Low Fat Diet, Dry Skin, Acne

[EIRE24]

Hi folk,

I've wrote before and have asked questions on the forum about my acne.

I've been doing a super low fat for over a year and my skin has become so dry I get a thin layer of yellow flakes that makes my face looked tanned and has to be exfoliated very frequently. I'm wondering if this is due to not having enough fat in my diet to provide moisture or to keep the skin supple?

I've also gotten acne from it that will not go away no matter how much vitamin A or zinc I take. I was thinking it may be a gut issues but I digest everything without problems. I may try an antibiotic but I am scared it may create more gut issues and leave me worse off?

I would love some help putting this all together.

Thanks

 

[Filip1993]

A couple of things that help my acne: no caffeine ( a coke is fine for me though), favouring starches over sugars (wheat, rice, potatoes and sweet potatoes), no diary and a little nicotine helps . I'm not super strict but if I get a lot of outbreaks, this calms everything down.

 

[Filip1993]

A little bit of aspirin daily is helpful for me also.

 

[Filip1993]

Also you mentioned gut problems, this might be worth a read: Nicotine treatment for ulcerative colitis

 

[jaywills]

Sounds like the result of not absorbing vitamins/minerals specifically fat soluble vitamins due to low fat diet.
- What are your reasons for low-fat?
- What leads you to suggest you have 'gut issues' despite "digesting everything fine"?

 

[EIRE24]

Also you mentioned gut problems, this might be worth a read: Nicotine treatment for ulcerative colitis

Thank you for the reply. Those seem to work for me too but it's hard to be super strict like that. I agree with starches over sugar for sure.

 

[EIRE24]

Sounds like the result of not absorbing vitamins/minerals specifically fat soluble vitamins due to low fat diet.
- What are your reasons for low-fat?
- What leads you to suggest you have 'gut issues' despite "digesting everything fine"?

That's what I was thinking too, not absorbing things.

Low fat looked best to me and easiest way to avoid pufa. Seems a lot of people got rid of acne this way. Seems to have backfired for me.

Thoughts for gut issues are because when I initially went low fat i dropped starch and are mostly fruit and gelatin along with meat and a little dairy. It was the red can of gelatin from Great Lakes and I became very sick. Vomiting and diarrea along with headaches. After this the acne came on and I've never had a clear face since

 

[DankMemes]

Doxycycline cleared my skin during my paleo days when i had gut issues.

Maybe carrot salad will help. Glycine and aspirin might help your gut as well.

 

[jaywills]

No PUFA diet is virtually impossible, nor desirable considering the low fat style of eating to achieve this. It has negative impacts on digestion, especially on a higher starch based diet as you alude to.
The negative aspects of PUFA is in the dose, try to aim for as low as possible, preferably <4g. This can be achieved with a focus on butter/coconut oil/animal fats. Ensure such are organic/grass fed to gain a more favourable MUFA/Sat fat ratio.
I would increase fats to a minimum of 20% of calories, if i was you. This should clear up some of your issues. Experiment here mind you, but a little fat with organ meat is a sure fire way to assimilate the host of nutrients held within and I would hazard a guess that nutrients in organ meat (as an example) are the ones you are missing.
Your digestive issues with the red can of gelatin make sense - considering that gelatin is harder to digest than 'green can' version of collagen hydrolysate witnessed through the latter's ability to mix in hot/cold water. Gelatin (red can) sets like a rock with little water, imagine this in your digestive tract - ok for for those with adequate digestive capacities, but not so much for people with issues such as your own.

 

[bohogirl]

A little bit of aspirin daily is helpful for me also.

I just read on another forum someone taking aspirin and it cleared up their cystic acne.

Doxycycline cleared my skin during my paleo days when i had gut issues.

Maybe carrot salad will help. Glycine and aspirin might help your gut as well.

Did you have a worsening period? Currently weighing whether I should take antibiotics or not.

 

[ilovethesea]

Vitamin A helps skin and clears acne, but if you're strictly low fat you might not be absorbing it properly.

