Wow-what A Difference!

[Peata]

Thanks, Peata. I'm not going to bother with Progest-E then. Sounds like we are similar about what causes the anxiety. I can't help it with academics. I am not a normal learner so academics are stressful for me. Period. But I need them to do what I want. But some people on this forum seem very adept with measuring-take this if you are taking that, etc. I can't be bothered with that. I wish we didn't have to order gelatin. Even that is a hassle.

I do 1500 mg of niacinamide and it is PERFECT. I am compulsive a bit, so when I like something, I tend to want to do more, but the 1500 of niacinamide seems perfect. Also, more dose means you run out more quickly which means you spend more. So I'd rather just take minimum.

I am guessing 1500 total of B1 might be perfect for me. All at once. I will see. I am not motivated to take 1500 3 times a day. I don't want to spend that much money on stupid pills. It may work to take the same amount split through the day, but I won't remember to do that. Too much hassle. I didn't leave to go get more, but if I do, maybe I will take more and see what happens. I'm not sure; I will see. Again, I think more, means you think you need more, then you take more, and spend more. Not excited about that idea.

I would absolutely NOT take this later in the day. I don't take niacinamide later in the day either. It keeps me from sleeping. I like getting all of my supplements in first thing. But again, it may work very differently for others.

I also hate ordering gelatin, so sometimes I just get Knox or the store-brand of Knox (it's a couple dollars cheaper). I try to get in one Tablespoon (or packet) of gelatin per day. Sometimes I take 2 or 3 T.

And yes, I hate using up so many supplements so fast. The niacinamide seemed like it was gone in no time.

I'm OK with ordering online usually, especially if I can get more than one thing I need at one place, and free shipping. But it would be nice if everything was available to just pick up locally.

Looking forward to hearing more of your progress. Keep up the good work.

 

[caroline]

I did really like Dan Wich's site, but when we were going to order, we didn't have enough product to order on the site so it was just easier to get it elsewhere. His site is wonderful.

Oh, and the way I am feeling now--THIS feels like the state in which it is optimal to exercise. It does NOT feel sensible to me to exercise to try and attain this state. Therefore, now that I am not nutty about exercise anymore and don't believe exercise creates energy, but in fact, that energetic state is what is optimal in order to exercise, I have not done much b/c I don't often find myself in the proper energetic state where it feels conducive to exercise. I might eat a tad more b/c I think this supplement seems to need more food. I have a feeling that 1500 in each amount might be my magic number. Not more, not less. I don't really get the point of doing more. I think it will be overkill and then you risk messing up your nutrients. I would be happier taking even less but it seems like this amount is optimal. Will have to test to see if it's the case. Niacinamide is pretty secure at this amount for me. But will see about the B. Still feel a bit like I want to jump out of my skin, but I am not distressed. And I have already done 30 problems easily and quickly, and these are the harder ones.

 

[caroline]

Had more food. Coffee with milk and sugar, a bit of OJ, and some meat, as well as some coconut oil. Now I feel better. Also, I am now increasing my amount of red meat. It is a total hassle to try and get enough protein without this. Two egg yolks does very little to get me my protein. And I don't drink gallons of milk and cheese does not work for me. So starting today, I am going to up my meat amount. I look at it like the carrots--not optimal due to the whole tryptophan thing, but super optimal in terms of the nourishment, fats, and high amounts of protein for relatively little volume that it provides. I am also eating a lot more coconut oil during the day as well. Fat has never been an issue for me. I am not an advocate of reduced fat anything, although lower fat milk seems to be way easier for me to digest. But I don't need to get fat from my milk if I am getting it elsewhere. I feel like the supplements are like rocket fuel, but that in order to support them properly, I need heavy-duty nutrition.

And I am not feeling like I will want to take more than 1500 of the B1. I will see, but I don't need to be greedy. If I am clearer and not in a fogged stupor, I will let time and diet take care of the rest. More than that, to me, seems like pushing it unnecessarily. Niacinamide, when I have taken more doesn't seem to be problematic, but if a lower dose works, why take more.

 

[caroline]

We are eating so much gelatin that the Knox would be too expensive. My husband eats a lot since he eats so much meat (probably up to 2 pounds in a day), and I am eating a lot since I reduced my meat consumption. The Knox, where we live, at least, is quite expensive.

 

[caroline]

Have a minor sort of ache in my head--wouldn't call it a headache, but I think it is the B1 as nothing else I did today was different. Don't really want to eat anymore food so will see if it passes. It is not getting in the way of anything--however, might be an indication that I could try less of the B1 at once.

My goals here are the following: the first major one was to manage anxiety via diet and fix whatever is off and causing this imbalance. This is coming along nicely, and biggest improvement since I can remember. Sleep was another. I am now sleeping. I wasn't before. So also a huge improvement. The second major issue was/is to increase my cognitive capabilities. Still have to see on this one, but definitely feel some improvements and certainly not declining. Again, need more track record to see how this goes.

As for the rest, since the world seems so focused on looks and other qualities somehow seem sidestepped for this, yes, it is nice to look more youthful and be thinner since this seems to be some sort of societal marker for success and affects job status, etc. I find it stupid and ludicrous. Someone made up what is supposed to be favorable and I really don't see how that matters. Also, if one is born with certain traits, while it may be nice to look at, like a nice painting, I frankly don't see why anyone should get special credit for this.

If one is independently wealthy, then unless they are concerned with garnering these sorts of accolades from others (ie. you look "good" you look "young"--meaning, aging is somehow negative (umm, isnt aging preferable to death? At least, I think so...I always think it's funny when people say that b/c what they are implying is that to look as though one has lived for a while, is somehow disagreeable. I think this is very funny and absurd.), then yes, this is positive also. Frankly, I don't care if others think I look young, pretty, old, thin, etc. I want to be able to perform to my capabilities and feel as though I am accomplishing what makes me feel fulfilled. As far as I can see, so far, this way of eating seems to be improving all the above.

 

[caroline]

I got to thinking about dosage. The niacinamide seems to really be working at the dose I found.

However, in re: to the B1, I was thinking that I need to try more to really see. Back before I was in school, I read for actual enjoyment. I read a lot of Jung, re: the shadow--i.e. what we do that we aren't aware of, that relates to patterns, etc. Anyway, I started thinking that it is quite possible, that the larger amount of B1 more times a day, may really help my cognitive function and that I actually am RESISTING this b/c part of me is comfortable feeling less capable and incapacitated. This may be the case, so I am going to presume myself guilty until otherwise proven, and am going to experiment with more B1 throughout the day. Bc it is possible that it may be even more helpful and I am unconsciously resisting improvement. While this all may sound like gobbledygook, all I need to know is that I can't be completely trusted to do what's in my best interest esp. when it comes to old patterns. Even if it's a negative one, if you are comfortable with something, you can be resistant to change, even if the change seems like an improvement. Long way of saying I took another 750 just a bit ago. I didn't have more than that left and do want to do a smaller amount. So we will see how that goes.

 

[caroline]

It's working. 750 seems to work just as well. But I am less jumpy. Also, I think you really need to eat a lot of everything to fuel this properly. Otherwise it feels like the generator is running on high, but not connected to much. I'm going to go get more in a bit. Clearly my suspicion that more was not helpful was not informed, and probably tinted by resistance to improvement. Ignoring it. Done probably 120 problems now without much effort. Except for the rate time distance ones. HATE those. Reminds me of physics--another miserable experience taken on while brain was functioning sub-optimally.

 

[caroline]

So yesterday, I did not notice ANYTHING from the B1. Only did it once in the a.m. However, I switched things around. I only had 500 mg. of Niacinamide to start with. Same thing happened that continues to happen when I have just 500 mg. I feel as if I am missing something, try and make up for it, and then it doesn't work right. So maybe this had something to do with it.

