Advice On Labs - Prolactin/Cholesterol And Moving Forward

[Tide]

Labs are attached. @haidut @Brian

Points of note - I am a late 20s male. I was fresh off of coming off of 3 weeks of Aspirin(650mg avg) and using ~2G of Glycine through the use of Great Lakes Collagen. I was also using 1/2-3/4 of a tab of Cynomel daily. Goal was to improve my health, though it looks like it backfired on me.

Diet consists of eggs/liver/oysters/grass feed ground beef/carrots/coconout oil/OJ (primary source of carbs).

I think I am going to eliminate liver/oysters temporarily as Brian said he had success with this in the past. Focus on fat solubles, especially A/D and K.

Currently, I have stopped aspirin, I have started using some topical Vitamin A, might switch topical vitamin D (instead of Carlsons, orally 4,000 iu per day which somehow I'm still deficient), and 15mg k2/day thorne which I use orally as well, might switch to topical

I am also starting taurine (purebulk), 4-8G per day. Also glycine, 4-8G/day as well. I had some good results with taurine/glycine in the past.

I am starting Vitamin A topical 10k iu daily and Vitamin D 10kiu daily topically. Since using vitamin A topically (nutrisorb brand), twice, one time 20k iu topically, and one time 10kiu, I have been getting some muscle twitching going on.

Overall, my blood work got worse while on Aspirin, T3, and using great lakes collagen which definitely puzzles me. I guess it might be more attributed to aspirin and T3 for whatever reasons - people have mentioned he had worsening estrogen symptoms on both, and I can say I did the same. Maybe this is attributed to vit A stores being poor, which I thought would be covered by adequate liver consumption, though this might not be the case due to copper levels in liver/oysters that are causing disruption. I am going to re-focus on topical application.

My diet includes a lot of Orange Juice, 2L or more per day as it seems to be the only way to get enough carbs so it seems that I'm definitely metabolizing sugar poorly based on my cholesterol numbers which sky rocketed from 228 last October.

I appreciate all help and input.

 

[haidut]

Labs are attached. @haidut @Brian

Points of note - I am a late 20s male. I was fresh off of coming off of 3 weeks of Aspirin(650mg avg) and using ~2G of Glycine through the use of Great Lakes Collagen. I was also using 1/2-3/4 of a tab of Cynomel daily. Goal was to improve my health, though it looks like it backfired on me.

Diet consists of eggs/liver/oysters/grass feed ground beef/carrots/coconout oil/OJ (primary source of carbs).

I think I am going to eliminate liver/oysters temporarily as Brian said he had success with this in the past. Focus on fat solubles, especially A/D and K.

Currently, I have stopped aspirin, I have started using some topical Vitamin A, might switch topical vitamin D (instead of Carlsons, orally 4,000 iu per day which somehow I'm still deficient), and 15mg k2/day thorne which I use orally as well, might switch to topical

I am also starting taurine (purebulk), 4-8G per day. Also glycine, 4-8G/day as well. I had some good results with taurine/glycine in the past.

I am starting Vitamin A topical 10k iu daily and Vitamin D 10kiu daily topically. Since using vitamin A topically (nutrisorb brand), twice, one time 20k iu topically, and one time 10kiu, I have been getting some muscle twitching going on.

Overall, my blood work got worse while on Aspirin, T3, and using great lakes collagen which definitely puzzles me. I guess it might be more attributed to aspirin and T3 for whatever reasons - people have mentioned he had worsening estrogen symptoms on both, and I can say I did the same. Maybe this is attributed to vit A stores being poor, which I thought would be covered by adequate liver consumption, though this might not be the case due to copper levels in liver/oysters that are causing disruption. I am going to re-focus on topical application.

My diet includes a lot of Orange Juice, 2L or more per day as it seems to be the only way to get enough carbs so it seems that I'm definitely metabolizing sugar poorly based on my cholesterol numbers which sky rocketed from 228 last October.

I appreciate all help and input.

All of the abnormal values point to poor metabolism. I am not sure why you say your labs got worse while on aspirin/T3. There are no past tests in that attachment.

 

[Tide]

All of the abnormal values point to poor metabolism. I am not sure why you say your labs got worse while on aspirin/T3. There are no past tests in that attachment.

I can attach prior labs

I also gained a significant amount of weight, coinciding with the aspirin/t3 use, roughly 20-30lbs while taking both for 3 weeks. I am wondering if it is due to a bottleneck that I am creating, such as poor Vitamin A level perhaps. I thought that I had it covered with liver consumption but seems that is not the case.

I understand that it points to poor metabolism - what are some steps that you would take in my shoes to recover?

I was going to cease oysters/liver, do high dose of taurine/glycine (4-8g daily each, after meals) and move forward with topical application of D/A and perhaps move K2 from oral to topical as well.

