A High-carb Diet May Explain Why Okinawans Live So Long

[Davsey85]

Interesting haidut,

I heard from dr kruse that in an emf
and blue light world

A diet closer to Keto would be more
beneficial towards mitchondrial health

Don’t have much experience with this though

 

[Cirion]

Kruse is dead wrong IMHO.

I thought Kruse had some merit as well until I read an epic 60+ page debate thread there on his forums where one guy laid the smackdown on Kruse and Kruse really didn't have any good comebacks.

The long story short of the argument was this:

EMF is a stressor. Many things in life are a stressor (darkness etc, blue light). Both Kruse and RP's philosophies converge here.

Where the disconnect is this:

Carbs have proven anti-stress properties. Dietary fat does not. Higher dietary fat intake works fine where there is no stressor and there is plenty of sunlight. Kruse basically admits as much. But the thing is if there is no stressor and plenty of sunlight, carbs work great for that too! PUFA's are actually not that stressful if one is healthy, this one guy posted pages and pages of evidence for this, but ARE stressful if one is NOT healthy (again, pages of evidence, that Kruse had no comeback to). Again, PUFA's simply CAN NOT BE metabolized correctly (anti-thyroid by products) in the context of high stress, unhealthy individuals. Full stop. Kruse's only comeback was "Well, they need more sunlight, less EMF, less blue light" so that anti-thyroid by products are not formed. Of course that will help, but that's not always an option, and carbs are the only solution when one can not get rid of all the stressors.

I'll post the thread if I can find it again.

Because carbs are the only major macronutrient that is not only protective against stress, but also protective in a low stress environment, the choice should be obvious. And it is. Carbs for the win.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Dr. Peat's point is that liver health is poor and more protein helps the liver metabolize under the stresses of our diet etc. And that low protein drives down metabolic rate by depriving the liver of ability to adequately process.

I think if we started out with low PUFA high carb diets, we probably could do fine with low protein. But most of us need remedial protein levels at this point, does that make sense?

 

[Cirion]

Dr. Peat's point is that liver health is poor and more protein helps the liver metabolize under the stresses of our diet etc. And that low protein drives down metabolic rate by depriving the liver of ability to adequately process.

I think if we started out with low PUFA high carb diets, we probably could do fine with low protein. But most of us need remedial protein levels at this point, does that make sense?

I agree with this. Protein is a building block. Someone otherwise healthy can probably get away with lower protein. But in someone with a damaged body, protein can be needed to provide the building blocks to repair damaged muscle, organs, skin, bone, etc etc.

the point should be emphasized though QUALITY protein. Peat says that some proteins like those high in anti-metabolic amino acids can actually cause muscle WASTING ironically enough. Glycine in ample quantities to balance the AA's (and maybe BCAA's also) would help prevent that

 

[Waremu]

I wonder how they cook their food. For conveniency and financial purpose I've been using potatoes but the phosphate/calcium ratio is (supposedly) atrocious. It would be interesting to know if we benefit from diosgenin if we consume yams or if it's destroyed during digestion or cooking.

I did a one year experiment where after cutting starches out to normalize calcium to phos. ratios more, my cavities came back. They initially went away after going starch free and having a favorable calcium to phos. ratio for a few years of Peating. Sweet and white potatoes and white rice once or twice per week were my main starch sources. It was the only thing I changed about my diet. The cavities took a longer amount of time to return compared to the first time when my vitamin intake was lower, so the Vitamin A and K and D probably helped slow cavities down from returning this second time, (at the time I couldn't tell if it was the vitamins or calcium to phos. that helped my cavities go away, which is why I did it a second time with the vitamins added, but keeping starch in), but it appears that the calcium to phos. was the major player in healing my teeth. Ever since seeing my dentist, the cavities haven't increased and have continued to go away to where they are just about back to being gone. I love potatoes as a food, but ever since that and the general serotonin/endotoxin issues I get from them and starch in general, I am convinced that they are not for me. But that made me a believer in what Ray says about calcium to phos. ratios. There was a post on here from someone who did the same thing and had their cavities go away, which is what initially inspired me to try it. It was hard stopping the potatoes though. Huge childhood staple of mine. But it's easier now that I have quit.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

Lately I've been leaning more and more towards eating only plants. I think that it's the intended diet for humans, but the sicker we are, the more we need to sacrifice animals. When we can't form our own cholesterol, hormones, vitamin A etc, we need to steal that stuff from the animals. Sort of steal their life. The healthier I've become over the years, the more I find I can sustain a plant diet. A good "Peaty" plant diet. Actually I find getting relief from certain problems that haven't gone away "Peating" with different sorts of animal foods. Skin issues, digestion, mental/emotional well-being, blood sugar stability. I'm still experimenting though, and if I feel like I need a steak or eggs, I'll damn sure eat it.

