Caffeine Withdrawal Panic Attacks

InChristAlone

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So back 15 days ago I woke up with this feeling of high anxiety in my brain, so I ate breakfast but waited a bit to have the coffee, then at noon had the sweet coffee it was pretty strong and I only got through a cup before the feeling like my BG was falling rapidly and I had a severe panic attack that lasted all day despite attempts to eat. So then I decided to quit all caffeine. The next day same thing happened after some OJ in the morning. This continued happening almost every other day. I knew it might happen based on this feeling in my brain like high inflammation or something. Yesterday I staved off the response by slowly eating potatoes and taking progesterone when I felt jittery. I thought I had found the answer but it didn't work today and I had another adrenaline rush although on the outside you would never know what was going on as I remain calm.

I had taken cyproheptadine last night and slept through. It felt so good to just sleep as I've been up and down with the caffeine withdrawal.

I am just getting so exhausted by the high anxiety. I've read of many accounts of this happening with caffeine withdrawal and this will be the longest I've ever been off, but also the most times I've ever had high anxiety in a short amount of time. And I've been through the wringer when it comes to adrenaline rushes in the past 2.5 yrs. This tops it all.

My health in other ways has been okay, my weight is good. Besides the lack of appetite with this adrenaline. And also when I quit the coffee my stool went from dark to yellowish then green and one time had what feels like spasming gallbladder . It is like my body doesn't know how to be off caffeine. I also think estrogen dominance is at play just started my period at day 25..so short cycle maybe anovulatory. So my crashes most happen at 10-11 am how can I prevent that? Just keep putting food in my mouth no breaks? and what do people think of this feeling in my brain?
 
M

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I think you're looking outward too much for answers to your anxiety. You're relying on other people to solve the problem for you - hoping they'll tell you to do this, or try that, and maybe that will be your salvation. I don't think fine-tuning what you eat and drink really gets to the heart of it, though obviously you do have to be careful with things like caffeine. But you don't need me to tell you that, or anyone else on this forum.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but, coming from an anxiety sufferer myself, I'm aware of how easily one can fall into this trap. I have fallen into it myself sometimes. You need to really look into yourself, and stop relying too much on what other people recommend, or for other people to tell you your doing something wrong.

This comes from a good place. You're one of any who suffer from anxiety, and you have my utmost sympathy and hope for your improvement.

You can use forums like this as a substitute for true self-knowledge, or true self-examination. I believe quite strongly that we know what's best for ourselves but often neglect it, or fail to trust it, and so instead use discussion forums about health as a kind of crutch. So what happens is we forget to get in touch with what's really best for us, individually, and no one on any forum knows the answer to that. It's so important not to lose that special instinct.

Sorry to sort of offload this onto you. It's been on my mind a lot today and you're my first victim! I really wish you the best health, but I just think you, and many others, need to develop a closer relationship with your own needs, and not jump onto an Internet forum as soon as you experience some difficulty (which, of course, is a trap I have fallen into many a time).
 
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InChristAlone

InChristAlone

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I think you're looking outward too much for answers to your anxiety. You're relying on other people to solve the problem for you - hoping they'll tell you to do this, or try that, and maybe that will be your salvation. I don't think fine-tuning what you eat and drink really gets to the heart of it, though obviously you do have to be careful with things like caffeine. But you don't need me to tell you that, or anyone else on this forum.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but, coming from an anxiety sufferer myself, I'm aware of how easily one can fall into this trap. I have fallen into it myself sometimes. You need to really look into yourself, and stop relying too much on what other people recommend, or for other people to tell you your doing something wrong.

This comes from a good place. You're one of any who suffer from anxiety, and you have my utmost sympathy and hope for your improvement.

You can use forums like this as a substitute for true self-knowledge, or true self-examination. I believe quite strongly that we know what's best for ourselves but often neglect it, or fail to trust it, and so instead use discussion forums about health as a kind of crutch. So what happens is we forget to get in touch with what's really best for us, individually, and no one on any forum knows the answer to that. It's so important not to lose that special instinct.

