Low Body Temperature - Wilson's, Hypothyroid, Other?

[frzntx]

Hi to all, and trusting this message finds everyone safe and at ease. I’m seeking opinions and possible routes to alleviate some issues correlated with low body temperature. A little background: I've had the experience of type-1 diabetes since December 1999, currently 35 years old, fit/muscular build, on insulin pump therapy since around 2003, general HbA1c ranging 7.0-7.4. From being “sick” about a month ago, I started checking my temperature for fever and discovered an underlying low body temperature - which may explain the extreme fatigue/zombie state I feel most times; entirely uncomfortable cold extremities/cold intolerance; low drive/motivation; low libido and bouts of ED; difficulty sweating; pulsatile tinnitus; very hard to wake up in the morning with heaviness, aches, fog, general desire to stay asleep and not waking up refreshed, etc for at least the past six years on-and-off. Prior to that, I recall being hot often, partners unable to sleep next to me given the heat I would radiate. But the fatigue has often been an issue for most of my life, oscillating between debilitating and decent periods. My temperature is consistently 1.5-2 degrees F below normal (usually mid-high 96s upon waking, sometimes low 96s) and maybe goes to mid-high 97s during the day unless increased by external factors (such as following Steve Richfield's reset protocol). I've also read Matt Stone's "Eat for Heat" and implementing more of his ideas (specifically less fluid intake), having had a trend of lower sodium based on blood and hair mineral analysis in the past, along with using a far infrared mat for sleeping. But I can’t get a normal temperature to “stick.”

Over the years I've had tons of labs, functional medicine tests, a plethora of supplementation, dietary changes (ranging from raw vegan to carnivore), detox protocols.. but always seem to go back to some state of what is described above. However, up to this point, temperature wasn't considered or tested. As an aside, carnivore (only grass-fed, high fat beef, sea salt, and water) was the best for excellent glucose control and significantly less insulin usage (duh), with more stable energy/mood, but I began feeling heavy and almost sick when smelling/tasting the meat and fat. I typically exercise 3-5x a week, mostly at night since this is when my energy/drive seems to peak.

Anyway, it is my opinion that constant insulin delivery is a contributing factor to this lack of metabolic action (or am I wrong in assuming lack of metabolic action?) and temperature regulation issues. It is my goal in the near future to fast for a few days, simultaneously stopping insulin therapy (shh, don’t tell the endo), and experiment with a combination of raffinose feeding, along with beta cell regenerative and anti-inflammatory supplements. It is curious to note that my diagnosis in Dec 1999 was at a near coma-state, with prior urinalysis at the end of July 1999 showing no signs of glucose or ketones, and no experience of diabetic symptoms (fatigue, thirst, frequent urination, etc) - but at that same doctor's visit in July, a Tetanus-Diptheria vaccine was administered. To keep from going off on too much of a tangent, I will save this experiment and discussion for a possible separate thread!

As mentioned, I have a bunch of lab results over time, but will share the most recent in hopes of getting some advice on whether or not this low temperature and associated symptomology is a case of hypothyroidism (note: weight gain has never been an issue for me and it’s generally harder to keep on weight/muscle mass without rigorous eating and exercise), the so-called Wilson’s temperature syndrome, or something else presenting as such – and maybe what other protocols to try. Thank you in advance for reviewing this and any insight that is offered (reference ranges in parenthesis).

C-Reative Protein: <0.2 mg/L (<8.0mg/L)
Sodium: 138 mmo/L (135-146) *Up from 134 the previous month and since “eating for heat”
Potassium: 3.9 mmo/L (3.5-5.3)

FT4 index (T7): 2.3 (1.4-3.8)
RT3: 15 ng/dL (8-25)
T3 Uptake: 39% (22-35) *High
T3 Free: 2.8 pg/mL (2.3-4.2)
T3 Total: 73 ng/dL (76-181) *Low
T4 Total: 5.9 mcg/dL (4.9-10.5)
T4 Free: 1.2 ng/dL (0.8-1.8)
Thyroglobulin Antibodies: <1 IU/mL (<=1)
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies: <1 IU/mL (<9)
TSH: 1.66 mIU/L (0.4-4.5) *Note a month prior this was 4.29

