Why are there so many people who are not able to raise their copper levels ?

[Motif]

What’s wrong with them?

People are eating liver , potatoes , take 9 mg of supplements over months and nothing raises copper.
I was reading this many times now.

Many get IV copper and it does nothing, so it is not even a digestion issue for many or some.


Me for example. I tried copper supplements for 6 weeks , 9 mg daily , no zinc and nothing happened. Still low levels.

Then eating liver 250 g twice a week for some time. Nothing. I was also taking vitamin A in that time.

Someone said manganese is needed.
Someone said vitamin c.
Another one said minerals are only absorbed in conjunction with sulphate.
B2?

Maybe somebody has an idea

 

[IROM]

Bump. This is a good question. Reference video for anyone who doesn't know importance of copper.


View: https://youtu.be/_7c0QC6aLM4

 

[aniciete]

In my opinion, too many supplements. People can continue to recommend different supplement ratios which are “optimal”, but nothing will compare to getting everything from food.

Copper absorption as affected by supplemental calcium, magnesium, manganese, selenium and potassium - PubMed

Effects of feeding supplements of calcium, magnesium, manganese, selenium and potassium on dietary copper bioavailability of humans were investigated. Results indicated that the calcium supplements depressed fecal copper losses and improved body copper retention as did potassium supplements...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Kayaker]

I'm one of those people. My copper is low and iron is high despite lots of liver, shellfish, and chocolate, so I believe iron is causing my body to not absorb copper.

Iron overload can induce mild copper deficiency - PubMed

Dietary copper in the U.S. often is lower than that proved insufficient for men and women under controlled conditions. Iron overload can have adverse effects on copper nutriture and can produce cardiac disease in people. The hypothesis that iron can interfere with copper utilization to produce...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Nebula]

Mineralization seems to mostly be an energy and not primarily a mineral intake issue. Many are calorie and so also t3 and NAD+ deficient. Why should the body put energy into retaining and depositing minerals when it doesn’t have enough energy to run the liver and other organs optimally?

 

[Perry Staltic]

I'm one of those people. My copper is low and iron is high despite lots of liver, shellfish, and chocolate, so I believe iron is causing my body to not absorb copper.

Iron overload can induce mild copper deficiency - PubMed

Dietary copper in the U.S. often is lower than that proved insufficient for men and women under controlled conditions. Iron overload can have adverse effects on copper nutriture and can produce cardiac disease in people. The hypothesis that iron can interfere with copper utilization to produce...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You're getting a lot of iron from liver and chocolate.

 

[Kayaker]

Mineralization seems to mostly be an energy and not primarily a mineral intake issue. Many are calorie and so also t3 and NAD+ deficient.

What about when iron is high and copper is low?

You're getting a lot of iron from liver and chocolate.

My erythrocytes have been gradually increasing since adolescence, even during times that I donated blood multiple times per year, and during some of those times I didn't eat any meat at all.

Liver indeed provides a lot of iron. I've been eating liver every few weeks and meat daily.

Chocolate is a different story. It has the non-heme form of iron, which is poorly absorbed from what I could understand.

I respond better to chocolate than any other food or supplement, so I assume the copper which I'm low in is much more beneficial than the poorly absorbed iron.

 

[Apple]

What’s wrong with them?

People are eating liver , potatoes , take 9 mg of supplements over months and nothing raises copper.
I was reading this many times now.

Many get IV copper and it does nothing, so it is not even a digestion issue for many or some.


Me for example. I tried copper supplements for 6 weeks , 9 mg daily , no zinc and nothing happened. Still low levels.

Then eating liver 250 g twice a week for some time. Nothing. I was also taking vitamin A in that time.

Someone said manganese is needed.
Someone said vitamin c.
Another one said minerals are only absorbed in conjunction with sulphate.
B2?

Maybe somebody has an idea

I think it requires a hollistic approach... all minerals should be brought into balance
You sure you follow RP's recommendation on fructose ?

RP :
Fructose affects the body's ability to retain other nutrients, including magnesium, copper, calcium, and other minerals.
Comparing diets with 20% of the calories from fructose or from cornstarch, Holbrook, et al. (1989) concluded "The results indicate that dietary fructose enhances mineral balance."
Ordinarily, things (such as thyroid and vitamin D) improve the retention of magnesium and other nutrients.


Ditch supplements ... all you need is fructose

 

[Motif]

I think it requires a hollistic approach... all minerals should be brought into balance
You sure you follow RP's recommendation on fructose ?

RP :
Fructose affects the body's ability to retain other nutrients, including magnesium, copper, calcium, and other minerals.
Comparing diets with 20% of the calories from fructose or from cornstarch, Holbrook, et al. (1989) concluded "The results indicate that dietary fructose enhances mineral balance."
Ordinarily, things (such as thyroid and vitamin D) improve the retention of magnesium and other nutrients.


Ditch supplements ... all you need is fructose

Fructose prefered in what Form and how much daily?