Sorry to sort of offload this onto you. It's been on my mind a lot today and you're my first victim! I really wish you the best health, but I just think you, and many others, need to develop a closer relationship with your own needs, and not jump onto an Internet forum as soon as you experience some difficulty (which, of course, is a trap I have fallen into many a time).

Thank-you for your thoughts, I don't take them as judgmental as I see exactly what you are saying and have thought this many times. And I would completely agree with you if I had not had this huge crash a couple weeks ago!! I've been through hell and back it feels like. And it has put a strain on my family. Maybe I feel guilty for having to take time out for myself. That I'm not being a good Mom or wife.

I do think rapidly falling blood glucose is big cause of panic attacks, just not sure how I ended up in such a strong loop of it. I'm suspecting high cortisol in the morning sensitizes me to these post breakfast responses. I don't think it is all in my thoughts or whatever either. I have in the past, and I came a long way in supporting my mental health, then it just seemed to fly out the window so quickly when large amounts of adrenaline are coursing through my body. And I saw clearly how someone might develop a 'mental illness' because of this.
 
M

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Is it possible you've developed a sort of phobia of having low blood glucose? Which magnifies the general unpleasantness of it and sets off the panic?

Maybe not, but it's something I've suspected in myself at least. Hunger is generally rather distressing, but when you associate it with the possibility of a panic attack it's even more so.
 
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InChristAlone

InChristAlone

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Is it possible you've developed a sort of phobia of having low blood glucose? Which magnifies the general unpleasantness of it and sets off the panic?

Maybe not, but it's something I've suspected in myself at least. Hunger is generally rather distressing, but when you associate it with the possibility of a panic attack it's even more so.
Yes I think I do have a phobia of the crash happening. But I've had this happen a hundred times before! And I could go on with my life and not have it happen again and again and again. I mean I did get in a loop of anxiety back before I was on progesterone and had no idea what was going on with me, but I recovered a lot. I did stop the progesterone this past month and I think it was a very bad idea. because I'm in the same loop again.
 

PeatThemAll

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Have you considered tapering off slowly with a "cheater" alternative? In my case, I'm using white+green tea ad libitum (if needed). Still a caffeine hit, but the other compounds smoothen the ride. Also, carbs every 3 hours until not feeling like it anymore. I've basically got to retrain my body so that it can let go of its IF adaptations (the food will come, soon and often), and this being a preferred alternative to not even feeling the adrenaline/cortisol crash until it's too late (another IF "bonus").
 
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InChristAlone

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Have you considered tapering off slowly with a "cheater" alternative? In my case, I'm using white+green tea ad libitum (if needed). Still a caffeine hit, but the other compounds smoothen the ride. Also, carbs every 3 hours until not feeling like it anymore. I've basically got to retrain my body so that it can let go of its IF adaptations (the food will come, soon and often), and this being a preferred alternative to not even feeling the adrenaline/cortisol crash until it's too late (another IF "bonus").
Thank-you no I have not considered any caffeine at this point, I have to get off it. It is a wellknown panic attack trigger and at this point I have to fight to completely heal from the panic disorder. But I'm convinced a lot of it is just the expectation of that hit and when it is not there that is stressful. Also the expectation of my BG rapidly dropping after food. I did do a test of this, I measured right after a banana it hit 130, literally 20 minutes later it dropped back down to my normal between meal BG. I've heard this is the trigger. It is not necessarily that I get low BG it is just that my amygdala senses the rapid fall and sends off an alarm bell. But usually when I check it during episodes its very normal, sometimes it really is the jitters from not eating enough though.
 

WestCoaster

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If your BG is dropping rapidly, that probably means your producing too much insulin and your body isn't making efficient use of it. That is common with high carb/sugar diet, which sounds to me like you've done what too many others due when engaging in new diets (even paleo), you swung the pendulum too much in one direction. Your electrolytes might also be slightly out of balance. Try adding a wee bit of salt to water to see if that helps.