Cortisol AM: 17.7 mcg/dL (4-22)
GH: 0.1 ng/mL (<=7.1)
IGF1: 94 ng/mL (53-331)
DHEA: 364 mcg/dL (106-464)
Estradiol: 47 pg/mL (<=39) *High
Testosterone Free: 158.3 pg/mL (35-155) *High (note this has been high for years without explanation or T booster/therapy)
Testosterone Total: 1084 ng/dL (250-1100) *This has been high for years without explanation or T booster/therapy
FSH: 4.7 mIU/mL (1.6-8)
LH: 6.2 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)
Prolactin: 18.5 ng/mL (2-18) *High
SHBG: 58 nmo/L (10-50) *High

Iron, Total: 148 mcg/dL (50-180) *Up from 77 prior month and supplementing OptiFerin-C
Ferritin: 149 ng/mL (38-380) * Up from 35 prior month and supplementing OptiFerin-C
% Saturation: 53% (20-48) *High
Iron Binding Capacity: 280 mcg/dL (250-425)
Transferrin: 231 mg/dL (188-341)

Sed Rate ESR: 19 mm/h (<=15) *High
Folate: 6.8 ng/mL
B12: 569 pg/mL (200-1100)
Vitamin D, D2: <4 ng/mL *have since supplemented with Vitamin D
Vitamin D, D3: 37 ng/mL
Vitamin D, Total: 37 (ng/mL) *have since supplemented with Vitamin D
Copper: 66 mcg/dL (70-175) *Low
Zinc: 63 mcg/dL (60-130) *Low end
Magnesium, RBC: 4.8 mg/DL (4-6.4)
ANA Screen: Negative

I'm not sure how low copper and close to low zinc play into this?

Current supplement protocol includes Gaia Adrenal Jump Start and Vitamin D (10,000IU), and just started 5-MTHF folate. I tried T2 for a few days but noticed no difference in body temperatures (maybe didn’t use this long enough). Previously I had tried iodine with selenium, l-tyrosine, cayenne, red ginseng, ginger, l-arginine, OptiFerin-C but have stopped all of this to determine a new baseline. I’m doing coffee enemas a few times a week (currently good liver values but have battled slightly high ALT and AST, low alk phosphatase over the years), far infrared mat at night, gluten-free diet (have done so for many years) with emphasis on organic sources and fats including coconut oil, grass-fed butter, ghee, cheese, cream.

This is an interesting time in the world where we can go within and address the things that have been kept in the shadow (consciously or unconsciously), and it is my aim to do just that – so I appreciate any support in looking into the mirror. Whew! Okay, time for a nap

 

[frzntx]

So, waking up at 96.5, 97.3 F these past few days, despite feeling "warm" and waking up on the IR mat somewhat sweaty. Tons of aches, stiffness, heaviness. I just started supplementing chelated copper 2.5mg, no zinc picolinate to be found in stock any where yet. What would contribute to both copper AND zinc being on the low end of the spectrum? Was this perhaps from supplementing the OptiFerin (Iron), blocking any natural absorption of zinc or copper in the diet?

 

[LauriePartridge]

Hi there! I really don't know a lot about some of your issues but I do have some comments. I don't know much about insulin issues so I can't comment there. But regarding iron, it can be toxic in large amounts so I would be cautious. Your levels seem high/possibly too high. Iron is a copper and zinc antagonist. If you are consuming a lot of iron it makes sense that your copper would be low as well as zinc. I am not an expert on Wilson's but I wouldn't speculate with your taking supplemental iron as it will interfere with copper. Additionally, I have found supplementing vitamin C even in low amounts also competes with copper. I would NEVER EVER (not shouting just emphasizing :)) supplement with zinc unless I absolutely could not get enough in my diet. Personally, I think zinc can be quite toxic like iron and is way overemphasized. I also find it really easy to get in my diet. It strongly competes with copper. If I ever supplement with zinc, it robs copper right away. Zinc always wins in the competition with copper when it comes to supplementing and it is really tricky trying to balance. You can't have a proper temperature without adequate copper and iodine. Iodine is really critical but it is really tricky. You have to have just the right amount for it to help.

