A Cry For Help: Uncontrollable Fat Gain. Something Is FUNDAMENTALLY Wrong :(

[Vinny]

Is it one of those cheap scales that use "bioimpedance" to measure bf?

I don't know if it,s "bioimpedance". Could be. I've been using it for awhile, and it looks to me so far, that it does what it is made for. I hope Am not in a mistake.
And, it,s cheap, yes. Bought it for 8 euro.

 

[tara]

I really believe, that the lows of physics could be applied, with relative success, to soulless objects, but hardly to living things.

I guess I'm more attached to science than that. As far as I know, the laws of physics apply to everything physical, which definitely includes all living beings. There's a way that chemistry and biology fundamentally rely on physics at the lower level. Peat sometimes talks about the physical properties of elements and substances, and what that might mean in the body.
But I was actually meaning the physics of how the inanimate scale does it's measurements.

But this doesn't prove anything, right?

And it shouldn't. The most important thing is, if a certain approach gives me some benefit or no, with or without proper explanation. Everything else has no importance.

I agree - what works for you is what counts. It may take more than 48 hrs to find out.

 

[Zigzag]

I don't know if it,s "bioimpedance". Could be. I've been using it for awhile, and it looks to me so far, that it does what it is made for. I hope Am not in a mistake.
And, it,s cheap, yes. Bought it for 8 euro.

Sorry but for 8 euro you can be 100% sure it doesn't work properly.

 

[mipp]

I don't know if it,s "bioimpedance". Could be. I've been using it for awhile, and it looks to me so far, that it does what it is made for. I hope Am not in a mistake.
And, it,s cheap, yes. Bought it for 8 euro.

If it has those metal plates that you're supposed to touch with your bare feet that's it. I've had one like that for a couple years and I'm sceptical about the body comp results. I have to enter my age and height for this feature to work. The results are directly dependent on height, when I make myself "taller" bf drops. So my suspicion is that it actually calculates something like BMI, then pretends to measure bioelectrical impedance of my fat tissue or something. When I isolated my feet and just shortcut those electrodes with a piece of wire, the reults were more or less the same.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I don't know if it,s "bioimpedance". Could be. I've been using it for awhile, and it looks to me so far, that it does what it is made for. I hope Am not in a mistake.
And, it,s cheap, yes. Bought it for 8 euro.

Those scales, if they are measuring anything, are likely calculating the amount of water in the body.

All of the measures for estimating bodyfat can have issues. The only true way to know exact percentages is to be dissected, and have someone weigh fat, and then weigh lean tissue. Obviously, this isn't practical, or even possible, for the living.

Since they all have issues, and the main people even care is mostly for appearance sake, I think the army calculators are simple enough to be done frequently, and probably give an accurate enough estimate.

 

[Vinny]

@Zigzag
@mipp
@tankasnowgod
You beat me on the technical side. And, since it seems like there is no, at the present moment, a precise way to measure body fat, after whatever intervention, it becomes senseless to post any results, as they'll be met, probably with a good reason, with scepticism.

 

[tankasnowgod]

@Zigzag
@mipp
@tankasnowgod
You beat me on the technical side. And, since it seems like there is no, at the present moment, a precise way to measure body fat, after whatever intervention, it becomes senseless to post any results, as they'll be met, probably with a good reason, with scepticism.

I think metrics can still be useful. Weight, BMI, simple measurements like waist circumference. I'm not even convinced that the extra weight carried is even "fat" in the first place. I think it might be inflammation and edema. Waist circumference might be one of the best ones to track, because whatever it is (fat, inflammation, edema, something in the intestines, or liver) reducing that is truly our goal anyway.

 

[Jib]

Have you tried red light therapy? Could be helpful.

Do what you can to change. But there's a lot of power in acceptance. Basically, by freaking out constantly over your current condition, you're creating a stressful environment for yourself. I know because that's what I do. I just have moments of clarity when I can see that being so stressed out is only compounding the problem. Most likely a lot.

What I'm accepting is my current low-energy state. It's like being dead, only worse because I'm conscious of it. No motivation for life, no joy in anything, no social connection, no nothing. On top of that I'm short of breath all the time, no aerobic capacity at all, spend most of the day in bed and it's been like this for a long time now.

I'm not saying this to complain, but to make the point that I get how hard acceptance is. When your life is so far from what you want it to be, when your body is so at odds with everything you desire for yourself, it feels like you're stuck in a prison with no hope of getting out. It can feel like your life is over and you're just watching the tragedy unfold from the sidelines, as if you were watching a really depressing movie.

Getting out of this mindset is critical. It's a huge stress. Acceptance. Stop resisting. To be able to look at the condition of your body and accept where it is right now. Make a practice of this. Don't just acknowledge the concept; place value on actually feeling that acceptance. To be able to look at yourself, think of yourself, and your current condition, and feel OK with it.

