What Happens On An All Meat Diet?

[TeaRex14]

Can other people relay their experiences? Positive and negative anecdotes are much appreciated! I'm vegetarian and don't see myself ever consuming flesh, but was wondering if it is beneficial to increase the integration of dairy products in the diet. Thanks in advance!

Just the new trendy fad going around now days. You can go to YouTube, type in "carnivore diet", and have a plethora of pseudointellectuals ready to tell you why you should never eat another plant food. From what I can tell, the carnivore community if filled with basically two types of people, vegan reactionaries and former ketoers who simply thought keto wasn't "good enough". The vegan reactionaries are perhaps the most vocal, like sv3rige's channel for instance. Truth is you should probably stay far away from this community. For one, they're just flat out wrong. But also their cultist behavior is influential on anyone looking to better their nutrition. A lot of them take the stance of "eat like our ancestors ate." Just to throw a key fact out there, the average carbohydrate consumption for our primitive ancestors was between 20-30% (few exceptions of course, like the Inuit, who were unhealthy). This of course wildly varies on your geographical location, but even on the lower side of the average, we weren't even close to the low carb/no carb zones these people are recommending. All this said, I think the edition of protein via dairy is a very good choice. Lots of calcium for one thing, which enhances the metabolic rate. But also milk is only like 3% protein, so it's really hard to overdo it in regards to protein. 2 quarts of milk only provides a little over 60 grams of protein. The only thing to be mindful of is high amounts of calcium can deplete copper status in the body.

 

[sebastian_r]

@agnar

have tried peats approach for several months.

It did not work for me.

Fruits are bad for my teeth and gums, I get stomach problems from some, and brain fog.

Dairy gives me digestion problems and makes me sleepy / tired and not the best mood.

Rice and Potatoes gives me social anxiety / depression and skin problems.
(tested as well all supplements, vit a showed some promise / improvement but got severe side effects from it)

Then I tried meat only, zero problems.

The only problem I had came from trying to implement some additional stuff with dairy fat and collagen.

I'm still not giving up on peats approach, because being able to eat sugar and having more variety is more appealing than just eating meat, but the results I'm getting are simply not good.

 

[Runenight201]

@agnar

have tried peats approach for several months.

It did not work for me.

Fruits are bad for my teeth and gums, I get stomach problems from some, and brain fog.

Dairy gives me digestion problems and makes me sleepy / tired and not the best mood.

Rice and Potatoes gives me social anxiety / depression and skin problems.
(tested as well all supplements, vit a showed some promise / improvement but got severe side effects from it)

Then I tried meat only, zero problems.

The only problem I had came from trying to implement some additional stuff with dairy fat and collagen.

I'm still not giving up on peats approach, because being able to eat sugar and having more variety is more appealing than just eating meat, but the results I'm getting are simply not good.

Dairy mixed with bitter chocolate and sugar helps substantially with digestion, should you be willing to give it a try again

 

[sebastian_r]

I think I have experienced the dairy with sugar effect in the past, ice cream (high in sugar) I have zero problems with, feel great after eating it.

 

[Cirion]

Low carb brought my temps down to 96F. We're trying to save people the pain. I agree Dr. Peat is not right on everything, but he's definitely right on carbs. "Trying peat and failing" is way too simplistic a statement. There is no "specific" way to "try peat" except some of the more general guidelines like don't avoid sugar, don't eat PUFA, etc. Everyone's specific application may include or exlude some foods. Also other aspects besides nutrition matter significantly like optimizing your environment (altitude, beach, tropical climate, getting out of bad jobs/relationships etc... If you failed I daresay it's not because of Peat, it's because of your specific approach. Sorry if I am sounding rude, I legitimately am trying to prevent someone else from going down the road I did when I thought I had fructose / dairy intolerance and had to go low FODMAP (and thus I did a high meat low carb diet) and crashed and burned HARD.

BTW - most OJ and milk is DEAD food and will DAMAGE your metabolism not heal it. THIS is where most people fail. OJ is only healing if its (organic) fresh preshed (best to do it yourself), and milk is only good food if it is RAW MILK and ideally drink the DAY YOU MILKED THE COW. This is based upon new research I've personally done. Commercial milk is DEAD (pasteurization literally destroys the life giving energy of milk) and won't heal you. Because nearly every newbie to peat is familiar with the infamous "2 quarts of OJ a day and 1 gallon of milk a day" (or however that quote goes), this is a reasonable way to destroy your health if the OJ and milk is poor quality. Now, if you own your own farm and fresh presh your own fresh organic oranges and milk and drink from your own grass-fed cows. That's a totally different story.

