Getting off of SSNRI, and dealing with panic attacks.

[Peat Bogdanoff]

Ever since I was 8. I've been on a number of constantly shifting psychiatric medications. As of a year or so ago I have been working on weaning myself off of them with the aid of a psychiatrist, with priority to my SSNRI (Venlafaxine), partly because I can't take certain foods and supplements with them. A month or so ago I went from 150 to 75 mg, which seemed to go so well, that I stopped taking them, Bad move, I know. I feel like every person on psychiatrics makes this mistake at least once, haha. I experienced unprompted, physical panic attacks for the first time in my life. Without going into detail, it was a bit of a crisis situation, and with a new psychiatrist (due to a change in service provider), I will now be doing 75mg every other day, taking Hydroxyzine when a panic attack comes on (she also said it makes a good sleep aid) consensus on the Peat forums appear to be that Hydroxyzine can be good but is inferior to Cyproheptadine (something which I was actually prescribed for migraines in the past but both my PCP and this psychiatrist seemed wary of putting me on)?

I suppose my questions are "How do you deal with panic attacks?" (Oh, when i was having them I tried a tablespoon of salt and bag breathing, which worked very well but only lasted an hour or so.) and more "Are there concerns about Hydroxyzine I should be aware of?" Also, if anyone wants to share their experience in getting off SSRIs and SSRI-like drugs please do.

 

[Elie]

I have seen good quality rhodola rosea and b complex helpful at weaning off antidepressants.

 

[sunny]

I took them, so did my husband. You have to wean off verrrrrry slowly. After say a month of 75mg, divide that 75 into 4 pieces and take 3 pieces for a month. Then bite the 3rd piece in half and take 2 pieces and half of that 3rd piece for a month, etc. It is a slow and painstaking process.

After I found Peat and did some reading about ssri, I can remember thinking I wish I had known the info while trying to get of the ssri. I think that substance was progesterone. Also read up on the forum on serotonin reduction with substances such as cyproheptadine, famotadine, etc.

If you have not read, here is a Peat article on serotonin. Butter Living also did a Peat Interview about serotonin. Good luck. You can get thru it. We did. It was not fun, but life on the other side of it is worth the journey. Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.
also,

Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation

In the early 1950s, several people recognized that the symptoms produced by administering an excess of serotonin were similar to those experienced by people with intestinal tumors called argentaffinomas or carcinoid tumors, which are usually in the small intestine or appendix.

raypeat.com

Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

Beginning with the industrial production of glutamic acid (sold as MSG, monosodium glutamate), the public has been systematically misinformed about the effects of amino acids in the diet.

raypeat.com

"FROM TRYPTOPHAN SEROTONIN AND AGING:
"Serotonin excess produces a broad range of harmful effects: Cancer, inflammation, fibrosis, neurological damage, shock, bronchoconstriction, and hypertension, for example. Increased serotonin impairs learning, serotonin antagonists improve it.

The simplest, nonessential, amino acid, glycine, has been found to protect against carcinogenesis, inflammation, fibrosis, neurological damage, shock, asthma, and hypertension. Increased glycine improves learning (Handlemann, et al., 1989; File, et al., 1999), glycine antagonists usually impair it. Its antitoxic and cytoprotective actions are remarkable. Collagen, besides being free of tryptophan, contains a large amount of glycine--32% of its amino acid units, 22% of its weight.

The varied antiinflammatory and protective effects of glycine can be thought of as an antiserotonin action. For example, serotonin increases the formation of TNF (tumor necrosis factor, also called cachectin), glycine inhibits it. In some situations, glycine is known to suppress the formation of serotonin. Antagonists of serotonin can potentiate glycine's effects (Chesnoy-Marchais, et al., 2000). People who ate traditional diets, besides getting a lower concentration of tryptophan, were getting a large amount of glycine in their gelatin-rich diet.

Gelatin, besides being a good source of glycine, also contains a large amount of proline, which has some antiexcitatory properties similar to glycine.

If a half-pound of steak is eaten, it would probably be reasonable to have about 20 grams of gelatin at approximately the same time. Even a higher ratio of gelatin to muscle meat might be preferable.

Carbon dioxide, high altitude, thyroid, progesterone, caffeine, aspirin, and decreased tryptophan consumption protect against excessive serotonin release. When sodium intake is restricted, there is a sharp increase in serotonin secretion. This accounts for some of the antiinflammatory and diuretic effects of increased sodium consumption--increasing sodium lowers both serotonin and adrenalin.

The polyunsaturated oils interact closely with serotonin and tryptophan, and the short and medium chain saturated fatty acids have antihistamine and antiserotonin actions. Serotonin liberates free fatty acids from the tissues, especially the polyunsaturated fats, and these in turn liberate serotonin from cells such as the platelets, and liberate tryptophan from serum albumin, increasing its uptake and the formation of serotonin in the brain. Saturated fats don't liberate serotonin, and some of them, such as capric acid found in coconut oil, relax blood vessels, while linoleic acid constricts blood vessels and promotes hypertension. Stress, exercise, and darkness, increase the release of free fatty acids, and so promote the liberation of tryptophan and formation of serotonin. Increased serum linoleic acid is specifically associated with serotonin-dependent disorders such as migraine.

Coconut oil, because of its saturated fatty acids of varied chain length, and its low linoleic acid content, should be considered as part of a protective diet."

"

 

[Androsclerosis]

I used in the past SSRI drug Lexapro that made me suicidal, very depressed, numb and I hated life so much.
For panic attacks I didn't have any solution at that moment. Now, I suppose it would be good to take a 1g of vitamin B3 niacinamide with a full meal of carbs to lower stress and be calm. Also Glycine has a similar effect as Xanax, it decreases cortisol to the point of falling asleep. So if you take it at night, you may not wake up even with an alarm on.

I gave up cold turkey and this was a mistake, I remember how hard life was back then. I even lost a friend during that period. Tiredness was chronic and I felt like I could kill somebody easily. On them, Confidence/fearlessness was high af tho.
The first two weeks off them, I felt so insecure about myself that I couldn't have a normal conversation, my speech was slurred and my mind always blank. It took me 5 months to recover but I was still low key insecure. Only after a year I started implementing Ray Peat lifestyle and it improved to a point where I get a bit nervous at interviews/socializing only when I starve for more than 16 hours.
I am very happy I got off them.

You must get off them ASAP if you want a long and fulfilling life. Decrease the dosage every 2 weeks, eat a highly nutritious diet liver, eggs, milk, jam, take B3, glycine, caffeine, cypro from time to time and protect yourself from cold/stress. The process will be hard, but it's worth it. It may take up to 6 months till you recover fully. But keep in mind that if you start now, in 6 months you will be free.

 

[youngsinatra]

Do you have any symptoms of low norepinephrine?

Low blood pressure, dizziness, ADHD type, anxiety, depression, headaches?

Copper deficiency greatly reduces norepinephrine. (serotonin, too)

 

[HLP]

Ever since I was 8. I've been on a number of constantly shifting psychiatric medications. As of a year or so ago I have been working on weaning myself off of them with the aid of a psychiatrist, with priority to my SSNRI (Venlafaxine), partly because I can't take certain foods and supplements with them. A month or so ago I went from 150 to 75 mg, which seemed to go so well, that I stopped taking them, Bad move, I know. I feel like every person on psychiatrics makes this mistake at least once, haha. I experienced unprompted, physical panic attacks for the first time in my life. Without going into detail, it was a bit of a crisis situation, and with a new psychiatrist (due to a change in service provider), I will now be doing 75mg every other day, taking Hydroxyzine when a panic attack comes on (she also said it makes a good sleep aid) consensus on the Peat forums appear to be that Hydroxyzine can be good but is inferior to Cyproheptadine (something which I was actually prescribed for migraines in the past but both my PCP and this psychiatrist seemed wary of putting me on)?

