10-day long panic (+visit to ER) seemingly shut down with potassium

[undecided0]

Hello,

I was doing fine for months until I started spiralling down into deeper and deeper anxiety which became full-blown panic for days on end, triggering migraines and just a really ****88 up situation. the migraines had a strange visual aura.
this morning I drank 3000mg potassium through liquids over the course of about 2 hours and wow... for once I feel grounded and the panic fully stopped. Thing is, I was already drinking a bit of orange juice daily during this period but definitely not this much potassium, maybe at most 800-1000mg from OJ throughout the day. Even more interesting, is that I had a food source of potassium daily usually through potatoes. The ER visit ran a bunch of bloodwork and everything came back normal, and they even did a CT scan of my head because of my strange migraines which is normal too. Potassium middle of ref. range although I've read this doesn't go down until truly/dangerously potassium deficient. Magnesium had no effect (and was normal on bloodwork) Also, I have been heavy on the sugar/carbs without the usual stress relief it provides. In the past hour I've peed what seems like BUCKETS of water.

It has been an hour since the potassium and I am drastically improved, with lingering anxiety which is likely psychological after being in that state for a while. Also, cyproheptadine did not help, as well as the 0.5mg xanax they gave me at the ER. Crazy that I was on full blown benzo with no remission.

The daily panic is triggered following morning coffee and subsequent bowel movement. A week ago I started making sure endotoxin was in check through activated charcoal and limiting anything hard to digest without really much improving. In the past endotoxin was the cause of strange anxiety, does not seem to be the case now. Coffee heavily increases my symptoms, but I've been a daily coffee drinker for many many years and this is the first time this happened.

Whether this lasts I don't know, but I've never had rapid remission like this since this started ~10 days ago.
What are the likely offenders for quickly depleting potassium? I have been trying a few random supplements lately and I think something drove up potassium needs drastically. This does not seem to be a pH problem I don't think, but I guess I could try a bit of bicarb and see if it has a similar effect. This started around the time I started taking cocoa (doesn't copper use up potassium?), some selenium, and honestly I don't remember what else. I havent taken ANY supplements since this started 10 days ago, which the exception of the cypro last night and the benzo from the ER.

 

[ThinPicking]

I don't have a lot of time/attention at the mo so this will probably be a bit rough.

It sounds like you have some kind of RAAS dysfunction Mx Undecided. I reckon most manifestations of angst are rooted in RAAS and/or HPA disorder and I know at least two of the corrective signals for physiological needs can become decalibrated, for example you can be physiologically thirsty without being thirsty. But that's not necessarily why I'm jumping to conclusion here.

Others can disagree but I doubt you had a genuine acute physiological need for 3 grams of potassium, even spaced over a couple of hours. You'd probably have a bunch of other symptoms, bizarre feelings/sensations if you were that close to the wire. And it doesn't seem to have quenched the primary symptom you described. I doubt your "lingering anxiety" would be "psychological after being in that state for a while". You also shouldn't be having "panic" reactions to coffee . You also shouldn't be immune to a reasonable effective dose of Xanax nor a dose of Cypro, albeit unknown. You also shouldn't be having diuresis-like response to anything you actually need. If you felt you had edema sufficient to produce "BUCKETS" of genuine excess I think you'd have mentioned it. You also shouldn't be having "migraines" severe enough to warrant imaging.

Before I go any further can you tell me roughly how old you are, what you're eating and drinking other than orange juice and coffee, and at what times. Be honest and detailed please. Also do you take your temperature and body weight on a regular basis by any chance?

Good decision to ditch the supplements and ask for help.

 

[Peatress]

What kind of potassium did you use?

In the future please avoid CT scans to the head. They found nothing but you've been left with the effects of radiation.

 

[amz]

Interesting.

I had migraines 24/7, with aura, since mid 2018 until 2021.

Triggers: anything that triggered the insulin response (anything sweet and easily absorbed and with a high Glycemic load). Also coffee or decaf coffee.

I noticed that since I started taking thiamine and, along with it potassium, the migraine headache lessened, and my heart symptoms too. When taking about 4000 mg per day, spread out in 4 doses, the migraine symptoms are at bay. I take the other electrolytes in higher doses too, especially calcium as dicalcium phosphate.

If I want to eat something sweet, I take it with a lot of potassium (1-2 grams + the usual dicalcium phosphate + small amount of magnesium), and I don’t have a migraine+heart symptoms. In fact, my heart symptoms + migraine seem to stem from the same cause. And my potassium levels always showed to be within normal range.

Potassium depletion due to other deficiencies or other drugs will cause arrhythmias in some people.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.119.315641

BUT, I believe I’ve been thiamine deficient for years (hence the awesome results of TTTFD treatment in my case), and thiamine deficiency leads to intracellular potassium wasting in tissues, despite having normal blood levels of potassium.

