Finding Optimal Vitamin A And D Levels And Dandruff/acne

Discussion in 'Skin' started by Ben, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. Ben

    Ben Member

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    Here is the quote from RP that got me interested:

    I have severe dandruff and acne. My acne is facial, chest, and back mostly, but I also get pimples on my legs or butt sometimes. Many are big, filled with pus, and appear cystic in nature, however, experts warn against squeezing pimples because it leaves scars. It's not like it gets rid of the cause (physiology) anyway.

    After I increased my dosage of cynomel by 3 times, and I feel better, my dandruff actually got worse. Since increasing the metabolism increases vitamin requirement, I guess it's because I have even less vitamin A than before. That's what RP said, that with a very high metabolic rate his requirement for vitamin A was huge.

    I ate some liver, and took the standard 200% DV (10,000 IU) per day vitamin A for a few days, but nothing is getting better. My dandruff is horrible now that my metabolic rate is higher, I can comb or shake out the dead skin cells onto a table, then gather them up and make "cakes" out of them.

    RP said carotene accumulated in his callouses when he was taking enough vitamin A. I'm cautious about taking high doses because it can reduce vitamin D, and it can also inhibit the thyroid like unsaturated fats. It can give fetuses birth defects. I'm afraid of its potentially toxic effects. And taking too much vitamin D can lead to soft tissue calcification just like its deficiency can. So while I would know from my callouses if I'm taking enough vitamin A, I don't know what to use as an indication if I'm taking too much or too little vitamin D. I am taking 20 drops Thorne vitamin k2 (dermally) to neutralize bleeding risk of aspirin, as I'm taking several grams per day and RP or someone else recommended a drop (1 mg K2) per 325 mg.

    I might have a slight vitamin D deficiency since I have delayed phase sleep disorder, or in other words I have for years had trouble falling asleep at a regular, early time and don't get enough sleep because of it. The two were correlated if I'm not mistaken.

    USDA placed their vitamin D requirements pretty low, and people take many times the RDA, while the retinol form of vitamin A is often warned about, and people rarely take more than 200% RDA. So I have no idea what the ideal ratio is, and especially considering I probably have a problem with vitamin A deficiency and possibly vitamin D too to some extent.
     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Yeh I have the same dandruff problem too. Got worse as metabolism got better. Been trying to get as much liver and other stuff with A as possible but doesn't seem to be working.
     
  3. j.

    j. Guest

    If you're afraid of vitamin D calcification, good thyroid function is maybe the most important factor in preventing soft tissue calcification. Another one is vitamin K2. So supplementing thyroid is an option if yours is low.
     
  4. OP
    Ben

    Ben Member

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    So I generally don't need to worry about soft tissue calcification from vitamin D then, since my thyroid function is probably above-normal at this point. Is 1250 IU per day a good dosage? Some people recommended a dosage this high.

    How many IU or % RDA are you getting per day? I have a retinyl palmitate supplement, but I have no idea how much to take. It's good that we have a similar problem, I think the same solutions would work for us, so if taking more vitamin A works for me, then you could try it too.

    Also, does RP say liver is anti-metabolic in excess because of vitamin A? Liver is very nutrient-rich in general, and might be able to provide some vitamin A for me, but people on this forum only eat it once a week or so because it's claimed to be "anti-thyroid".
     
  5. j.

    j. Guest

    Since you already supplement with thyroid, other things you can do are vitamin K supplementation, which I think you also do, and consume more calcium than phosphate, which prevents calcification by reducing PTH.
     
  6. j.

    j. Guest

    Liver might be anti-metabolic due to other factors as well, like cysteine.
     
  7. j.

    j. Guest

    Vitamin E helps the body use vitamin A efficiently.
     
  8. OP
    Ben

    Ben Member

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    Maybe Charlie and I have a higher requirement for vitamin E. I had dandruff even with hypothyroidism, and hypothyroid people generally have higher vitamin A levels (see study in "related topics"), so it might be a matter of efficiency. I do recall RP saying this. Have you ever tried vitamin E, Charlie?

    Doing both of these things.
     
  9. tobieagle

    tobieagle Guest

    Dude, i think we have the exact same problems :|
    I think I could compete with the amount of flakes i produce in one day :D

    I cant control my acne and dandruff either ... and im peating since 1,5 years.

    Vitamin E improved my skin a bit though, i drop some on my weekly liver which helps a lot.
     
