Fixing Finasteride. Pregnenolone & Dhea To Increase Allopreg. What About Increasing Bile Acids?

[mayweatherking]

I'm trying to fix the problems finasteride causes. I think the allopregnonolone could be fixed via taking pregnenolone and DHEA together:

Allopregnanolone elevations following pregnenolone administration are associated with enhanced activation of emotion regulation neurocircuits.
BACKGROUND:
The neurosteroid allopregnanolone is a potent allosteric modulator of the gamma-aminobutyric acid type A receptor with anxiolytic properties. Exogenous administration of allopregnanolone reduces anxiety, and allopregnanolone blockade impairs social and affective functioning. However, the neural mechanism whereby allopregnanolone improves mood and reduces anxiety is unknown. In particular, brain imaging has not been used to link neurosteroid effects to emotion regulation neurocircuitry.

METHODS:
To investigate the brain basis of allopregnanolone's impact on emotion regulation, participants were administered 400 mg of pregnenolone (n=16) or placebo (n=15) and underwent 3T functional magnetic resonance imaging while performing the shifted-attention emotion appraisal task, which probes emotional processing and regulation.

RESULTS:
Compared with placebo, allopregnanolone was associated with reduced activity in the amygdala and insula across all conditions. During the appraisal condition, allopregnanolone increased activity in the dorsal medial prefrontal cortex and enhanced connectivity between the amygdala and dorsal medial prefrontal cortex, an effect that was associated with reduced self-reported anxiety.

CONCLUSIONS:
These results demonstrate that in response to emotional stimuli, allopregnanolone reduces activity in regions associated with generation of negative emotion. Furthermore, allopregnanolone may enhance activity in regions linked to regulatory processes. Aberrant activity in these regions has been linked to anxiety psychopathology. These results thus provide initial neuroimaging evidence that allopregnanolone may be a target for pharmacologic intervention in the treatment of anxiety disorders and suggest potential future directions for research into neurosteroid effects on emotion regulation neurocircuitry.




So allopregegnelone is increased via taking pregnenolone. I can say I feel way better after taking it with DHEA. I was going to take progesterone as well, but then I saw progesterone inhibits 5AR2 as well.. I think it would be a bad idea, but I'm not sure yet.

5AR inhibitors also inhibit bile acid synthesis:

5α-reductases, also known as 3-oxo-5α-steroid 4-dehydrogenases, are enzymes involved in steroid metabolism. They participate in 3 metabolic pathways: bile acid biosynthesis, androgen and estrogen metabolism, and prostate cancer. There are three isoenzymes of 5-alpha reductase, which vary in different tissues with age.



Can anyone else think of other ways I can get those pathways working again? I think my 5AR2 has been impaired via finasteride or destroyed or something, I'm not sure. But Bile acid I think a lot of coffee has made it work again due to my stool being brown after drinking coffee a lot. But I still think I can't digest protein properly...... I need more of it or something, I don't know.

I'm not sure how to make androgens again though......... I wonder if the pregnenolone over time will increase it along with thyroid and prolactin/PTH being more normal...... any thoughts?

I feel really messed up.. I would like to fix this.

 

[sladerunner69]

High dose fat soluble vitamins, niacinimide, with an orange juice/milk/eggs/oysters/liver/mushrooms/gelatin diet

lots of red light therapy completely naked, lots of sleep, minimize stressful situations

And weight training, heavy weights, once every five days or so. This will actually increase your androgenic sensitivity and androgen production, there have been studies on this.

If you have your diet, lifestyle, and excercise program dialed in, all you really need is time. Months and months, maybe years. In time you will heal and everything will improve, and you will be in a better state then you were before you crashed. But you need to be a diehard and stick with your program above all else.

 

[Dante]

High dose fat soluble vitamins, niacinimide, with an orange juice/milk/eggs/oysters/liver/mushrooms/gelatin diet

lots of red light therapy completely naked, lots of sleep, minimize stressful situations

And weight training, heavy weights, once every five days or so. This will actually increase your androgenic sensitivity and androgen production, there have been studies on this.

