Craving Chocolate Cookies

[Ryan18]

Has anyone experienced a similar craving or can suggest an explanation? Diet info below, along with some speculation:

I consume a diet based upon fruits, milk, fruit juices, well-cooked potatoes and mushrooms, eggs, liver once per week, gelatinous cuts of meat such as lamb shoulder/neck. I salt my food, sugar my milk, supplement Tocovit after coming off of a high PUFA diet that has had its impact. I've begun supplementing magnesium, believing it may have been the missing link and it has reaped some benefits.
I should be introducing oysters once per week soon, particularly as a means for increasing zinc intake.

I have a feeling my overall caloric intake may be too low for a young adult male, so possibly I subconsciously realise that cookies are a caloricly dense source, or that the PUFA suppresses metabolism to reduce hunger? I'm just speculating at this point.

It may be a simple desire for the taste that I need to get over, but it seems that cravings typically stem from some deficiency or requirement.

 

[YourUniverse]

Do you crave specifically chocolate, or the chocolate cookies? I also went through a period of chocolate cravings, but not the cookies. I think cravings shouldnt be ignored, but maybe indulging in less PUFA laden fare is best (cookies are usually made with canola oil)

 

[Taotatoes]

The best homemade cookies are normally made with butter and can definitely be made "Ray Peat friendly" if you're avoiding grains (coconut flour works great). So I say bake the cookies! Ice cream is great fix for cookie cravings IMO if you're unable to bake.

Are you currently eating intuitively or tracking calories?

 

[Ryan18]

The best homemade cookies are normally made with butter and can definitely be made "Ray Peat friendly" if you're avoiding grains (coconut flour works great). So I say bake the cookies! Ice cream is great fix for cookie cravings IMO if you're unable to bake.

Are you currently eating intuitively or tracking calories?

I'll keep that advice in mind, thank you. I'm loosely tracking calories but mostly eating intuitively, but a lot of the time my resting hunger is pretty poor

 

[morgan#1]

I have a feeling my overall caloric intake may be too low for a young adult male

Just so you have a gauge....i’m female, 5’4” 122 pounds and I eat 2,800-3,200 cals. Not a lot of fat though, muscles really require, for me, loads of calories.

Also, there is a “cheat day” and I believe it revs up my metabolism...a lot of calories for one day. Maybe you could do a sleeve of pro Ray Peat style chocolate cookies. I agree with a couple posts back that cravings should be taken seriously.

Ps I’m not that hungry, I just know that I need that many calories. Because I maintain even when I’m sedentary (sedentary, probably 2,600- 2,700...

Oh I do lifting around 3 days a week.

 

[tara]

I have a feeling my overall caloric intake may be too low for a young adult male, so possibly I subconsciously realise that cookies are a caloricly dense source, or that the PUFA suppresses metabolism to reduce hunger? I'm just speculating at this point.

If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend running a couple of typical or average days diet through cronometer or similar to get a rough idea what you are getting from your food. Look for obvious gaps, as well as overall calories. No doubt needs vary a bit from person to person, but rough order of magnitude, normal calories for an adult male are probably around 3000 cals, 3500 for a young man still growing and maturing up to the age of about 25. If you are eating way below that on regular basis, or you are extra active and needing more, then it's important. Long term energy deficit can have significant downsides.
(Don't believe cronometer's calorie suggestions - that site is about calorie reduction and tends to underestimate needs.)

It may be a simple desire for the taste that I need to get over, but it seems that cravings typically stem from some deficiency or requirement.

If a couple of cookies now and then are going to make you happy and satisfy that craving, and you don't get any problematic symptoms from them, why not just eat them?
If you are not eating enough overall, it would be good to address that.
If you are missing some specific nutritients, you could see which foods you could add to fill them in.
If you want lots of cookies, you could find or modify a recipe to suit your needs.
If you love chocolate, and it doesn't make you sick, then I'm not going to talk you into getting over it - I'd rather you find a way to enjoy it that works for you.

 

[Ryan18]

Do you crave specifically chocolate, or the chocolate cookies? I also went through a period of chocolate cravings, but not the cookies. I think cravings shouldnt be ignored, but maybe indulging in less PUFA laden fare is best (cookies are usually made with canola oil)

It's a mixture of both, more towards the cookies though. Exactly the PUFA in these is probably the limiting factor to my diet currently, besides overall quantity of food.

Just so you have a gauge....i’m female, 5’4” 122 pounds and I eat 2,800-3,200 cals. Not a lot of fat though, muscles really require, for me, loads of calories.

Also, there is a “cheat day” and I believe it revs up my metabolism...a lot of calories for one day. Maybe you could do a sleeve of pro Ray Peat style chocolate cookies. I agree with a couple posts back that cravings should be taken seriously.

Ps I’m not that hungry, I just know that I need that many calories. Because I maintain even when I’m sedentary (sedentary, probably 2,600- 2,700...

Oh I do lifting around 3 days a week.

I'm glad you reminded me about cheat days. I remember also from a Generative Energy podcast Georgi suggested that they should be mandatory. How often are your cheat days? And how do you time them alongside lifting days for optimal benefit?

