Autism caused by low allopregnenolone , chinese herb can treat

[Mauritio]

@Mauritio - I got the supplement (and another one recommended to use in tandem) yesterday. Started last night, will let you know how I get on. I had a strange dream, not sure if that's related, but hey lets see lol!

How you feeling?

Awesome . I stopped for now, because I felt a weirdly anxious when increasing the dose .
The GABA agonism of allopregnanolone has a u- shaped curve, with very low and very high dosages yielding the best results .
I might have fallen right in the middle . We'll see , I'll try it again at some point, maybe at a very low dosage .
But the brain/cognitive/ how I feel - benefits were one of a kind and I want to replicate this somehow.

Let me know how it's going for you !

 

[Ismail]

Awesome . I stopped for now, because I felt a weirdly anxious when increasing the dose .
The GABA agonism of allopregnanolone has a u- shaped curve, with very low and very high dosages yielding the best results .
I might have fallen right in the middle . We'll see , I'll try it again at some point, maybe at a very low dosage .
But the brain/cognitive/ how I feel - benefits were one of a kind and I want to replicate this somehow.

Let me know how it's going for you !

Oh wow! Will do buddy!

The TCM Dr said I only need to use it for round 10 days and mentioned that it's something she recommends using every now and then.

She said she hasn't used Cistanche before.

It's funny you mention the anxiety, as I felt anxious this morning and the dream last night was of my ex wife which as you can imagine wasn't great! lol!

I wonder if the reason of that is because of this supplement. Will continue with it today and tomorrow to see how it goes.

Cistanche on the other hand has been amazing, especially for my skin and also a subtle yet noticeable effect on my motivation/procrastination!

 

[Mauritio]

Oh wow! Will do buddy!

The TCM Dr said I only need to use it for round 10 days and mentioned that it's something she recommends using every now and then.

She said she hasn't used Cistanche before.

It's funny you mention the anxiety, as I felt anxious this morning and the dream last night was of my ex wife which as you can imagine wasn't great! lol!

I wonder if the reason of that is because of this supplement. Will continue with it today and tomorrow to see how it goes.

Cistanche on the other hand has been amazing, especially for my skin and also a subtle yet noticeable effect on my motivation/procrastination!

I stopped the sup on sunday and didnt feel much anxiety on Monday and none on tuesday . But I still felt kind of different/retained some of the benefits on Monday.

 

[Ismail]

I stopped the sup on sunday and didnt feel much anxiety on Monday and none on tuesday . But I still felt kind of different/retained some of the benefits on Monday.

Have you thought of getting back on cistanche to see how you feel? I felt great on it tbh! I’m still gonna give this herb a day or two and see how I get on. Itching to go back on the cistanche ??

I’ll ask the TCM doctor if she knows much more about cistanche. It’ll be interesting to see if there’s much difference between the jing herbs version I’m using and the tubulosa one she will get me - the study you posted a while back on the differences between the two doesn’t seem to go into the application differences unfortunately.

 

[Mauritio]

Have you thought of getting back on cistanche to see how you feel? I felt great on it tbh! I’m still gonna give this herb a day or two and see how I get on. Itching to go back on the cistanche ??

I’ll ask the TCM doctor if she knows much more about cistanche. It’ll be interesting to see if there’s much difference between the jing herbs version I’m using and the tubulosa one she will get me - the study you posted a while back on the differences between the two doesn’t seem to go into the application differences unfortunately.

Yeah I constantly do it's still sitting on my shelf . But I have like 4 or 5 things I want to try before it . But I'll definitely go back on cistanche .

The difference is hard to predict . As people also reported differences amongst the different producers of cistanche tubulosa . So it's not sure a difference of the effects would be due to it being a different plant family ,maybe just the place it was grown ,manufacturer, etc...

 

[Ismail]

Yeah I constantly do it's still sitting on my shelf . But I have like 4 or 5 things I want to try before it . But I'll definitely go back on cistanche .

The difference is hard to predict . As people also reported differences amongst the different producers of cistanche tubulosa . So it's not sure a difference of the effects would be due to it being a different plant family ,maybe just the place it was grown ,manufacturer, etc...