I suppose my questions are "How do you deal with panic attacks?" (Oh, when i was having them I tried a tablespoon of salt and bag breathing, which worked very well but only lasted an hour or so.) and more "Are there concerns about Hydroxyzine I should be aware of?" Also, if anyone wants to share their experience in getting off SSRIs and SSRI-like drugs please do.

Niacinamide

 

[Korven]

I used in the past SSRI drug Lexapro that made me suicidal, very depressed, numb and I hated life so much.
For panic attacks I didn't have any solution at that moment. Now, I suppose it would be good to take a 1g of vitamin B3 niacinamide with a full meal of carbs to lower stress and be calm. Also Glycine has a similar effect as Xanax, it decreases cortisol to the point of falling asleep. So if you take it at night, you may not wake up even with an alarm on.

I gave up cold turkey and this was a mistake, I remember how hard life was back then. I even lost a friend during that period. Tiredness was chronic and I felt like I could kill somebody easily. On them, Confidence/fearlessness was high af tho.
The first two weeks off them, I felt so insecure about myself that I couldn't have a normal conversation, my speech was slurred and my mind always blank. It took me 5 months to recover but I was still low key insecure. Only after a year I started implementing Ray Peat lifestyle and it improved to a point where I get a bit nervous at interviews/socializing only when I starve for more than 16 hours.
I am very happy I got off them.

You must get off them ASAP if you want a long and fulfilling life. Decrease the dosage every 2 weeks, eat a highly nutritious diet liver, eggs, milk, jam, take B3, glycine, caffeine, cypro from time to time and protect yourself from cold/stress. The process will be hard, but it's worth it. It may take up to 6 months till you recover fully. But keep in mind that if you start now, in 6 months you will be free.

Solid advice right there.

@Peat Bogdanoff I would recommend the holy trinity of milk, aspirin and sunshine.

 

[mostlylurking]

my questions are "How do you deal with panic attacks?"

Thiamine (vitamin B1) helps with anxiety and panic attacks. It also is required for blood/brain barrier integrity. Thiamine also is required for the reuptake/reduction of brain serotonin. It could be helpful.

Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Serotonin turnover has been investigated in regional brain areas of rats made thiamine deficient by pyrithiamine (PT). Following intracisternal injection of [14C]5-hydroxytryptamine ([14C]5-HT), a marked increase in the accumulation of [14C]5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid ([14C]5-HIAA) was found in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Peat Bogdanoff]

I took them, so did my husband. You have to wean off verrrrrry slowly. After say a month of 75mg, divide that 75 into 4 pieces and take 3 pieces for a month. Then bite the 3rd piece in half and take 2 pieces and half of that 3rd piece for a month, etc. It is a slow and painstaking process.

After I found Peat and did some reading about ssri, I can remember thinking I wish I had known the info while trying to get of the ssri. I think that substance was progesterone. Also read up on the forum on serotonin reduction with substances such as cyproheptadine, famotadine, etc.

If you have not read, here is a Peat article on serotonin. Butter Living also did a Peat Interview about serotonin. Good luck. You can get thru it. We did. It was not fun, but life on the other side of it is worth the journey. Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.
also,

Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation

In the early 1950s, several people recognized that the symptoms produced by administering an excess of serotonin were similar to those experienced by people with intestinal tumors called argentaffinomas or carcinoid tumors, which are usually in the small intestine or appendix.

raypeat.com

Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

Beginning with the industrial production of glutamic acid (sold as MSG, monosodium glutamate), the public has been systematically misinformed about the effects of amino acids in the diet.

raypeat.com

"FROM TRYPTOPHAN SEROTONIN AND AGING:
"Serotonin excess produces a broad range of harmful effects: Cancer, inflammation, fibrosis, neurological damage, shock, bronchoconstriction, and hypertension, for example. Increased serotonin impairs learning, serotonin antagonists improve it.