The vicious cycle, the negative feedback loop, of feeling bad. It's very real. And very insidious. The positive thing is you can start addressing this now, and you do not have to lose a massive amount of weight to feel better right now. To start breaking this mental cycle of self abuse and self defeat.

I hope I am not projecting onto you too much. But in my own case I've been very desperate and have struggled a lot against myself. Hating my body and hating where I am and feeling even more exhausted for it: just focusing on all the things I can no longer enjoy because my body can't do them.

If any negative thoughts like this are part of your daily routine...address them. Recognize that they're there, and that they're not helping you.

I'm frantically trying everything I can, and maybe that's part of the problem. Even buying different supplements and devices can feel so stressful, like I'm just throwing money out the window in a frenzied panic, trying to save myself. Be aware if you're doing this. It's OK to try new things, new supplements, tools, whatever. Just be aware of your emotions throughout the process and what is arising from desperation and panic and other negative things. Recognize them and let them go.

The Gabriel Method is interesting to me. A main tenet of it is visualization. That's about all you need to know, and is all I know about that method. The power of visualizing yourself the way you want to be. If nothing else, it will give your mind time to relax and feel good creating a fantasy for itself. The cool thing is that fantasy may very well become a reality. You just never know.

Good luck. And remember, the goal is to enjoy life. There is no need to postpone the fulfillment of that goal. You can enjoy something right now. Anything. Something simple. Thinking like this will help shut down the stress response and get your body into an anabolic state. I'm sure of it.

 

[Sofia]

I dint know if someone mentioned, but if you cant make carbs into energy, then the mechanism is broken, as far as I know it can be fixed with helpers, but we dont know where it is broke, i would try for few day:1. succinic acid, it cheap on ebay, for few day its ok with fillers, 2. inosine 200 mg x few times day 3. methylene blue (was too strong for me), 4. vitamin C. 5.K vit or Q10 6. B vitamins.I read copper might be needed as well. I would say, leave the guts for later, fix mitochondria now.

 

[Vinny]

Have you tried red light therapy? Could be helpful.

Do what you can to change. But there's a lot of power in acceptance. Basically, by freaking out constantly over your current condition, you're creating a stressful environment for yourself. I know because that's what I do. I just have moments of clarity when I can see that being so stressed out is only compounding the problem. Most likely a lot.

What I'm accepting is my current low-energy state. It's like being dead, only worse because I'm conscious of it. No motivation for life, no joy in anything, no social connection, no nothing. On top of that I'm short of breath all the time, no aerobic capacity at all, spend most of the day in bed and it's been like this for a long time now.

I'm not saying this to complain, but to make the point that I get how hard acceptance is. When your life is so far from what you want it to be, when your body is so at odds with everything you desire for yourself, it feels like you're stuck in a prison with no hope of getting out. It can feel like your life is over and you're just watching the tragedy unfold from the sidelines, as if you were watching a really depressing movie.

Getting out of this mindset is critical. It's a huge stress. Acceptance. Stop resisting. To be able to look at the condition of your body and accept where it is right now. Make a practice of this. Don't just acknowledge the concept; place value on actually feeling that acceptance. To be able to look at yourself, think of yourself, and your current condition, and feel OK with it.

The vicious cycle, the negative feedback loop, of feeling bad. It's very real. And very insidious. The positive thing is you can start addressing this now, and you do not have to lose a massive amount of weight to feel better right now. To start breaking this mental cycle of self abuse and self defeat.

I hope I am not projecting onto you too much. But in my own case I've been very desperate and have struggled a lot against myself. Hating my body and hating where I am and feeling even more exhausted for it: just focusing on all the things I can no longer enjoy because my body can't do them.

If any negative thoughts like this are part of your daily routine...address them. Recognize that they're there, and that they're not helping you.

I'm frantically trying everything I can, and maybe that's part of the problem. Even buying different supplements and devices can feel so stressful, like I'm just throwing money out the window in a frenzied panic, trying to save myself. Be aware if you're doing this. It's OK to try new things, new supplements, tools, whatever. Just be aware of your emotions throughout the process and what is arising from desperation and panic and other negative things. Recognize them and let them go.

The Gabriel Method is interesting to me. A main tenet of it is visualization. That's about all you need to know, and is all I know about that method. The power of visualizing yourself the way you want to be. If nothing else, it will give your mind time to relax and feel good creating a fantasy for itself. The cool thing is that fantasy may very well become a reality. You just never know.

Good luck. And remember, the goal is to enjoy life. There is no need to postpone the fulfillment of that goal. You can enjoy something right now. Anything. Something simple. Thinking like this will help shut down the stress response and get your body into an anabolic state. I'm sure of it.

Hi,
Thanks for the support.
You describe very well how I feel sometimes.
Am trying to figure it out. All the best to you too.

