10-day long panic (+visit to ER) seemingly shut down with potassium

[Blossom]

This started around the time I started taking cocoa (doesn't copper use up potassium?), some selenium, and honestly I don't remember what else.

I’d personally try stopping the cocoa for a while and see if you feel better. I don’t tolerate cocoa at all which is a shame because it’s delicious.

But here's what I don't understand: wouldn't serious dehydration show up somewhere in my electrolyte bloodwork? Electrolytes on paper come back normal but I guess it's not the best thing to look at. Also I don't like, go days without water or anything. I still have multiple cups of fluid one way or another every day at my worst.

Did they check BUN, creatinine and the ratio in a blood chemistry test?

 

[ThazMYchocolate]

Oh, another huge thing that helps me when I feel "stuck" meaning heavy, mentally stuck in anxiety etc is taking something to raise my Nitric Oxide, L-Citrulline works well.

Forgive my ignorance, but why would raising nitric oxide help anxiety?

edit: I googled it and thank you for mentioning this

 

[undecided0]

I’d personally try stopping the cocoa for a while and see if you feel better. I don’t tolerate cocoa at all which is a shame because it’s delicious.

Did they check BUN, creatinine and the ratio in a blood chemistry test?

Yes, was normal

 

[undecided0]

Interesting.

I had migraines 24/7, with aura, since mid 2018 until 2021.

Triggers: anything that triggered the insulin response (anything sweet and easily absorbed and with a high Glycemic load). Also coffee or decaf coffee.

I noticed that since I started taking thiamine and, along with it potassium, the migraine headache lessened, and my heart symptoms too. When taking about 4000 mg per day, spread out in 4 doses, the migraine symptoms are at bay. I take the other electrolytes in higher doses too, especially calcium as dicalcium phosphate.

If I want to eat something sweet, I take it with a lot of potassium (1-2 grams + the usual dicalcium phosphate + small amount of magnesium), and I don’t have a migraine+heart symptoms. In fact, my heart symptoms + migraine seem to stem from the same cause. And my potassium levels always showed to be within normal range.

Potassium depletion due to other deficiencies or other drugs will cause arrhythmias in some people.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.119.315641

BUT, I believe I’ve been thiamine deficient for years (hence the awesome results of TTTFD treatment in my case), and thiamine deficiency leads to intracellular potassium wasting in tissues, despite having normal blood levels of potassium.

Thiamine Deficiency Causes Intracellular Potassium Wasting - Hormones Matter

Whilst I always suspected a link between potassium and thiamine, I hadn't found research elucidating the mechanisms. Thiamine deficiency causes intracellular potassium wasting.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Btw, right when I became completely bedridden in 2016/2017, I would have many episodes of what could be called “panic attacks”, without the panic, because I was very zen. What was I doing wrong back then?
I had been taking high doses of magnesium for about a month, without adequate calcium or thiamine.
Magnesium supplementation increases the need for thiamine and the thiamine deficiency became worse.

The “panic” attacks symptoms stopped when I reduced my magnesium intake to 300 mg/day.

OK I bit the bullet and took some Thiamine HCl. I have tried Thiamine a long time ago and it was a good experience although I don't remember why I stopped it. It's been a while since and I feel warmer for sure, and I can see things in front of me better, in the sense that life feels a bit more real. Anxiety a bit better

 

[undecided0]

@undecided0 what potassium did you take?

Sorry, it was coconut water

 

[Blossom]

Yes, was normal

That’s great!

 

[HeyThere]

Forgive my ignorance, but why would raising nitric oxide help anxiety?

edit: I googled it and thank you for mentioning this

OK I bit the bullet and took some Thiamine HCl. I have tried Thiamine a long time ago and it was a good experience although I don't remember why I stopped it. It's been a while since and I feel warmer for sure, and I can see things in front of me better, in the sense that life feels a bit more real. Anxiety a bit better

Yes, it's like this inner strength that makes vision clearer, mind clearer, etc.

I write notes on my vitamin bottles of what to take with what, what not to take with what, the amounts, etc. Really helps with taking vitamins and minerals the proper way.

 

[ThinPicking]

Thanks. OK you're right, it seemed to be helped with any large fluid intake. I eat meats, fruits, vegetables, little to no dairy because gut issues, but since this started I'm kinda eating whatever because of the stress. Please if you have any clues I'm grasping at straws here. I am in my early 20s, male. Sometimes I eat around noon and sometimes at night, both, there is no set schedule honestly.
today I upped the calcium to see if that will help calm nerves

Lacking some requested detail here but I'll run with it.

It's been kinda burned into my brain that too much liquid is bad for metabolic rate so I didn't feel bad about not drinking much fluids over the past few years.

Without a clear signal for "bulk drinking" it is, so good.

I really don't feel thirsty ever. I used to be a heavy nicotine salt abuser and hitting my vape when thirsty would make me not thirsty, so maybe some weird brain rewiring happened. I think you both seem to be close to understanding my issue.