The simplest, nonessential, amino acid, glycine, has been found to protect against carcinogenesis, inflammation, fibrosis, neurological damage, shock, asthma, and hypertension. Increased glycine improves learning (Handlemann, et al., 1989; File, et al., 1999), glycine antagonists usually impair it. Its antitoxic and cytoprotective actions are remarkable. Collagen, besides being free of tryptophan, contains a large amount of glycine--32% of its amino acid units, 22% of its weight.

The varied antiinflammatory and protective effects of glycine can be thought of as an antiserotonin action. For example, serotonin increases the formation of TNF (tumor necrosis factor, also called cachectin), glycine inhibits it. In some situations, glycine is known to suppress the formation of serotonin. Antagonists of serotonin can potentiate glycine's effects (Chesnoy-Marchais, et al., 2000). People who ate traditional diets, besides getting a lower concentration of tryptophan, were getting a large amount of glycine in their gelatin-rich diet.

Gelatin, besides being a good source of glycine, also contains a large amount of proline, which has some antiexcitatory properties similar to glycine.

If a half-pound of steak is eaten, it would probably be reasonable to have about 20 grams of gelatin at approximately the same time. Even a higher ratio of gelatin to muscle meat might be preferable.

Carbon dioxide, high altitude, thyroid, progesterone, caffeine, aspirin, and decreased tryptophan consumption protect against excessive serotonin release. When sodium intake is restricted, there is a sharp increase in serotonin secretion. This accounts for some of the antiinflammatory and diuretic effects of increased sodium consumption--increasing sodium lowers both serotonin and adrenalin.

The polyunsaturated oils interact closely with serotonin and tryptophan, and the short and medium chain saturated fatty acids have antihistamine and antiserotonin actions. Serotonin liberates free fatty acids from the tissues, especially the polyunsaturated fats, and these in turn liberate serotonin from cells such as the platelets, and liberate tryptophan from serum albumin, increasing its uptake and the formation of serotonin in the brain. Saturated fats don't liberate serotonin, and some of them, such as capric acid found in coconut oil, relax blood vessels, while linoleic acid constricts blood vessels and promotes hypertension. Stress, exercise, and darkness, increase the release of free fatty acids, and so promote the liberation of tryptophan and formation of serotonin. Increased serum linoleic acid is specifically associated with serotonin-dependent disorders such as migraine.

Coconut oil, because of its saturated fatty acids of varied chain length, and its low linoleic acid content, should be considered as part of a protective diet."

"

I've been a vegetarian for idealogical reasons even longer than I've been on psychiatrics, but have begun eating meat again in the past year. I haven't encountered much difficulty digesting meat but find the taste of all kinds of meat difficult to deal with after such a long time. I'm looking for good braunschweiger right now as a way to get in some liver. I currently eat one of those cans of smoked oysters in olive oil per week.

I understand that Peat seems to suggest getting gelatin directly from foods, but I have grass-fed collagen powder from cattle. Is this an appropriate source of gelatin?

 

[sunny]

I've been a vegetarian for idealogical reasons even longer than I've been on psychiatrics, but have begun eating meat again in the past year. I haven't encountered much difficulty digesting meat but find the taste of all kinds of meat difficult to deal with after such a long time. I'm looking for good braunschweiger right now as a way to get in some liver. I currently eat one of those cans of smoked oysters in olive oil per week.

I understand that Peat seems to suggest getting gelatin directly from foods, but I have grass-fed collagen powder from cattle. Is this an appropriate source of gelatin?

I think gelatin powder may be better than collagen for glycine. Many people here use great lakes.

US wellness meats has braunschweiger. They also have a ground beef mixture with liver, heart, and kidney. I use that one for chilli..

Do you get sodium? I use diamond crystal kosher salt and put it in orange juice, in addition to salting foods.