I bet no one is going to listen to me still, but hey, I tried.

 

[Runenight201]

Low carb brought my temps down to 96F. We're trying to save people the pain. I agree Dr. Peat is not right on everything, but he's definitely right on carbs. "Trying peat and failing" is way too simplistic a statement. There is no "specific" way to "try peat" except some of the more general guidelines like don't avoid sugar, don't eat PUFA, etc. Everyone's specific application may include or exlude some foods. Also other aspects besides nutrition matter significantly like optimizing your environment (altitude, beach, tropical climate, getting out of bad jobs/relationships etc... If you failed I daresay it's not because of Peat, it's because of your specific approach. Sorry if I am sounding rude, I legitimately am trying to prevent someone else from going down the road I did when I thought I had fructose / dairy intolerance and had to go low FODMAP (and thus I did a high meat low carb diet) and crashed and burned HARD.

BTW - most OJ and milk is DEAD food and will DAMAGE your metabolism not heal it. THIS is where most people fail. OJ is only healing if its (organic) fresh preshed (best to do it yourself), and milk is only good food if it is RAW MILK and ideally drink the DAY YOU MILKED THE COW. This is based upon new research I've personally done. Commercial milk is DEAD (pasteurization literally destroys the life giving energy of milk) and won't heal you. Because nearly every newbie to peat is familiar with the infamous "2 quarts of OJ a day and 1 gallon of milk a day" (or however that quote goes), this is a reasonable way to destroy your health if the OJ and milk is poor quality. Now, if you own your own farm and fresh presh your own fresh organic oranges and milk and drink from your own grass-fed cows. That's a totally different story.

I bet no one is going to listen to me still, but hey, I tried.

I agree with the sentiment of fresh pressed and raw being better, but for many people it’s unrealistic to achieve this without extra effort. But I wouldn’t agree with these foods as dead foods and offer no nutritional benefit, as I personally think that may be taking things too far. There are still micronutrients in all of these foods, but they may not be as high in quantity and with the additional enzymes and what not that the higher quality foods would have.

I’d rather consume pasteurized milk, store bought oj, and grain fed meat then eat a white rice, bread, potato, and legumes diet.

I think it’s better to incorporate these foods to the extent possible, and then when the means present themselves, upgrade to the next tier of higher quality foods.

 

[Cirion]

Sorry maybe I should clarify. When I say "Dead" foods it does not provide benefit or even detracts from the overall "Angstrom" energy of the body specifically. You may get a few nutrients and some macronutrients to help sustain you in the short-term but you can't obtain long-term health while continuing to eat foods like that long-term.

The best example of this is most high PUFA SAD foods and fast foods, donuts. Sure they keep you alive by providing calories, but they're not long term health promoting at all. It's a bit unfair probably to compare low quality milk to a donut, but just trying to explain what I mean.

 

[yeggim]

agnar knows.

He certainly does. He's describing exactly what happened to me and the reason I'm here. My crash wasn't overnight -- it was shorter. Woke up and by lunchtime it felt like I blew my left knee out on the football field. By evening both knees were stiff and painful to the point where it was affecting my balance.

 

[Glassy]

I find it a little amusing how we’re so quick to trash the cultish nature of the carnivore movement (which is ironically also trashing the vegan movement) while at the same time saying you’re just not Peating right. At least we’re not telling people you just need time to adjust.

I don’t think Peat would ever recommend a carnivore diet and I think he’d be concerned about the amount of animal flesh consumed. I also don’t think he recommend a vegan diet, but you can still apply Peat’s approach and make food choices that are more aligned with your desires.

I’m interested in how you could apply Peat’s principles to make the carnivore approach more balanced. It’s a bit hard to address the lack of carbohydrates (except with milk maybe?) but I think it could be quite nutritious and potentially healing for some people. I think you would need to encorpororate organ meats (liver in moderation) and possibly gelatine in some form. I think dairy and eggs would also be good. If you were to then add fruit to the mix it would start looking pretty peatish (although admittedly more omnivorous).

The dead foods factor is an interesting one too. Many of the carnivores seem to be eating a lot of raw or very undercooked animal products presumably for the same reasons. Maybe it’s for shock factor or because they are obsessed with being the caveman, but the long term carnivores seem to prefer their meat and organs on the raw side. Overcooked meat does seem pretty lifeless.