  10. OP
    Ben

    Ben Member

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    Took 50,000 IU (1000% RDA) vitamin A in the form of retinyl palmitate for several days. I notice that my skin is significantly less oily than before. Still have dandruff.
     
  11. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    I have stopped taking vitamin A for now since I have been eating liver every couple days. No improvement or worsening of symptoms it seems.

    Yes, Ray Peat does say too much liver would be anti thyroid.
     
  12. OP
    Ben

    Ben Member

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    Apparently dandruff is caused by yeast invading the scalp, which is the result of poor immunity. It has a high correlation with anxiety and depression, which is no surprise considering I have excessive stress hormones. The cortisol is what suppresses immunity. I didn't believe it was infectious because I think everyone would have it if it was, but it turns out that mostly stress-prone people get it.

    Vitamin A would help, but some peoples' dandruff doesn't respond to it. Therefore, stress reduction would be the best option. I have physical indications of a high estrogen-progesterone ratio like blood pooling in veins and orthostatic hypotension, thyroid gland autoimmunity (which is much more common in women), and rosacea (also more common in women). Acne and dandruff is probably related too. I made the theory that supplementing vitamin E and progest-E would shift this ratio favorably, so I'll see what that does.
     
  13. staytuned

    staytuned Member

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    So I have has seb dem (flaky scalp) forever and have tried many things... while the problem is not entirely resolved, I did discover a product that helps w/the symptom side (still working on root cause). Company is Moogoo and they are based in AUS I think, their shampoo and conditioner uses milk protein or something (how very ray peat) and I discovered on another thread in a forum I don't remember where. Anyhow, the stuff actually improved my flakes dramatically, enough that I can wear black. They are all natural, etc... apparently they market that you can eat their products (not that I would try it).

    I do notice a strong correlation between stress and skin as well for what it is worth.

    Oh that company also makes a blemish cream (formerly acne cream) that I just bought for my girlfriend who has challenges w/her skin. So far she likes it, but too soon to tell the result. Good luck!
     
  14. OP
    Ben

    Ben Member

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  15. Peata

    Peata Member

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    How much E are you taking?
     
  16. OP
    Ben

    Ben Member

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    I'm not taking vitamin E yet because I haven't got it ordered yet (really need to get my own paypal account). I'll try Unique E, what I have, in coconut oil to dilute the vegetable oil and see if it has positive effects.
     
  17. mujuro

    mujuro Member

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    I had very bad dandruff when my metabolism took off, worse than I have ever had in my life. It was a shock, quite frankly. This was about 3 weeks into the new diet, not having kept up with vitamin supplementation and not having any idea just how fast resources are consumed when you're operating within 36.5-37.7'C

    I searched the forum and came across a fellow poster who mentioned Ray Peat's quote about an experiment with rats and B6. Anyway, I increased my B6 to about 200mg per day, dropped the vitamin A to 5000iu per day. I haven't had any dandruff since, but my scalp gets very dry... my skin was also getting very dry, more so on the areas which are exposed. I could stand over a table and brush an endless supply of dusty skin particles off my face and hands and scalp. Increasing my water intake (which was nil) totally reverted this issue. I know we're supposed to go by thirst, but obviously I need more water intake to keep my skin moisturized, and I feel better for it as well. We're getting into Summer here in Australia, and even moderately warm days sap my fluid content. On top of that I do weight training at a gym with no temperature regulation.

    Now I have a minor issue of too much sebum, which I think may be linked to vitamin A stores, which I may not be getting enough of. I have too much carotene on board right now because I didn't know we were supposed to wash the carrot after we grate it. This is evident in my yellow palms and soles, so I might increase B12 intake to resolve that first. I definitely do feel better after a B12 shot (250mcg methylcobalamin).
     
  18. Parsifal

    Parsifal Member

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    Is the vitamin A in egg yolk enough with a high metabolic rate? Or eating a lot of mussel/oysters?
    I always had bad dandruff with some strange crust :/.
    I noticed that how I am combining my food is very important and that when I was on a low carb diet I had a lot less dandruff, people say that it is candida albicans. Anyone have improvement from their drandruff?
     
  19. answersfound

    answersfound Member

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    If you are not eating liver, vitamin A supplementation is absolutely essential. Egg yolks, cream, etc. won't do it, at least in my experience.
     
  20. answersfound

    answersfound Member

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    Creams, shampoos, etc. do not address the underlying issue. They are band aids that can help, but they should first be addressed with dietary changes, and supplementation, if necessary.
     
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