Then I took more niacinamide, but didn't have the same effect. This morning, I took my niacinamide immediately. I actually took 3000 mg. b/c since my test is coming up, I want to see what dosage I can go to that will ensure I stay calm without knocking me out. I also took the 1500 mg. of B1. To be honest, I am not sure if the B1 is actually working, b/c I started feeling a rush from the niacinamide before even taking any B1. I also made sure I did two egg yolks. So we will see...Also, I took a whole B1 capsule (5 mg of B6), whereas yesterday, I only took 1/2.

I want to make sure I am calm when I take my exam. I don't want to be frantic and manic or nervous. Yesterday, I ate a lot of gelatin in the morning, but no egg, no meat, etc. So it is hard to say what was different. Also, I chewed the B1 instead of swallowing it, which is what I did on the day I noticed it. (I swallowed the tablets--did not chew them.)

It will be interesting to see what happens. I purposely took 3,000 mg. of niacinamide, as I said, b/c I want to see just what amount will really induce calm. Also, I think the rush of energy the day before, AND going to bed too late also might have had a negative effect the next day So the jury is still out on the B1. I may fare best without it and just using the niacinamide. Will see how it goes today. However, I did do probably 200 math problems yesterday without a lot of effort and I also notice my ability to "listen" to silence (i.e. meditation) seems to be improving.

Also, slept with the overhead light on and I have to say, I sleep great with it on. It feels very weird to do this, but I sleep well with it.

 

[caroline]

OH, another interesting thing. So I HATE clothing shopping, but love the Goodwill. Yesterday I went there b/c I wanted to know if I was imagining that I seem to have become miraculously smaller. I tried on a few pairs of jeans and sure enough, I am wearing very small jeans that wouldn't have fit before. I was fitting into like size 26 comfortably (only problem in some cases is that since I have long legs, things sometimes are too short in the rise). This was not the case before. Same with shirts. I am wearing much smaller. However, my chest size irritatingly remains the same, so that is still an issue. Everything else is smaller. This is annoying to me simply b/c it is much easier to find clothes without a big chest. Everything is made for tiny people and people with little arms. Chest never seems to get small. I know lots of people who get smaller and lose their chests. Not me. In all the zero carb, low carb, etc., I have never been this tiny. And generally I become very nervous when this happens but I am fine with it. I just needed some new jeans b/c now the ones I have look funny--as in too big. Lucky I never spend more than like 7 bucks maximum on pants so I don't feel too bad about this.

On diet, I think it is important to continue the eggs. I already feel better this morning having done them, and one was not soy free b/c I ran out, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. I am not doing like 10 in a day, so some small egg yolks, even if they contain soy, I am not too worried about. As for the ground beef I did the other day, to increase my protein, I am actually not certain if I felt worse after the fact. It is a shame b/c it is SO easy to get protein this way. Again, will see.

 

[caroline]

I am wondering if what I attributed to the B1 was actually the niacinamide, working better with egg yolks. This seems like a miracle for me. Also, I feel better doing the full B complex capsule so I am going to stick with this. We went over our grocery bill, and despite my tinkering with all sorts of things, cheese, etc. that are more expensive, buying fruit (which I am not doing now), which is also expensive, our grocery bill is MUCH cheaper. Yay! That is just great. All those diets, where you have to buy grass-fed this and that, raw this and that, etc., that end up being obscenely expensive really irritate me. I really like that Peat does not promote only buying foods that the average person cannot afford. I think it is thoughtless b/c then you are operating on people's anxiety and they feel they must get x brand in order to show they care about their health. I even just settled on the Nescafe over the Trader Joe's instant, bc it is much cheaper and basically tastes the same to me. Well, I do feel like I am revving up so maybe the key is my niacinamide and that will produce some beneficial effects if I take the B1. 3,000 mg. of niacinamide in one dose and I am definitely NOT sleepy.