 

[rayban]

I take 200 UI with k2 mk7 75 μg in an EVOO base, is this supplement good? I don't want to take these absurdly high doses.

 

[Apple]

Fructose prefered in what Form and how much daily?

Honey, fruit, sugar (some people can't metabolise sugar though) , Coke

 

[Motif]

Honey, fruit, sugar (some people can't metabolise sugar though) , Coke

I’ll try to get more fruits. But I get plenty of sugar

 

[Apple]

I’ll try to get more fruits. But I get plenty of sugar

Honey contains free fructose and free glucose ... it might be helpful

 

[L_C]

What’s wrong with them?

People are eating liver , potatoes , take 9 mg of supplements over months and nothing raises copper.
I was reading this many times now.

Many get IV copper and it does nothing, so it is not even a digestion issue for many or some.


Me for example. I tried copper supplements for 6 weeks , 9 mg daily , no zinc and nothing happened. Still low levels.

Then eating liver 250 g twice a week for some time. Nothing. I was also taking vitamin A in that time.

Someone said manganese is needed.
Someone said vitamin c.
Another one said minerals are only absorbed in conjunction with sulphate.
B2?

Maybe somebody has an idea

These vitamins/minerals antagonize copper: A, B3, B5, B6, C, Fe, K, Zn. Too much of one depletes another one.

 

[rayban]

These vitamins/minerals antagonize copper: A, B3, B5, B6, C, Fe, K, Zn. Too much of one depletes another one.

Are vitamin bloodworks useful or its a waste of time?

Vitamins Blood Test Panel | Walk-In Lab

Order a Vitamins Blood Test Panel to detect vitamin deficiencies including vitamins A, B1, B6, B9(Folic Acid), B12, C, D,E, and K1.

www.walkinlab.com

can I order a test like this and get accurate results? and wasn't vitamin k not possible to be measured or something'

Also, why people don't test for the vitamin D active metabolite 1,25? the oh 25 alone is only showing the inactive one. It would be like testing only t4 but not t3.

 

[Motif]

What tests are reliable ?

Serum or whole blood for zinc and copper ?

 

[BigShoes]

I don't have all of this figured out but:

I think a big part of it is actually due to the Zinc-to-Copper ratio - this is something that Ray Peat doesn't seem to discuss much.

As a general rule: zinc can block copper absorption (and vice versa). All of the foods that Ray Peat recommends for copper (oysters, beef liver, to a lesser extent dairy) are usually much higher in zinc than copper - so the ratios are still not ideal if the goal is to increase your copper.

Also, land animal meat (ruminants) is generally much higher in zinc and much lower in copper. Whereas, fish is usually higher in copper and lower in zinc.

Lots of meat consumption, without white fish consumption to balance it out (or mushrooms and some plant foods), can lead to high zinc and low copper.

Morley Robbins discusses this frequently, for what it's worth (I know he isn't too popular here). Frank Tufano also has a quite interesting introductory video on YT called "Understanding Zinc to Copper Ratio" (again, he's probably not too popular around here - but it could give you some further ideas to check out) - apologies, I cannot link the video due to being a new member to the forum.

 

[Kayaker]

I don't have all of this figured out but:

I think a big part of it is actually due to the Zinc-to-Copper ratio - this is something that Ray Peat doesn't seem to discuss much.

As a general rule: zinc can block copper absorption (and vice versa). All of the foods that Ray Peat recommends for copper (oysters, beef liver, to a lesser extent dairy) are usually much higher in zinc than copper - so the ratios are still not ideal if the goal is to increase your copper.

Also, land animal meat (ruminants) is generally much higher in zinc and much lower in copper. Whereas, fish is usually higher in copper and lower in zinc.

Lots of meat consumption, without white fish consumption to balance it out (or mushrooms and some plant foods), can lead to high zinc and low copper.

Morley Robbins discusses this frequently, for what it's worth (I know he isn't too popular here). Frank Tufano also has a quite interesting introductory video on YT called "Understanding Zinc to Copper Ratio" (again, he's probably not too popular around here - but it could give you some further ideas to check out) - apologies, I cannot link the video due to being a new member to the forum.

This is true in my experience. Both my serum and hair zinc-copper ratio is high. My ratio is 1.0 for serum.

 

[GenericName86]

I’ll try to get more fruits. But I get plenty of sugar

A recent thread on Honey mentions it increased serum copper. -"Honey reduced serum immunoglobulin E by 34% and increased serum copper by 33%"

If that's what you're after then could be something looking into. - Honey speeds up metabolism and recovery in bone fracture

 

[Kayaker]

A recent thread on Honey mentions it increased serum copper. -"Honey reduced serum immunoglobulin E by 34% and increased serum copper by 33%"

If that's what you're after then could be something looking into. - Honey speeds up metabolism and recovery in bone fracture

But I have diarrhea from honey. Peat mentioned that fructose has the effect of increasing copper retention, so plain sugar would work as well.