I think it's possible to consider low thyroid as your T3 is on the low side and elevated ALT and AST with low alk phosphatase tend to coincide with low thyroid. I'm wondering what contributed to your drop in TSH from a 4.29 (which is less than optimal) a month or so ago. Also your magnesium seems less than optimal. Low thyroid tends to burn magnesium as well as copper. Also, intense exercise can negatively affect thyroid functioning.

Good luck!

 

[frzntx]

Hi there! I really don't know a lot about some of your issues but I do have some comments. I don't know much about insulin issues so I can't comment there. But regarding iron, it can be toxic in large amounts so I would be cautious. Your levels seem high/possibly too high. Iron is a copper and zinc antagonist. If you are consuming a lot of iron it makes sense that your copper would be low as well as zinc. I am not an expert on Wilson's but I wouldn't speculate with your taking supplemental iron as it will interfere with copper. Additionally, I have found supplementing vitamin C even in low amounts also competes with copper. I would NEVER EVER (not shouting just emphasizing :)) supplement with zinc unless I absolutely could not get enough in my diet. Personally, I think zinc can be quite toxic like iron and is way overemphasized. I also find it really easy to get in my diet. It strongly competes with copper. If I ever supplement with zinc, it robs copper right away. Zinc always wins in the competition with copper when it comes to supplementing and it is really tricky trying to balance. You can't have a proper temperature without adequate copper and iodine. Iodine is really critical but it is really tricky. You have to have just the right amount for it to help.

I think it's possible to consider low thyroid as your T3 is on the low side and elevated ALT and AST with low alk phosphatase tend to coincide with low thyroid. I'm wondering what contributed to your drop in TSH from a 4.29 (which is less than optimal) a month or so ago. Also your magnesium seems less than optimal. Low thyroid tends to burn magnesium as well as copper. Also, intense exercise can negatively affect thyroid functioning.

Good luck!

Thank you for your useful input! Definitely something at play with the iron - those values were from when I was taking the OptiFerin, which I've stopped now for maybe the last three weeks. So it DID raise my iron and ferritin values, but possibly negatively affecting copper and zinc (can't say for sure without a baseline). But what could have been causing such low ferritin to begin with? Also, since that last magnesium reading, I've been using magnesium oil spray at night before bed. For the TSH drop, I was on a very low carb diet at the time of the 4.29, and started going back to basically unrestricted carb intake shortly thereafter.

 

[LauriePartridge]

Here is some research on the relationship between copper and iron that might be worth exploring: Copper Deficiency - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics. They discuss the relationship between copper and iron metabolism/low ferritin.

I have not done extensive research on iron, but I do know from a Peat perspective less is often more. I have read others' comments about trying to keep ferritin levels on the low side. Here is an article by Peat on iron if you haven't already seen it:
Iron's Dangers

Or there could be other factors that are interfering with your iron such as your diet. I know vitamin A is important in metabolizing iron: New property of vitamin A and beta-carotene on human iron absorption: effect on phytate and polyphenols as inhibitors of iron absorption. - PubMed - NCBI
Here is a post from a non profit national organization on dietary intake of certain substances that both increase and decrease iron absorption:Diet

Also exercise can influence iron metabolism:Iron deficiency caused by 7 weeks of intensive physical exercise

I am glad you found a way to lower your TSH by eating carbs. Everything I have read and heard supports the need for carbs to maintain a healthy metabolism and thyroid functioning. It sounds like you are finding success there which is great! I would still recommend making sure you get the RDA of iodine in your diet.

 

[frzntx]

Good reading! Okay, given I haven't focused much on these values in the past, nor have tinkered with them, it may be best to leave as-is. The iron metabolism makes sense because, in general, intensive exercise has been in my routine for years. Vitamin A should be okay, eating things like mangoes, spinach, sweet potatoes that are higher in this - unless it comes down to absorption. Visually, one would say I'm very fit/muscular, but energetically it just isn't the case as a general rule! Even with going on 35+ days of not exercising (which is rare for me, but actually also happened at this time last year), the energy level hasn't rebounded, so obviously something else is at play. I still go on a semi-leisurely walk almost every day to keep the blood flowing, but even that can be a push.