You have to keep something in mind, your experience is a very common experience as to what others post on paleo forums (for reasons to switching to paleo). They come from a background of uncontrolled blood sugar whether it rises or falls too rapidly, eating or drinking sweet things, lethargy, anxiety etc.. This on all accounts is usually corrected by simply eating whole foods, but that would include eliminating processed forms of sugar and OJ, and possibly milk. OJ spikes insulin, as does milk, and so does processed sugar. It doesn't hurt to take breaks from coffee every now and again, but after 15 days if that was indeed the issue, it should have resolved. Remember, the body likes balance, so that doesn't mean consuming foods or drinks regularly that cause insulin to either spike or
 

Orion

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Thank-you no I have not considered any caffeine at this point, I have to get off it. It is a wellknown panic attack trigger and at this point I have to fight to completely heal from the panic disorder. But I'm convinced a lot of it is just the expectation of that hit and when it is not there that is stressful. Also the expectation of my BG rapidly dropping after food. I did do a test of this, I measured right after a banana it hit 130, literally 20 minutes later it dropped back down to my normal between meal BG. I've heard this is the trigger. It is not necessarily that I get low BG it is just that my amygdala senses the rapid fall and sends off an alarm bell. But usually when I check it during episodes its very normal, sometimes it really is the jitters from not eating enough though.

When the liver doesn't hold enough sugar, you will crash. PUFA block the livers ability to store sugar and also affect the pancreas and insulin, along with adrenaline/cortisol you can get into a vicious cycle of ups and downs.

Listen to RP talk about this: https://www.toxinless.com/kmud-100917-sugar-1.mp3
 
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InChristAlone

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If your BG is dropping rapidly, that probably means your producing too much insulin and your body isn't making efficient use of it. That is common with high carb/sugar diet, which sounds to me like you've done what too many others due when engaging in new diets (even paleo), you swung the pendulum too much in one direction. Your electrolytes might also be slightly out of balance. Try adding a wee bit of salt to water to see if that helps.

You have to keep something in mind, your experience is a very common experience as to what others post on paleo forums (for reasons to switching to paleo). They come from a background of uncontrolled blood sugar whether it rises or falls too rapidly, eating or drinking sweet things, lethargy, anxiety etc.. This on all accounts is usually corrected by simply eating whole foods, but that would include eliminating processed forms of sugar and OJ, and possibly milk. OJ spikes insulin, as does milk, and so does processed sugar. It doesn't hurt to take breaks from coffee every now and again, but after 15 days if that was indeed the issue, it should have resolved. Remember, the body likes balance, so that doesn't mean consuming foods or drinks regularly that cause insulin to either spike or
I have been on a 50% carb diet for years! Also high dairy diet for years as well. This didn't start happening until my menstrual cycle came back post partum and I had high anxiety and my first ever panic attack during the night. My diet actually contains a lot less processed sugars as it used to. I used to have way more soda, I quit all soda months ago. I have some OJ in the morning then breakfast. I've heard of many people having to come off simple sugars though to overcome this. But as far as I can see my insulin is doing what it needs to do... just very fast.
 
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InChristAlone

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kitback

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It sounds like this has been a real problem since you quit the coffee. I know you are thinking it is due to caffeine withdrawal. But Haidut posted a study not too long ago showing that coffee was shown to decrease cortisol. I wonder if quitting the coffee has caused your cortisol level to rise. Cortisol levels are at their highest in the early morning so maybe the coffee was helping to decrease your cortisol. Perhaps you are having more trouble managing your blood sugar because your cortisol is elevated?

Below is a link to that thread which contains a link to the study.

Here is Haidut's summary of the info:

"What the study says is that caffeine is neutral - neither raises nor lowers cortisol, while coffee contains a compound that lowers cortisol synthesis. Some other studies have found that caffeine raises ACTH, but this will happen with any substance that improves metabolism without enough nutrients. Thyroid does the same."