Should I Worry About The Bioavailabilty Of Vitamin A On A Low-fat Diet?

Also, how many calories are you eating?

 

[EIRE24]

Vitamin A helps skin and clears acne, but if you're strictly low fat you might not be absorbing it properly.

Should I Worry About The Bioavailabilty Of Vitamin A On A Low-fat Diet?

Also, how many calories are you eating?

Vitamin A does nothing for my skin.

I eat about 3000 calories a day.

That link basically says that you don't need a massive amount of fat to get the vitamins absorbed?

 

[Morning Star]

Ate very low fat fat for 3 months. Got ripped, but skin definitely suffered. Other factors, such as stress, smoking, caffeine also likely contributed. Now, along with quitting smoking,and coffee, while reducing my work load and training intensity, I have begun adding teaspoon of clarified butter to my meals, and begun drinking non-homogenized 2% milk. In less then a weeks time I have seen modest improvement in complexion, which is encouraging.

 

[Atalanta]

That's what I was thinking too, not absorbing things.

Low fat looked best to me and easiest way to avoid pufa. Seems a lot of people got rid of acne this way. Seems to have backfired for me.

Thoughts for gut issues are because when I initially went low fat i dropped starch and are mostly fruit and gelatin along with meat and a little dairy. It was the red can of gelatin from Great Lakes and I became very sick. Vomiting and diarrea along with headaches. After this the acne came on and I've never had a clear face since

Since you made several changes at once, how can you be sure low fat is the problem?
Many people get acne from sugar (even fruit) and diary, even small amounts of dairy. Gelatin/collagen is full of endotoxins and that may have messed up your system.

I seriously doubt that your severe acne is caused by insufficient fat. It is possible that your dry skin is caused by insufficient fat, but you don't need a lot of fat to prevent dry skin or to absorb fat soluble vitamins. Vitamin A is stored in the body so you don't need to ingest it every day. I eat a very lowfat diet and I don't have dry skin and i don't need oil or body lotion, not even in the winter.

You can eat low fat and still include some high fat foods a few times per week. I eat low fat but I also eat nuts or fatty foods a few times per week.
Aspirin never helped my acne, not even high doses, so be careful.

You may have to give in and try antibiotics. Severe acne is very difficult to clear without antibiotics or other drugs.

Maybe first try topical antibiotics and/or other topical acne medications.

 

[Emstar1892]

I eat low fat but I also eat nuts or fatty foods a few times per week.

This could be the crucial difference, though. When I got acne on low fat, I was actually sticking to it every day.

Also, you were probably getting much more vitamin E from the nuts

 

[ilovethesea]

Vitamin A does nothing for my skin.

I eat about 3000 calories a day.

That link basically says that you don't need a massive amount of fat to get the vitamins absorbed?

Oh I thought you were saying you didn't eat any fat.

What is your source of vitamin A and how much did you get up to?

Is your skin actually yellow or is it just the dead skin?

There is a paragraph here where Ray talks about keratinization increasing the rate of cell division... whereas it sounds like what you have is too slow cell division. Blocking Tissue Destruction

Vitamin A's effect on the skin opposes that of estrogen.4 There are several mechanisms that could account for this. Vitamin A is used in the formation of steroids, and since the skin is a major site of steroid metabolism, vitamin A might help to maintain the level of the anti-catabolic steroids. A deficiency of vitamin A causes excessive release of the lysosomal enzymes, acid hydrolases, resulting in tissue catabolism.5 Also, vitamin A is necessary for the proper differentiation of cells in skin and other membranes. A deficiency tends to cause an increased rate of cell division, with the production of abnormal cells, and a substitution of keratinized cells for other types. Estrogen also promotes keratinization and speeds cell division. A deficiency of vitamin A can cause leukoplakia in the mouth and on the cervix of the uterus; although this is considered "pre-cancerous," I have found it to be very easily reversible, as I have discussed elsewhere.6 I suspect that the intracellular fiber, keratin, is produced when a cell can't afford to do anything more complex. Adequate vitamin A speeds protein synthesis,7 and allows it to be used more efficiently.