"Carbon dioxide, high altitude, thyroid, progesterone, caffeine, aspirin, and decreased tryptophan consumption protect against excessive serotonin release. When sodium intake is restricted, there is a sharp increase in serotonin secretion. This accounts for some of the antiinflammatory and diuretic effects of increased sodium consumption--increasing sodium lowers both serotonin and adrenalin."

 

[sunny]

Also, "have you tried the carrot salad?" ?

 

[Peat Bogdanoff]

Also, "have you tried the carrot salad?" ?

Not the carrot salad, but I discovered that I love raw carrot recently, I used to only like them cooked. it's probably the single food I eat the most of by volume. How much carrot is too much?

 

[Peat Bogdanoff]

I think gelatin powder may be better than collagen for glycine. Many people here use great lakes.

US wellness meats has braunschweiger. They also have a ground beef mixture with liver, heart, and kidney. I use that one for chilli..

Do you get sodium? I use diamond crystal kosher salt and put it in orange juice, in addition to salting foods.

"Carbon dioxide, high altitude, thyroid, progesterone, caffeine, aspirin, and decreased tryptophan consumption protect against excessive serotonin release. When sodium intake is restricted, there is a sharp increase in serotonin secretion. This accounts for some of the antiinflammatory and diuretic effects of increased sodium consumption--increasing sodium lowers both serotonin and adrenalin."

Is gelatin not just collagen that had been heated? When looking up gelatin on the forum I see discussion that suggests Great Lakes may have suffered in quality.

Most of my sodium comes from cheese, I think. I only add it to eggs, really. As I mentioned, I have tried a spoonful of salt as it seems to instantly reduce stress, but I haven't been doing that regularly. Perhaps I should.

 

[sunny]

Try salt in orange juice, it's really good. I was using mortons canning and pickling salt, but prefer diamond Krystal kosher salt.

Collagen/gelatin, maybe same, Peat always refers to using gelatin. Here is an article worth reading.

Gelatin, stress, longevity

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

I was using an organic gelatin. I ran across this article recently and was going to review brands.

Best & Worst Collagen 2020: Nature's Jello & It's Benefits

Collagen peptides & gelatin are $120 million dollar industry. Mamavation ranked the most popular brands without heavy metals.

www.mamavation.com

 

[Phosphor]

I don't know if this can be helpful or not as just a "concept" post. I had horrid lifelong depression and tried a number of things, all of which caused me to be worse. At one point I was given Prozac (back when it was new) and had my first ever terror attack just after starting taking it. I called the practitioner and was told by the nurse that "it takes a few weeks to take effect," and she totally missed the fact that I had never had a terror attack BEFORE taking an SSRI. So I stopped that forthwith and lived with the depression.
Somewhat later and I don't even remember why I started with L-tyrosine, but one of my problems as a performing musician was incredible, uncontrollable stage fright with "no discernible cause;" instead of just getting nervous I would start to pass out, not really a very good thing for a performer. Many performers take beta blockers but even a small dose of that turned me into a zombie. However --- somehow I discovered that 1500 mg of L tyrosine made me "just normally nervous" for a performance instead of having to fight to even stay conscious. I was NOT deficient in serotonin but in dopamine! (CBS A360A +\+.) SSRIs made me worse because they were actually increasing the imbalance I had.
After that, I read an article somewhere that the assumption that depression is caused "only" by low serotonin is one of those silver bullet blind thinking things that happens in our pharmaceutical approach to problems, and that a study could be done of the levels of the various neurotransmitters in a person to find out which amino acid(s) would correct the imbalance. Since I had already, by accident, found out that L tyrosine was a godsend for me, I did not go into paying for testing to tell me something I already knew. This was years ago and with L tyrosine I have been fine on stage, an amazing result for me; and if my mood gets way too far down, I can take that and be ok. Warning though: if you are not deficient in dopamine and you wonk down this dose of L tyrosine, be prepared for it to backfire on you just like Prozac did on me. A friend with stage fright, and who is a registered nurse (i.e., educated) tried just 100mg and had quite the time of it until it wore off. So -- food for thought. Just because "everyone" assumes that depression is caused by low serotonin, does not make it true.
I also got great help from the mauve test for pyroluria and went on high dose zinc which I still take. I can tell if I'm not taking enough because my intense light sensitivity comes back and so does the associated depression. This is genetic and I even know which parent I got it from because of which parent could not be in the sun without sun glasses, and who spent their whole life depressed.