When a persons health is destroyed with toxic food and toxic society, no wonder they need to sacrifice their animal friends to get that life force. And when they try a vegan diet, especially that kind of vegan diet that the "experts" recommend, their cholesterol and hormones will go though the floor, and sure enough when they eat a steak they'll feel alive again. Nobody should be forced to a plant diet, but when slowly building towards a functioning metabolism, I think it's possible to not need animal sacrifices anymore at some point.

I've been sort of flirting with the plant diet for a while, but a few days ago I decided I'll try how long I can go. I'll be reporting to the forum at some point. Something about only eating plants feels so right, I'm more excited about them than flesh/milk/eggs.
My plant diet has been/will be the following:
-Roots & Tubers (well-cooked)
-Refined Grains (well-cooked)
-Greens (well-cooked)
-Fruit Juices
-Dried Fruits (dates, bananas, raisins)
-Coconut Products
-Coffee
-Salt
-Vit D3 & Vit B12

I don't really count calories or anything religiously, but depending on the day somewhere between 2500-4000 calories. We'll see how it goes!

 

[tankasnowgod]

Lately I've been leaning more and more towards eating only plants. I think that it's the intended diet for humans

Who's intention do you think this is?

 

[damngoodcoffee]

Who's intention do you think this is?

Why God's of course!

 

[tankasnowgod]

Why God's of course!

Well, that's certainly a better authority than the United Nations or PETA.

 

[Cirion]

Yeah I mean regardless of your stance on religion, the fact is if indeed there was a garden of eden, we can pretty much agree it would be perfectly conducive to health

- Fresh, ripe fruit
- Ample sunlight
- Probably nice warm tropical climate
- No PUFA's
- Low stress
- No 9-5 job responsibilities
- Plenty of time in nature (24/7 in fact)
- No man made EMF's
- No artificial blue light
- No fake, fortified foods

 

[damngoodcoffee]

Yup. No fools running aroung thinking they own every ******* thing.

 

[Wagner83]

I did a one year experiment where after cutting starches out to normalize calcium to phos. ratios more, my cavities came back. They initially went away after going starch free and having a favorable calcium to phos. ratio for a few years of Peating. Sweet and white potatoes and white rice once or twice per week were my main starch sources. It was the only thing I changed about my diet. The cavities took a longer amount of time to return compared to the first time when my vitamin intake was lower, so the Vitamin A and K and D probably helped slow cavities down from returning this second time, (at the time I couldn't tell if it was the vitamins or calcium to phos. that helped my cavities go away, which is why I did it a second time with the vitamins added, but keeping starch in), but it appears that the calcium to phos. was the major player in healing my teeth. Ever since seeing my dentist, the cavities haven't increased and have continued to go away to where they are just about back to being gone. I love potatoes as a food, but ever since that and the general serotonin/endotoxin issues I get from them and starch in general, I am convinced that they are not for me. But that made me a believer in what Ray says about calcium to phos. ratios. There was a post on here from someone who did the same thing and had their cavities go away, which is what initially inspired me to try it. It was hard stopping the potatoes though. Huge childhood staple of mine. But it's easier now that I have quit.

Are you saying that eating starch once a week gives you cavities, or was it the white rice which you ate once or twice a week? As I said according to nutritiondata the calcium/phosphate ratio of sweet potatoes has nothing to do with the one of potatoes. Endotoxins issues could explain the teeth issues.