If you have your diet, lifestyle, and excercise program dialed in, all you really need is time. Months and months, maybe years. In time you will heal and everything will improve, and you will be in a better state then you were before you crashed. But you need to be a diehard and stick with your program above all else.

bro, you talked about positive mindset and someone meditating the s**t out of pfs in on eof your posts . Could you provide more of that story if you know ?

 

[haidut]

I'm trying to fix the problems finasteride causes. I think the allopregnonolone could be fixed via taking pregnenolone and DHEA together:

Allopregnanolone elevations following pregnenolone administration are associated with enhanced activation of emotion regulation neurocircuits.
BACKGROUND:
The neurosteroid allopregnanolone is a potent allosteric modulator of the gamma-aminobutyric acid type A receptor with anxiolytic properties. Exogenous administration of allopregnanolone reduces anxiety, and allopregnanolone blockade impairs social and affective functioning. However, the neural mechanism whereby allopregnanolone improves mood and reduces anxiety is unknown. In particular, brain imaging has not been used to link neurosteroid effects to emotion regulation neurocircuitry.

METHODS:
To investigate the brain basis of allopregnanolone's impact on emotion regulation, participants were administered 400 mg of pregnenolone (n=16) or placebo (n=15) and underwent 3T functional magnetic resonance imaging while performing the shifted-attention emotion appraisal task, which probes emotional processing and regulation.

RESULTS:
Compared with placebo, allopregnanolone was associated with reduced activity in the amygdala and insula across all conditions. During the appraisal condition, allopregnanolone increased activity in the dorsal medial prefrontal cortex and enhanced connectivity between the amygdala and dorsal medial prefrontal cortex, an effect that was associated with reduced self-reported anxiety.

CONCLUSIONS:
These results demonstrate that in response to emotional stimuli, allopregnanolone reduces activity in regions associated with generation of negative emotion. Furthermore, allopregnanolone may enhance activity in regions linked to regulatory processes. Aberrant activity in these regions has been linked to anxiety psychopathology. These results thus provide initial neuroimaging evidence that allopregnanolone may be a target for pharmacologic intervention in the treatment of anxiety disorders and suggest potential future directions for research into neurosteroid effects on emotion regulation neurocircuitry.




So allopregegnelone is increased via taking pregnenolone. I can say I feel way better after taking it with DHEA. I was going to take progesterone as well, but then I saw progesterone inhibits 5AR2 as well.. I think it would be a bad idea, but I'm not sure yet.

5AR inhibitors also inhibit bile acid synthesis:

5α-reductases, also known as 3-oxo-5α-steroid 4-dehydrogenases, are enzymes involved in steroid metabolism. They participate in 3 metabolic pathways: bile acid biosynthesis, androgen and estrogen metabolism, and prostate cancer. There are three isoenzymes of 5-alpha reductase, which vary in different tissues with age.



Can anyone else think of other ways I can get those pathways working again? I think my 5AR2 has been impaired via finasteride or destroyed or something, I'm not sure. But Bile acid I think a lot of coffee has made it work again due to my stool being brown after drinking coffee a lot. But I still think I can't digest protein properly...... I need more of it or something, I don't know.

I'm not sure how to make androgens again though......... I wonder if the pregnenolone over time will increase it along with thyroid and prolactin/PTH being more normal...... any thoughts?

I feel really messed up.. I would like to fix this.

Progesterone does NOT inhibit 5-AR in vivo. Low dose progesterone is used as a reliable pro-drug for raising allopregnanolone levels and if progesterone was inhibiting 5-AR it would not have raised allopregnanolone. Look up the Wiki page on allopregnanolone for more info.
Also, form the Wikipedia page on 5-AR is the following interesting excerpt:
5-alpha reductase - Wikipedia
"...Inhibition of the enzyme can be classified into two categories: steroidal, which are irreversible, and nonsteroidal. There are more steroidal inhibitors, with examples including finasteride (MK-906), dutasteride (GG745), 4-MA, turosteride, MK-386, MK-434, and MK-963. Researchers have pursued synthesis of nonsteroidals to inhibit 5α-reductase due to the undesired side effects of steroidals. The most potent and selective inhibitors of 5α-R1 are found in this class, and include benzoquinolones, nonsteroidal aryl acids, butanoid acid derivatives, and more recognizably, polyunsaturated fatty acids (especially linolenic acid), zinc, and green tea.[8] Riboflavin was also identified as a 5α-reductase inhibitor .[14]"

So, in case anybody is still doubting how poisonous PUFA is, just refer to the above quote.
The page has a lot of info on inhibitors but not much on enhancers of 5-AR. It would have been nice to have info on both. Some of the tings that promote 5-AR activity include DHEA, saturated fat, glycine, taurine, thyroid, etc. You can search the forum for each of these substances and 5-AR.