If you're still vaping, switch to a 100% vegetable glycerin base immediately or stop. My own experience with this is that propylene glycol has some bizarre osmotic and/or metabolic effects. VG is more forgiving in this regard and doesn't get metabolised. Even then, moderate it. Don't abuse it.

But here's what I don't understand: wouldn't serious dehydration show up somewhere in my electrolyte bloodwork? Electrolytes on paper come back normal but I guess it's not the best thing to look at. Also I don't like, go days without water or anything. I still have multiple cups of fluid one way or another every day at my worst.

Is the solution to continue consuming a lot of fluids? I'd guess that pure water is probably the worst for this.. but I'm thinking lots of salted OJ coconut water? Magnesium supps at night and high calcium intake?

Right now I managed to stop the panic again with water.

No and I reckon the way you're drinking is just as if not more important than the amount. There's supposed to be a circadian and probably intraday rhythm to vasopressin (and related hormones), from my own folly I know it can become distorted.

Without more detail about your behaviour you're going to have to experiment with this a bit. I don't know if you took any of the other advice here, I hope not and that you're still off supplements.

For your experiment, if I were you I'd start here. Fill a 500ml container with water and put a moderate pinch of salt in it. Call this your "maintenance fluid" and don't drink any water outside of it. So you know for sure what you've had. Anything else you drink should have some sugar, honey or molasses in it and a smaller, tiny even, pinch of salt in it per 250ml. Any change in your experiment should fall on a different day, separated by restful sleep. Be prepared to bear some of this "panic" or angst. Your hormones need some time to pattern around your behavioural changes.

If you wake up thirsty, take a few sips from your maintenance to quench it a bit. To the point you're not uncomfortably thirsty. Sip, don't gulp. Sip, don't chug. But preferably you won't be at all and can proceed straight to breakfast. Chase whatever you normally eat with a couple of sips. Enough to help your last bite leave your oesophagus, not enough to wash it through your proximal stomach. Where the middle contracts and the second autonomic part of digestion is supposed to happen.

Wait at least one hour for your stomach contents to redistribute to the distal. Repeat the process. Over a few days you should be noticing your water requirements and angst go down and any strong thirst sensation should fall in the second half of the day. Any "bulk drinking" in response to that should be at least an hour away from your meals and moderated to needs. You'll be more mindful of it.

You could also do this in reverse. I know @LLight likes to get his fluids in the morning. I'm intending to have that discussion in a different thread at some point.

 

[LLight]

@ThinPicking indeed, I was experimenting drinking only in the morning to maximize vasopressin in the evening as it seems to be important for sleep. I'm not currently though but when I was doing it, I noticed that it seemed to help falling asleep and not having to pee during the night.

I didn't follow the whole thread so I'm not sure what this is about, sorry, but vasopressin could be important for potassium absorption.

 

[undecided0]

Lacking some requested detail here but I'll run with it.


Without a clear signal for "bulk drinking" it is, so good.


If you're still vaping, switch to a 100% vegetable glycerin base immediately or stop. My own experience with this is that propylene glycol has some bizarre osmotic and/or metabolic effects. VG is more forgiving in this regard and doesn't get metabolised. Even then, moderate it. Don't abuse it.


No and I reckon the way you're drinking is just as if not more important than the amount. There's supposed to be a circadian and probably intraday rhythm to vasopressin (and related hormones), from my own folly I know it can become distorted.

Without more detail about your behaviour you're going to have to experiment with this a bit. I don't know if you took any of the other advice here, I hope not and that you're still off supplements.

For your experiment, if I were you I'd start here. Fill a 500ml container with water and put a moderate pinch of salt in it. Call this your "maintenance fluid" and don't drink any water outside of it. So you know for sure what you've had. Anything else you drink should have some sugar, honey or molasses in it and a smaller, tiny even, pinch of salt in it per 250ml. Any change in your experiment should fall on a different day, separated by restful sleep. Be prepared to bear some of this "panic" or angst. Your hormones need some time to pattern around your behavioural changes.

If you wake up thirsty, take a few sips from your maintenance to quench it a bit. To the point you're not uncomfortably thirsty. Sip, don't gulp. Sip, don't chug. But preferably you won't be at all and can proceed straight to breakfast. Chase whatever you normally eat with a couple of sips. Enough to help your last bite leave your oesophagus, not enough to wash it through your proximal stomach. Where the middle contracts and the second autonomic part of digestion is supposed to happen.

Wait at least one hour for your stomach contents to redistribute to the distal. Repeat the process. Over a few days you should be noticing your water requirements and angst go down and any strong thirst sensation should fall in the second half of the day. Any "bulk drinking" in response to that should be at least an hour away from your meals and moderated to needs. You'll be more mindful of it.

You could also do this in reverse. I know @LLight likes to get his fluids in the morning. I'm intending to have that discussion in a different thread at some point.

Thank you. I will try this. I did really well last night and the anxiety came back today somewhat strong. It seems like the anxiety gets much better at night consistently, do you have any clues?