I appreciate your input Haidut

 

[Tide]

Here are prior labs, with the cholesterol from Oct 2017 and everything else prior in Aug 2017. At this time, I wasn’t consuming t3, or aspirin, or taurine/glycine.

 

[haidut]

Here are prior labs, with the cholesterol from Oct 2017 and everything else prior. At this time, I wasn’t consuming t3, or aspirin, or taurine/glycine.

The values are pretty close. The only difference is a small change in cholesterol and ALT, and those can vary quite a bit between tests. It is strange that taurine/glycine would raise ALT. Are you drinking alcohol lately or ingesting other gut irritating substances?

 

[Tide]

I apologize if I wasn't clear - ALL of these test, I am NOT consuming glycine and taurine.

I am beginning to now, because I have read your posts that show that taurine helps total cholesterol a lot.

I am saying that my first post, the most recent labs, were fresh off of 3 weeks of t3 (grossman cynomel), aspirin dissolved with baking soda and coffee filter (650mg avg), and great lakes collagen 2 scoops a day (~2g glycine).

I have modified my regimen now to be taking taurine and glycine power, fully dissolved, 4-8g daily, and ceasing oyster/liver consumption. I just purchased the vitamin D and A from idealabs as well - any suggested dosage for my situation?

Regarding alcohol, I drink very rarely, occasionally on a saturday socially. Also, I don't know if it makes a difference but, I have been experimenting with some high dose thiamine, first just regular swanson thiamine HCL and also allithiamine, though that was about 5 days or so and I discontinued since.

I am taking energin daily as well as of recently to help.

I have very high gluten sensitivity/allergy, if that helps to enhance the overall picture. Gut health isn't the best

 

[haidut]

I apologize if I wasn't clear - ALL of these test, I am NOT consuming glycine and taurine.

I am beginning to now, because I have read your posts that show that taurine helps total cholesterol a lot.

I am saying that my first post, the most recent labs, were fresh off of 3 weeks of t3 (grossman cynomel), aspirin dissolved with baking soda and coffee filter (650mg avg), and great lakes collagen 2 scoops a day (~2g glycine).

I have modified my regimen now to be taking taurine and glycine power, fully dissolved, 4-8g daily, and ceasing oyster/liver consumption. I just purchased the vitamin D and A from idealabs as well - any suggested dosage for my situation?

Vitamin D is probably safest in doses of under 10,000 IU daily, and vitamin A in doses of under 25,000 IU daily. Vitamin E protects from vitamin A toxicity so adding 100 IU daily could help control that.

 

[Tide]

Vitamin D is probably safest in doses of under 10,000 IU daily, and vitamin A in doses of under 25,000 IU daily. Vitamin E protects from vitamin A toxicity so adding 100 IU daily could help control that.

Got it. I assume that's what absorbs, so topically I could 10x that dosage. I plan to take those doses you mentioned topically, so really only 1,000 iu D would actually absorb or 2500 iu A. I know you mentioned the acetate has higher absorption topically so maybe I'll adjust. I know you mentioned I think it was 5 to 1 as the ratio ideal of A to D.

I also added a little more information to my prior post. Would you say that aside from taurine/glycine, topical D/A application, that you would add in other steps?

It's pretty frustrating though I'm determined to get it right. I only experimented with t3 and aspirin to improve my situation though it seems my body is too inefficient, whether from lack of vitamin A, or vit D, or a combo or something else, to use them properly.

 

[haidut]

Got it. I assume that's what absorbs, so topically I could 10x that dosage. I plan to take those doses you mentioned topically, so really only 1,000 iu D would actually absorb or 2500 iu A. I know you mentioned the acetate has higher absorption topically so maybe I'll adjust. I know you mentioned I think it was 5 to 1 as the ratio ideal of A to D.

I also added a little more information to my prior post. Would you say that aside from taurine/glycine, topical D/A application, that you would add in other steps?

It's pretty frustrating though I'm determined to get it right. I only experimented with t3 and aspirin to improve my situation though it seems my body is too inefficient, whether from lack of vitamin A, or vit D, or a combo or something else, to use them properly.

I think this is good for now. You don't want to use too many things since you won't know what helps and what doesn't.

 

[Wagner83]

Having most of your carbs source as oj, so liquid (and sucrose) can be an issue for some.

 

[haidut]

Having most of your carbs source as oj, so liquid (and sucrose) can be an issue for some.

I found that if it is OJ there is much less (if any) issue with the carb utilization and insulin response. But I have seen cases where drinking a lot of Coke/Pepsi raised people's trigs. Adding methylene blue, taurine or glycine to the carb source usually resolves that issue. I know a diabetic person who can't handle much sugar on its own, but can freely drink OJ and Coke/Pepsi, provided he puts 0.5mg methylene blue in each bottle of Coke/Pepsi he drinks.

