Liver Craving/Vitamin A Observation

[Westside PUFAs]

Danny Roddy sent me a few studies indicating that 33,000IU per day of pre-formed vitamin A may be ideal.

Post them if you still have them.

 

[stargazer1111]

The "ideal" daily vitamin A intake. - PubMed - NCBI

Normally, I have access to the full paper using my credentials at my university. But, for some reason there is no access to this one. I can only get the abstract.

 

[stargazer1111]

I have suffered from severe gastric ulcer-like pain, constant acid reflux, constant burping and constant noise going on in my stomach for about 10 years. It wasn't until I brought the pre-formed vitamin A up above 15,000 IU per day that this finally went away.

Mechanisms of action of retinoids in gastrointestinal mucosal protection in animals, human healthy subjects and patients. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[EIRE24]

I have suffered from severe gastric ulcer-like pain, constant acid reflux, constant burping and constant noise going on in my stomach for about 10 years. It wasn't until I brought the pre-formed vitamin A up above 15,000 IU per day that this finally went away.

Mechanisms of action of retinoids in gastrointestinal mucosal protection in animals, human healthy subjects and patients. - PubMed - NCBI

Through liver or supplementation?

 

[Mary Pruter]

Of all the countries in all the world, who is the healthiest and longest living.... what do they eat?

 

[stargazer1111]

Through liver or supplementation?

Partially. But, I only eat a little bit of liver because of the copper content. I get the rest of my vitamin A as vitamin A palmitate powder. I use a milligram digital scale to weigh it.

 

[EIRE24]

Partially. But, I only eat a little bit of liver because of the copper content. I get the rest of my vitamin A as vitamin A palmitate powder. I use a milligram digital scale to weigh it.

Have you found that this has improved skin health?

 

[stargazer1111]

Overall skin health seems to be unchanged. However, I was getting pimples all over my body. After increasing the vitamin A, the pimples went away relatively quickly and have not returned.

 

[stargazer1111]

One thing that has changed is my ability to stand for long periods. Before, I would get severe upper back muscle pain if I stood for more than a few minutes. After increasing the vitamin A along with the vitamin D, I seem to be able to stand for hours. Back pain isn't totally gone, but it's about 10-20 percent of what it was before.

 

[Dante]

One thing that has changed is my ability to stand for long periods. Before, I would get severe upper back muscle pain if I stood for more than a few minutes. After increasing the vitamin A along with the vitamin D, I seem to be able to stand for hours. Back pain isn't totally gone, but it's about 10-20 percent of what it was before.

all these signs were indicative that your D/A ratio was pretty high before :). Btw did adding MK-4 help with your autism or any other cognitive benefits for that matter?

 

[stargazer1111]

Mk-4 has produced no noticeable changes except that, if I get too much of it, I get really bad back pain and I feel dizzy and weird. I don't take more than 3mg per day and I only take it because of its importance in functioning with A and D.

The D/A ratio was high before because of a couple of reasons. 1. High levels of vitamin D allow me to function relatively normally in social situations. If I don't get enough D, I stop speaking to people, start staring at walls and look down all the time. The difference is pretty amazing. 2. I was scared off of taking any vitamin A by John Cannell of the Vitamin D council.

I now believe Cannell to be incorrect after discussing this with Danny Roddy and reading some of what Paul Jaminet has to say about it.

The one issue that comes up with vitamin A for me is that my autistic symptoms can return if I get it too high. I found a dissertation by a PhD candidate discussing the idea that vitamin A interferes with the MTHFR gene and reduces the capacity for methylation. Autistic people seem to have a fair degree of hypomethylation. I had been taking trimethylglycine as a methyl donor but stopped when I didn't notice much before I started getting all the vitamin A. I discovered that I can negate the harmful effects of vitamin A on my autistic symptoms simply by taking several grams of trimethylglycine during the day. I suspect it is offsetting vitamin A's downregulation of the methylation cycle. But, this is all theory and I can't prove it.

 

[Dante]

Mk-4 has produced no noticeable changes except that, if I get too much of it, I get really bad back pain and I feel dizzy and weird. I don't take more than 3mg per day and I only take it because of its importance in functioning with A and D.

The D/A ratio was high before because of a couple of reasons. 1. High levels of vitamin D allow me to function relatively normally in social situations. If I don't get enough D, I stop speaking to people, start staring at walls and look down all the time. The difference is pretty amazing. 2. I was scared off of taking any vitamin A by John Cannell of the Vitamin D council.

I now believe Cannell to be incorrect after discussing this with Danny Roddy and reading some of what Paul Jaminet has to say about it.

