Vitamin A Debate - Takeaways? Safe To Supplement Or Not?

[AnonE]

I've seen, and tried keeping up with, the massive vitamin A debate thread, where this Grant fellow claims it's toxic. I tried reading through some of the thread (it's a lot), and I'd really appreciate a summary and some actionable insights going forwards. Otherwise I'm just going back to self-experimentation.

Some notes I've made:

- It seems some people think his issues could be Vit D deficiency (possible with excessive Vit A).
- ^ If this is the case, then what's a safe ratio of A : D ?
- What forms of Vitamin A are appropriate for supplementation? Say if you're doing 5K - 10K vitamin D already.
- From an elimination diet, I notice I crave vegetable more than ever even though I don't usually care for them. Maybe this is Vitamin A craving.. I feel great after a random salad for example. My general diet is beef/steak, white rice, orange juice, some chocolate, cheese, other random things in small amounts.

Thanks for any help sorting through this.

 

[tankasnowgod]

No doubt, it's incredibly long, and I can see a ton of potential issues. I am certainly not sold on the idea that it is always a toxin. But lot's of people may certainly be carrying around a toxic amount of A.

Remember, there is no vitamin A in any plant food..... but many can have lots of Beta Carotene, which may (or may not) be converted to Vitamin A in the body.

Maybe the biggest takeway for me in that thread is that the common forms of supplemental A don't carry the natural animal protection that would you get from eating dairy, eggs or liver. The safest form would be from desiccated liver, in my opinion.

Any reason you are considering it? Based on your listed diet, you are only getting some A from cheese, and some Beta Carotene from OJ. Neither is a huge source.

 

[AnonE]

I would consider it as I've read it's important to testosterone production and a deficit and result in lethargy, two important things to me to keep in good shape given my demanding schedule and personal life.

I think going for animal liver 2x/week or something like that is safer and probably more enjoyable longer-term. Plus it will help me not develop orthorexia lol. I swear if I could just eat beef+rice and find the perfect supplement combo, I would. Eating is nice but it can be a chore. Variety is a good safety net I find though.

 

[somuch4food]

From an elimination diet, I notice I crave vegetable more than ever even though I don't usually care for them. Maybe this is Vitamin A craving.. I feel great after a random salad for example

You could try going for low carotene veggies when you get your craving and see if you feel satisfied. That would be a good way to know.

I'm personally following a low A diet at the moment. I know it makes a difference for me, but haven't yet tried to challenge whether its only carotenoids or also retinol from animal products. I've had a so so experience with dairy.

Going low A resolves seasonal depression for me and improves my focus. I get these improvements within a few days. Whenever I eat more A (usually because of social settings), my depression comes back, I have less energy and I get constipated.

 

[Cirion]

It is things like these and others that make me wish I could access an on-board computer to track my nutrient levels and hormones real-time like "engine life monitoring" we use in the engineering world... ohhh how much easier this health journey would be.... lol sigh

 

[Blossom]

It is things like these and others that make me wish I could access an on-board computer to track my nutrient levels and hormones real-time like "engine life monitoring" we use in the engineering world... ohhh how much easier this health journey would be.... lol sigh

You should develop something like the insulin pump that monitors hormones and nutrients through out the day. I love engineers after having my biggest health breakthroughs/improvements last year from the work of 2 engineers.

 

[TeaRex14]

I've seen, and tried keeping up with, the massive vitamin A debate thread, where this Grant fellow claims it's toxic. I tried reading through some of the thread (it's a lot), and I'd really appreciate a summary and some actionable insights going forwards. Otherwise I'm just going back to self-experimentation.

Some notes I've made:

- It seems some people think his issues could be Vit D deficiency (possible with excessive Vit A).
- ^ If this is the case, then what's a safe ratio of A : D ?
- What forms of Vitamin A are appropriate for supplementation? Say if you're doing 5K - 10K vitamin D already.
- From an elimination diet, I notice I crave vegetable more than ever even though I don't usually care for them. Maybe this is Vitamin A craving.. I feel great after a random salad for example. My general diet is beef/steak, white rice, orange juice, some chocolate, cheese, other random things in small amounts.

Thanks for any help sorting through this.

I don't think it's a simple yes or no answer. Vitamin A requirements depend a lot on your thyroid function and metabolism. For this reason everyone is going to be different. The more hypothyroid you are, the less vitamin A you generally need. I don't believe this is a nutrient you want to purposefully restrict through an elimination diet however, vitamin A works in conjunction with glucose and iodine to make endogenous thyroxin (T4). It's also used along with cholesterol to promote endogenous steroid conversion.

 

[Cirion]

I don't think it's a simple yes or no answer. Vitamin A requirements depend a lot on your thyroid function and metabolism. For this reason everyone is going to be different. The more hypothyroid you are, the less vitamin A you generally need. I don't believe this is a nutrient you want to purposefully restrict through an elimination diet however, vitamin A works in conjunction with glucose and iodine to make endogenous thyroxin (T4). It's also used along with cholesterol to promote endogenous steroid conversion.

This seems to be the point of contention. If you read Nathan Hatch's book he takes the opposite stance - Vitamin A is fundamental to curing hypothyroid according to him.

 

[TeaRex14]

This seems to be the point of contention. If you read Nathan Hatch's book he takes the opposite stance - Vitamin A is fundamental to curing hypothyroid according to him.

I'm not familiar with his work. Is he saying vitamin A is crucial for thyroid recovery? Or is he saying hypothyroid people need larger amounts of it than normal people?

 

[Peatful]

Dr. Ray Peat, Ph.D - Lots of Great Insights on the Critical Functions of Thyroid and Much More - January 24, 2019 - One Radio Network

Ray himself talks about it in this recent interview.
To me it was worth the time to listen.

 

[Braveheart]

Dr. Ray Peat, Ph.D - Lots of Great Insights on the Critical Functions of Thyroid and Much More - January 24, 2019 - One Radio Network
Thank you!
Ray himself talks about it in this recent interview.
To me it was worth the time to listen.

 

[Braveheart]

Dr. Ray Peat, Ph.D - Lots of Great Insights on the Critical Functions of Thyroid and Much More - January 24, 2019 - One Radio Network

Ray himself talks about it in this recent interview.
To me it was worth the time to listen.

Thank you!

 

[jmojo]

Chris Masterjohn talks about this in his latest podcast. Fast forward to the 1 hour and 29 minute mark: https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2019/02/24/ask-anything-nutrition-feb-17-2019/

 

[Doublecapricorn]

I'm not familiar with his work. Is he saying vitamin A is crucial for thyroid recovery? Or is he saying hypothyroid people need larger amounts of it than normal people?

He (Grant Genereux) is saying Vitamin A causes issues and to improve thyroid, avoid Vitamin A.

 

[postman]

It has nothing to do with Vitamin D levels. If you're drinking orange juice and eating cheese you're not on an elimination diet.