Even more lately I'm noticing increasing joint aches on waking especially in the feet, shoulders, elbows. Just got a blood draw for progesterone, pregnenelone, iodine, selenium, and re-testing prolactin and estrogen. There is also a trend over the last ~10 years for high T (to where doctors usually ask if I'm taking something anabolic, which I haven't, but then again insulin is), higher E and the few times prolactin has been tested, it has been on the higher end. I've also always had some form of gynecomastia since puberty (12-13), which I was always told would "go away" but has persisted all of these years. So clearly, there has always been some sort of hormonal imbalance. At this point, I'm trying to get a better picture hormonally before possibly supplementing with progesterone and T3, possibly other things to address the gyno (likely a combo of Vitex/chasteberry and cleavers from reading some posts on this forum). I know it's all related, just not sure how yet - and then the T1D at age 14 which, if estrogen was higher and there was an increased inflammation response in the body already, could have played a factor - possibly coupled with the vaccine triggering an increase in inflammation response some months prior. Just throwing out ideas, nothing conclusive yet.

 

[Ableton]

replying since I was in a similar situation, and after reading your latest post in the "wish for more energy" thread, we have a lot in common.

Basically, I got hypo from being anemic. My ferritin was similar to yours, my serum iron below range as well though.
A month after supplementing my TSH dropped from 4,5 to 3,5; and I suspect it has further dropped since, as I applied peat principles. Maybe this was the case for you as well, and it's that simple.

Regarding the copper/iron ratio, I would advise you to get off all supplements and eat liver. This is recommended A LOT here, for various reasons. Liver contains tons of copper and iron, and in a "natural" ratio. I think sticking to a liver eating protocol will fix your issues.

I, too, was messing with supplements like zinc, and am feeling better since dropping them and managing my micros through cronometer and just food

 

[frzntx]

Yeah, agreed.. whole food is the preferred route! How often are you eating liver, and how much? When you were feeling hypo, were you taking any thyroid meds? And it resolved itself now with peating and addressing the trace mineral needs with liver (at least, based on how you feel)?

 

[Ableton]

I am still hypo in the morning. Fixing my anemia still produced a temp improvement of like 0,5 Celsius though. After that progress has been slow in waking temps. But it's there
200g

 

[LauriePartridge]

Good reading! Okay, given I haven't focused much on these values in the past, nor have tinkered with them, it may be best to leave as-is. The iron metabolism makes sense because, in general, intensive exercise has been in my routine for years. Vitamin A should be okay, eating things like mangoes, spinach, sweet potatoes that are higher in this - unless it comes down to absorption. Visually, one would say I'm very fit/muscular, but energetically it just isn't the case as a general rule! Even with going on 35+ days of not exercising (which is rare for me, but actually also happened at this time last year), the energy level hasn't rebounded, so obviously something else is at play. I still go on a semi-leisurely walk almost every day to keep the blood flowing, but even that can be a push.

Even more lately I'm noticing increasing joint aches on waking especially in the feet, shoulders, elbows. Just got a blood draw for progesterone, pregnenelone, iodine, selenium, and re-testing prolactin and estrogen. There is also a trend over the last ~10 years for high T (to where doctors usually ask if I'm taking something anabolic, which I haven't, but then again insulin is), higher E and the few times prolactin has been tested, it has been on the higher end. I've also always had some form of gynecomastia since puberty (12-13), which I was always told would "go away" but has persisted all of these years. So clearly, there has always been some sort of hormonal imbalance. At this point, I'm trying to get a better picture hormonally before possibly supplementing with progesterone and T3, possibly other things to address the gyno (likely a combo of Vitex/chasteberry and cleavers from reading some posts on this forum). I know it's all related, just not sure how yet - and then the T1D at age 14 which, if estrogen was higher and there was an increased inflammation response in the body already, could have played a factor - possibly coupled with the vaccine triggering an increase in inflammation response some months prior. Just throwing out ideas, nothing conclusive yet.