That’s a good point actually.
Do you mind me asking what else you’re going to try? ?

 

[GenericName86]

I’ll ask the TCM doctor if she knows much more about cistanche. It’ll be interesting to see if there’s much difference between the jing herbs version I’m using and the tubulosa one she will get me - the study you posted a while back on the differences between the two doesn’t seem to go into the application differences unfortunately.

I've ordered the lost empire herbs tubulosa and I'm going to order deserticola from na'vi organics to cycle through, I'm interested to see if I notice any difference between tubulosa and deserticola (I'm not sure which vendor sells the "best" deserticola) but since i read in a study abstract that "they vary in terms of pharmacological action and chemical components" I'm interested to self experiment with it. I feel like they will be similar but that's what experimenting is for.

 

[Ismail]

I've ordered the lost empire herbs tubulosa and I'm going to order deserticola from na'vi organics to cycle through, I'm interested to see if I notice any difference between tubulosa and deserticola (I'm not sure which vendor sells the "best" deserticola) but since i read in a study abstract that "they vary in terms of pharmacological action and chemical components" I'm interested to self experiment with it. I feel like they will be similar but that's what experimenting is for.

Wow! That’s gonna be amazing!
Please do keep us updated.
Have you thought about how you will experiment with each one?
i.e. 1 week deserticola, 1 week off, 1 week tubulosa etc. ??‍

 

[GenericName86]

Wow! That’s gonna be amazing!
Please do keep us updated.
Have you thought about how you will experiment with each one?
i.e. 1 week deserticola, 1 week off, 1 week tubulosa etc. ??‍

Yeah I plan to take my time with it, one week on then off, maybe even over a week off to be sure I get back to baseline. I don't expect the differences if any to be huge and even if there are any it could potentially come down to a difference in how the extracts were made.

 

[Ismail]

Yeah I plan to take my time with it, one week on then off, maybe even over a week off to be sure I get back to baseline. I don't expect the differences if any to be huge and even if there are any it could potentially come down to a difference in how the extracts were made.

Amazing ?

This will be very interesting ?

 

[Mauritio]

That’s a good point actually.
Do you mind me asking what else you’re going to try? ?

Phenylpiracetam , theacrine , bromantane , another chinese herb for the liver . And possibly something ray recommended for gut health ,if it ever arrives .

 

[Ismail]

Phenylpiracetam , theacrine , bromantane , another chinese herb for the liver . And possibly something ray recommended for gut health ,if it ever arrives .

Haha! I think we’re in the same boat!!!

I’ve been looking at bromantane and theacrine too ?

Was trying to get a legit source of bromantane here in the UK but haven’t had much success ?‍

 

[Mauritio]

Awesome . I'll probably try theacrine first at 100mg .

I also didn't find a good source for bromantane in Europe. I ordered from sience.bio it's been 5 weeks and it still hasn't arrived ...

 

[Mauritio]

I also wanted to mention that the best effect of Kami-shoyo-san is that it makes me laugh so hard . I dont necessarily laugh more often but when I was watching a sitcom after taking it I enjoyed it so much and genuinely laughed my **** of .
Now that I'm back to baseline I really feel the difference, I watch stuff in a more analytical way

I still wonder what's the mechanism of action behind its effects . I'm not sure if it's (only) allopregnanolone increase as I dont get the effect from 5adhp ...

 

[SaltiestSardine]

How is this supposed to be taken..all the TCM people i spoke to about formulating this for me in the UK, or who already sold it gave wildly contradictory usage instructions

 

[Mauritio]

How is this supposed to be taken..all the TCM people i spoke to about formulating this for me in the UK, or who already sold it gave wildly contradictory usage instructions

I took it orally.

 

[Brandin]

This study shows that the chinese herbal formula Kami-shoyo-san, also known as Jia Wei Xiao Yao Pian, can treat autism / reverse autistic behaviors in mice .

First they show that autistic behaviour was caused by a decrease in allopregnenolone. Then they gave mice the herbal formula and saw that it decreased autistic symptoms.
They say the mechanism of action was mainly an activation of D1 and GABA receptors and they didn't find an increase in allopregnenolone.