 

[caroline]

Jury is still out on B1. I think it may cause me negative reactions as worst, or just not have much effect. Haven't taken it today. Just the niacinamide, which as usual, when I take the proper amount for me, 1500 mg. at one time, works great.\

Began to do Buteyko-type breathing. The bag thing freaks me out, like the thyroid meds. I need it to be simple, and likely when I need it, I want to be inconspicuous. Therefore, I am just doing the breathing without any tools, bags, etc. I did the control breath test to see where I was; it appears about 40 seconds is not a problem. I just hold for a while, without tightening in my throat or anywhere (at least, I try this--have to really think about relaxing my throat,etc.) and then let go and don't do such long amount that I need to take big gasps of air.

I am doing this b/c I still feel internally exhausted; it is not a good feeling. Anxiety is a million times better, but energy is not where I would like. And I am not sure, as I stated, whether B1 is actually harmful. Maybe the energy I experienced the one day was like some sort of stress reaction. I can say with certainty that I felt like c--p the next two days.

Oh, I read this on a site--

http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Hyperventila ... _breathwas looking at a bunch for basic instructions and I found this to be very interesting...Especially the part about magnesium. Makes sense to me.

For those patients who do not have a chronic fatigue syndrome, physical exercise is extremely helpful. Take up some sort of physical activity, such as running, swimming or cycling on a daily basis to reduce your hyperventilation. Singing is also very helpful and the breathing exercises for singing are very much like those for hyperventilation, particularly breath control. The third possibility is to take up a wind instrument such as a trumpet, which again teaches breathing control and which can be helpful for hyperventilation.

The following principles apply both to non-CFS and CFS patients.

Firstly you must always breathe through your nose. This increases the amount of air which is exhaled and immediately re-inhaled and is therefore relatively rich in carbon dioxide. Mouth breathers must make a conscious effort to close their mouths always, if necessary tape your lips closed at night.

Secondly, breathe less deeply and more slowly. Initially this brings a feeling of wanting to breathe more, but this must be ignored. It is a bit like having an irritating itch and not being allowed to scratch it. Some anti-hyperventilation techniques ask you to practice breathing using your diaphragm instead of your chest. I don't see the logic of this because whether you use your diaphragm or your chest muscles, air will still be drawn into the lungs. Buteyko is similarly unconcerned about diaphragmatic breathing, so in this we agree! The results of reducing your rate of breathing are felt very quickly (within a few minutes) good positive feedback to encourage you to continue! But improvement may continue over weeks, so keep at it!

Thirdly, if you catch yourself sighing, yawning or taking a deep breath, hold your breath for a few seconds, breathe out very slowly, then start breathing slowly and shallowly again.

There is another mystery which may also be explained by hyperventilation. Virtually all of my CFS patients are magnesium deficient. Why? The body's response to a respiratory alkalosis is to pee out bicarbonate. Bicarbonate is a negatively charged ion and cannot leave without a positively charged ion. Guess which positively charged ion goes out with it? Spot on, magnesium! Magnesium deficiency may well be another indicator of hyperventilation. Taking magnesium carbonate may be very helpful (suggest 2-4 grams daily).

Anyhow, I am ready to do the breathing now, so will see how this goes. Feel fine now. I wonder what kind of tape I could use on my mouth while sleeping that wouldn't irritate my skin. It is pretty sensitive. Maybe I just just tie a bandana around my mouth...

 

[caroline]

So I did 500 mg. of B1. Will see how that goes. Maybe less is more for me. Or maybe none at all.

Also, last night, tried potato again. I put LOTS AND LOTS of coconut oil in it. Probably 7 or 8 tablespoons. I didn't wake up with noticeable joint pain. I am getting a little sick of the oats. Also, I had like 3 spoonfuls of chocolate haagen daaz. I just don't like ice cream now. I don't feel very good after eating it.

