afterwards compliments it perfectly :)

When you say you took Niacin, do you mean you took Niacinamide? Or just Vitamin B3?
175F is 79c according to google - thats hot.
It sounds like a tribal ritual with the oak branch beating!

I took a product called niacin. I think niacin is the one that causes flushing, but niacinamide doesn't. Peat recommends much lower doses of niacinamide, not niacin. I think they are both B3. Theres a facebook group if you're interested: Log into Facebook | Facebook
I never tried it again though. I read something about it being used in scientology so I backed away lol
 

Heidi

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Mcp is 24 seconds. I wouldn't of believed it if it wasn't me who did the experiments!
Did you mean just your regular CP not the maximum?

I've decided not to use the capnometer in the bath ; I think the steam off the water screws it up.
What about taking a baseline reading before and then another one a short while after you were completely done?
 

lindsay

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:lol: And I thought it was vodka.

LOL :cheers There's a whole Soviet New Year's movie involving banya and vodka (It's really great - called "The Irony of Fate OR Enjoy Your Bath"..... but we just drink tea during the process.
 

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