Liver Craving/Vitamin A Observation

[stargazer1111]

After reading the information from the Weston A. Price foundation regarding vitamin A, I decided to experiment with taking 30,000IU per day. Based on their interpretation of Dr. Price's work, primitive cultures got around 50,000IU per day from organs and dairy. I had been afraid of this because I am autistic and require much greater amounts of vitamin D to maintain normal levels (I have to take about 15,000 IU per day). I did not want to antagonize the D.

I have had severe stomach pain that mimics gastric ulcer disease for years. It started before I went on the ketogenic diet, but got markedly worse while on that diet to the point of blood in the stools and uncontrollable hiccups and burping.

Anyway. I started experimenting with liver at first. What's strange about me is that I have had insatiable steak cravings for years and if I didn't eat enough flesh meat, I would feel like I was going to pass out. When I first tried liver a few days ago, I noticed how similar the taste was to just a regular steak except slightly sweeter. I noticed that I could only stomach a few bites and my body told me to stop eating it.

I have decided to go with a vitamin A supplement to increase the number to 30,000 IU per day just because I don't want to eat too much of the liver because of the metal content.

The strangest thing has happened since doing this. I no longer crave "steak" at all and can go much longer periods of time without protein if needed. My appetite has actually gone down and I feel warmer and more well.

Additionally, the stomach pain got insanely worse at first and has since dissipated. I have found studies indicating that a lack of vitamin A produces pathogenic changes to the epithelial cells of the gastric mucosa. I wonder if this was a type of herxheimer reaction as the body sort of picked off the "scab" in that area of the stomach and began regenerating healthy epithelial cells.

My thought is that I was actually craving liver this whole time because I was vitamin A deficient. Historically, I have only gotten maybe 4 or 5 thousand units in a day.

 

[EIRE24]

I get this liver craving at times too. My body tells me to keep eating it which is the opposite to ou. I do find though that the more I eat the more dry my skin gets and this causes acne which I always thought vitamin A makes acne better. It definitely makes me warmer with more energy which is a good sign.

 

[paymanz]

Historically, I have only gotten maybe 4 or 5 thousand units in a day.

From what sources?

 

[stargazer1111]

I get this liver craving at times too. My body tells me to keep eating it which is the opposite to ou. I do find though that the more I eat the more dry my skin gets and this causes acne which I always thought vitamin A makes acne better. It definitely makes me warmer with more energy which is a good sign.

I would say to keep listening to your cravings. Do you get enough vitamin D? They have to be together in the proper ratio for both to function correctly.

 

[stargazer1111]

From what sources?

All from dairy. Milk, cheese and back when I was on the ketogenic diet it was all from butter/ghee.

 

[EIRE24]

I would say to keep listening to your cravings. Do you get enough vitamin D? They have to be together in the proper ratio for both to function correctly.

I live in Ireland so no not much vitamin D. I don't want to supplement it so maybe red light or tanning bed is my best option

 

[stargazer1111]

You can buy UV-B lights. I take 15,000 IU as D3 because of my autism. Without it, I can't socialize or make eye contact with people very well.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Just put D on your skin

 

[Dante]

You can buy UV-B lights. I take 15,000 IU as D3 because of my autism. Without it, I can't socialize or make eye contact with people very well.

haidut's product estroban contains A : D in 2.5 :1 ratio so, that high dosage of vitamin
D might have created a functional deficiency of Vitamin A which you corrected. Ever Tried/used MK-4 form vitamin K2 ?( it serves as an additional electron electron carrier even in Parkinson's genetic deficiency in drosophila and caused efficient energy production.
Vitamin K2 Is A Mitochondrial Electron Carrier That Rescues Pink1 Deficiency )

 

[stargazer1111]

I think you're right about the deficiency. That 2.5:1 ratio corroborates with Paul Jaminet's recommendation and I believe it is probably correct.

I actually do take MK-4. Between 1-3 mg per day depending on if I remember to get it at each meal.

 

[Mary Pruter]

I

After reading the information from the Weston A. Price foundation regarding vitamin A, I decided to experiment with taking 30,000IU per day. Based on their interpretation of Dr. Price's work, primitive cultures got around 50,000IU per day from organs and dairy. I had been afraid of this because I am autistic and require much greater amounts of vitamin D to maintain normal levels (I have to take about 15,000 IU per day). I did not want to antagonize the D.

I have had severe stomach pain that mimics gastric ulcer disease for years. It started before I went on the ketogenic diet, but got markedly worse while on that diet to the point of blood in the stools and uncontrollable hiccups and burping.

Anyway. I started experimenting with liver at first. What's strange about me is that I have had insatiable steak cravings for years and if I didn't eat enough flesh meat, I would feel like I was going to pass out. When I first tried liver a few days ago, I noticed how similar the taste was to just a regular steak except slightly sweeter. I noticed that I could only stomach a few bites and my body told me to stop eating it.

I have decided to go with a vitamin A supplement to increase the number to 30,000 IU per day just because I don't want to eat too much of the liver because of the metal content.

The strangest thing has happened since doing this. I no longer crave "steak" at all and can go much longer periods of time without protein if needed. My appetite has actually gone down and I feel warmer and more well.

Additionally, the stomach pain got insanely worse at first and has since dissipated. I have found studies indicating that a lack of vitamin A produces pathogenic changes to the epithelial cells of the gastric mucosa. I wonder if this was a type of herxheimer reaction as the body sort of picked off the "scab" in that area of the stomach and began regenerating healthy epithelial cells.

My thought is that I was actually craving liver this whole time because I was vitamin A deficient. Historically, I have only gotten maybe 4 or 5 thousand units in a day.