If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend running a couple of typical or average days diet through cronometer or similar to get a rough idea what you are getting from your food. Look for obvious gaps, as well as overall calories. No doubt needs vary a bit from person to person, but rough order of magnitude, normal calories for an adult male are probably around 3000 cals, 3500 for a young man still growing and maturing up to the age of about 25. If you are eating way below that on regular basis, or you are extra active and needing more, then it's important. Long term energy deficit can have significant downsides.
(Don't believe cronometer's calorie suggestions - that site is about calorie reduction and tends to underestimate needs.)


If a couple of cookies now and then are going to make you happy and satisfy that craving, and you don't get any problematic symptoms from them, why not just eat them?
If you are not eating enough overall, it would be good to address that.
If you are missing some specific nutritients, you could see which foods you could add to fill them in.
If you want lots of cookies, you could find or modify a recipe to suit your needs.
If you love chocolate, and it doesn't make you sick, then I'm not going to talk you into getting over it - I'd rather you find a way to enjoy it that works for you.

Thank you for the detailed response Tara! I use Cronometer and make sure my nutrition is well covered. I do lack in calories though. For a 19y/o male, by those standards 2500 is nowhere near adequate and I've been skeptical of this for a while. My appetite holds me back the most from consuming more calories, so would you advise raising metabolism through thyroid and sugar, and maybe looking for more calorie-dense foods as a reasonable starting point?

I want to limit my PUFA intake as far as I possibly can. 2/3 years of excessive consumption, combined with other poor practices, has taken its toll on my health, my skin in particular.

 

[Lilac]

Cookies and milk is a classic for good reason--especially in its original form: homemade cookies made from butter, eggs, flour without iron or glyphosate, milk without hormones or added vitamins. Such a good snack for healthy, active kids in the olden days. If you can make your own cookies with good ingredients, don't sweat it. Enjoy.

 

[tara]

My appetite holds me back the most from consuming more calories, so would you advise raising metabolism through thyroid and sugar, and maybe looking for more calorie-dense foods as a reasonable starting point?

I'm not an expert, so this is just my ideas, not medical advice. You get to figure out what you think will work for you. My thoughts:

Not sure I understand about your appetite holding you back. Isn't your appetite for cookies asking you to eat more?

I generally recommend meeting basic needs first, and seeing if that resolves things, before considering thyroid supps (unless there are strong clear indicators of serious hypothyroid state). I think the body can respond to deficiencies and stress by reducing metabolism, and adding thyroid supps to overrride that can result in worse stress or deficiencies.
Nutrition
Sleep
Sunlight
Movement
Breathing/CO2
I generally recommend mainly eating food, and that means getting carbs from eating roots, fruits, veges etc, not too much highly refined sugars because they lack minerals etc (but a little is probably fine for most people). Peat does not generally recommend grains and pulses as major staples, but you may be fine with including some - varies from person to person. If you have difficulty eating enough, then eating is probably more important than eating perfectly (except if there are particular foods that give you problem symptoms).
Find and learn to prepare food that is tasty. If you need more calorie dense food, you can try adding a bit of dried fruit, chocolate, mashing your spud s with butter or cream, rich custardy desserts, etc. Looking at your diet, I'd be missing vegetables.
If you are looking for appetising and/or calorie-dense food, then you can look up recipes for things that look good and experiment, modifying if you need to.

The best homemade cookies are normally made with butter and can definitely be made "Ray Peat friendly" if you're avoiding grains (coconut flour works great). So I say bake the cookies!

Cookies and milk is a classic for good reason--especially in its original form: homemade cookies made from butter, eggs, flour without iron or glyphosate, milk without hormones or added vitamins. Such a good snack for healthy, active kids in the olden days. If you can make your own cookies with good ingredients, don't sweat it. Enjoy.
+1.
Cookies made with PUFA are a newfangled invention. You can make them with butter and/or coconut oil. Even a bit of cocoa butter if you want. :) If you have reason to avoid wheat or gluten or grains, there are variants. There's a brownie recipe on the forum here, too:
Brownies With 4 Ingredients-raypeat Approved Ingredients-

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Had a craving earlier for a Mounds candy bar. I guess it is slightly excusable since it at least is low PUFA, but I kind of slipped.

I just wanted something to eat at that moment and it became a Mounds bar.

I guess this isn't too bad of a thing, no?

Definitely wouldn't do it everyday of course.

Not sure I can explain why some PUFA cravings would come up, but maybe it has to do with low calories as you said you're in that boat (like me).

I'm having a conundrum now where I am sort of forced to restrict calories (sometimes) in order to not be so PUFA drenched since it is in nearly everything and far too easy to "slip" with it.....

 

[tara]

Real chocolate is pretty low PUFA. Made with cacao solids, sugar and optionally milk as the main ingredients.
(There are ones made with other vege oils/fats.)

If you have a food processor, there are balls and things you can make with cocoa, dates, coconut, etc that can be pretty satisfying.