 

[Peat Bogdanoff]

I don't know if this can be helpful or not as just a "concept" post. I had horrid lifelong depression and tried a number of things, all of which caused me to be worse. At one point I was given Prozac (back when it was new) and had my first ever terror attack just after starting taking it. I called the practitioner and was told by the nurse that "it takes a few weeks to take effect," and she totally missed the fact that I had never had a terror attack BEFORE taking an SSRI. So I stopped that forthwith and lived with the depression.
Somewhat later and I don't even remember why I started with L-tyrosine, but one of my problems as a performing musician was incredible, uncontrollable stage fright with "no discernible cause;" instead of just getting nervous I would start to pass out, not really a very good thing for a performer. Many performers take beta blockers but even a small dose of that turned me into a zombie. However --- somehow I discovered that 1500 mg of L tyrosine made me "just normally nervous" for a performance instead of having to fight to even stay conscious. I was NOT deficient in serotonin but in dopamine! (CBS A360A +\+.) SSRIs made me worse because they were actually increasing the imbalance I had.
After that, I read an article somewhere that the assumption that depression is caused "only" by low serotonin is one of those silver bullet blind thinking things that happens in our pharmaceutical approach to problems, and that a study could be done of the levels of the various neurotransmitters in a person to find out which amino acid(s) would correct the imbalance. Since I had already, by accident, found out that L tyrosine was a godsend for me, I did not go into paying for testing to tell me something I already knew. This was years ago and with L tyrosine I have been fine on stage, an amazing result for me; and if my mood gets way too far down, I can take that and be ok. Warning though: if you are not deficient in dopamine and you wonk down this dose of L tyrosine, be prepared for it to backfire on you just like Prozac did on me. A friend with stage fright, and who is a registered nurse (i.e., educated) tried just 100mg and had quite the time of it until it wore off. So -- food for thought. Just because "everyone" assumes that depression is caused by low serotonin, does not make it true.
I also got great help from the mauve test for pyroluria and went on high dose zinc which I still take. I can tell if I'm not taking enough because my intense light sensitivity comes back and so does the associated depression. This is genetic and I even know which parent I got it from because of which parent could not be in the sun without sun glasses, and who spent their whole life depressed.

I believe the consensus in Peatery is that a deficiency of serotonin is never, or very rarely, the cause of depression because serotonin is not the "happiness hormone".

 

[ReSTART]

Ssris “fix” depression by increasing serotonin (I know that isnt technically correct, I’m simplifying how it works), which is why people on antidepressants feel like zombies with stunted emotions.

Snris do the same thing but have effects on noradrenaline, which is stimulating so has slightly less of emotion blunting/zombie like effect.

In short terms:

Snris like Effexor/venlafaxine are basically upper and downer while ssri are downer.
You feel bad because homeostasis, your body is used to artificially increased serotonin and noradrenaline and is freaking out when you go cold turkey.

So we don’t want to increase serotonin (obviously, this is ray peat forum). Noradrenaline is whatever, it doesn’t hurt if you have high metabolism can tolerate stress.

Tapering off snri will increase emotions (lower serotonin) and lower motivation and energy (lower noradrenaline).

Tapering off the snri while tapering onto cypro should heal some of toxic effects of high serotonin, idk if it’ll help with symptoms of the withdrawal effects of the snri, it could. Consult doctor before changing or starting any medication!