Thiamine Deficiency Causes Intracellular Potassium Wasting - Hormones Matter

Whilst I always suspected a link between potassium and thiamine, I hadn't found research elucidating the mechanisms. Thiamine deficiency causes intracellular potassium wasting.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Btw, right when I became completely bedridden in 2016/2017, I would have many episodes of what could be called “panic attacks”, without the panic, because I was very zen. What was I doing wrong back then?
I had been taking high doses of magnesium for about a month, without adequate calcium or thiamine.
Magnesium supplementation increases the need for thiamine and the thiamine deficiency became worse.

The “panic” attacks symptoms stopped when I reduced my magnesium intake to 300 mg/day.

 

[amz]

Before I go any further can you tell me roughly how old you are, what you're eating and drinking other than orange juice and coffee, and at what times. Be honest and detailed please. Also do you take your temperature and body weight on a regular basis by any chance?

Good decision to ditch the supplements and ask for help.

Very important to know indeed

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

When I was on the carnivore diet the only thing that kept me from insanity, anxiety and muscle and organ contractions are potassium citrate pills. Potassium chloride did nothing and neither did any form of magnesium. Actually magnesium made things much worse.

I am curious whether you took potassium citrate as a supplement or some other form?

 

[amz]

When I was on the carnivore diet the only thing that kept me from insanity, anxiety and muscle and organ contractions are potassium citrate pills. Potassium chloride did nothing and neither did any form of magnesium. Actually magnesium made things much worse.

I am curious whether you took potassium citrate as a supplement or some other form?

I also use potassium citrate. I know the citrate part helps with dissolving oxalate crystals or something like that. I never used potassium chloride.

Magnesium is also an electrolyte and probably aggravates intracellular potassium issues.

Before going carnivore, did you eat a high oxalate diet (many grains, legumes and vegetables)?

I’ve been vegetarian since I was a toddler and a lot of my health issues are related to the high oxalate content of my decades long “healthy” diet.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Before going carnivore, did you eat a high oxalate diet (many grains, legumes and vegetables)?

Actually extremely little. I barely ate legumes, beans and vegetables. Maybe once or twice a month but not sure about that frequency either... Probably even less than that.

 

[amz]

Actually extremely little. I barely ate legumes, beans and vegetables. Maybe once or twice a month but not sure about that frequency either... Probably even less than that.

Bread? Fruit? Nuts? etc
What did you eat prior to going carnivore?

Almost every food that isn’t of animal origin is high in oxalates.

 

[Thalgo]

Interesting.

I had migraines 24/7, with aura, since mid 2018 until 2021.

Triggers: anything that triggered the insulin response (anything sweet and easily absorbed and with a high Glycemic load). Also coffee or decaf coffee.

I noticed that since I started taking thiamine and, along with it potassium, the migraine headache lessened, and my heart symptoms too. When taking about 4000 mg per day, spread out in 4 doses, the migraine symptoms are at bay. I take the other electrolytes in higher doses too, especially calcium as dicalcium phosphate.

If I want to eat something sweet, I take it with a lot of potassium (1-2 grams + the usual dicalcium phosphate + small amount of magnesium), and I don’t have a migraine+heart symptoms. In fact, my heart symptoms + migraine seem to stem from the same cause. And my potassium levels always showed to be within normal range.

Potassium depletion due to other deficiencies or other drugs will cause arrhythmias in some people.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.119.315641

BUT, I believe I’ve been thiamine deficient for years (hence the awesome results of TTTFD treatment in my case), and thiamine deficiency leads to intracellular potassium wasting in tissues, despite having normal blood levels of potassium.

Thiamine Deficiency Causes Intracellular Potassium Wasting - Hormones Matter

Whilst I always suspected a link between potassium and thiamine, I hadn't found research elucidating the mechanisms. Thiamine deficiency causes intracellular potassium wasting.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Btw, right when I became completely bedridden in 2016/2017, I would have many episodes of what could be called “panic attacks”, without the panic, because I was very zen. What was I doing wrong back then?
I had been taking high doses of magnesium for about a month, without adequate calcium or thiamine.
Magnesium supplementation increases the need for thiamine and the thiamine deficiency became worse.

The “panic” attacks symptoms stopped when I reduced my magnesium intake to 300 mg/day.

You take 4 grams of ttfd?

 

[amz]

You take 4 grams of ttfd?

No, the maximum TTFD has been 1200 mg/day.
I take about 4000 mg potassium, 2000 mg calcium and 1800 mg phosphate as dicalcium phosphate.

 

[Thalgo]

Is that 24 50mg pills? I’m currently reading dr. Londsdale seminal work, high-calorie malnutrition

 

[amz]

Is that 24 50mg pills? I’m currently reading dr. Londsdale seminal work, high-calorie malnutrition

I bought potassium citrate in bulk (1 kg or 5 kg). I make my own capsules.
I started low (30 mg per day) about two years ago because I was experiencing very strong side effects from it (mainly heart-related).
Dr. Lonsdale always says to start everything low, because the body needs time to start working properly again.

 

[undecided0]

I don't have a lot of time/attention at the mo so this will probably be a bit rough.

It sounds like you have some kind of RAAS dysfunction Mx Undecided. I reckon most manifestations of angst are rooted in RAAS and/or HPA disorder and I know at least two of the corrective signals for physiological needs can become decalibrated, for example you can be physiologically thirsty without being thirsty. But that's not necessarily why I'm jumping to conclusion here.

Others can disagree but I doubt you had a genuine acute physiological need for 3 grams of potassium, even spaced over a couple of hours. You'd probably have a bunch of other symptoms, bizarre feelings/sensations if you were that close to the wire. And it doesn't seem to have quenched the primary symptom you described. I doubt your "lingering anxiety" would be "psychological after being in that state for a while". You also shouldn't be having "panic" reactions to coffee . You also shouldn't be immune to a reasonable effective dose of Xanax nor a dose of Cypro, albeit unknown. You also shouldn't be having diuresis-like response to anything you actually need. If you felt you had edema sufficient to produce "BUCKETS" of genuine excess I think you'd have mentioned it. You also shouldn't be having "migraines" severe enough to warrant imaging.

Before I go any further can you tell me roughly how old you are, what you're eating and drinking other than orange juice and coffee, and at what times. Be honest and detailed please. Also do you take your temperature and body weight on a regular basis by any chance?

Good decision to ditch the supplements and ask for help.

Thanks. OK you're right, it seemed to be helped with any large fluid intake. I eat meats, fruits, vegetables, little to no dairy because gut issues, but since this started I'm kinda eating whatever because of the stress. Please if you have any clues I'm grasping at straws here. I am in my early 20s, male. Sometimes I eat around noon and sometimes at night, both, there is no set schedule honestly.
today I upped the calcium to see if that will help calm nerves

 

[HeyThere]

Been dealing with almost the same thing past month, and cyclic my whole life. I can only speak for myself:

JUST went through this yesterday, hitting my limit with feeling weird, off, itching, dizzy, all of it... took 1/4th of a 1,000mcg B12 and within minutes everything lifted like a cloud of miracles. B12, I have found out, releases free histamine in the body like crazy. Yes, I actually had a purge of histamine right after I took it. A big cough attack with sneezing and liquid oozing out of my eyes and nose. I felt like a million bucks after feeling like death for well over a week.

You seem to be dealing with chronic dehydration. Look up symptoms of chronic dehydration, you may be surprised at how awful it can make one feel!! Activated charcoal is a MASSIVE DEHYDRATOR, be careful. Certain vitamins also dehydrate, and foods.

Drinking excessive OJ = excessive sugar and something called Salicylates. When you are dehydrated, you don't pee out Salicylates and that's when the hell starts and lingers. Look up the symptoms, too many to mention, but you mentioned a lot. Excessive peeing comes before migraines for me, also the ear ringing, off balance, all of it. A lot of people are finally waking up to Salicylates, but a lot are clueless still. You need your vitamin levels for your body to process everything. The stresses we are under are depleting us to death and our bodies are falling apart. We try to fix them, but sometimes throw the balance off even more when only taking a few vitamins vs all of them to balance them properly.

 

[undecided0]

Been dealing with almost the same thing past month, and cyclic my whole life. I can only speak for myself:

JUST went through this yesterday, hitting my limit with feeling weird, off, itching, dizzy, all of it... took 1/4th of a 1,000mcg B12 and within minutes everything lifted like a cloud of miracles. B12, I have found out, releases free histamine in the body like crazy. Yes, I actually had a purge of histamine right after I took it. A big cough attack with sneezing and liquid oozing out of my eyes and nose. I felt like a million bucks after feeling like death for well over a week.

You seem to be dealing with chronic dehydration. Look up symptoms of chronic dehydration, you may be surprised at how awful it can make one feel!! Activated charcoal is a MASSIVE DEHYDRATOR, be careful. Certain vitamins also dehydrate, and foods.

Drinking excessive OJ = excessive sugar and something called Salicylates. When you are dehydrated, you don't pee out Salicylates and that's when the hell starts and lingers. Look up the symptoms, too many to mention, but you mentioned a lot. Excessive peeing comes before migraines for me, also the ear ringing, off balance, all of it. A lot of people are finally waking up to Salicylates, but a lot are clueless still. You need your vitamin levels for your body to process everything. The stresses we are under are depleting us to death and our bodies are falling apart. We try to fix them, but sometimes throw the balance off even more when only taking a few vitamins vs all of them to balance them properly.