 

[Dante]

Progesterone does NOT inhibit 5-AR in vivo. Low dose progesterone is used as a reliable pro-drug for raising allopregnanolone levels and if progesterone was inhibiting 5-AR it would not have raised allopregnanolone. Look up the Wiki page on allopregnanolone for more info.
Also, form the Wikipedia page on 5-AR is the following interesting excerpt:
5-alpha reductase - Wikipedia
"...Inhibition of the enzyme can be classified into two categories: steroidal, which are irreversible, and nonsteroidal. There are more steroidal inhibitors, with examples including finasteride (MK-906), dutasteride (GG745), 4-MA, turosteride, MK-386, MK-434, and MK-963. Researchers have pursued synthesis of nonsteroidals to inhibit 5α-reductase due to the undesired side effects of steroidals. The most potent and selective inhibitors of 5α-R1 are found in this class, and include benzoquinolones, nonsteroidal aryl acids, butanoid acid derivatives, and more recognizably, polyunsaturated fatty acids (especially linolenic acid), zinc, and green tea.[8] Riboflavin was also identified as a 5α-reductase inhibitor .[14]"

So, in case anybody is still doubting how poisonous PUFA is, just refer to the above quote.
The page has a lot of info on inhibitors but not much on enhancers of 5-AR. It would have been nice to have info on both. Some of the tings that promote 5-AR activity include DHEA, saturated fat, glycine, taurine, thyroid, etc. You can search the forum for each of these substances and 5-AR.

@haidut , doesn't zinc upregulate 5-AR at RDA levels(11-15 mg) as seen in some studies? Personally, glycine caused depressive, depersonalization and dementia like stuff in me.

 

[mayweatherking]

High dose fat soluble vitamins, niacinimide, with an orange juice/milk/eggs/oysters/liver/mushrooms/gelatin diet

lots of red light therapy completely naked, lots of sleep, minimize stressful situations

And weight training, heavy weights, once every five days or so. This will actually increase your androgenic sensitivity and androgen production, there have been studies on this.

If you have your diet, lifestyle, and excercise program dialed in, all you really need is time. Months and months, maybe years. In time you will heal and everything will improve, and you will be in a better state then you were before you crashed. But you need to be a diehard and stick with your program above all else.

bro, you have PFS too... thanks for the tips man, but dont you have the loss of libido too?

Progesterone does NOT inhibit 5-AR in vivo. Low dose progesterone is used as a reliable pro-drug for raising allopregnanolone levels and if progesterone was inhibiting 5-AR it would not have raised allopregnanolone. Look up the Wiki page on allopregnanolone for more info.
Also, form the Wikipedia page on 5-AR is the following interesting excerpt:
5-alpha reductase - Wikipedia
"...Inhibition of the enzyme can be classified into two categories: steroidal, which are irreversible, and nonsteroidal. There are more steroidal inhibitors, with examples including finasteride (MK-906), dutasteride (GG745), 4-MA, turosteride, MK-386, MK-434, and MK-963. Researchers have pursued synthesis of nonsteroidals to inhibit 5α-reductase due to the undesired side effects of steroidals. The most potent and selective inhibitors of 5α-R1 are found in this class, and include benzoquinolones, nonsteroidal aryl acids, butanoid acid derivatives, and more recognizably, polyunsaturated fatty acids (especially linolenic acid), zinc, and green tea.[8] Riboflavin was also identified as a 5α-reductase inhibitor .[14]"