Someone posted this study which may be related. Unsaturated fatty acids induce calcium influx into keratinocytes and cause abnormal differentiation of epidermis. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[EIRE24]

I dont eat much fat at all. I would say definitely less than 10 grams a day.

My source of vitamin A is liver but I have tried to supplement in the past with different types (never beta carotene) and it seems to make it worse, definitely not better.

Yes, it is yellow from the dead skin.

I would agree that it obviously looks and sounds like I have too slow cell division but its as if the dead skin sticks to my face but when I scrub it away it is oily a bit underneath so my thought was that this oil is keeping the skin cells trapped to my face? I have tried the vitamin A and my highest dose was 50'000 IU but I never did it long term but I do eat liver every week and plenty of it. I wonder if it is just a case that my skin is not moisturised enough and thus pumps out excess oil to compensate for the lack of it?

I am going to enquire about an anti biotic from my doctor which I do not think he will prescribe but worth a try. I am worried about the side effects and what other damage it could do but it is one of the only things I have not tried?

 

[schultz]

I dont eat much fat at all. I would say definitely less than 10 grams a day.

My source of vitamin A is liver but I have tried to supplement in the past with different types (never beta carotene) and it seems to make it worse, definitely not better.

Yes, it is yellow from the dead skin.

I would agree that it obviously looks and sounds like I have too slow cell division but its as if the dead skin sticks to my face but when I scrub it away it is oily a bit underneath so my thought was that this oil is keeping the skin cells trapped to my face? I have tried the vitamin A and my highest dose was 50'000 IU but I never did it long term but I do eat liver every week and plenty of it. I wonder if it is just a case that my skin is not moisturised enough and thus pumps out excess oil to compensate for the lack of it?

I am going to enquire about an anti biotic from my doctor which I do not think he will prescribe but worth a try. I am worried about the side effects and what other damage it could do but it is one of the only things I have not tried?

Do you track your nutrition on cronometer or something similar? Given that you have been such a low-fat diet for a year now it's possible you just need more micro nutrients (more than you think). For example, on a low fat diet, I think the need for vitamin B6 is increased quite a bit. A deficiency of vitamin B6 can cause seborrheic dermatitis. That is just an example and your B6 intake may be fine, but a mild deficiency of any of the fat and water soluble vitamins or any of the minerals is where I would look first before resorting to something else.

There is also an association between low zinc levels and acne (not sure about flaky skin though)

Do you take vitamin K2? Ray has talked about how vitamin K2 is similar in structure certain antibiotics like tetracycline. I don't know if there is much research but K2 may have anti-biotic like effects in the body. @haidut seems to know more about this. When I first heard of this structure similarity I remembered the Chris Masterjohn article where he is talking about Weston Price' "x factor". Dr. Price did all sort of experiments with "activator x", which is apparently just vitamin K2, and in one of these experiments he found that taking it would reduce the bacterial count of peoples saliva.

From the article...

"In a group of six patients, administration of the concentrate reduced the Lactobacillus acidophilus count from 323,000 to 15,000. In one individual, the combination of cod liver oil and Activator X concentrate reduced the L. acidophilus count from 680,000 to 0."

So it may have a real effect on something like acne. Also important to mention that a lot of the vitamins and minerals work together. Dr. Price called it "activator x" because he said it activated other vitamins (specifically vitamin D and A I think).

I think it is at least worth a shot to try some vitamin combinations and record your intake levels. Personally I would try 100,000 IU's of vitamin A a day for at least a month. Make sure to get enough D and K2 at the same time. Oysters for zinc. Something like bananas for B6 (if you like bananas) or you could "cheat" and use supplements.

