A Cry For Help: Uncontrollable Fat Gain. Something Is FUNDAMENTALLY Wrong :(

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by Vinny, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    I`m desperate, folks. I`m balooning up. Today i literally bursted in tears when got to the scales and saw the numbers. Took some tape measuring too. The result is - I`m already MORBIDLY obese....

    It never happened before in my life, no matter what. Binge eating, high PUFA, alcohol abuse, huge amounts of stress, toxic relationships, very low exercise, horrible sleeping pattern, crazy diets (keto, for ex.) etc., - nothing of these was able to bring me even close to the OBESE range. Approximately a year ago though, after I discovered peating and started a new turn, my fat gain became a slowly, but steadily growing issue.

    When I think about the reasons why is this happening, I`ll start with exclusions:
    1. It is hardly a calorie abuse. No way, that I consume more than in my previous, crazy life. Absolutely not. If anything, it`s even less for my needs. I just eat till satiety, without forcing, slowly and mindfully. Plus, I gave up completely alcohol several years ago, which was, for sure, another source of unnecesary calorie intake.
    2. Cortisol is often blamed, and probably with a good reason, for adding fat, but hardly in my case. Can`t say that my life is completely balanced and joyfull, haven`t managed to bring it to such a level yet (and may be not so necessary), but the amount and the intensity of the psychological burden I have now, is uncomparable with what I sufferd in the past; if the cortisol was such an offender for me, it should have revealed itself long before. Plus, I tested cortisol once, and the sex ones several times, and everything was pretty good, every time. Some men, at my age, would pay dearly to have my testosterone levels (but I don`t feel it at all, anyway).
    3. No reason to suspect any mineral deficiencies. Done hair mineral test - everything was super ok.
    4. Lack of a certain vitamin is also not under suspicion, despite no such tests done. Took high doses of B`s and E, mega doses C, my D is fine (tested; wasted money - I live in Cyprus...) and never felt any diference.
    5. I`ve not been tested specifically for fatty liver, but I hardly got one. What I can say for sure, regarding the liver, is that it is SMALL (which is good), that an ultrasound test, done twice with a year gap, did not reveal whatever pathology, and liver enzymes were always normal, except with a slight deviation once, after a keto attempt. However, I feel sometimes heaviness/pain in the gallbladder/liver area, which is an indication that something there is not right, but what exactly, is still unknown. Gallbladder, btw, and the ducts, are also ok, according the same ultrasound test, done twice.

    Haven`t measured my Blood sugar recently, but there were never deviations in the past. However, I might have become diabetic - wouldn`t wonder.

    Measured fasted insulin twice. Several years ago was 5 (pretty nice), a couple of years ago climbed to 8 (still not too bad). I don`t know how`s now, can`t afford more tests, but will be probably up.
    Took some inflammatory markers too, like CRP and don`t remember exactly what else, may be homo-cysteine, all were good.

    Actually, from all tests, what was always high, way high, were my cholesterol levels - HDL, LDL and total. This whas during the high fat insanity, don`t know how are they now. In opposition to them, my triglycerides were always normal, even close to the low range.


    So, if the reason for my misery is nothing from the above, what it could be?
    The only possible explanation I`m in capacity to point now, is endotoxin.
    The shitt started about a 5 years ago, when I decided to become a superhuman, and went keto.
    It ended up quite bad; I almost died, but didn`t gain weight. The gains became obvious after, when i discovered Dr Peat and this forum, and introduced SUGAR into my meal plan. Meaning that: keto, either destroyed my ability to burn glucose for fuel, either destroyed my gut flora, leading to development of bad bacteria, FED BY THE SUGAR, that produce toxins/inflammation, leading to fat gain....
    This is what I`ve concluded so far. You`re allowed to disagree.

    I`m quite sure, however, I`ve got bad bugs. My juicy acne says a lot; I`m note sure, though, that they are making me a walking piece of lard.
    I`m going to make a plan, how to eradicate the critters, but in any case, I`d like to hear what you think.

    I feel horrible, beyond any hope, completely lost, like I`m battling an enemy way more stronger and experienced, that knows every move in advance and the outcome is destined, no matter what I do...... :(


    @Hans
    @yerrag
    @redsun
    @tankasnowgod
    @lampofred
    @Blossom
    @tara
    @CLASH
    and everyone else is welcome to chime in. Not going to bother my dear compatriote haidut - he`s extremely busy, as well as Cirion....
     
  2. docall18

    docall18 Member

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    Couldnt lose weight without thyroid. Tried peat diet, supps, coffee etc, just got heavier. Few grains of NDT done d trick.
     
  3. Hans

    Hans Member

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    Might be a gut thing, but cholesterol is almost always elevated due to low thyroid. The gut could cause low thyroid ofc.
    What have you tried for your gut so far?
    Also what does your diet look like? Type of food, liquid or solid, etc.
     
  4. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    My guess is that you're 100% right about endotoxins. I'm not exactly sure about the mechanism as to why it's protective, but I think weight gain is a protective reaction to endotoxin. Running on adrenals will keep you skinny even if there are lots of endotoxins (by burning fat) but I think this is a cancerous metabolism and an unhealthy type of leanness. Turning off the adrenals via avoiding PUFA and eating sugar will allow the protective weight gain reaction to take place.

    As to how to reduce endotoxin, I think endotoxin levels are dependent on stomach pH because bad bacteria can't survive if the environment is acidic, and maintaining a low pH depends on having a high CO2 level, which depends on having good thyroid, good vitamin D, and also on having low iron levels and high copper/zinc levels (but I would be careful about raising copper if you think your estrogen levels are high). Bacteria can't survive without iron, and copper is anti-microbial.

    Aside from just supplementing more thyroid and vitamin D, eating less fat and increasing the ratio of protein to carbs (especially casein) can stimulate thyroid, increasing the ratio of calcium to phosphate can support the effects of vitamin D, donating blood a few times can quickly lower iron stores, and I think drinking more OJ as opposed to eating other carbs can help to detox endotoxin, and coffee and red light/sunlight can both stimulate metabolism and detox endotoxin. Aspirin might also help with endotoxin and raising metabolism but it might cause even more weight gain in the short run by lowering fat oxidation.

    Hope that helps man.
     
  5. Nicole W.

    Nicole W. Member

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    Hang in there, Vinny. The story is not over yet! It is feels insurmountable at times, I know,...but I think everything will be okay. Everything changes, nothing stays the same, so this horrible time is transient. Just remember that. At the very minimum, through these trials and experiments, you are learning what doesn’t work. Which will eventually help you discover what DOES work.. That’s the point, right? Isn’t that what we are all doing here?
    First, how do you feel energy-wise? It sounds like there were many years of damaging habits. Do you have reasonably good energy now, would you say? Setting the weight issue aside for a moment, what benefits have you seen since changing your diet? Are you generally calm, reasonably happy, with good energy levels? If so, those are major victories that were likely hard won. I think the healing process typically is not linear, but if you can focus on the positives and build on them incrementally you will feel less defeated.
    I can really relate to your frustration, I too have gained weight since trying to “fix” myself. One thing I am currently trying is to walk twice as much as I generally do. That means that I’m walking 8-10 miles a day. I live in a hilly area so it’s good workout. I’m not speed walking, just walking a lot. I think walking is the most fundamental thing you can do for health outside of diet and there is a lot of research showing that walking affects so many systems in the body, especially blood sugar and the microbiome. I am looking a little better, clothes are fitting a little looser.
    Do you move much? Everyone seems to focus on the benefits of weight lifting here. But walking, among other things, is MOOD lifting and has many other benefits. There are many testimonials of people who lost massive amounts of weight just by walking everyday. They tend to improve other health parameters as well. I know suggesting walking might sound trite, but people in the healthiest countries walk A LOT. There must be something to it. Everyone in the world is chasing the latest thing to improve health, be thinner, be more beautiful ...but usually the mundane, tried and true approaches are the most effective. Try integrating more walking into your day...What do you have to lose at this point?
     
  6. S-VV

    S-VV Member

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    The stereotypical ray peat diet can have very low satiation, due to the high ratio of calories/mass (aka energy density). So even if you eat to satiety as before, you may be consuming more calories. Use MyFitnessPal or chronometer to track calories and macros for a few days.

    In parallel, ray has never been a proponent of gross caloric excess to “heal metabolism”. He has stated several times that a better process of oxidative phosphorylation will mean less calories are needed.

    if your (hs)CRP, lymphocyte count, or other inflammatory markers aren’t high, I wouldn’t suspect endotoxin. That doesn’t mean that the microbiome can’t be causative, for example by producing more propionate and less butyrate.

    Some other questions to ponder:
    - How long is your feeding window?
    - How is your circadian rhythm?
     
  7. RWilly

    RWilly Member

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    Can you share what foods you eat in a typical day and what supplements you are currently taking?
     
  8. OP
    Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    Thank you, Hans.

    For my gut, tried Doxyciclyine, which completely eradicated my acne (meaning it is caused by bacteria) but it gave me a brutal pebble stool, that's why I discontinued it.
    Would like very much to try other antibiotics, but afraid from the pebble effect (it was horrible) and, Doxy is the only one I can get without prescription i Cyprus.
    If I knew, however, which precisely antibiotic wouldn't mess me up, I,d order it from abroad/online, but Am clueless.
    Unfortunately also, most of the simple, natural antibiotics, like garlic for ex., screw my pancreas/digestion big time. Can't tolerate hot, spicey, bitter, sour etc., which leaves me with very few options.
    Tried Bulgarian propolis, still take some, it doesn't look it does something, but it,s not harmful at least.
    Tried several times short dry fasts. Very tempted to go further that direction. It seems thou, my liver gets annoyed after about 24h restriction and starts to hurt. I,ll try to build up slowly, loading on taurine meanwhile, aiming to increase its glycogen capacity, so,d eventually last more days on dry fast.

    Diet:
    Excluded milk/dairy, not tolerating them well, plus I,ve always hated milk,s taste and smell.
    Pretty much, ended up with muscle meat (beef chunks mainly, some pork), fruits, fruit juices with added sugar and starch in the form of white rice/potatoes.
    Will cut, thou, the added sugar and the starch. It looks like the first makes me fat, the second makes my acne worse. So, basically, it,s going to be meat, fruits and some energy drink here and there, for some time ....
    Fat is what comes from the meat ....

    As I hinted in my 1st post, never been a good responder to supplements.
    Currently taking:
    1 gr aspirin, but will probably cut it, it doesn't look it helped in any way
    Big doses vit C, here and there
    Bulgarian propolis
    Several hundred micrograms of Methylene Blue. Gonna increase this one.
    Trying to add some Ceylon cinnamon

    Sorry, I should have put all these details in the 1st post, but was too emotional and impatient to finish ....
     
  9. OP
    Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    Tnank you, Nicole.

    Energy-wise, I fee like crapp. It,s been like this for about 5 years already.

    Walking is the only exercise Am able to do, and I go outside for as long and as often as I can.
    Sadly, no positive effect for my weight from it whatsoever, but it,s pleasant, I always enjoy it, and it probably keeps me from losing muscles too much.

    I had some success changing my diet indeed. Blood pressure is under control, hemorrhoids gone, jock itch gone ..... But piling fat so steadily is something I can't mentally stand anymore ....
     
  10. Hans

    Hans Member

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    I won't say that it would be necessary to cut the potato if it's not gut irritating. I experience a major difference when I peel my potatoes. I used to have chronic sinus and unsatisfactory bowel movements when I ate the potato whole, but then my sinus cleared up and bowel movements improved considerable just from peeling the potatoes.

    Furthermore, I'd stay away from any fruit juice or white rice. It's not very filling and if the juice is store bought, always contains harmful additives. Eat only whole fruits of all kinds.
    Then preferably eat only locally grown food that you can buy fresh. It can be all kinds of tubers and fruits, whatever is available for that season, as long as you gut is ok with it ofc.

    Lastly, eat about 3-4 meals per day consisting of a good amount of protein (mostly beef chunk in your case) and then have a few tubers and whole fruits with each meal.
    Have you tried goats milk before? Maybe that can be a milk alternative, but I reckon that if you have the smell and taste of cow milk then you might very likely despise goats milk. :)
     
  11. postman

    postman Member

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    Aspirin cured some of my digestive problems, it cured my hypersensitivity to sour/acidic foods in particular. So I assume it killed something nasty in my gut. Took it for a couple of months. It actually helped me digest gluten as well. But I had to stop taking it because of side-effects. The gluten sensitivity came back but the hypersensitivity to sour/acidic food didn't come back.

