5α-DHP - Liquid 5α-Dihydroprogesterone For Lab/R&D

[TubZy]

Lower dose pregnenolone may raise DHEA, which would synergize nicely with 5a-DHP. I think adding some pregnenolone and/or DHEA may be synergistic. The studies I have seen showed the bets effect from combining a 5-AR (non-aromatizable) steroid like DHT or 5a-DHP with a non-saturated one (aromatizable) like DHEA and T. Peat has also recommended people add DHEA to any steroid they asked him about. Often he gets questions about T /DHT supplementation and aside from recommending a lower dose than most people are used to hearing from their doctors, he almost always mentions adding DHEA and/or pregnenolone to the mix. Pregnenolone may even potentiate the effects of 5a-DHP and any androgens that it gets converted to. The original thread on Pansterone has a study from Hans Selye that said the same thing - pregnenolone can partially substitute for any steroid and can potentiate the effects of any steroid it is used with while also protecting from their side effects. So, maybe 10mg pregnenolone with each dose of 5a-DHP would be something interesting to try. Or 5mg DHEA with every dose of 5a-DHP. Or just a dose of Pansterone with the dose of 5a-DHP.

Makes sense. Thanks!

 

[tiredcoopsies]

This suggests that it is the 5-AR metabolites of progesterone such as 5α-DHP and allopregnanolone that are primarily responsible for the benefits of progesterone in all these conditions. Reductions in brain allopregnanolone are widely recognized as the single most important factor in mental health (especially depression, suicide, and the infamous "brain fog").

I suffer heavily from the mental sides of post finasteride syndrome. It feels like I'm in a permanent, extreme benzo withdrawal. Barely can function. Cognitive fog, derealization, insomnia, skin and hair thinning. I just ordered the 5a-DHP.

I was wondering if you have considered creating a formula for 5a-DHDOC (5α-Dihydrodeoxycorticosterone), that is a 5ar metabolite of deoxycorticosterone? 5a-DHDOC can be reduced to 5a-THDOC by 3a-HSD and is then a positive allosteric modulator or GABA-A receptors just like Allopregnanolone.

Would this be feasible?

 

[haidut]

I suffer heavily from the mental sides of post finasteride syndrome. It feels like I'm in a permanent, extreme benzo withdrawal. Barely can function. Cognitive fog, derealization, insomnia, skin and hair thinning. I just ordered the 5a-DHP.

I was wondering if you have considered creating a formula for 5a-DHDOC (5α-Dihydrodeoxycorticosterone), that is a 5ar metabolite of deoxycorticosterone? 5a-DHDOC can be reduced to 5a-THDOC by 3a-HSD and is then a positive allosteric modulator or GABA-A receptors just like Allopregnanolone.

Would this be feasible?

It would be feasible but I think that if GABA-A agonism is your main goal there are plenty of other substances that are just as potent and also OTC. Aside from progesterone, which is a potent GABA-A agonist, the amino acids theanine and taurine are also very good at GABA agonism. Some androgens like androsterone and its metabolites are also pretty good as GABA agonists. I am wary of the 5-AR glucocorticoids as there is some evidence that despite being weaker glucocorticoid agonists than cortisol, they are still capable of doing it and thus causing metabolic issues. But I will look into it.
Oh, one last thing - pregnenolone in the lower doses that you use it a GABA agonist as well. Only the higher doses may cause some insomnia and agitation as a big pregnenolone dose gets converted into pregnenolone sulfate (PS) and the PS is antagonist at GABA. So, you should probably keep the physiological doses pregnenolone and maybe try some theanine with them. Even 200mg theanine seems to have potent GABA-ergic effects.

 

[Blossom]

I couldn't resist trying 5a-dhp on my rat even though haidut and I both agreed it probably wasn't the best idea since I recently resolved a large breast fibroadenoma in the same female rat using tyronene.

My rat was administered 5a-dhp with 5 drops orally once daily for three days. This is absolutely the best substance my rat has used for mental benefits. It made her very relaxed, sharp, focused and calm. Her brain works better than it has in years. Her breasts started getting sore within an hour or so of taking it though.
I do wonder if there is something unique/different about my rat since she started having the same experience recently with progesterone.

I may just reserve it for use for the occasional extreme stress situation like some would use xanax.

 

[haidut]

I couldn't resist trying 5a-dhp on my rat even though haidut and I both agreed it probably wasn't the best idea since I recently resolved a large breast fibroadenoma in the same female rat using tyronene.

My rat was administered 5a-dhp with 5 drops orally once daily for three days. This is absolutely the best substance my rat has used for mental benefits. It made her very relaxed, sharp, focused and calm. Her brain works better than it has in years. Her breasts started getting sore within an hour or so of taking it though.
I do wonder if there is something unique/different about my rat since she started having the same experience recently with progesterone.