I think this is why many people attribute the" jitters" to coffee whereas it is more related to not having enough food along with the coffee to compensate for the increase in metabolism. I usually have a large mug each night before bed, but it is always after a meal with plenty of sugar and half-and-half. It relaxes me and helps me get to sleep.

Coffee Inhibits Cortisol Synthesis
 

TurtleNeck

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Hey janelle! You helped me so I can help you. I believe its way too many fluids and potassium. Especially in the morning when you need to concentrate your internal fluids. Read matt stones book eat for heat and see how lots of liquid and caffiene and such can cause a stress state. I cant drink OJ because of the potassium content.
 
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InChristAlone

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It sounds like this has been a real problem since you quit the coffee. I know you are thinking it is due to caffeine withdrawal. But Haidut posted a study not too long ago showing that coffee was shown to decrease cortisol. I wonder if quitting the coffee has caused your cortisol level to rise. Cortisol levels are at their highest in the early morning so maybe the coffee was helping to decrease your cortisol. Perhaps you are having more trouble managing your blood sugar because your cortisol is elevated?

Below is a link to that thread which contains a link to the study.

Here is Haidut's summary of the info:

"What the study says is that caffeine is neutral - neither raises nor lowers cortisol, while coffee contains a compound that lowers cortisol synthesis. Some other studies have found that caffeine raises ACTH, but this will happen with any substance that improves metabolism without enough nutrients. Thyroid does the same."

I think this is why many people attribute the" jitters" to coffee whereas it is more related to not having enough food along with the coffee to compensate for the increase in metabolism. I usually have a large mug each night before bed, but it is always after a meal with plenty of sugar and half-and-half. It relaxes me and helps me get to sleep.

Coffee Inhibits Cortisol Synthesis
Yes I think the brain feeling is high cortisol as eating can really help relieve it. But seems when I wake up with it, it just builds and builds until the adrenaline rush happens. Distraction seems to be the only thing working to relieve it. That and tapping when I get overwhelmed. If I could go back to how I was functioning before I started coffee again over the summer I would, something flipped in my brain and I'm trying to calm it all down.
 
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InChristAlone

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Hey janelle! You helped me so I can help you. I believe its way too many fluids and potassium. Especially in the morning when you need to concentrate your internal fluids. Read matt stones book eat for heat and see how lots of liquid and caffiene and such can cause a stress state. I cant drink OJ because of the potassium content.
Thanks! Yeah I've read his books and he is for sure not a fan of juice, soda and coffee. Especially in the morning. I will first try making my OJ really salty and not have it by itself, I will eat right away. Good tip!
 

TurtleNeck

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Thanks! Yeah I've read his books and he is for sure not a fan of juice, soda and coffee. Especially in the morning. I will first try making my OJ really salty and not have it by itself, I will eat right away. Good tip!

Maybe we need to take tianeptine together! I am really considering it
 
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InChristAlone

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TurtleNeck

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Yeah I should try it too for the days I am high anxiety.

It seems to be a long term thing tho. not really for acute. Seems to work on serotonin and glutamine and fixing the HPA axis. Helps the amydgala too. Waiting for a doctor or something first so I can be monitored. The days of blindly taking things are over lol
 
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InChristAlone

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It seems to be a long term thing tho. not really for acute. Seems to work on serotonin and glutamine and fixing the HPA axis. Helps the amydgala too. Waiting for a doctor or something first so I can be monitored. The days of blindly taking things are over lol
Anything that will help my amygdala I'm all ears! Yeah seems some of these things work better over several days. I'm on cypro at the moment just want to get sleep back in track so hopefully that brings down morning cortisol.
 

TurtleNeck

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Anything that will help my amygdala I'm all ears! Yeah seems some of these things work better over several days. I'm on cypro at the moment just want to get sleep back in track so hopefully that brings down morning cortisol.
I'll pm you all the things I know about it
 

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