So, in case anybody is still doubting how poisonous PUFA is, just refer to the above quote.
The page has a lot of info on inhibitors but not much on enhancers of 5-AR. It would have been nice to have info on both. Some of the tings that promote 5-AR activity include DHEA, saturated fat, glycine, taurine, thyroid, etc. You can search the forum for each of these substances and 5-AR.

wow, that's great on the permanent effect thing. anyway, i've had times where my libido came back when my bowel cleared, hopefully if i can just get that fixed, myabe ill be all right. it seems like a lot of people get off finasteride and then they are "ok", so i don't know why i am screwed and others aren't. prety crazy how pufa is a 5ar inhibitor. maybe i just need a lot thyroid.

it's weird... i had absolutely zero libido yesterday, stuck to my diet, i could not get a boner if my life depended on it last night, then i wake up today with morning wood. i've been takin this 400 billion probiotic recommended to me and nystatin, so yeah maybe that will get things going. no idea though at this point. this is out of control for me. lol. i will up the glycine though, i have been slacking there.

 

[sladerunner69]

bro, you have PFS too... thanks for the tips man, but dont you have the loss of libido too?.

Yeah I had loss of libido, depression, brain fog, insomnia, the whole 360 of pfs hell. Everything has vastly improved since I crashed in 2011.

Fat Solubles like b6, niacinimide, vitamin A will help increase steroid production, they give me a stronger libido no doubt.

To get allopregnenenlone I would take haduits advice about progesterone, which is what I thought you were doing in the first place and it was working for you right? Why did you stop doing that? Also I think 5 mg of androsterone per day would increase baseline 5-ar levels.

 

[TubZy]

I'm trying pregnenolone at 100mg, I actually just started/took it 10 minutes ago. Preg should be one of the best for increasing allopreg. So I'll give you an update later today how I feel. I have tried preg a year ago at 50mg it killed my anxiety from fin but made me irritable and angry, restless so I stopped it. But I wasn't taking any cofactors or anti estrogen/cortisol supps with it so all of that preg could be dumping to estrogen/cortisol/serotonin gives me the bad side effects.

That is why I'm curious about this time around with A, D, E , K2, MB, taurine, saturated fats, energin, zinc (15mg), niacinimide, gelatin, androsterone, caffeine. To see how I feel. I know my estrogen/cortisol is on the lower side as I can tell from the feel of my muscles.

For the record, DHEA didn't help too much when I used it, but that could just be me.

 

[Peater Piper]

In terms of bile acids, I assume you've already tried taurine? I don't think it will boost bile acids, but it does improve the quality of the bile. You could also try ox bile, just as a test to see if it improves your digestive symptoms.

 

[TubZy]

This link quotes Peat saying pregnenolone increases and repairs enzyme activity.

http://www.litalee.com/shopexd.asp?ccode=Pregnenolone+-+A+Fruit+Of+Cholesterol

Repair of enzymes: Pregnenolone has the ability to repair enzyme activity. For example, a Russian research study found that adding pregnenolone to a mitochondrial suspension increased enzyme activity. Which enzyme? An enzyme in the P450 system, which converts cholesterol into pregnenolone. Other enzymes in the P450 system vital to certain detoxification processes are also stabilized by pregnenolone. “Pregnenolone doesn’t affect the rate of synthesis of these enzymes, but it stabilizes them against the normal proteolytic enzymes, increasing their activity. I believe this stabilizing action is a general feature of these steroids.”(Peat).

 

[sladerunner69]

I'm trying pregnenolone at 100mg, I actually just started/took it 10 minutes ago. Preg should be one of the best for increasing allopreg. So I'll give you an update later today how I feel. I have tried preg a year ago at 50mg it killed my anxiety from fin but made me irritable and angry, restless so I stopped it. But I wasn't taking any cofactors or anti estrogen/cortisol supps with it so all of that preg could be dumping to estrogen/cortisol/serotonin gives me the bad side effects.

That is why I'm curious about this time around with A, D, E , K2, MB, taurine, saturated fats, energin, zinc (15mg), niacinimide, gelatin, androsterone, caffeine. To see how I feel. I know my estrogen/cortisol is on the lower side as I can tell from the feel of my muscles.

For the record, DHEA didn't help too much when I used it, but that could just be me.

So how was the trial with pregnenelone? Did you eat extra to ensure consistent blood sugar?

 

[TubZy]

So how was the trial with pregnenelone? Did you eat extra to ensure consistent blood sugar?

Yeah I posted yesterday in the other post fin thread- good results, im on it right now

 

[mayweatherking]

Progesterone does NOT inhibit 5-AR in vivo. Low dose progesterone is used as a reliable pro-drug for raising allopregnanolone levels and if progesterone was inhibiting 5-AR it would not have raised allopregnanolone. Look up the Wiki page on allopregnanolone for more info.
Also, form the Wikipedia page on 5-AR is the following interesting excerpt:
5-alpha reductase - Wikipedia
"...Inhibition of the enzyme can be classified into two categories: steroidal, which are irreversible, and nonsteroidal. There are more steroidal inhibitors, with examples including finasteride (MK-906), dutasteride (GG745), 4-MA, turosteride, MK-386, MK-434, and MK-963. Researchers have pursued synthesis of nonsteroidals to inhibit 5α-reductase due to the undesired side effects of steroidals. The most potent and selective inhibitors of 5α-R1 are found in this class, and include benzoquinolones, nonsteroidal aryl acids, butanoid acid derivatives, and more recognizably, polyunsaturated fatty acids (especially linolenic acid), zinc, and green tea.[8] Riboflavin was also identified as a 5α-reductase inhibitor .[14]"

So, in case anybody is still doubting how poisonous PUFA is, just refer to the above quote.
The page has a lot of info on inhibitors but not much on enhancers of 5-AR. It would have been nice to have info on both. Some of the tings that promote 5-AR activity include DHEA, saturated fat, glycine, taurine, thyroid, etc. You can search the forum for each of these substances and 5-AR.

Hey man, are you sure about progesterone and 5ar2? How do you think finasteride is inhibiting 5ar2 then? It seems to be very chemically similar to progesterone, it makes sense that it is increasing progesterone levels and that in turn is suppressing that. I have heard Ray in an interview say progesterone suppresses testosterone, albeit temporarily, but it does happen.

 

[sladerunner69]

Hey man, are you sure about progesterone and 5ar2? How do you think finasteride is inhibiting 5ar2 then? It seems to be very chemically similar to progesterone, it makes sense that it is increasing progesterone levels and that in turn is suppressing that. I have heard Ray in an interview say progesterone suppresses testosterone, albeit temporarily, but it does happen.

sure feels like progesterone suppresses testosterone. If I take even one drop of progestene before bed, I wake up feeling tired and groggy. I don't feel like going to work at all and dont care about anything and just prefer to sit around on the computer or watch television. Then I have to take dhea and it helps re motivate and energize me, but a few hours later I feel irritable as dhea usually ends up doing to me. This has happened to me several times now...

I believe that hitting the GABA receptors is important but now I am beginning to see that increasing my androgens and dht is still helpful, at least in my personal case. I need to achieve a balance between 5-ar reduced progestenes and 5ar reduced androgens in order to feel good and motivated and happy to work through the day. I think just a little bit of dhea, 2-5mg orally is helpful, if taken with some caffiene and niacinimide to help support thyroid and maybe some aspirin to help rpevent the conversion to estrogen. However taking too much aspirin, vitamin e, or vitamin k and my estorgen and cortisol drop too low and the testosterone becomes too high and i become irritable and depressed again. I need to maintain some estrogen for decent libido. When I become irritable and my knees begin to hurt and crack, i know that my estrogen is too low. Problem is that with every 325mg aspirin Peat recommends 1mg k2, which is a lot. A 5mg pill of k2 really drops my estrogen considerably, and with a gram or so of aspirin my joints will start hurting and I will not be of a very positive-mind about anything, although I will have a decent amount of energy. It's very complicated but if I rememebr not to go overboard on my supplements and to focus on taking caffiene, niacinimide, gelatin, and taking very small amounts of other things such as 10mg famatodine, 2mg dhea, 5mg b6, 50mg b1, 500mg tyrosine, 100mg theanine, I can feel really good and confident throughout the day.

 

[mayweatherking]

sure feels like progesterone suppresses testosterone. If I take even one drop of progestene before bed, I wake up feeling tired and groggy. I don't feel like going to work at all and dont care about anything and just prefer to sit around on the computer or watch television. Then I have to take dhea and it helps re motivate and energize me, but a few hours later I feel irritable as dhea usually ends up doing to me. This has happened to me several times now...

I believe that hitting the GABA receptors is important but now I am beginning to see that increasing my androgens and dht is still helpful, at least in my personal case. I need to achieve a balance between 5-ar reduced progestenes and 5ar reduced androgens in order to feel good and motivated and happy to work through the day. I think just a little bit of dhea, 2-5mg orally is helpful, if taken with some caffiene and niacinimide to help support thyroid and maybe some aspirin to help rpevent the conversion to estrogen. However taking too much aspirin, vitamin e, or vitamin k and my estorgen and cortisol drop too low and the testosterone becomes too high and i become irritable and depressed again. I need to maintain some estrogen for decent libido. When I become irritable and my knees begin to hurt and crack, i know that my estrogen is too low. Problem is that with every 325mg aspirin Peat recommends 1mg k2, which is a lot. A 5mg pill of k2 really drops my estrogen considerably, and with a gram or so of aspirin my joints will start hurting and I will not be of a very positive-mind about anything, although I will have a decent amount of energy. It's very complicated but if I rememebr not to go overboard on my supplements and to focus on taking caffiene, niacinimide, gelatin, and taking very small amounts of other things such as 10mg famatodine, 2mg dhea, 5mg b6, 50mg b1, 500mg tyrosine, 100mg theanine, I can feel really good and confident throughout the day.

Well it definitely suppresses it, I heard him say it in an interview. I dont think lowering estrogen is the problem, I think you are dealing with a high cortisol release because no protective hormones are being made.

 

[haidut]

Hey man, are you sure about progesterone and 5ar2? How do you think finasteride is inhibiting 5ar2 then? It seems to be very chemically similar to progesterone, it makes sense that it is increasing progesterone levels and that in turn is suppressing that. I have heard Ray in an interview say progesterone suppresses testosterone, albeit temporarily, but it does happen.

What does suppressing testosterone have to do with 5-AR? The 5-AR enzyme if for converting T into DHT, and progesterone is not suppressing it, at least not in physiological doses. I must have posted this at least 10 times. Low dose progesterone is used to reliably raise allopreganolone levels in the brain, and allopregnanolone synthesis depends on 5-AR. If progesterone suppresses 5-AR then it would not raise allopregnanolone levels. Progesterone can be anti-androgenic in higher doses due to competition with T and DHT for the androgen receptor, but progesterone itself is actually an AGONIST of the androgen receptor, albeit much weaker than T/DHT and hence its anti-androgenic effects when competing with T/DHT for binding.

 

[sladerunner69]

What does suppressing testosterone have to do with 5-AR? The 5-AR enzyme if for converting T into DHT, and progesterone is not suppressing it, at least not in physiological doses. I must have posted this at least 10 times. Low dose progesterone is used to reliably raise allopreganolone levels in the brain, and allopregnanolone synthesis depends on 5-AR. If progesterone suppresses 5-AR then it would not raise allopregnanolone levels. Progesterone can be anti-androgenic in higher doses due to competition with T and DHT for the androgen receptor, but progesterone itself is actually an AGONIST of the androgen receptor, albeit much weaker than T/DHT and hence its anti-androgenic effects when competing with T/DHT for binding.

Well after taking progesterone I often experience anti-androgenic symptoms and become lethargic and lose libido... Although my anxiety gets much better and I have a nice relaxed feeling. Could it be that progesterone agonizes 5ar type 1 that is used to make allpregnenlone, but antagonizes 5ar type 1 which creates DHT? Also we have theorized that increasing testosterone lowers 5ar type 1 and lowers allopregnenlone, because raising androgens tend to give me anxiety and many others have felt simililarly about it.