I may just reserve it for use for the occasional extreme stress situation like some would use xanax.

Thanks Blossom! I much appreciate the honest feedback.

 

[tiredcoopsies]

It would be feasible but I think that if GABA-A agonism is your main goal there are plenty of other substances that are just as potent and also OTC.

Thanks, haidut. Well GABA-A agonism isn't really my main goal per se. I just want to put things back they way they were in the brain. I haven't tried any GABA agonists yet. But you guys are saying that 5a-DHP has a positive feedback loop so I have to try it. It's awesome that you have made it available. I'm trying not to get too excited but I hope it helps.

I then was thinking hey it would only be half of what's missing.

That being said the studies have only explicitly shown low Allo and DHP, they haven't tested 5a-THDOC or 5a-DHDOC in humans or rats.

And thanks for the tip on pregnenolone at lower doses. I haven't tried preg ever. 5a-DHP will be the first thing I'm trying since crashing.

If there was enough PFS researchers who wanted test 5a-DHDOC on rats would you make it anyway despite the issues you mentioned?

 

[tiredcoopsies]

I haven't tried preg ever. 5a-DHP will be the first thing I'm trying since crashing.

Wait that's not quite true. I've tried progesterone at various dosages with basically no effect. Leading me to think it's not being 5ar reduced.

 

[haidut]

Thanks, haidut. Well GABA-A agonism isn't really my main goal per se. I just want to put things back they way they were in the brain. I haven't tried any GABA agonists yet. But you guys are saying that 5a-DHP has a positive feedback loop so I have to try it. It's awesome that you have made it available. I'm trying not to get too excited but I hope it helps.

I then was thinking hey it would only be half of what's missing.

That being said the studies have only explicitly shown low Allo and DHP, they haven't tested 5a-THDOC or 5a-DHDOC in humans or rats.

And thanks for the tip on pregnenolone at lower doses. I haven't tried preg ever. 5a-DHP will be the first thing I'm trying since crashing.

If there was enough PFS researchers who wanted test 5a-DHDOC on rats would you make it anyway despite the issues you mentioned?

Sure, I already checked and it is available from our suppliers. But I think the 5a-DHP should work. Either that or androsterone. A few people in the androsterone thread reported great results on rat experiments. You may want to check it out. Also, I think some people posted sporadic experiment results elsewhere on the forum, so if you search for "androsterone pfs" or "androsterone finasteride" it should find those posts for you.

 

[aarfai]

I suffer heavily from the mental sides of post finasteride syndrome. It feels like I'm in a permanent, extreme benzo withdrawal. Barely can function. Cognitive fog, derealization, insomnia, skin and hair thinning. I just ordered the 5a-DHP.

I was wondering if you have considered creating a formula for 5a-DHDOC (5α-Dihydrodeoxycorticosterone), that is a 5ar metabolite of deoxycorticosterone? 5a-DHDOC can be reduced to 5a-THDOC by 3a-HSD and is then a positive allosteric modulator or GABA-A receptors just like Allopregnanolone.

Would this be feasible?

I think 5a-DHDOC would awesome to experiment with especially for PFS users

 

[TubZy]

Thanks, haidut. Well GABA-A agonism isn't really my main goal per se. I just want to put things back they way they were in the brain. I haven't tried any GABA agonists yet. But you guys are saying that 5a-DHP has a positive feedback loop so I have to try it. It's awesome that you have made it available. I'm trying not to get too excited but I hope it helps.

I then was thinking hey it would only be half of what's missing.

That being said the studies have only explicitly shown low Allo and DHP, they haven't tested 5a-THDOC or 5a-DHDOC in humans or rats.

And thanks for the tip on pregnenolone at lower doses. I haven't tried preg ever. 5a-DHP will be the first thing I'm trying since crashing.

If there was enough PFS researchers who wanted test 5a-DHDOC on rats would you make it anyway despite the issues you mentioned?

Have you also tried 100mg of oral preg and 5mg of DHEA? I was on that before 5a-DHP and was getting pretty good results but still wasn't there mentally yet. 5a-DHP seems to really restore mental function. I have not added preg and dhea back in yet since starting 5a-DHP yet though.

I would be interested to try 5a-DHDOC too just to see, but I'll be honest I'm not really sure what kind of effects to expect.

I really like 5a-DHP.

 

[tiredcoopsies]

Have you also tried 100mg of oral preg and 5mg of DHEA? I was on that before 5a-DHP and was getting pretty good results but still wasn't there mentally yet. 5a-DHP seems to really restore mental function. I have not added preg and dhea back in yet since starting 5a-DHP yet though.

I would be interested to try 5a-DHDOC too just to see, but I'll be honest I'm not really sure what kind of effects to expect.

I really like 5a-DHP.