"Dysfunctions in the GABAergic system are associated with the pathogenesis of autism spectrum disorder (ASD). However, the mechanisms by which GABAergic system dysfunctions induce the pathophysiology of ASD remain unclear. We previously demonstrated that a selective type I 5α-reductase inhibitor SKF105111 (SKF) induced ASD-like behaviors, such as impaired sociability-related performance and repetitive grooming behaviors, in male mice. Moreover, the effects of SKF were caused by a decrease in the endogenous levels of allopregnanolone (ALLO), a positive allosteric modulator of the GABAA receptor. In this study, we used SKF-treated male mice as a putative animal model of ASD and examined the effects of Kami-shoyo-san (KSS) as an experimental therapeutic strategy for ASD. KSS is a traditional Kampo formula consisting of 10 different crude drugs and has been used for the treatment of neuropsychiatric symptoms. KSS dose-dependently attenuated sociability deficits and suppressed an increase in grooming behaviors in SKF-treated mice without affecting ALLO content in the prefrontal cortex. The systemic administration of the dopamine D1 receptor antagonist SCH23390 reversed the ameliorative effects of KSS. On the other hand, the dopamine D2 receptor antagonist sulpiride and GABAA receptor antagonist bicuculline only attenuated the ameliorative effect of KSS on repetitive self-grooming behaviors. The present results indicate that KSS improves SKF-induced ASD-like behaviors by facilitating dopamine receptor-mediated mechanisms and partly by neurosteroid-independent GABAA receptor-mediated neurotransmission. Therefore, KSS is a potential candidate for the treatment of ASD."

Kami-shoyo-san improves ASD-like behaviors caused by decreasing allopregnanolone biosynthesis in an SKF mouse model of autism

Dysfunctions in the GABAergic system are associated with the pathogenesis of autism spectrum disorder (ASD). However, the mechanisms by which GABAergic system dysfunctions induce the pathophysiology of ASD remain unclear. We previously demonstrated that ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I found another study that showed an increase in neurosteroid production with Kami-shoyo-san. The most potent neurosteroid is pregenolone or allopregnenolone so it did probably increase one of those.

"These findings suggest that TJ-24 shows the anxiolytic effect through the neurosteroid synthesis followed by GABA(A)/BDZ receptor stimulations."

Anxiolytic effect of Kami-Shoyo-San (TJ-24) in mice: possible mediation of neurosteroid synthesis - PubMed

We assessed the anxiolytic effect of Kami-Shoyo-San (Jia-wei-xiao-yao-san; TJ-24), one of a traditional Chinese herbal medicine used for the treatment of menopausal anxiety, by the social interaction (SI) test in male mice. Acute administration of TJ-24 (25-100 mg/kg, p.o.), as well as the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I have never heard of this herbal formula . But the increase in allopregnenolone/pregnenolone, GABA and dopamin in the brain is very interesting.

Its components:
View attachment 21819

@Hans @Lokzo

***t this is some epic stuff!

 

[Brandin]

Haha! I think we’re in the same boat!!!

I’ve been looking at bromantane and theacrine too ?

Was trying to get a legit source of bromantane here in the UK but haven’t had much success ?‍

I ordered bromantane from a supplier in sweden but then got contacted by the supplier telling me that they were gonna stop selling it . I then asked to instead try Magnesium L_threonate and 9-me-bc. 9-me-bc definitely gave me a dopaminergic boost!

 

[Mauritio]

I ordered bromantane from a supplier in sweden but then got contacted by the supplier telling me that they were gonna stop selling it . I then asked to instead try Magnesium L_threonate and 9-me-bc. 9-me-bc definitely gave me a dopaminergic boost!

Nice , I'm interested in 9me-bc too. Did it have any long term effects on you?

 

[milkboi]

I ordered bromantane from a supplier in sweden but then got contacted by the supplier telling me that they were gonna stop selling it . I then asked to instead try Magnesium L_threonate and 9-me-bc. 9-me-bc definitely gave me a dopaminergic boost!

Found this website for Bromantane Bromantane – pglchem. Haven't ordered from there yet, but I'm pretty sure it's legit