You could also add coconut oil to your diet, or if you want to maintain a really low PUFA intake, you could add MCT oil or hydrogenated coconut oil (both have zero PUFA). Personally, I probably eat similar to you and I use HCO myself. I tried a low PUFA, low-fat diet and I didn't like it. Once I added HCO I felt perfect. I average about 1g PUFA a day, mostly from fruit and occasional oysters and liver. As an example, yesterday I had a total of 38g of fat, and 30 of those grams was from added HCO, and 1.3g PUFA. 0.9g of the PUFA came from eating beef liver and a cantaloupe. Okay, I'm sounding a little obsessive, but I'm really not. I enjoy my diet and don't mind logging my food (though some people find it really irritating.)

I hope you find a solution!

 

[EIRE24]

Do you track your nutrition on cronometer or something similar? Given that you have been such a low-fat diet for a year now it's possible you just need more micro nutrients (more than you think). For example, on a low fat diet, I think the need for vitamin B6 is increased quite a bit. A deficiency of vitamin B6 can cause seborrheic dermatitis. That is just an example and your B6 intake may be fine, but a mild deficiency of any of the fat and water soluble vitamins or any of the minerals is where I would look first before resorting to something else.

There is also an association between low zinc levels and acne (not sure about flaky skin though)

Do you take vitamin K2? Ray has talked about how vitamin K2 is similar in structure certain antibiotics like tetracycline. I don't know if there is much research but K2 may have anti-biotic like effects in the body. @haidut seems to know more about this. When I first heard of this structure similarity I remembered the Chris Masterjohn article where he is talking about Weston Price' "x factor". Dr. Price did all sort of experiments with "activator x", which is apparently just vitamin K2, and in one of these experiments he found that taking it would reduce the bacterial count of peoples saliva.

From the article...

"In a group of six patients, administration of the concentrate reduced the Lactobacillus acidophilus count from 323,000 to 15,000. In one individual, the combination of cod liver oil and Activator X concentrate reduced the L. acidophilus count from 680,000 to 0."

So it may have a real effect on something like acne. Also important to mention that a lot of the vitamins and minerals work together. Dr. Price called it "activator x" because he said it activated other vitamins (specifically vitamin D and A I think).

I think it is at least worth a shot to try some vitamin combinations and record your intake levels. Personally I would try 100,000 IU's of vitamin A a day for at least a month. Make sure to get enough D and K2 at the same time. Oysters for zinc. Something like bananas for B6 (if you like bananas) or you could "cheat" and use supplements.

You could also add coconut oil to your diet, or if you want to maintain a really low PUFA intake, you could add MCT oil or hydrogenated coconut oil (both have zero PUFA). Personally, I probably eat similar to you and I use HCO myself. I tried a low PUFA, low-fat diet and I didn't like it. Once I added HCO I felt perfect. I average about 1g PUFA a day, mostly from fruit and occasional oysters and liver. As an example, yesterday I had a total of 38g of fat, and 30 of those grams was from added HCO, and 1.3g PUFA. 0.9g of the PUFA came from eating beef liver and a cantaloupe. Okay, I'm sounding a little obsessive, but I'm really not. I enjoy my diet and don't mind logging my food (though some people find it really irritating.)

I hope you find a solution!

Thanks for this. I guess trying the vitamin A at that dose could cause problems. I don't like taking any fat soluble vitamins that I can't balance with the others and it's hard to do if your supplementing.

I am going to begin eating oysters again for zinc as I think I'm definitely low in zinc I don't eat much red meat at all.

I find it tough as when I start to do somethings differently and I see a zit or outbreak I revert back to what I was doing initially.

I'm thinking of just getting an antibiotic and giving it a go for a week in a short course and hoping it clears up any gut trouble and then I will begin to experiment with different vitamins and minerals

 

[milk_lover]

@schultz Interesting info about B6. When I forget to take B6 supplements, my skin becomes dry. I take some B6, I get very smooth skin as if it was oiled up by coconut oil. Speaking of hydrogenated coconut oil, I ordered some from TKB Trading and it is the only coconut oil that I don't gag on it and it generally gives me positive results like increased thyroid function. I take 3 tablespoons of it a day and it's almost like a miracle supplement.