Why are there so many people who are not able to raise their copper levels ?

Dave Clark

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
1,978
How do you measure the levels of heavy metals? I had a hair test back then and I had no high metals, but mineral ratios were all over the place. Apparently its not as easy as looking at the lines, you must measure a insane amount of ratios so it was inclusive because I dont know how to interpet these tests.
This is just my personal opinion, but I think trying to test for metals is like chasing your tail. Metals will show different levels in different places like the serum, tissues, organs, etc. Without a biopsy, it is just a guess to say how much copper, or any metal is in the brain, liver, kidney, etc. Hair tests may show some information as to how things are being metabolized and possible deficiencies or overloads, but not conclusive. My post was just to give some thought to a metal, Hg, that causes other mineral dysfunctions like copper and iron, and the possibility that dysfunction caused by Hg is the problem, not dietary deficiency or overload. Like Dr. Haley's wife, and many other people, once Hg is removed, iron status normalizes and I would also assume copper status. This is an underappreciated theory, but if more people would give this NBMI protocol a try, they would solve some of these issues.
 

rayban

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
402
Location
France
This is just my personal opinion, but I think trying to test for metals is like chasing your tail. Metals will show different levels in different places like the serum, tissues, organs, etc. Without a biopsy, it is just a guess to say how much copper, or any metal is in the brain, liver, kidney, etc. Hair tests may show some information as to how things are being metabolized and possible deficiencies or overloads, but not conclusive. My post was just to give some thought to a metal, Hg, that causes other mineral dysfunctions like copper and iron, and the possibility that dysfunction caused by Hg is the problem, not dietary deficiency or overload. Like Dr. Haley's wife, and many other people, once Hg is removed, iron status normalizes and I would also assume copper status. This is an underappreciated theory, but if more people would give this NBMI protocol a try, they would solve some of these issues.
From what i've read heavy metals accumulate over time on hair so if you had a serious buildin it should show up on the hair test.
As far as minerals, to know if you really have deficiency, i've heard about Cutlers protocol for interpretation of the mineralogram tests but no idea how it works.
 

lampofred

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,244
I think the body can purposefully keep copper low and iron high as a "back-up" way to raise metabolic rate. Low calcium and high phosphate (which depends on much more than just dietary intake) leads to an overall low thyroid-driven metabolic rate, which requires the body to use lower quality ways (like iron) to raise metabolic rate.
 

Ct23

Member
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
8
I've been reading about boron and some studies show it raises cerulo and serum copper.
 

BigShoes

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2021
Messages
186
Location
London
I think the body can purposefully keep copper low and iron high as a "back-up" way to raise metabolic rate. Low calcium and high phosphate (which depends on much more than just dietary intake) leads to an overall low thyroid-driven metabolic rate, which requires the body to use lower quality ways (like iron) to raise metabolic rate.
Can you explain what determines calcium to phosphate ratio outside of dietary intake?

Despite consuming just traces of calcium for a long time and high phosphorus ("carnivore" type diet), my most recent blood test (before "peat"ing, so c. 6 months ago) showed a blood calcium level in the normal range, a LOW blood phosphorus level despite the large dietary intake, but also relatively low PTH. Whilst PTH was slightly above what Peat considers to be ideal, it was very low in the reference range.

I now supplement calcium to get approx. 1:1 or greater ratio of Ca:P
 

aniciete

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
1,341
Location
United States
Where are you getting your copper from? If it is from liver and oysters only, then it is possibly that you will maintain a high imbalance in zinc to copper (higher zinc relative to copper) which will impair absorption. See my previous comment about the Zinc to Copper ratio in certain foods - it could steer you in the right direction.

Edit: also to add, I wouldn't pay too much attention to serum levels - blood levels are far more accurate for minerals / metals and even then, they are not perfect - it is tissue levels that are more significant, but these are difficult to test...
So what would be a good food to normalize copper levels? Chocolate?
 