 

[haidut]

Well after taking progesterone I often experience anti-androgenic symptoms and become lethargic and lose libido... Although my anxiety gets much better and I have a nice relaxed feeling. Could it be that progesterone agonizes 5ar type 1 that is used to make allpregnenlone, but antagonizes 5ar type 1 which creates DHT? Also we have theorized that increasing testosterone lowers 5ar type 1 and lowers allopregnenlone, because raising androgens tend to give me anxiety and many others have felt simililarly about it.

T antagonizes StAR, which lowers pregennolone synthesis and thus allopregnanolone. It is a negative feedback mechanism to prevent androgen overload. I have not seen evidence that regular progesterone inhibits any of the 5-AR isoenzymes. As I said above, the anti-androgenic effects usually come from competition with androgens like T and DHT for receptor binding, which has the effect of decreasing androgenic tone.

 

[mayweatherking]

What does suppressing testosterone have to do with 5-AR? The 5-AR enzyme if for converting T into DHT, and progesterone is not suppressing it, at least not in physiological doses. I must have posted this at least 10 times. Low dose progesterone is used to reliably raise allopreganolone levels in the brain, and allopregnanolone synthesis depends on 5-AR. If progesterone suppresses 5-AR then it would not raise allopregnanolone levels. Progesterone can be anti-androgenic in higher doses due to competition with T and DHT for the androgen receptor, but progesterone itself is actually an AGONIST of the androgen receptor, albeit much weaker than T/DHT and hence its anti-androgenic effects when competing with T/DHT for binding.

T antagonizes StAR, which lowers pregennolone synthesis and thus allopregnanolone. It is a negative feedback mechanism to prevent androgen overload. I have not seen evidence that regular progesterone inhibits any of the 5-AR isoenzymes. As I said above, the anti-androgenic effects usually come from competition with androgens like T and DHT for receptor binding, which has the effect of decreasing androgenic tone.

Yes, I read your other reply as well. So if progesterone doesn't inhibit 5ar2, can it be possible that actually finastwride works in a way where it down regulates T and that is what is truly down regulating dht and 5ar2?

I have seen people with pfs, they have high levels of progesterone ainccordijg to blood work in there body and I have seen many report very frequent urination. I'm trying to find the connection here.

If progesterone levels are too high, it will suppress T and estrogen will go up from that? The progesterone isnt leaving the body.

The frequent urination shows the high progesterone levels are pushing water retention and my thought estrogen out, but maybe it just goes down hill once you get off it anf the negative loop starts to spin

I'm going to get my progesterone and estrogen tested because I'm really curious why I have such bad water retention, but pregnenlone seems to be a God send for the issue overall. Progesterone not as much .

It seems like vit E, thyroid give me cortisol rises, I'm assuming I have low or no dht or other protective hormones to offset the estrogen as it decreases.

 

[haidut]

Yes, I read your other reply as well. So if progesterone doesn't inhibit 5ar2, can it be possible that actually finastwride works in a way where it down regulates T and that is what is truly down regulating dht and 5ar2?

I have seen people with pfs, they have high levels of progesterone ainccordijg to blood work in there body and I have seen many report very frequent urination. I'm trying to find the connection here.

If progesterone levels are too high, it will suppress T and estrogen will go up from that? The progesterone isnt leaving the body.

The frequent urination shows the high progesterone levels are pushing water retention and my thought estrogen out, but maybe it just goes down hill once you get off it anf the negative loop starts to spin

I'm going to get my progesterone and estrogen tested because I'm really curious why I have such bad water retention, but pregnenlone seems to be a God send for the issue overall. Progesterone not as much .

It seems like vit E, thyroid give me cortisol rises, I'm assuming I have low or no dht or other protective hormones to offset the estrogen as it decreases.

Finasteride does seem to lower T as well as DHT. See my other post on finasteride causing nerve damage. The high progesterone in PFS patients is probably from the suppressed 5-AR, 3b-HSD and 17-HSD (amont other things). So the progesterone does not metabolize downstream. Oh, and if the 5-AR inhbition was not bad enough - finasteride also raises cortisol and lowers DHEA. Nobody really knows the full damage finasteride causes and the exact pathways it inhibits, but it is now clear that it inhibits a lot more than 5-AR and changes the hormonal profile towards a low androgen, high cortisol, and possible high estrogen as well.