I haven't tried preg and DHEA yet. Yeah I'll see what happens with 5a-DHP first. It comes Tuesday. I'm remaining cautiously optimistic. I'm really glad you posted about it on solvepfs.

After more of us have tried 5a-DHP we should decide from there if we think we need to try 5a-DHDOC. Yeah who knows what would happen (all of this is risky) but I would imagine that we have problems with that neurosteroid too right?

I wonder how problems with the 5ar reduction of deoxycorticosterone affects cortisol in us? Because we're all over the place, high cort, low cort.

 

[TubZy]

I haven't tried preg and DHEA yet. Yeah I'll see what happens with 5a-DHP first. It comes Tuesday. I'm remaining cautiously optimistic. I'm really glad you posted about it on solvepfs.

After more of us have tried 5a-DHP we should decide from there if we think we need to try 5a-DHDOC. Yeah who knows what would happen (all of this is risky) but I would imagine that we have problems with that neurosteroid too right?

I wonder how problems with the 5ar reduction of deoxycorticosterone affects cortisol in us? Because we're all over the place, high cort, low cort.

Sure man. Keep us posted.

I just took my 5a-DHP about 20 min ago and I feel the upcoming prominent effects again right now, sweet. Another thing I wanted to note is my body temps seem to stabilize, I'm always warm now, used to fluctuate all the time.

Well, I'm going to stop updating for now so I don't clutter this thread any further.

 

[goodandevil]

I couldn't resist trying 5a-dhp on my rat even though haidut and I both agreed it probably wasn't the best idea since I recently resolved a large breast fibroadenoma in the same female rat using tyronene.

My rat was administered 5a-dhp with 5 drops orally once daily for three days. This is absolutely the best substance my rat has used for mental benefits. It made her very relaxed, sharp, focused and calm. Her brain works better than it has in years. Her breasts started getting sore within an hour or so of taking it though.
I do wonder if there is something unique/different about my rat since she started having the same experience recently with progesterone.

I may just reserve it for use for the occasional extreme stress situation like some would use xanax.

Don't know if this applies to you @Blossom:

"So I think the symptoms of increased estrogen and cortisol are the result of either extraneous ingredients in the creams, or from using it at the wrong time, for example, too early, triggering premature ovulation. Supplementing a small amount of T3, Cytomel or Cynomel, usually stops symptoms such as breast pain, irritability, and restless energy, in less than an hour. " (ray from peatarian email exchanges on progesterone side effects).

 

[encerent]

To immediately calm down from a stressful situation or go to sleep fast, should men use this or progesterone?

 

[Blossom]

Don't know if this applies to you @Blossom:

"So I think the symptoms of increased estrogen and cortisol are the result of either extraneous ingredients in the creams, or from using it at the wrong time, for example, too early, triggering premature ovulation. Supplementing a small amount of T3, Cytomel or Cynomel, usually stops symptoms such as breast pain, irritability, and restless energy, in less than an hour. " (ray from peatarian email exchanges on progesterone side effects).

Thanks @goodandevil. I emailed Ray about the progesterone breast pain issue and put his response in the email depository.

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Ironically I had just lately intuitively upped my vitamin D and added T4 to the T3 I was already taking so hopefully that will solve my issue.

 

[haidut]

To immediately calm down from a stressful situation or go to sleep fast, should men use this or progesterone?

I'd personally try one of the following 3 to see which works best (in this order): lower dose pregnenolone (10mg - 30mg), progesterone (10mg), 5a-DHP (5mg - 6mg).

 

[mayweatherking]

That's one of the studies Ray provided. The dose used in the in vitro and in vivo studies that caused increased cell proliferation was much higher (i.e. HED 40mg+ caused very little change, and 100mg increased cell proliferation) than what the product will provide. However, since there are no studies on whether low doses would cause the same issues, I suspect people will be wary of using it even though the benefits for prolactin and estrogen are pronounced even at 5mg-6mg daily.

Any idea for the mechanism of how its being convered to estrogen?

 

[haidut]

Any idea for the mechanism of how its being convered to estrogen?

It is not being converted to estrogen. Steroids that are 5-AR derived like DHT, androsterone and 5a-DHP cannot convert to estrogen and actually strongly inhibit estrogen. The mechanism behind increased proliferation is through activation of MAPK but it was only visible in HED of 30mg+ as a single dose. I am not aware of any studies showing that 5mg -6mg doses, which still strongly oppose estrogen and prolactin, increase breast cell proliferation.

 

[encerent]

I'd personally try one of the following 3 to see which works best (in this order): lower dose pregnenolone (10mg - 30mg), progesterone (10mg), 5a-DHP (5mg - 6mg).

Thanks. Trying to get away from benzodiazepins

 

[Kennya]

Got my 5a-dhp today. Trying 5-6 mg before bed tonight...