 

[Wagner83]

I found that if it is OJ there is much less (if any) issue with the carb utilization and insulin response. But I have seen cases where drinking a lot of Coke/Pepsi raised people's trigs. Adding methylene blue, taurine or glycine to the carb source usually resolves that issue. I know a diabetic person who can't handle much sugar on its own, but can freely drink OJ and Coke/Pepsi, provided he puts 0.5mg methylene blue in each bottle of Coke/Pepsi he drinks.

Interesting, I still think that having most calories and carbs from liquid sources can be an issue depending on the individual, many members reported this. I experienced it first hand with oj+milk, on the other hand like you suggested over pm fresh oj with a solid meal looks pretty awesome (depending on whether foods are iron-ic or not). Ray (and amazoniac) said potassium spares insulin, then there are all the benefits of oj itself (endotoxin etc...) and the taste!

 

[Tide]

Vitamin D is probably safest in doses of under 10,000 IU daily, and vitamin A in doses of under 25,000 IU daily. Vitamin E protects from vitamin A toxicity so adding 100 IU daily could help control that.

Another question regarding this. What do you typically assume is the topical absorption?

If you want 25,000 IU of Vit A, do you assume 10% of what is applied topically is absorbed? I've seen some variation of this, with Peat saying 10% was absorbed and I think in your retinil thread you mentioned the absorption was "at least 80% topically" judging by your blood tests.

I'm misunderstanding the gulf here. You assume that 80% of what you apply is absorbed? So lets say you apply 10 drops, 24,000 IU of the retinil acetate, you assume that it's a dose of 19,200 of acetate actually absorbed, which by your formula also multiplying it by a factor of 9/5, would be equivalent of 34,560 of palmitate?

Basically I'm misunderstanding two things:

1. How do you calculate what dose goes from topical to absorbed
2. When you say dosages, are you saying the doses you apply topically, or are you saying that dose that should be absorbed, and so we should scale ourselves accordingly?

 

[Luckytype]

Hey @Tide

What were your initial reasons for trying t3?

Did you have the typical poor temp/pulse thing going on?

 

[Tide]

Hey @Tide

What were your initial reasons for trying t3?

Did you have the typical poor temp/pulse thing going on?

Yeah, temp has never really surpassed 97.6, poor/no libido, high prolactin, sub optimal labs, etc.

Felt that with t3/aspirin I would increase liver health and start solving my problems. Really not the case as I exhibited strong estrogenic symptoms, massive bloat with water weight and fat gain, etc. My labs above prove what I was feeling was clearly a systemic issue where I didn’t have enough raw material, whether it’s vitamin A or whatever it is. I was eating 4-8oz if liver weekly, so perhaps it was the copper in liver that was messing me up, or simply my poor gut function not absorbing it.

Definitely a bottleneck, and maybe retinol is the solution. That’s the reason for my previous comment, as I am trying to figure out a good dose for vitamin A moving forward. Haidut mentioned up to 25,000 and I believe that is what’s absorbed. That can vary quite a lot dosage wise, depending if one believes that 10% or up to 25% is absorbed topically.

One post that I found real helpful was by Brian here:

Balancing Zinc And Copper In The Body

I've learned a lot since this post. My views are a lot different now. Basically now I think zinc and copper take care of themselves for the most part if you address more fundamental issues of basic cellular metabolism. Being replete in vitamin A with enough K and D is probably the most fundamental thing. Getting calcium and magnesium in the right places seems to strongly impact the fate of the trace minerals (zinc, copper, iron, selenium, etc), but magnesium itself doesn't seem to be absorbed, retained or utilized well without adequate progesterone.

So, that's why I think being replete in vitamin A with a balance of the other fat solubles is probably the first thing to address when trying to get copper and zinc working properly in the body. As Dr. Garrett Smith puts it, "The fat solubles are the shepherds of minerals." They are also essential for progesterone and DHEA synthesis. Being outdoors all day long is one of the most potent ways I've found to increase progesterone. There's a Peat quote about that somewhere.

"The absence of bright light would create a progesterone deficiency, and would leave estrogen and prolactin unopposed."
Aging Eyes, Infant Eyes, and Excitable Tissues

This has definitely been true for me. It's amazing how something as simple as the absence of bright light can throw the entire organism out of order down to the way it uses minerals. A retinol deficiency is probably an equally important factor if not more important for natural progesterone production.

When there isn't a progesterone or fat soluble deficiency my body seems to use minerals correctly without much micromanaging. Simply eating a serving of beef results in major androgen production during the latter part of my sleeping cycle when enough progesterone and vitamin A is present. No complicated protocols or chelation necessary, but a little supplemental B6 and magnesium along with adequate A, D, and K seem to get the job done on top of any general pro-metabolic diet for me at least.