I think it's smart to focus on ways to decrease estrogen which could be a driving underlying issue for you. There is lots of discussion about how to do so on this forum. Also, I'd be careful about too much A in the form of beta carotene as it can be thyroid suppressive - and less optimal thyroid functioning usually means increased estrogen. I'd also watch out for phytoestrogens and research that area. Spinach and sweet potatos have high amounts of goitrogens as well as beta carotene. I like the other suggestion you received about trying liver for A and copper. I'd just be careful about the amounts as Vitamin A in the wrong amount can be detrimental. But small amounts can be quite therapeutic especially from liver. I also like the suggestion to skip the supplements (i.e. copper/zinc/iron) as they can really throw your metabolism out of wack - maybe really explore your dietary options first. I'd be suspicious that some of your food choices are interfering with your metabolism - especially all that beta carotene and maybe pick foods that produce less of an estrogenic effect. Some good vitamin E (do your research on the best form if you want to try it) is a supplement that might be worth trying to help shed some of the excess estrogen.

 

[LauriePartridge]

This question might sound odd but have you used (especially in childhood) or do you use lavender/products?

 

[frzntx]

@Ableton Interesting, and how long did it take to stabilize? How often are you consuming 200g of liver?

@LauriePartridge Finally decided to get on the cronometer train to get a better idea of what I'm taking in. I can already tell that Vitamin E and K intake are very low with my typical diet. Also, the Vitamin A from the spinach and sweet potatoes is only 1-2x per week. So far, it looks like my main sources of Vitamin A are from heavy whipping cream and medjool dates. Today I've dropped the mineral supplements completely, although am still taking a B-Complex, along with Vitamin D and morning adrenal support (composition attached). Lavender use wasn't and isn't prevalent.

 

[Ableton]

200g a week spread over 2-3 days in a row.

improvement from iron was almost immediate. weeks of peating made a difference of maybe 0,1-0,2 Celsius. Im on Tyromix now, and my temps are near ideal now

 

[LauriePartridge]

@Ableton Interesting, and how long did it take to stabilize? How often are you consuming 200g of liver?

@LauriePartridge Finally decided to get on the cronometer train to get a better idea of what I'm taking in. I can already tell that Vitamin E and K intake are very low with my typical diet. Also, the Vitamin A from the spinach and sweet potatoes is only 1-2x per week. So far, it looks like my main sources of Vitamin A are from heavy whipping cream and medjool dates. Today I've dropped the mineral supplements completely, although am still taking a B-Complex, along with Vitamin D and morning adrenal support (composition attached). Lavender use wasn't and isn't prevalent.

The amount of beta carotene in sweet potatoes is HUGE.2
Eating them once or twice a week might not be significant for someone with great thyroid functioning but it can really cause hypo symptoms for those with weaker thyroid. You can research threads here in which people have reported bad reactions from them.

 

[frzntx]

To update, some recent labs show:

Progesterone: 1.0 ng/mL (<1.4)
Pregnenolone: 195 ng/dL (22-237)
Estrogen, Total: 202.6 pg/mL (60-190) *High
Prolactin: 16.6 ng/mL (2-18) *Dropped from 18.5 in Feb

Vitamin E: *pending
Iodine, serum/plasma: 51 mcg/L (52-109) *Low
Selenium: 154 mcg/L (63-160)

As mentioned previously, based on diet, I think the Vitamin E will come back low. I have some TocoVit coming, along with Progesterone and T3 - but is it worth supplementing with iodine as well (without selenium, since I'm on the higher end anyway)? Finally got a hold of some grass fed beef liver, and will start that today.

 

[LauriePartridge]

TocoVit is a great product. I have had excellent results with it. I hope it works for you.

In regards to iodine, you don't have to supplement but if you want to increase it you won't know if it's working if you introduce other things at the same time (ie. progesterone and T3). The key with iodine is to start in very low increments to see how your body adjusts (even from diet). If you have been deficient and deficient for a while, jumping to 150 mcgs (RDA I think) right away can overwhelm your thyroid/body into a hyper state. It's also very hard to know how much you are getting from food as it can really vary. Also it depends on your diet/lifestyle too as to how much iodine you need. If you are eating goitrogens, phytoestrogens and thyroid blocking foods like beta carotene, you generally need more iodine to compensate because estrogenic food in particular blocks iodine uptake from the thyroid. It would be good to assess how much you get from your diet and then decide how to increase. Dairy is really iffy as it depends so much on the feed and farming practices regarding how much iodine is in it. You usually have to call the company to get a better idea. Organic tends to be lower than conventional. Fish can really vary too based on region. Seaweed from a reputable source that checks for heavy metals and nutrition content can be really useful but keep in mind it is very high in histamine which pushes estrogen higher and thyroid lower if not regulated well by your body.