 

[Vinny]

I dint know if someone mentioned, but if you cant make carbs into energy, then the mechanism is broken, as far as I know it can be fixed with helpers, but we dont know where it is broke, i would try for few day:1. succinic acid, it cheap on ebay, for few day its ok with fillers, 2. inosine 200 mg x few times day 3. methylene blue (was too strong for me), 4. vitamin C. 5.K vit or Q10 6. B vitamins.I read copper might be needed as well. I would say, leave the guts for later, fix mitochondria now.

Hi Sofia,
Yes, the mechanism (for burning sugar) is broken. Not still sure tho, what to address 1st - mitochondria or gut. Inosine and succ acid make a little difference, but ran both before to be able to draw good conclusions. Meth blue took in small doses only, we,ll see what happens when increase it...

 

[Sofia]

fro hormonesmatter.com "Research is emerging suggesting that gastrointestinal disturbances, particularly those of dysmotility like IBS, gastroparesis, constipation and pseudo obstruction but also anorexia are mitochondrial in nature. Indeed, the GI system has its own nervous system, called the enteric nervous system. Only 10-15% of GI motility is controlled from brain’s autonomic system. The rest is controlled on site by the enteric system, mostly from cells called the interstitial of cells Cajal – the smooth muscle cells that propagate contractility and rhythm and form the gut barrier between the inside contents and the rest of the body. The mitochondria control energy usage and production here. Mess with these cells, diminish oxygen usage, pull back energy production and all sorts of things go wrong. We can get ill-timed contractions or no contractions at all, making the movement of food stuffs through the GI impossible. Poor absorption and metabolism of nutrients, and increased permeability of the tight junctions allowing for the leaky gut scenario common in many chronic conditions, become prominent and are also symptoms of mitochondrial dysfunction. Even anorexia, the will to eat, can be disturbed significantly by mitochondrial damage."

 

[Vinny]

I,m slowly figuring it out...
Some of you have been correct. Am not losing fat during the fasts. It,s really impossible to drop 3-5 kg of adipose tissue for 3 days - no way, I agree.
It is WATER.

After another 3 day dry fast, when I looked myself in the mirror, could hardly recognise the person there. The bags under eyes had completely gone. I looked at least 10 years younger. Hadn,t had such a good appearance for decades. Felt light, and started again to fit into my clothes. Snoring went away too.

This morning thou, after I had broken the fast yesterday, the bags were back again and the scale showed 3 kg up...

So, Am edematous. Not fat. Am gaining water. This is for sure (and the scale, btw, was in great help to find it out. I regret I didn,t buy it earlier)

I don,t know much for edema, except it,s linked with some organ failure.
Let,s asume for the moment, that I have no orgam failure (except for my brain and my **** of course). From what then it could be? It,s inflamation, right? From what?
Infection...? What kind...? Where to look at? What to do from this point? Acetazolamide...? Carnivore diet anything...?
Chime in, brothers and sisters...

(@Cirion , I hope you read this, dude. You are not fat...)

(@haidut , можеш ли да удариш едно рамо, войводо?)

 

[Sofia]

IIRC, haidut wrote that tautrne helps to get water out of the cells. Could be B1 deficiency.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I,m slowly figuring it out...
Some of you have been correct. Am not losing fat during the fasts. It,s really impossible to drop 3-5 kg of adipose tissue for 3 days - no way, I agree.
It is WATER.

After another 3 day dry fast, when I looked myself in the mirror, could hardly recognise the person there. The bags under eyes had completely gone. I looked at least 10 years younger. Hadn,t had such a good appearance for decades. Felt light, and started again to fit into my clothes. Snoring went away too.

This morning thou, after I had broken the fast yesterday, the bags were back again and the scale showed 3 kg up...

So, Am edematous. Not fat. Am gaining water. This is for sure (and the scale, btw, was in great help to find it out. I regret I didn,t buy it earlier)

I don,t know much for edema, except it,s linked with some organ failure.
Let,s asume for the moment, that I have no orgam failure (except for my brain and my **** of course). From what then it could be? It,s inflamation, right? From what?
Infection...? What kind...? Where to look at? What to do from this point? Acetazolamide...? Carnivore diet anything...?
Chime in, brothers and sisters...

(@Cirion , I hope you read this, dude. You are not fat...)

(@haidut , можеш ли да удариш едно рамо, войводо?)

What foods did you break your fast with?

I'm in a similar situation as you when it comes to water retention. It's so hard to eliminate it.

You have tried antibiotics already, right? Have you tried nystatin or high dose niacinamide? Both are good against Candida, which is what I suspect I have right now( not really sure, just a guess really). The nystatin that I have access to here is loaded with excipients which make me really itchy/ give me zits, so I just took about 2,5 grams( so 2500 mg) of niacinamide a few minutes ago instead and let's see how that goes. I also took some methyl folate to balance out the depletion of methyl groups that niacinamide causes, as well as some potassium phosphate to balance out the lowering of phosphate that niacinamide causes.