High dose cypro is pointless, it has effects on serotonin at low dose, so a higher dose will just cause more side effects.

Stimulants like nicotine and espresso coffee will prevent some of the low noradrenaline issues while you’re tapering, but you have to have high metabolism or stimulants will hurt you.

Also venlafaxine effects alpha 2 receptors, so myrcene in lavender or bay leaves may help, eating gelatinous cuts of meat cooked with lots of bay leaves and smelling lavender oil or putting lavender oil diluted in carrier oil on skin. Only medicines that aren’t toxic and effect alpha 2 are clonidine and guanfacine but they have other side effects and require prescription.

Also high serotonin causes gut bacteria issues, carrot salad and activated charcoal are good, antibiotics can help but again are prescription and have side effects.

Also what @Androsclerosis and @sunny have said above might help too! Salted orange juice, pork crackling, carbon dioxide (bag breathing), aspirin and red light therapy can all help.

NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, I JUST READ STUFF ONLINE AND FROM BOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, CONSULT DOCTOR BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!

 

[Peat Bogdanoff]

Ssris “fix” depression by increasing serotonin (I know that isnt technically correct, I’m simplifying how it works), which is why people on antidepressants feel like zombies with stunted emotions.

Snris do the same thing but have effects on noradrenaline, which is stimulating so has slightly less of emotion blunting/zombie like effect.

In short terms:

Snris like Effexor/venlafaxine are basically upper and downer while ssri are downer.
You feel bad because homeostasis, your body is used to artificially increased serotonin and noradrenaline and is freaking out when you go cold turkey.

So we don’t want to increase serotonin (obviously, this is ray peat forum). Noradrenaline is whatever, it doesn’t hurt if you have high metabolism can tolerate stress.

Tapering off snri will increase emotions (lower serotonin) and lower motivation and energy (lower noradrenaline).

Tapering off the snri while tapering onto cypro should heal some of toxic effects of high serotonin, idk if it’ll help with symptoms of the withdrawal effects of the snri, it could. Consult doctor before changing or starting any medication!

High dose cypro is pointless, it has effects on serotonin at low dose, so a higher dose will just cause more side effects.

Stimulants like nicotine and espresso coffee will prevent some of the low noradrenaline issues while you’re tapering, but you have to have high metabolism or stimulants will hurt you.

Also venlafaxine effects alpha 2 receptors, so myrcene in lavender or bay leaves may help, eating gelatinous cuts of meat cooked with lots of bay leaves and smelling lavender oil or putting lavender oil diluted in carrier oil on skin. Only medicines that aren’t toxic and effect alpha 2 are clonidine and guanfacine but they have other side effects and require prescription.

Also high serotonin causes gut bacteria issues, carrot salad and activated charcoal are good, antibiotics can help but again are prescription and have side effects.

Also what @Androsclerosis and @sunny have said above might help too! Salted orange juice, pork crackling, carbon dioxide (bag breathing), aspirin and red light therapy can all help.

NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, I JUST READ STUFF ONLINE AND FROM BOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, CONSULT DOCTOR BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!

What about Hydroxyzine, what my psychatrist prescribed to assist in the tapering off of the Venlafaxine? I'm reading it also has an anti-serotonin effect, and it is also an antihistimine. Is this acceptable in the absence of cypro or should I really try to get cypro?

Clonidine was actually prescribed to me at one point, I recall it making me extremely tired.

 

[ReSTART]

Hydroxyzine is mostly antihistamine, cypro has far stronger anti cholinergic and anti serotonin effects. Hydroxyzine is definitely safer than cypro, especially while you’re tapering the snri.

Because they give you standard Clonidine dose I assume, 100mcg, which is too strong and drops your blood pressure too much.

 

[ReSTART]

Hydroxyzine has some anti-serotonin effects but is also anti-dopamine (D2 antagonist) like crypo is, so coffee and nicotine can help prevent some of that effect.