 

[morgan#1]

How often are your cheat days? And how do you time them alongside lifting days for optimal benefit?

just one day, hadn’t thought about more. Usually I eat a lot of simple sugars lifting days, rice and complex carbs later after I lift, (Obviously protein and fats; I do 120-140 protein, and around 18-20% fat; carbs it’s variable, 400-maybe 600, in a cheat day). Also I think one day I do at least 25% fat, interesting when I do at least 20% fat as opposed to 8-10% fat, used to do that, my stomach is lean the next day. But doing simple sugars, I definitely need replacing more often (probably every 3 hours+,before when I started doing Peat it was every 2).

starch (potatoes, rice, every once in a while sourdough) on my days off from lifting. I just find that I feel the starches in my stomach too long for me to focus on weightlifting. And slow carbs. They make me sorta tired, and mellow.

One exception with starch on days when I work out: I’m loving these Birch Bender’s protein pancakes. They’re really good. I make them with coconut oil and then I have a maple syrup. Actually those are once a month deals, and I have them AFTER I’ve worked out. But they’re made with (whole wheat?) flour. If those kind of things bother you. For me I was very strict with Peat, and then I loosened up; well flour once a month, lol.

I’m pretty low on the pufas, I try to keep it below 4, I’m loving it when it’s 2.5. And my metabolism has gotten stronger. (I’m not “better”, but that’s somewhat dialed in.) I never would’ve thought two years ago that I wouldnt be running 8 miles 5 days a week, and doing hot yoga 3 days, feeling that I had to do that to get the body I wanted. I feel stronger and more capable at the gym. And I actually think that I feel comfortable in my skin.

Also, I take a tumbler full of “sugar”: grape juice, lemonade, etc, and some coconut water with beta alanine and a little salt, with me to the gym.

 

[johnwester130]

Has anyone experienced a similar craving or can suggest an explanation? Diet info below, along with some speculation:

I consume a diet based upon fruits, milk, fruit juices, well-cooked potatoes and mushrooms, eggs, liver once per week, gelatinous cuts of meat such as lamb shoulder/neck. I salt my food, sugar my milk, supplement Tocovit after coming off of a high PUFA diet that has had its impact. I've begun supplementing magnesium, believing it may have been the missing link and it has reaped some benefits.
I should be introducing oysters once per week soon, particularly as a means for increasing zinc intake.

I have a feeling my overall caloric intake may be too low for a young adult male, so possibly I subconsciously realise that cookies are a caloricly dense source, or that the PUFA suppresses metabolism to reduce hunger? I'm just speculating at this point.

It may be a simple desire for the taste that I need to get over, but it seems that cravings typically stem from some deficiency or requirement.

Bonne Maman Coconut Croquants​

coconut oil made biscuits

also

French Click - Bonne Maman Galettes Fines au Beurre Frais (6x2) 170g

(BISC) Bonne Maman Galette Butter Biscuits (6x2) 170g

www.frenchclick.co.uk

 

[johnwester130]

just one day, hadn’t thought about more. Usually I eat a lot of simple sugars lifting days, rice and complex carbs later after I lift, (Obviously protein and fats; I do 120-140 protein, and around 18-20% fat; carbs it’s variable, 400-maybe 600, in a cheat day). Also I think one day I do at least 25% fat, interesting when I do at least 20% fat as opposed to 8-10% fat, used to do that, my stomach is lean the next day. But doing simple sugars, I definitely need replacing more often (probably every 3 hours+,before when I started doing Peat it was every 2).

starch (potatoes, rice, every once in a while sourdough) on my days off from lifting. I just find that I feel the starches in my stomach too long for me to focus on weightlifting. And slow carbs. They make me sorta tired, and mellow.

One exception with starch on days when I work out: I’m loving these Birch Bender’s protein pancakes. They’re really good. I make them with coconut oil and then I have a maple syrup. Actually those are once a month deals, and I have them AFTER I’ve worked out. But they’re made with (whole wheat?) flour. If those kind of things bother you. For me I was very strict with Peat, and then I loosened up; well flour once a month, lol.

I’m pretty low on the pufas, I try to keep it below 4, I’m loving it when it’s 2.5. And my metabolism has gotten stronger. (I’m not “better”, but that’s somewhat dialed in.) I never would’ve thought two years ago that I wouldnt be running 8 miles 5 days a week, and doing hot yoga 3 days, feeling that I had to do that to get the body I wanted. I feel stronger and more capable at the gym. And I actually think that I feel comfortable in my skin.

Also, I take a tumbler full of “sugar”: grape juice, lemonade, etc, and some coconut water with beta alanine and a little salt, with me to the gym.

you can get french biscuits with just flour, eggs and coconut oil

Bonne Maman Coconut Croquants​

 

[johnwester130]

Cookies and milk is a classic for good reason--especially in its original form: homemade cookies made from butter, eggs, flour without iron or glyphosate, milk without hormones or added vitamins. Such a good snack for healthy, active kids in the olden days. If you can make your own cookies with good ingredients, don't sweat it. Enjoy.

some french companies make biscuits with just flour, eggs and butter/coconut oil

see above