 

[ThazMYchocolate]

Thank you. I will try this. I did really well last night and the anxiety came back today somewhat strong. It seems like the anxiety gets much better at night consistently, do you have any clue

Cortisol spikes in the morning, if it is really high it can bring on anxiety/mood swings. I used to have this every day (until starting thyroid meds) and I started being afraid of interacting with people in the morning because I knew my emotions were out of control.

 

[ThinPicking]

Thank you. I will try this. I did really well last night and the anxiety came back today somewhat strong. It seems like the anxiety gets much better at night consistently, do you have any clues?

Not without the detail requested. It depends what you're doing, every second of every minute from when you wake up. Begin your fluid experiment as described and become mindful of every aspect of your behaviour. Or try something else, up to you.

Whatever's going on here I'm wagering simple (in hindsight) behavioural adjustment is your means to fix it. Pretty sure I could induce a kind of GAD in myself again just by being mindless with fluids and it was always worse in the morning.

 

[undecided0]

Not without the detail requested. It depends what you're doing, every second of every minute from when you wake up. Begin your fluid experiment as described and become mindful of every aspect of your behaviour. Or try something else, up to you.

Whatever's going on here I'm wagering simple (in hindsight) behavioural adjustment is your means to fix it. Pretty sure I could induce a kind of GAD in myself again just by being mindless with fluids and it was always worse in the morning.

Sorry it's just because the panic has been going on so long and I have not been mindful of what I'm doing, being a near panic all day kinda fogs up my memory lol.
It's so strange because I've been fatigued for so long and since i've had crazy anxiety I've been at the same time more lucid-feeling and have more energy.. but thats stress hormones for you I guess.

I've been in a panic state highly similar to this years ago, and it subsided after about 2 weeks, so I'm hoping that with time it'll pass. All I know right now is high fluid intake stops it for whatever reason. I will try your recommendations and see what happens. thanks.

 

[undecided0]

Not without the detail requested. It depends what you're doing, every second of every minute from when you wake up. Begin your fluid experiment as described and become mindful of every aspect of your behaviour. Or try something else, up to you.

Whatever's going on here I'm wagering simple (in hindsight) behavioural adjustment is your means to fix it. Pretty sure I could induce a kind of GAD in myself again just by being mindless with fluids and it was always worse in the morning.

Hey, so things are better but still some background anxiety. Magnesium supplementation (a mineral I don't get much of lately) helped some and salt water (the way you recommended it) some more. This combination is helping I think and I'm not drinking massive amounts of liquids anymore. I'm also getting windows of high heat production and no anxiety much more frequently. I will maintain this for a while. Thanks

 

[undecided0]

Ironically, high potassium liquids now make me feel worse. So strange how this all works.

 

[HeyThere]

Ironically, high potassium liquids now make me feel worse. So strange how this all works.

I have the same issue with potassium. Have for years. it makes me feel completely off and sick if I take any of it!? I'm ok USUALLY with one banana once in a while though.

 

[June]

OK I bit the bullet and took some Thiamine HCl. I have tried Thiamine a long time ago and it was a good experience although I don't remember why I stopped it. It's been a while since and I feel warmer for sure, and I can see things in front of me better, in the sense that life feels a bit more real. Anxiety a bit better

I had experimented with Thiamin HCI and it ended badly for me. I found out I had hydrogen sulfide SIBO cause low sulfur diet helps me. My body doesn't convert sulfur well. Might explain things.

 

[ThazMYchocolate]

I had experimented with Thiamin HCI and it ended badly for me. I found out I had hydrogen sulfide SIBO cause low sulfur diet helps me. My body doesn't convert sulfur well. Might explain things.

idk but every time I hear about someone that doesn't do well with sulfur I think of molybdenum which helps to break down sulfites. Not sure if that is the same problem you are having though.

 

[June]

idk but every time I hear about someone that doesn't do well with sulfur I think of molybdenum which helps to break down sulfites. Not sure if that is the same problem you are having though.

I'm not sure. I plugged in my DNA results to be analyzed and I don't think I have any genetic mutations that make it tough for me to convert sulfur to sulfate. But I did have physiological damage from benzo withdrawal and antibiotics, so I think this genetics test isn't helpful in diagnosing small intestinal overgrowths. My stagnant MMC (from benzo withdrawals and floxed by antibiotics for years) could have caused the hydrogen sulfide SIBO to take over. So maybe I need to get my vagus nerve and MMC working again to resolve this.

 

[ThazMYchocolate]

I'm not sure. I plugged in my DNA results to be analyzed and I don't think I have any genetic mutations that make it tough for me to convert sulfur to sulfate. But I did have physiological damage from benzo withdrawal and antibiotics, so I think this genetics test isn't helpful in diagnosing small intestinal overgrowths. My stagnant MMC (from benzo withdrawals and floxed by antibiotics for years) could have caused the hydrogen sulfide SIBO to take over. So maybe I need to get my vagus nerve and MMC working again to resolve this.

ahh benzo belly. sorry to hear.