 

[saraleah]

Damngoodcoffee I'm doing this too but with clams or oysters every 10 days. Been vegetarian most of my life, vegan before, for 6 yrs, tried twice and failed so thats why I added the shellfish. And this time watching out for PUFA, no nuts, avocado or soy. No oat bran, wrong fiber. No vegan meals out due to high PUFA.
Been feeling really good. Prior times I have tried but struggled almost immediately with thinning hair, broken nails and buzzing in my ears, but I never cut PUFA and soluble fiber before.
Just those very impt well cooked greens tho-yuk I keep trying but loathe them. Even the critters in my garden wont touch them.

 

[Waremu]

Are you saying that eating starch once a week gives you cavities, or was it the white rice which you ate once or twice a week? As I said according to nutritiondata the calcium/phosphate ratio of sweet potatoes has nothing to do with the one of potatoes. Endotoxins issues could explain the teeth issues.

I am saying that using starch as my main carb source each day, where the calcium to phos. ratio was not favorable, I think was a major player in causing my cavities to come back. Not so much just sweet potatoes. I ate mostly potatoes every day and some white rice about once per week. Sweet potatoes weren't a huge portion of my carbs. Oh, I also forgot lentils I had regularly too. Mostly white potatoes and some lentils and little rice. I cooked them very well, even in coconut oil to minimize endotoxin. I am sure they could play a role as well, but I am more convinced the calcium to phos. ratio played a larger role because before I stopped eating starch, when I didn't have cavities, I ate starch in smaller amounts, but still enough that caused me to have digestive problems. And that went on for some time before I cut the starch out and went Peat. Then after Peating for a few years and putting starch back in heavily, thats when it began. Thats when cavities came back. I then cut them out and it took a year for them to go. The only major difference was my calcium to phos. ratio and the first time increasing vitamins A, D, K. The gut issues I had from starch were not very correlated to my cavities spreading. I think the favorable calcium to phos. ratio probably made it easier for my teeth to heal with the Vitamins A, D, and K. I remember Ray Peat saying that a more favorable ratio can make a more favorable healing environment for the teeth. It seems this matches my experience.

 

[Fractality]

Don't the Okinawans also live a relatively stress free lifestyle, no man-made EMFs, etc?

 

[Hairfedup]

For sure...you look at the diet of Senegambians and the Ivory Coast [not counting Nigeria here they're diet can be pretty awful] and its around 8:1 in terms of carb:protien. The people tend to be very lean and metabolically sound. The one thing I don't prescribe to in terms of peat is the exclusion of starches. But he may be right...most Westerners may not be genetically predisposed to eating starchy foods, particularly those rich in magnesium like yams, cassava, plantains etc.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Interesting... 10:1 Carb/protein seems rather extreme though... why do fruitarians often end up with health issues then? It seems some claim that you get deficiencies like B12 on this type of diet, others think its a non issue, so what's the deal?

I know @charlie is basically doing 10/1 carb protein currently I think, as he was basically doing a grape fast for a while and said he felt great doing that.

The okinawas dont consume that much fruit. Its sweet potato, rice, rice noodles so basically mostly starches.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

@saraleah I tried veganism before too a few years ago, with horrendous consequences. Ate mostly whole grains and beans, ruined my teeth, had no libido, just felt like a totally lifeless weak mess. I've been wanting to really try this "Peat-style" veganism for a long time but have been afraid of it because of my vegan past. When I first tried veganism my health had been bad for a long time already and like I mentioned the diet was not the best, so maybe I can do it now. I have this intuitive feeling that I'm ready for it now. As long as I avoid the cholesterol lowering, teeth rotting, gut ruining toxic crap.
Yeah the greens can be a bit.. not tasting like food for humans. Broccoli is not as dense nutrition as the leafy greens, but it's enjoyable and I can eat heaps of well-cooked broccoli so it's gonna be my main green veggie.

 

[Jackrabbit]

I like sweet potatoes but I started to feel off going 2 lbs a day, probably because vitamin A overdosing. 1 lb a day seems to be about my limit to avoid those effects

Sweet potatoes or yams? Sweet potatoes shouldn’t have all that much bets carotene as they are pale in color. Yams are like bright orange.

 

[Jackrabbit]

The okinawas dont consume that much fruit. Its sweet potato, rice, rice noodles so basically mostly starches.

But it said they consumed quite a bit less rice before modern times and now their health is suffering more than other Japanese.