The one issue that comes up with vitamin A for me is that my autistic symptoms can return if I get it too high. I found a dissertation by a PhD candidate discussing the idea that vitamin A interferes with the MTHFR gene and reduces the capacity for methylation. Autistic people seem to have a fair degree of hypomethylation. I had been taking trimethylglycine as a methyl donor but stopped when I didn't notice much before I started getting all the vitamin A. I discovered that I can negate the harmful effects of vitamin A on my autistic symptoms simply by taking several grams of trimethylglycine during the day. I suspect it is offsetting vitamin A's downregulation of the methylation cycle. But, this is all theory and I can't prove it.

Awesome, it's pretty amazing that high dose vitamin D can functionally cure your autism.

 

[stargazer1111]

Well. I wouldn't go THAT far lol. I still have some need for routine and don't like surprises at all. But, I actually enjoy other people now which is really nice!

 

[EIRE24]

Overall skin health seems to be unchanged. However, I was getting pimples all over my body. After increasing the vitamin A, the pimples went away relatively quickly and have not returned.

I'm currently on holiday in the US I've noticed the food quality is really poor and I seem to be getting pimples a lot. I'm wondering if vitamin stores or some place would carry a decent vitamin A supplement?

 

[stargazer1111]

Not in my experience. I order Vitamin A Palmitate powder from BulkSupplements off of Amazon. It has a little bit of filler unfortunately, but I don't seem to react to it.

You could try VitaminShoppe or something to see. Usually, the supplements I see there are full of PUFA oils or some other garbage.

 

[stargazer1111]

Early effects of excessive retinol intake on hepatic glycogen metabolism - ScienceDirect

This study suggests that "excessive" amounts of vitamin A lead to increased glycogen storage in rats. I used to suffer from terrible hypoglycemia between meals that was only partially corrected by upping my protein intake. After I started taking "excessive" amounts of vitamin A, I noticed that I no longer needed so much protein and could go for a while without food even after drinking a sugary drink on an empty stomach.

This suggests to me that vitamin A deficiency leads to a lowered ability to store glycogen in the liver. I know that my hypoglycemia started when I was in the middle of my alcoholism and I have seen that alcohol can lead to a vitamin A deficiency, even with sufficient intake.

 

[Elize]

Stargzer1111
Hi from Elize. I notice after taking Vitamin D that I develop bad body aches, I also feel jittery and often have muscle twitches in my left arm, when training in the gym my knees make a creaking sound. I also feel stiff and painful in the mornings. Would it be OK for me to stop taking Vitamin D for a while and take some Vitamin A. I also using thyroid medication and would the A impact on that. Once I get over this bout will order Haiduts Eban as that forms a balance between D and the other vitamins.

Thanks

 

[stargazer1111]

Well. I'm certainly not a doctor so I can't say for sure what will happen. We are all different as evidenced by the fact that different people need vastly different amounts of vitamin D to maintain normal levels (and even the normal levels are debated among doctors and scientists).

I would suggest keeping the vitamin D and adding the vitamin A along with it. I don't feel quite right if I get either vitamin in large amounts by itself. Do you take any K2 as MK-4? I would suggest a mg or two of that as well. Vitamin E protects vitamin A from being oxidized so that can be beneficial as well.

Vitamin A has been shown to lower TSH which indicates that it may have beneficial effects on the thyroid by itself. I would say that it might lower the amount of thyroid medication you need. However, you need to keep a close eye on your numbers and adjust accordingly.

What I have learned since discovering Peat is that you have listen to your own body and come to your own conclusions rather than relying on other people or even scientific studies to advise you. I think what works will be different for everybody.

 

[stargazer1111]

https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/22/importance-real-vitamin-retinol/#Vitamin_A_and_Adrenal_Fatigue

This is not an official scientific publication. However, it gives a pretty good explanation of vitamin A's interaction with vitamin D and the thyroid. Lots of other good information about it as well.

Although, I disagree with the 10,000 IU upper limit. I seem to need about 40,000 to 50,000 IU along with about 15,000 IU to 20,000 IU of vitamin D to feel good.

 

[Elize]

Stargazer Thanks sooooo much. I am going to read the info again to take it all in. Since I live my life with Hashimoto and low levels of cortisol would the A, D, E and K2 lower or increase my cortisol levels. I do not have a weight issue at all but for sure have issues with my gut and energy levels and constantly feeling cold. T3 in any format makes me worse, my labs look great when using T3 but am become very shaky. Now am trying Bullet proof coffee, grass fed ghee and coconut oil to see if the fats and coffee combination will stabilize my hypoglycemia issues. I tried having a lot of sugar but it just made me worse. Find that I am not ok with gluten, dairy or sugar. Butter and ghee I am OK with. I do have Vitamin D and Ae in separate emulsified drops of 2000IU each K2 in gel caps. I take my Thyroid medication, enzymes and probiotics and no other supplements or medications at all.