I am making an effort to drink more water. I may not be getting enough fluids. I am one of those people who is rarely thirsty. Like ever. Except when I did a lot of exercising. I do feel pretty good after that breathing. There is just this awful feeling inside me that feels like this deep fatigue that has not cleared yet. I have no idea how to explain the day I took the B1, but the after-effects were NOT good. My appetite has become very minimal. I just don't feel like eating all that much, but maybe b/c I keep myself sated, that is why Not complaining. This is an improvement over never being satiated. I will love it if I can have potatoes, bc it is yet another super cheap food. That B 1 tastes seriously disgusting. I found out that Solaray and Nature's Way are the same company . The niacinamide also tastes nasty, but usually I just swallow the capsules. Maybe feeling like crap had to do with the fact that I took them directly on my tongue. Who knows.

I find the whole edema/hypothyroid thing (I was reading Peat info on baking soda, etc) interesting. That corresponds to my observation that when food works for me I wake up feeling and looking lean. When it doesn't, I have inflammation, joint pain, and appear to be more puffed up. I wonder if this is why I seem to be looking so slim--less inflammation, less edema, etc. But WHEN IS MY ENERGY GOING TO COME BACK??? HMMM, well, I guess this requires more patience. And maybe the breathing will help.

 

[haidut]

I just wanted to quickly interject to clarify some points.

Whether anybody takes B1 only, B3 only or both I do believe they should be taken with a B complex to minimize the risk of co-depletion.
Also, the dosages of 1,500mg of either vitamin are based on clinical studies for people with specific conditions (most often neurological) and may or may not be the optimal for each person. As far as B1 is concerned, it seems that one needs at least 500mg to affect the passive transport system and get it well absorbed. If you look at the study I posted on thiamine hydrochloride absorption in humans, the dosages lower then 1,500mg had pretty peak plasma concentration curves as well as shorter half-life, and dosages lower then 500mg basically produced no effect. Based on that AND studies on using B1 for Alzheimer's, I said that it seems consistent since to get to 6,000mg-8,000mg of B1 daily, which is what the Alzheimer study used, one would need to take 1,500mg 4-5 times a day, which is what one clinical protocol for Alzheimer's calls for directly. So, the dosage of 1,500mg taken 4-5 daily is necessary to maintain plasma concentrations of B1 shown to have beneficial effect on an actual disease. It does not mean that everybody should be popping that dose 4-5 times a day indiscriminately. Personally, I have taken such doses in the past during period of very high stress or during days when I know there will be drinking involved (high dose B1 and sugar are the ultimate anti-hangover combo). However, I do NOT recommend it done on a regular basis. My recommendation would be to try and find out what dosage works best for everybody and take the minimum dosage that produces that beneficial effect. After the problem has been resolved then you should stop taking it.

A bit of digression but still related.
IMHO, ideally, long term intake of supplements should be limited to only broadly-acting things like aspirin, caffeine, thyroid, an anti-serotonin component of some kind (maybe cypro) or depleting tryptophan in other ways, vitamin E (estrogen "receptor" antagonist), and vitamin K2 (menatetrenone only). Everything else can be obtained from diet in sufficient amounts. And even those things above are just guidelines. Remember, Peat says that "context is everything", which is another way of saying that the ideal method will probably be unique to you.
Treat supplements like drugs, only take them for the minimum amount necessary and preferably only as a defense mechanism against factors in the environment that are ubiquitous and virtually impossible to avoid. Estrogenic chemicals are everywhere, so aspirin and vitamin E come in very handy. Thyroid suppressors leaking from all plastic products (BPA is also a synthetic estrogen) are also everywhere, so stimulating the thyroid is key. Carcinogens are everywhere, so aspirin and caffeine are key. Serotonin is both the cause and result of stress, and as such is virtually unavoidable in the modern world, so anything that limits its effects is very welcome - cypro and lowering tryptophan are two ways to deal with this. Finally, calcification is likely to occur with time and also electromagnetic radiation is everywhere and it acts through calcium channels. So antagonists of calcium like magnesium, or de-calcifying agents like K2 and cypro are some ways to deal with that.
I think you get the idea. I don't like the statement "everything in moderation" b/c to me it is just a very good way to conceal ignorance on some issues hence the moderation as a defense mechanism. I prefer the expression "everything with purpose". Know what you are taking, and why, and when to stop.
Just my 2c

