Fixing Finasteride. Pregnenolone & Dhea To Increase Allopreg. What About Increasing Bile Acids?

[mayweatherking]

Finasteride does seem to lower T as well as DHT. See my other post on finasteride causing nerve damage. The high progesterone in PFS patients is probably from the suppressed 5-AR, 3b-HSD and 17-HSD (amont other things). So the progesterone does not metabolize downstream. Oh, and if the 5-AR inhbition was not bad enough - finasteride also raises cortisol and lowers DHEA. Nobody really knows the full damage finasteride causes and the exact pathways it inhibits, but it is now clear that it inhibits a lot more than 5-AR and changes the hormonal profile towards a low androgen, high cortisol, and possible high estrogen as well.

But finasteride is basically progesterone, it is nearly identical, wouldn't that be the mechanism for how it is suppressing 5ar2? I think it makes sense. Even when i took it, my jaw was like razor sharp. It was ridiculous actually. I think i had next to no water retention while on the drug. I think the progesterone completely opposes estrogen just super intensely and foe that reason it will boost your T up, but I think it catches up to you eventually.

If you search propeciahelp, many have very high urination frequency, how would a 5ar2 inhibitor possibly cause increase urination if it wasn't just super saturated progesterone.

Another case doe it is some people who have pfs, some have tried getting back on and they could temporarily return to normal libido. I think the body gets used to the high progesterone

It's really interesting no matter what

 

[haidut]

But finasteride is basically progesterone, it is nearly identical, wouldn't that be the mechanism for how it is suppressing 5ar2? I think it makes sense. Even when i took it, my jaw was like razor sharp. It was ridiculous actually. I think i had next to no water retention while on the drug. I think the progesterone completely opposes estrogen just super intensely and foe that reason it will boost your T up, but I think it catches up to you eventually.

If you search propeciahelp, many have very high urination frequency, how would a 5ar2 inhibitor possibly cause increase urination if it wasn't just super saturated progesterone.

Another case doe it is some people who have pfs, some have tried getting back on and they could temporarily return to normal libido. I think the body gets used to the high progesterone

It's really interesting no matter what

Again, endogenous progesterone in vivo in humans is NOT a signficant 5-AR inhibitor and that is what counts the most.
The effect of endogenous progesterone on serum levels of 5 alpha-reduced androgens in hirsute women. - PubMed - NCBI
"...There was a small fall in DHT in the late luteal phase of the cycle of those women with a sustained rise in serum progesterone in the second half of the cycle, but no change in serum 3 alpha-diol. These studies suggest that serum 3 alpha-diol may not be as good an indicator of peripheral androgen metabolism in hirsute women as previously reported and that a rise in serum progesterone has only a minimal effect on circulating levels of the active 5 alpha-reduced androgen metabolites. Although in vitro 3 alpha-diol has been shown to be a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase this casts doubt on its role in this regard in vivo."

The rumors about progesterone being a potent 5-AR inhibitor all came from in vitro studies. Also, endogenous hormones rarely display isoenzyme specificity, and so far I have seen no evidence that progesterone inhibits one of the 5-AR isoenzymes but leaves the other ones untouched.

 

[mayweatherking]

Again, endogenous progesterone in vivo in humans is NOT a signficant 5-AR inhibitor and that is what counts the most.
The effect of endogenous progesterone on serum levels of 5 alpha-reduced androgens in hirsute women. - PubMed - NCBI
"...There was a small fall in DHT in the late luteal phase of the cycle of those women with a sustained rise in serum progesterone in the second half of the cycle, but no change in serum 3 alpha-diol. These studies suggest that serum 3 alpha-diol may not be as good an indicator of peripheral androgen metabolism in hirsute women as previously reported and that a rise in serum progesterone has only a minimal effect on circulating levels of the active 5 alpha-reduced androgen metabolites. Although in vitro 3 alpha-diol has been shown to be a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase this casts doubt on its role in this regard in vivo."

The rumors about progesterone being a potent 5-AR inhibitor all came from in vitro studies. Also, endogenous hormones rarely display isoenzyme specificity, and so far I have seen no evidence that progesterone inhibits one of the 5-AR isoenzymes but leaves the other ones untouched.

Okay so let's go with progesterone doesn't inhibit 5ar2, then we know it lowers testosterone levels. What do you think someone could do to bring the body's levels back of up testosterone if they have a consistent case of high progesterone?

I'm looking for something to try to go off of with this situation. Like the cortisol response to thyroid and vitamin e could be related to low preg levels?

Is there any thing you can think of, like high progesterone levels lead to a decrease in vitamin A or something since there's no testosterone? Or is there a chart somewhere showing, like how levels of nutrients are decreased based on progesterone or pregnenlone levels?

 

[haidut]

Okay so let's go with progesterone doesn't inhibit 5ar2, then we know it lowers testosterone levels. What do you think someone could do to bring the body's levels back of up testosterone if they have a consistent case of high progesterone?

I'm looking for something to try to go off of with this situation. Like the cortisol response to thyroid and vitamin e could be related to low preg levels?

Is there any thing you can think of, like high progesterone levels lead to a decrease in vitamin A or something since there's no testosterone? Or is there a chart somewhere showing, like how levels of nutrients are decreased based on progesterone or pregnenlone levels?