Iodized salt can be a simple experiment. It's potassium iodide which gets absorbed pretty fast. If you take a pinch of Morton's for example you get around 17 micrograms of iodine. If it is working, it should give you warmth right away and reduce some estrogenic symptoms.

I wouldn't worry about adding selenium if you aren't adding too much iodine.

 

[LauriePartridge]

Oh the other thing about iodine is don't eat it at night. It really revs up your metabolism and can make falling asleep difficult.

 

[frzntx]

Thank you, Laurie, you've been a big help in tying some of this together! What was your protocol for TocoVit? I'm using ~10 drops sublingual in the morning and ~4 drops topical in the evening for 400 IU. Taking 20mg progesterone (topical) and 8mcg Tyronene/T3 (oral) both in the morning, and I'm not feeling noticeably different from any of this yet... if anything, maybe more tired/brain foggy or overall dull mood. Of course, I'll give it some more time and assess the iodine situation as well, maybe taking some iodized salt particularly when I feel low/cold. Leading up to the blood draw, I was consuming a decent amount of shrimp, cod, and tuna, and virtually no goitrogens. Probably the most phytoestrogenic foods would have been rice and berries, so I would have to guess the beta carotene is in play for blocking uptake.

 

[frzntx]

Vitamin E came back finally:

ALPHA-TOCOPHEROL: 14.3 mg/L (5.7-19.9)
BETA-GAMMA-TOCOPHEROL: 1.0 mg/L (<4.3)

I'm a little confused still. I've upped Tyronene to 16mcg (two drops) in the morning, but overall still feel potentially even more brain fog and fatigue, still with the low temperatures.

I came across Dr. Wilson's protocol for this (see around slide 44, with explanation within article) and will start following this protocol, although it feels aggresive:

Cycling up on the T3
Increase dose by 7.5 mcg/dose/day
• Day 1 > 7.5 mcg (am), pm)
• Day 2 > 15 mcg, 15 mcg
• Day 3 > 22.5 mcg, 22.5 mcg
• Day 4 > 30 mcg, 30 mcg
•…
• Day 10 > 75 mcg , 75 mcg
• no higher on this cycle, just to be cautious no higher on this cycle

Part one is here in case anyone is interested.

 

[LauriePartridge]

Thank you, Laurie, you've been a big help in tying some of this together! What was your protocol for TocoVit? I'm using ~10 drops sublingual in the morning and ~4 drops topical in the evening for 400 IU. Taking 20mg progesterone (topical) and 8mcg Tyronene/T3 (oral) both in the morning, and I'm not feeling noticeably different from any of this yet... if anything, maybe more tired/brain foggy or overall dull mood. Of course, I'll give it some more time and assess the iodine situation as well, maybe taking some iodized salt particularly when I feel low/cold. Leading up to the blood draw, I was consuming a decent amount of shrimp, cod, and tuna, and virtually no goitrogens. Probably the most phytoestrogenic foods would have been rice and berries, so I would have to guess the beta carotene is in play for blocking uptake.

I used about 400 IU of the TocoVit initially but just whatever amount alleviated my symptoms. It really acts like thyroid so it worked very well. I think you have to judge anything by how it makes you feel. I only have experience with progesterone and not T3 but whatever I try if it's right, it will create warmth and reduce estrogenic symptoms. Actually the TocoVit started to cause hyper symptoms which I later figured out was related to too much Vitamin A causing hyperthyroid. Vit E increases intestinal absorption of Vit A up to 40 percent so that's why it gave me those symptoms (it was activating the A, which was too much) but I just take a little now or as needed. And iodine and Vit A are also synergistic. Retonic acid (A) is involved in iodine uptake. Too little preformed Vit A will decrease iodine uptake and impair thyroid metabolism. Beta carotene has to convert to retonic acid which doesn't happen very well with low thyroid functioning hence the caution with beta carotene in the diet. It's better to get A from the source like liver but it has to be the right amount, not too little and not too much because even A in this form can slow thyroid functioning too. Additionally the right amount of iodine is critical as it also down regulates estrogen.