    I don't know a lot about methylene blue but you should be aware of the fact that it exerts MAOI-A effect if you take more than a small microdose.
     
  12. OP
    Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    Ok, thanks, I appreciate.
    Forgot to mention, that I don't eat wheat/grains either.
    There is goat/sheep milk and cheeses in Cyprus, from local animals, but, of course, all is pasturised/homogenized (European laws). Thought to go in the lands and try to contact a local Sheppard to get some raw milk, but even if it worked once or twice, which is doubtful, might not work consistently. So, might try some store bought a bit and see the effect, to get some calcium at least....

    What to do with the aspirin, Hans? Go on, or cut it? Aspirin is still a mystery for me ....
     
  13. OP
    Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    Thank you, interesting about aspirin ....

    Am sorry, but Am not aware what does follow from MB exerting MAOI-A effect ....
     
  14. OP
    Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    Thank you, s-vv,

    As I stated, I really doubt my cal intake is gross, most probably it,s the opposite, but, tbh, haven't measured it precisely. Plus, it,s quite far away from what can be called a peat diet.

    My feeding window is about several hours apart.

    My circadians are completely screwed, but it,s been like this LONG before my fat gain started, so, as bad as it is, can't make connection here.
     
  15. Lizb

    Lizb Member

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    I got really fed up with all this a couple of years ago. Threw all my toys out the pram as it were, and apart from not eating pufa, just started to enjoy my food. Cut back drastically on the cheese (yeah I discovered cheese really isn't addictive!) - now just cottage cheese, converted to 1% milk (found one that tasted great), and stopped eating ice cream. My weight dropped and have maintained a weight I am happy with since.

    Maybe walk more often but for a shorter time. 15 minutes three or four times a day. If you sit down, sit on the floor as getting up uses more energy and is good to make muscles work that don't otherwise get used.

    Move most of the day if you can. Movement is better than exercise in most cases.

    I gave up worrying about sleep. I still don't get enough but can say that the lack of worry makes the night time a pleasant calming experience.

    Stop breathing through your mouth if you are. No chest breathing, just abdominal breathing.

    I have read your post but not others, therefore my comments may not be appropriate for you.

    Basically I got cross with getting fat so made some changes.

    I did feel quite good when I was putting in too much weight, but quite honestly my life was dominated by food and it was not pleasurable.

    I hope that some of what is written in the thread you have started helps you. Remember Dr Peat says enjoyment of food is more important than anything - it may not be!, but worth remembering that statement sometimes.

    Bless you and I look forward to seeing some progress on your way to feeling better in every way.

    No need to reply to my contribution.
     
  16. OP
    Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    Done, in response to Hans. Thanks
     
  17. OP
    Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    Thanks, bless you too!
     
  18. OP
    Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    Thank you, lampofred.

    I don't think my estrogen is high, so adding copper means eating liver, correct?
     
  19. postman

    postman Member

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    Monoamine oxidase A inhibitors inhibit the breakdown of serotonin, so at higher doses methylene blue will raise serotonin, I'm not sure where the threshold level is though
     
  20. nikotrope

    nikotrope Member

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    I have been in the same situation as you and weight-wise I still am. It's a pretty horrible feeling when you think that eating pizza and burgers every day didn't make you fatter than drinking fruit juice and milk. At the same time, I used to catch colds all the time and have now been free of those for 3 years so I guess what the body is doing is a good thing in a way.

    Organic whole fruits have had the best effect on my gut, energy, and mood. But only if the gut doesn't get irritated by other foods.

    I've been able to lose some weight with a low-fat diet of potatoes, whole fruits, and meat. White rice, fruit juice, and dairy always messed that up. But my gut started to be too irritated by potatoes and I had to stop. Now it seems it got better and I will be trying it again as long as potatoes are peeled, cooked a long time, not fried – the usual on this forum.
     
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