I don't think natural progesterone lowers T levels. Again, you are making a parallel between finsateride and its effects on enzymes and what progesterone does. Just because finasteride has SOME effects (maybe only 1) in common with progesterone does not mean you can ascribe all of its effects to progesterone as well. Finasteride is pure poison and inhibits quite a few steroidogenic enzymes, in addition to causing nerve damage. In contrast, progesterone is probably the most powerful neuroprotector known, at least among steroids. Natural progesterone is not known to inhibit the enzymes involved in androgen synthesis, quite to the contrary. Since it acts similar to thyroid it stimulates conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone, and also activates 3b-HSD and 17b-HSD both of which are required for T synthesis. It may inhibit 17,20-lyase and thus the conversion of pregnenolone to DHEA but that has only been done in vitro and in very high concentrations. In physiological doses progesterone is likely to lower estrogen and even increase T synthesis. It won't make you look like Hulk but given that it has anabolic effects I highly doubt it negatively affects males in doses of 5mg - 10mg daily.
The Anabolic Effects Of Progesterone

 

[mayweatherking]

I don't think natural progesterone lowers T levels. Again, you are making a parallel between finsateride and its effects on enzymes and what progesterone does. Just because finasteride has SOME effects (maybe only 1) in common with progesterone does not mean you can ascribe all of its effects to progesterone as well. Finasteride is pure poison and inhibits quite a few steroidogenic enzymes, in addition to causing nerve damage. In contrast, progesterone is probably the most powerful neuroprotector known, at least among steroids. Natural progesterone is not known to inhibit the enzymes involved in androgen synthesis, quite to the contrary. Since it acts similar to thyroid it stimulates conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone, and also activates 3b-HSD and 17b-HSD both of which are required for T synthesis. It may inhibit 17,20-lyase and thus the conversion of pregnenolone to DHEA but that has only been done in vitro and in very high concentrations. In physiological doses progesterone is likely to lower estrogen and even increase T synthesis. It won't make you look like Hulk but given that it has anabolic effects I highly doubt it negatively affects males in doses of 5mg - 10mg daily.
The Anabolic Effects Of Progesterone

Right, but finasteride is very chemically similar to it. Look, im not trying to have a debate over it, clearly i inderstnad your standpoint on it, but I know higher levels of progesterone will inhibit testosterone and many people with pfs have very high levels of progesterone in their body, like 2x over the range. I understand doses like you said wouldn't do it.

I'm just trying to figure out how to lowet the progesterone in someone with pfs where it would be suppressing testosterone

I dont have the linj in front of me, but i heard Ray say on an interview that it can suppress it, I dk the amount, but if you are two times tge range, it makes sense to me that it is suppressing it and if the person is getting frequent urination, it seems plausible

 

[haidut]

Right, but finasteride is very chemically similar to it. Look, im not trying to have a debate over it, clearly i inderstnad your standpoint on it, but I know higher levels of progesterone will inhibit testosterone and many people with pfs have very high levels of progesterone in their body, like 2x over the range. I understand doses like you said wouldn't do it.

I'm just trying to figure out how to lowet the progesterone in someone with pfs where it would be suppressing testosterone

I dont have the linj in front of me, but i heard Ray say on an interview that it can suppress it, I dk the amount, but if you are two times tge range, it makes sense to me that it is suppressing it and if the person is getting frequent urination, it seems plausible

Well, since finasteride is blocking 5-AR and 17,20-lyase the only pathway left for progesterone to convert through it the aldosterone/cortisol pathway. So, a build up of progesterone and increase in aldosterone and cortisol is what is expected from finasteride administration and this is what the human studies show so far.

 

[GorillaHead]

10 months on finasteride and the biggest symptom I have noticed is a loss of aggression. Like I am way to calm. I can’t seem to last more than 30 mins in the gym. Like my willpower seems to have been cut in Half. I am thinking of supplementing low dose pregnenolone to counter the finasteride effects.

For me what finasteride has done for my hair has had a profound positive effect on my life, mentally speaking. I no longer sweat like crazy. I can actually go clubbing in a dressshirt without pit stains. I don’t get acne anymore. I had some aggression which I beleive is related to my genetics which is probably coming from my dads side who are all super angry people.

I am pretty sure I have more dht than the average person hence why I am super lean. But I am starting to think it’s effect on my neurosteroids is affecting my performance.

I hope pregnelone can fix this

 

[brix]

10 months on finasteride and the biggest symptom I have noticed is a loss of aggression. Like I am way to calm. I can’t seem to last more than 30 mins in the gym. Like my willpower seems to have been cut in Half. I am thinking of supplementing low dose pregnenolone to counter the finasteride effects.

For me what finasteride has done for my hair has had a profound positive effect on my life, mentally speaking. I no longer sweat like crazy. I can actually go clubbing in a dressshirt without pit stains. I don’t get acne anymore. I had some aggression which I beleive is related to my genetics which is probably coming from my dads side who are all super angry people.

I am pretty sure I have more dht than the average person hence why I am super lean. But I am starting to think it’s effect on my neurosteroids is affecting my performance.

I hope pregnelone can fix this

You’re still on it? Any plan to come off?

 

[GorillaHead]

You’re still on it? Any plan to come off?

Nope no plans. As the only negative is the strength endurance issue.

3 positives> 1 negative. So far


I just ordered 5a-dhp. Hoping it will solve the issue