I did a lot of red light and sun bathing this summer and probably depleted a bit too much of my Vitamin A stores, so I'm in the process of replenishing again. Also setting up my winter red light rig with some 500W halogen worklights.

I don't believe in pyroluria anymore. In summary

Main point being, be sufficient in fat soluble vitamins A, D, K, and it helps sort everything else out down stream.

I don't feel I've sufficiently focused on that, assuming blindly that liver for example was satisfying my retinol needs, and not using D and K topically, and obviously being deficient in D based on labs. Part of this is I'm sure due to liver function and part of this is simply due to my focus not being on this particular issue.

 

[Luckytype]

Thanks man. My situation, though probably some different lead up to it/causes is similar to yours.

Ive been probably a solid year on good fat sols/liver/calories etc wtc

What was the very first thing you noticed when trying the t3?

Do you have any other labs you could post to maybe show changes?

 

[Tide]

Thanks man. My situation, though probably some different lead up to it/causes is similar to yours.

Ive been probably a solid year on good fat sols/liver/calories etc wtc

What was the very first thing you noticed when trying the t3?

Do you have any other labs you could post to maybe show changes?

All the labs I have are here.

I didn't really experience any positive changes from the t3. In fact, and it almost seems unbelievable, I gained weight, around 20-30lbs of water/fat, while on aspirin/t3 for 3 weeks. I was taking great lakes collagen at the time as well. Seems in hindsight to be a result of a bottleneck, which really seems to be retinol though I could be wrong again. If I am this time however, it's tough for me to see the way forward.

I am going to focus on doing topical application of fat solubles.

 

[Luckytype]

The weight gain you mentioned is very very surprising.

Thanks for your explanations. Hopefully someone can reason as to why even that one particular thing happened

 

[Tide]

Just a little update on my situation - I've decided to experiment with antibiotics again and will try penicillin vk + erythromycin for 10-14 days. Need to wait for erythromycin to get delivered.

I haven't had truly great success of lowering my weight - I do seem a tad bit less bloated now however. I started out using taurine (8g/day) and glycine (4g/day), though I've lowered it to 2g/day of taurine and 1-2g/day of glycine.

The reason for my reintroduction of antibiotics was due to more reading and the fact that I have had a fairly "swollen" belly. I'm normally a fairly lean guy, so I'm guessing aside from the fat that has developed on my stomach (I typically mostly gained fat on my legs/hips, which is more estrogenic for a male), the swollen/heavily bloated stomach at time is a sign of some bacteria/inflammation and perhaps the combo of antiobiotics can help to kill whatever is there.

My current diet is roughly 2500 calories, at 6'2 and 225lbs:
4 eggs
coconut oil
0.5z beef liver daily
1/2lb grass feed ground beef
icelandic skyr 2% yogurt
carrot salad
2+ liters organic OJ
-Venti dark roast + 2 shots of espresso (sometimes I'll get a 2nd coffee/always generous sugar)

Current supplements are:
-Topical use of fat solubles
-retinil ~2drops
-calcitrol 2-5 drops
-kuinone 15 drops
-magnoil 5 drops most days after dinner/before bed
-energin, 2 servings (80 drops, morning/afternoon)
-Taurine (2g/day)
-Glycine (1-2g/day)
-Occasional use of Tocovit

Any sort of cheese or other types of greek yogurt seem to give me some crazy constipation. I've tried to play around with feta cheese as well and it hasn't been that great.

This is the best I can do without getting crazy constipation. I also use the lifegivingstore's cascara sagrada, 2 scoops (1/32nd tspn each) daily to try and keep bowel movements regular.

I am reintroducing some calisthenics/lifting, and trying to get as much sunlight as possible, though it's tough with a corporate job.


Any potential advice @haidut ? Others input welcome as well

I have read your thread recently on autoimmune conditions being caused by bacteria, and the use of ampicillin. Should I try to incorporate this instead of penicillin vk? I know Ray has recommended penicililn vk + erythromycin in the past to people with gut issues. I've been trying to create the most consistent form of diet so that when I do switch things it's apparent if they are working or not. Been at this in a more serious way since roughly 2016 and to be honest it's tough to see what I should switch up moving forward.

 

[Tide]

To keep it short, I'm going to first do a cycle of Methylene Blue (1.2 mg) + Niacinimide (1.5g) + Aspirin (3g) and then when I get my antibiotics, I'm going to do a cycle of penicillin vk + erythromycin.

I know that dosages for MB have varied up to 5mg and Niaciimide upwards of 3g though I haven't really experimented with either that high.

Any input or experiences are welcome.