If this strategy doesn't work, and I can't get my hands on some relatively pure nystatin, then that's it: I'll try the carnivore diet. I don't have access to enough fat right now, so I can't really do a proper carnivore diet currently. Let's hope the high dose niacinamide works.

Even when people do mostly everything right( Peating, sleeping enough, eating enough calories, taking thyroid, eating very little PUFA, etc.) for a while, they still can't seem to completely get rid of water retention. Perhaps being unhealthy for so long means the gut is just f*cked and needs extreme measures to heal( kinda like what haidut's friend did when he went to live in the mountains, far away from civilization). Until then, most other solutions will rarely be effective. Gut issues in general seem really hard to solve for good.

Cirion hasn't been on the forum for 3 months. I wonder what he's doing, diet -wise.

Try the acetazolamide. You'll need to ingest some extra minerals with it( potassium ,sodium, etc.)

If nothing else works and you decide to try the carnivore diet, just make sure to get high quality fat. The toxins that the animals are exposed to accumulate in the fat, so getting low quality fat would be bad. Even supermarket beef, as long as it's lean, wouldn't be too bad, although grass fed, high quality beef is surely much better( more nutrients, less toxins, more saturated fat, etc.)

 

[Vinny]

What foods did you break your fast with?

I'm in a similar situation as you when it comes to water retention. It's so hard to eliminate it.

You have tried antibiotics already, right? Have you tried nystatin or high dose niacinamide? Both are good against Candida, which is what I suspect I have right now( not really sure, just a guess really). The nystatin that I have access to here is loaded with excipients which make me really itchy/ give me zits, so I just took about 2,5 grams( so 2500 mg) of niacinamide a few minutes ago instead and let's see how that goes. I also took some methyl folate to balance out the depletion of methyl groups that niacinamide causes, as well as some potassium phosphate to balance out the lowering of phosphate that niacinamide causes.

If this strategy doesn't work, and I can't get my hands on some relatively pure nystatin, then that's it: I'll try the carnivore diet. I don't have access to enough fat right now, so I can't really do a proper carnivore diet currently. Let's hope the high dose niacinamide works.

Even when people do mostly everything right( Peating, sleeping enough, eating enough calories, taking thyroid, eating very little PUFA, etc.) for a while, they still can't seem to completely get rid of water retention. Perhaps being unhealthy for so long means the gut is just f*cked and needs extreme measures to heal( kinda like what haidut's friend did when he went to live in the mountains, far away from civilization). Until then, most other solutions will rarely be effective. Gut issues in general seem really hard to solve for good.

Cirion hasn't been on the forum for 3 months. I wonder what he's doing, diet -wise.

Try the acetazolamide. You'll need to ingest some extra minerals with it( potassium ,sodium, etc.)

If nothing else works and you decide to try the carnivore diet, just make sure to get high quality fat. The toxins that the animals are exposed to accumulate in the fat, so getting low quality fat would be bad. Even supermarket beef, as long as it's lean, wouldn't be too bad, although grass fed, high quality beef is surely much better( more nutrients, less toxins, more saturated fat, etc.)

Hi,

Broke the fast with some water and slightly sugared soft beverages, pineapple and a several hours later - ground beef. No problems.

I`ve got some nystatin in my cabinet, but haven`t tried it yet. Not sure about its safety/side effects, if any at all. Will give it a go another time. However, before the fast, I took 3 grams Niacinamide, for 2 days in a row. I felt NOTHING.
(btw, I used to be careless about excipients, but now changing my mind)

I can get some good fats in Cyprus. We`ve got a lot of sheep here.
Beef, labeled as grass fed, does not exist in Cyprus. Wouldn`t buy it anyway. But the one we have is tasty and not expensive.

 

[Vinny]

IIRC, haidut wrote that tautrne helps to get water out of the cells. Could be B1 deficiency.

Took B1 in unmodest amounts, felt absolutely nothing. Taking Taurine thou, aiming for high dosage.

 

[yerrag]

@Vinny, weren't you saying that you became fat after you did keto?

Or what was it that changed after your keto experiment?

 

[Vinny]

@Vinny, weren't you saying that you became fat after you did keto?

Hm, not exactly. During my low carb/keto periods, I was always lean.
Started gaining weight (which appeared water) after got discovered the forum and introduced again SUGAR in my diet (my first sweet treats were Kitkat bars).
Does that make sense?

 

[yerrag]

Hm, not exactly. During my low carb/keto periods, I was always lean.
Started gaining weight (which appeared water) after got discovered the forum and introduced again SUGAR in my diet (my first sweet treats were Kitkat bars).
Does that make sense?

And before your keto days, you were fat also?