Hey, thanks for the response. It's been kinda burned into my brain that too much liquid is bad for metabolic rate so I didn't feel bad about not drinking much fluids over the past few years. The guy above @ThinPicking who responded talking about RAAS dysfunction mentioned something about me that I didn't even bring up, which is that I really don't feel thirsty ever. I used to be a heavy nicotine salt abuser and hitting my vape when thirsty would make me not thirsty, so maybe some weird brain rewiring happened. I think you both seem to be close to understanding my issue.

You're right, activated charcoal is a massive dehydrator and it was the day after I took it that I landed in the ER.

But here's what I don't understand: wouldn't serious dehydration show up somewhere in my electrolyte bloodwork? Electrolytes on paper come back normal but I guess it's not the best thing to look at. Also I don't like, go days without water or anything. I still have multiple cups of fluid one way or another every day at my worst.

Is the solution to continue consuming a lot of fluids? I'd guess that pure water is probably the worst for this.. but I'm thinking lots of salted OJ coconut water? Magnesium supps at night and high calcium intake?

Right now I managed to stop the panic again with water.

 

[HeyThere]

Hey, thanks for the response. It's been kinda burned into my brain that too much liquid is bad for metabolic rate so I didn't feel bad about not drinking much fluids over the past few years. The guy above @ThinPicking who responded talking about RAAS dysfunction mentioned something about me that I didn't even bring up, which is that I really don't feel thirsty ever. I used to be a heavy nicotine salt abuser and hitting my vape when thirsty would make me not thirsty, so maybe some weird brain rewiring happened. I think you both seem to be close to understanding my issue.

You're right, activated charcoal is a massive dehydrator and it was the day after I took it that I landed in the ER.

But here's what I don't understand: wouldn't serious dehydration show up somewhere in my electrolyte bloodwork? Electrolytes on paper come back normal but I guess it's not the best thing to look at. Also I don't like, go days without water or anything. I still have multiple cups of fluid one way or another every day at my worst.

Is the solution to continue consuming a lot of fluids? I'd guess that pure water is probably the worst for this.. but I'm thinking lots of salted OJ coconut water? Magnesium supps at night and high calcium intake?

Right now I managed to stop the panic again with water.

I don't know what to say about blood tests other than I got a FULL work up and EVERYTHING came "in range, you're okay".
I took a hair test and my calcium and electrolyte levels were as effed up as can be.
The ONLY time a blood test showed a bad level was years back when it said I had a 10 for Vitamin D.

If I was so okay, then why did adding vitamins and minerals (ever so slowly, I was SO depleted due to not being able to eat many foods) change my health so dramatically and so quickly? The Cabal would rather you take their med$ is my guess. They ignore comments through tears like "I am so stressed out.. I have been through A LOT in the past 10 years.. " they'd rather try to prescribe antidepressants than address that this ongoing stress depletes vitamins and minerals like a vacuum.

Oh, another huge thing that helps me when I feel "stuck" meaning heavy, mentally stuck in anxiety etc is taking something to raise my Nitric Oxide, L-Citrulline works well. But it does seem so far like you were severely dehydrated. be careful with supplementing calcium.. that's a very tricky one to mess with.

 

[undecided0]

I don't know what to say about blood tests other than I got a FULL work up and EVERYTHING came "in range, you're okay".
I took a hair test and my calcium and electrolyte levels were as effed up as can be.
The ONLY time a blood test showed a bad level was years back when it said I had a 10 for Vitamin D.

If I was so okay, then why did adding vitamins and minerals (ever so slowly, I was SO depleted due to not being able to eat many foods) change my health so dramatically and so quickly? The Cabal would rather you take their med$ is my guess. They ignore comments through tears like "I am so stressed out.. I have been through A LOT in the past 10 years.. " they'd rather try to prescribe antidepressants than address that this ongoing stress depletes vitamins and minerals like a vacuum.

Oh, another huge thing that helps me when I feel "stuck" meaning heavy, mentally stuck in anxiety etc is taking something to raise my Nitric Oxide, L-Citrulline works well. But it does seem so far like you were severely dehydrated. be careful with supplementing calcium.. that's a very tricky one to mess with.

Yeah it's calcium from dairy not supplements. milk mainly. Thank you

 

[HeyThere]

Yeah it's calcium from dairy not supplements. milk mainly. Thank you

I'd take K2 along with that to make sure the Calcium is getting into the right places vs your blood stream which will cause even more issues for you.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

@undecided0 what potassium did you take?