 

[Peata]

I cut out the high B1 (500 mg. and up) the last couple days because I feel it helped me get over a hump and get going with things the last month or so, and now it seems like motivation is coming more naturally again. I still get B1 in the B complex but it's not a huge dose. I'm keeping separate B1 around for times I think I need the extra push.

 

[caroline]

Interesting. Thanks for the info, Haidut. Very helpful.

Peata, what you mention is what I have failed to see with the B1. It doesn't appear to get me over any hump, regardless of whether I take a lot or none or a little. But again, it took a while for things to work for me, so I am not positive about this yet. However, other than the one day, I have not noticed any energy from it. None.

I only have taken the 500 mg of B1 so far. I am really not concerned about taking too much of it b/c I haven't been taking it very long. Moreso, just not clear that it does anything. The 1500 doesn't seem to do anything. I would be fine taking it multiple times a day, as I did a few times, but I just don't notice it. However, I am not done experimenting with it.

I'm not on aspirin yet. I don't get it. I read about it but I"m not clear in simple terms on what it actually does. So I am not motivated to take it b/c I don't understand how it will help me.

Breathing seems to have a nice effect.

 

[caroline]

On appetite, initially doing Peat, I did feel the need to eat more often, which I attributed to consuming sugar--I didn't think this was especially positive. I never got low blood sugar episode except for the one time I had grapes. But now, I feel very steady and just have snacks to re-fuel, and my appetite seems pretty minimal. My energy actually is much better now--perhaps from the breathing. I don't feel tired at all. Nor wired. Just regular and have been concentrating for probably a good 7 hours with very little interruption.

 

[charlie]

I'm not on aspirin yet. I don't get it. I read about it but I"m not clear in simple terms on what it actually does. So I am not motivated to take it b/c I don't understand how it will help me.

Salicylic acid aka Aspirin is pretty awesome in the things it does. Here are some quotes from Ray Peat on it:

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/0 ... n-aspirin/

It seems to increase my dermatitis and I have not quite worked out the mechanism as to why. But I can tell the immediate raise in metabolic rate when taking it.

 

[caroline]

OK. Thanks, Charlie. I want to just go get a brand at Walgreen's. I have to look on Dan Wich's site again to see which one to take. What is the minimum amount I could take? Do you have a particular store brand that is obvious one (that I could find) that you could recommend?

 

[caroline]

Thanks, reading the link. What do you personally notice from it that you could name in terms of benefits?

 

[charlie]

OK. Thanks, Charlie. I want to just go get a brand at Walgreen's. I have to look on Dan Wich's site again to see which one to take. What is the minimum amount I could take? Do you have a particular store brand that is obvious one (that I could find) that you could recommend?

You could take a very small amount and get benefits from it. Ray Peat recommends vitamin K if you are going to take aspirin due to the blood thinning effects of the aspirin. The dollar store brand costs $1 and only has starch in it which you can dissolve the pill in water and leave most of the starch in the water. When I order next time I will be getting this:

https://www.ablackhorse.com/store/pc/Pr ... 1p3163.htm

Thanks, reading the link. What do you personally notice from it that you could name in terms of benefits?

Instant heat from metabolism boost, instant feeling good, uplifting feeling. However I cannot take it too long because of the recurring dermatitis I have that flares up. Eventually I will work through that but haven't had a chance yet.