 

[CatCat]

Can other people relay their experiences? Positive and negative anecdotes are much appreciated! I'm vegetarian and don't see myself ever consuming flesh, but was wondering if it is beneficial to increase the integration of dairy products in the diet. Thanks in advance!

Hi, I'm a newbie to Ray Peat forum. I tried the Carnivore diet for 15 months. I felt great in the beginning but had to stop because I've become very sensitive and developed allergies to many spices, coffee, tea and also dairy. In the last months I could not fall asleep before 2 or 3 am. I was so tired. I started to lose my hair and regularly get stomach flu.
Before that diet I went raw vegan for nearly 3 years. I had to stop it for health issues and adopted a vegetarian diet. After that I tried the ketogenic diet for 2 years.
I have to admit that all these diets are not working for my body in the long run. I think because they are based on too simplistic principles and tend to ignore the complexity of the body.

 

[Glassy]

Hi, I'm a newbie to Ray Peat forum. I tried the Carnivore diet for 15 months. I felt great in the beginning but had to stop because I've become very sensitive and developed allergies to many spices, coffee, tea and also dairy. In the last months I could not fall asleep before 2 or 3 am. I was so tired. I started to lose my hair and regularly get stomach flu.
Before that diet I went raw vegan for nearly 3 years. I had to stop it for health issues and adopted a vegetarian diet. After that I tried the ketogenic diet for 2 years.
I have to admit that all these diets are not working for my body in the long run. I think because they are based on too simplistic principles and tend to ignore the complexity of the body.

That’s an interesting journey CatCat. So you went from raw vegan to keto to carnivore?

It sounds like you were suffering from stress.

As I wade through this carnivore stuff, I’m fascinated by the emphasis on fish and fish eggs for omega 3. It seems they’re totally against the omega 6 oils but still caught up in the EFA hype.

It seems grass fed ruminant animals are preferred but I’ve seen an awful lot of pics of deep fried chicken, pork chops and bacon.

How are you going incorporating carbs back into your diet?

 

[lvysaur]

Actually, all people of European descent are cellulose intolerant.

So they're right, carnivorism is a suitable solution.

 

[Makrosky]

Guys, just to be clear.... when you say "fixed all of my/his problems" you mean it fixed them as long as you/he was following the all meat diet, right ? As soon as you go back to a more balanced diet, the problems come back. Do I get it right ?

I am asking this because for me a "cure" is a "cure". Not a temporary remedy.

 

[sebastian_r]

Guys, just to be clear.... when you say "fixed all of my/his problems" you mean it fixed them as long as you/he was following the all meat diet, right ? As soon as you go back to a more balanced diet, the problems come back. Do I get it right ?

I am asking this because for me a "cure" is a "cure". Not a temporary remedy.

Yes, you stop eating the plants / food that are causing problems and the problems go away. You start eating the plants that are causing problems again....problems come back. It's an elimination diet.

 

[Glassy]

Yes, you stop eating the plants / food that are causing problems and the problems go away. You start eating the plants that are causing problems again....problems come back. It's an elimination diet.

So eat all meat first then maybe add a seasonal fruit, once that fruit seems to not give problems well cooked potatoes? Another fruit, milk?

 

[sebastian_r]

So eat all meat first then maybe add a seasonal fruit, once that fruit seems to not give problems well cooked potatoes? Another fruit, milk?

Most people who add something outside of animal products seem to do well with starch white rice, potatoes, white bread.

That's what I'm currently doing as well.

Added those three and working well so far.

Fruits i get problems from, fruit jelly seems to be alright.

Many drink milk or eat cheese as addition to carnivore.

 

[somuch4food]

Actually, all people of European descent are cellulose intolerant.

So they're right, carnivorism is a suitable solution.

Where did you find this information?

 

[lvysaur]

Where did you find this information?

It's freely available information. I was also making a sarcastic joke (being that everyone is cellulose intolerant, yet we still eat plant foods anyway, while people think that 60% of the population should stay away from dairy)

 

[Glassy]

From Wikipedia:

Some animals, particularly ruminants and termites, can digest cellulose with the help of symbiotic micro-organisms that live in their guts, such as Trichonympha. In human nutrition, cellulose is a non-digestible constituent of insoluble dietary fiber, acting as a hydrophilic bulking agent for feces and potentially aiding in defecation.

 

[Glassy]

They’re basically starches I’d consider Peatish (as long as the whitebread didn’t have PUFA). Do you eat them with the animal products or do you seperate them?

So did you try the fruit by itself or was it in combination?