Worry about the Vitamin A as it can cause confusion and has proven so in both myself and my mother. I had us both in 15,000 IU a day and cut it back to 5000 a day. My mother has dementia and I have early onset as well. I can't find anyone here that will help me with dosage on it and I am at a loss. I've just about given up on the board. They will tell you what to take and some on how much but if you have a problem with something, you're out of luck. I've also read that you can't do Vitamin D for long periods of time. My mother has explosion diarrhea almost around the clock for years and years, even had a large part of her intestines removed. I don't know what to do for her there. Seems the smallest amount of veggies brings it all on her horribly!

 

[stargazer1111]

I

Worry about the Vitamin A as it can cause confusion and has proven so in both myself and my mother. I had us both in 15,000 IU a day and cut it back to 5000 a day. My mother has dementia and I have early onset as well. I can't find anyone here that will help me with dosage on it and I am at a loss. I've just about given up on the board. They will tell you what to take and some on how much but if you have a problem with something, you're out of luck. I've also read that you can't do Vitamin D for long periods of time. My mother has explosion diarrhea almost around the clock for years and years, even had a large part of her intestines removed. I don't know what to do for her there. Seems the smallest amount of veggies brings it all on her horribly!

I have been taking 15,000 IU of vitamin D for a long time and have seen no issues with it. I require much more than most people because I am autistic.

You need to get a substantial amount of vitamin D along with the vitamin A because they require each other to work properly.

According to Weston Price's work, the healthiest primitive cultures got somewhere along the lines of 50,000 IU of vitamin A from a combo of liver and animal fat daily. I have noticed that I get memory issues if I starve the gut bacteria. When I try to go dairy-free and starch/fiber free for extended periods, I get early symptoms of what you might call dementia. The funny thing is, I absolutely crave starch/fiber when I cut out the milk. This is likely because the lactose feeds the good bacteria (I know Ray has mentioned this a few times). As long as I get milk in my diet, I can stay starch/fiber free with no issues.

Have you tried pairing both D and A in substantial amounts to see what effect you get? I have also heard anectodally that both vitamin A and D can increase the requirements for vitamin K2. Do you take any K2? I get about 1-3mg daily.

Another thing to look at is calcium intake. When I took these vitamins and was getting low amounts of calcium, I noticed some weird issues like severe back pain and low blood pressure.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

primitive cultures got around 50,000IU per day from organs and dairy.

Dairy was never and is still not a good source of vitamin A. Synthetic A is added to dairy now but without it added it barely has any A. Even if grass fed. More WAP misinformation.

.

 

[stargazer1111]

That's not true for whole milk. I drink whole milk. It has vitamin D3 added, but not vitamin A. Also, I take synthetic vitamin A palmitate powder and see no issues with it. Retinyl palmitate and retinyl acetate are the primary storage forms of vitamin A in animals. Vitamin A palmitate is structurally identical.

 

[stargazer1111]

Also, just because dairy has lower amounts of A doesn't mean it's bad to get A from dairy. Those cultures also ate a fair amount of organs from what I have read.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

That's not true for whole milk.

It doesn't matter what fat % the milk is. The fat in milk barely has any vitamins on its own. It has tiny amounts. It's not a practical source of those vitamins. It's not the fat in milk that is valuable. It's the lactose, calcium, and casein that are valuable and those aren't in the fat. If one were to attempt to get enough amounts of the FSV by drinking whole milk daily without supplementing anything, first they would develop an A deficiency and night blindness, and a D deficiency and second they would gain fat tissue.

Ray Peat Agreeing About The Fattening Effect Of Whole Milk And Certain Cheeses

"You Can Get Fat On Butter" - Ray Peat

Ray Peat On Butter And Cream Vs. Coconut Oil

.

 

[stargazer1111]

I never said you should try to get all of the fat-soluble vitamins from dairy and neither does the WAP foundation. They specifically mention liver and cod liver oil (of course I am against the oil because of the PUFA). I just simply pointed out that it is a part of the diet in those cultures that Price studied and can be a partial source of them. Dairy in conjunction with liver a few times per week gives you a ton of vitamin A. Most of it comes from the liver, sure. But, I see nothing wrong with including the dairy in addition to the liver.

 

[Mary Pruter]

I have been taking 15,000 IU of vitamin D for a long time and have seen no issues with it. I require much more than most people because I am autistic.

You need to get a substantial amount of vitamin D along with the vitamin A because they require each other to work properly.

According to Weston Price's work, the healthiest primitive cultures got somewhere along the lines of 50,000 IU of vitamin A from a combo of liver and animal fat daily. I have noticed that I get memory issues if I starve the gut bacteria. When I try to go dairy-free and starch/fiber free for extended periods, I get early symptoms of what you might call dementia. The funny thing is, I absolutely crave starch/fiber when I cut out the milk. This is likely because the lactose feeds the good bacteria (I know Ray has mentioned this a few times). As long as I get milk in my diet, I can stay starch/fiber free with no issues.

Have you tried pairing both D and A in substantial amounts to see what effect you get? I have also heard anectodally that both vitamin A and D can increase the requirements for vitamin K2. Do you take any K2? I get about 1-3mg daily.

Another thing to look at is calcium intake. When I took these vitamins and was getting low amounts of calcium, I noticed some weird issues like severe back pain and low blood pressure.

Thank you.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

 

[stargazer1111]

Wow. Looks like I have some more digging to do into this organization. I had no idea about this. Thanks for pointing it out!

Do you think that their vitamin A recommendations are too high? Danny Roddy sent me a few studies indicating that 33,000IU per day of pre-formed vitamin A may be ideal.