BigShoes

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2021
Messages
186
Location
London
So what would be a good food to normalize copper levels? Chocolate?
Fish / most sea food has a high copper to zinc ratio if you are trying to improve copper levels (except the aforementioned oysters).

Chocolate is a good choice, also certain mushrooms too, and sweet potatoes if you can tolerate a bit of starch.
 

daphne134

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
128
I'm not sure why. Maybe it was supplements of B1, or vitamin E, or bleeding in my intestines, or the result of a diet with low vitamin A. This drop occurred in about 2 months. I stopped taking VE and B1.

Yes.
Sorry if I missed something but what is wrong with VE and B1? I thought those were some of the safest if quality is good.
 

Dave Clark

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
1,978
From what i've read heavy metals accumulate over time on hair so if you had a serious buildin it should show up on the hair test.
As far as minerals, to know if you really have deficiency, i've heard about Cutlers protocol for interpretation of the mineralogram tests but no idea how it works.
From what I have read, when a metal is 'high' on hair tests, it shows your body is excreting it, which would counterintuitively say that you aren't toxic with that metal. If the metal shows 'low', then it is saying that the metal is staying in the body, and not being excreted. I don't know how valid that theory is, it is something I have read, and it tends to make a bit of sense logically. I still do not believe the hair tests tell it all, and they seem to be interpreted differently by various practitioners.
 

rayban

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
402
Location
France
From what I have read, when a metal is 'high' on hair tests, it shows your body is excreting it, which would counterintuitively say that you aren't toxic with that metal. If the metal shows 'low', then it is saying that the metal is staying in the body, and not being excreted. I don't know how valid that theory is, it is something I have read, and it tends to make a bit of sense logically. I still do not believe the hair tests tell it all, and they seem to be interpreted differently by various practitioners.
This guy says otherwise:

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskDoctorSmeeee/comments/xlcgc1/comment/ipk7cu5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskDoctorSmeeee/comments/xlcgc1/comment/irrv18u/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
 

GenericName86

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
338
So "this guy" is the all knowing authority on such subjects and being unable to remove mercury at all is 100% a fact?
 

Dave Clark

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
1,978

Well, first of all, it is elementary that most of the Hg is not stored in the hair. Gee, what a galaxy brain this guys has to figure that one out. Secondly, he is more than obviously not educated, since their are MANY studies showing Hg leaving the body through different mechanisms and elimination points. I almost didn't want to waste the energy my fingers needed to type this. Be careful what Reddit people you listen to, in fact, on any forum, and I include myself with that, since people talk with authority that can make a reader feel they are accurate and well researched, they may be, and they may not be.
 

rayban

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
402
Location
France
Well, first of all, it is elementary that most of the Hg is not stored in the hair. Gee, what a galaxy brain this guys has to figure that one out. Secondly, he is more than obviously not educated, since their are MANY studies showing Hg leaving the body through different mechanisms and elimination points. I almost didn't want to waste the energy my fingers needed to type this. Be careful what Reddit people you listen to, in fact, on any forum, and I include myself with that, since people talk with authority that can make a reader feel they are accurate and well researched, they may be, and they may not be.
So how do you guys remove mercury? i've seen people end up worse with chelating protocols and my mercury is still not high enough to bother with this isn't it? what is importnant is to find where the **** the mercury is comming from, which is either the fish, the thermometer that crashed or both. In terms of the fish is easy, stop eating fish, maybe except sardines, but what about the mercury thermometer incident? after you pick all the dropplets, it can remain in the ambience as vapour floating? or it falls to the ground eventually? I contacted and engineer and said that a HEPA filter traps heavy metals in it's fibers so im gonna run this at full force a day and that should be enough? I mean it's been 6 months anyway and I opened the windows, im assuming there has been entire cycles of new air comming and going so im assuming all of the thermomether mercury that may have evaporated is gone and should focus on just no eating fish. Btw shell seafood also have mercury. I saw sardines is the safest and small squids are cool too.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom