Supplementing More Than 10,000 IU Of Vitamin D A Day Based On The Work Of Jeff Bowles

[tankasnowgod]

But they took the preventive measures to minimize risks of adverse effects that can happen below frank toxicity.

I didn't consider bone density a bad thing, have you read the last comment? Not a rhetorical question, you might have missed.
On the exceptional group it's probable that the needs for everything keep increasing as well, it's unlikely that magnesium and K2 are enough to confer full protection or cover the extra requirement for putting things in order.

Well, it could have been the preventative measures..... or it could be, as they stated, that blood levels below 300 ng/ml are unlikely to cause toxicity. As far as reading the "last comment," I do not know what you are referring too.

Also, this is the wrong thread for this discussion. I created a thread specifically about this, you should be posting these concerns there
- Supplementing More Than 10,000 IU Of Vitamin D A Day Based On The Work Of Jeff Bowles

I'd appreciate you bringing up new info and concerns there, but please stop re-hashing the same evidence you posted a couple times already.

 

[Amazoniac]

Well, it could have been the preventative measures..... or it could be, as they stated, that blood levels below 300 ng/ml are unlikely to cause toxicity. As far as reading the "last comment," I do not know what you are referring too.

Also, this is the wrong thread for this discussion. I created a thread specifically about this, you should be posting these concerns there
- Supplementing More Than 10,000 IU Of Vitamin D A Day Based On The Work Of Jeff Bowles

I'd appreciate you bringing up new info and concerns there, but please stop re-hashing the same evidence you posted a couple times already.

I don't want to be unfair here but is it possible that you're actually getting paid by the vitamin D industry to say that? Of course you won't give me a solid answer, but depending on your reaction I might be able to tell what's up.

According to you, these are your precautions:
- Keep vit D levels below 150 ng/ml
- Plenty of magnesium
- Plenty of K2

And that's it. Guarded.

Within those alone, you can notice something fishy because patients under Coimbra's protocol get constipation, and it shows you that the dose is incompatible to how much the person can process adequately. People supplement 1200 mg of magnesium + what diet provides and yet can't meet the demand. Constipation by itself is a concerning effect over time.

You might argue that correcting vit D helps in using magnesium, but this is not a reason to go beyond what's achievable with sun exposure because it clearly depletes you. Normal calcium absorption is much greater than magnesium, and people tend towards calcification and poor magnesium retention when weak, and vit D will only favor this tendency. Using pharmacological doses of vit D without calcium restriction can be dangerous.

Then you have vit K, and its utility in such doses has been questioned before, however I'm not allowed to rehash. It can be recycled but what happens when someone doesn't produce enough carbon dioxide and keeps shoving down vit D and K2? How carboxylation works in such state?

Regarding your safe vit D levels, if the detrimental effects appear only when you cross the toxicity mark as you say, why does the body puts vit D in storage and (more importantly) also turns on the degrading enzyme much earlier than when it reaches the calcification range? Is it working against you along with most of the credible vit D researchers that agree that levels should be around 45 ng/ml?

Leaving the protocol, people often lack a variety of nutrients that will get in the way of vit D working right.

How do you expect order in increasing bone mass when glycine insufficiency is common?
What about vit C? It's needed in vit D metabolism and bone formation.
B-vitamins have been discussed as well. It's silly to think that your need for them won't be increased a lot.

And yet we find people on the forum that can barely remain sufficient already without such stimulation.

I would also suggest you to seek things outside of the 'nothing can happen as long as my level stays at 149 ng/ml or lower' mindset. It isn't much different than an acidic diet not being an issue because the blood appears fine, but how many people deteriorate with normal blood?

- Possible Injury to the Cardiovascular System from Vitamin D

"During the next few years an increasing number of infants were recognized as suffering from [idiopathic hypercalcemia]. Indeed, England suffered from a veritable epidemic of this disease. The epidemic occurred at a time when 1,000 units of vitamin D were being added to each quart of milk and vitamin D supplement was being added to many foodstuffs, such as cereals, bread, and flour. It was calculated that the majority of infants in Great Britain at that time received between 2,000 and 3,000 units of vitamin D/day. As soon as the vitamin D was taken out of the foodstuffs and the vitamin D content of milk was reduced to 400 units/qt, the outbreak of severe idiopathic hypercalcemia came to an abrupt end. Indeed, the decrease in the prevalence of idiopathic hypercalcemia was nearly as striking as the elimination of phocomelia in Germany after thalidomide was withdrawn from the market. The decrease in the severe form of idiopathic hypercalcemia that occurred with the reduction of the amount of vitamin D given to these infants is an incontrovertible fact, and it is a strong argument for the existence of some relation between the two conditions."

"The important consideration in the present discussion is that some infants are born with an ability to metabolize vitamin D of such a nature that they can be seriously and severely injured by a dose of vitamin D that is apparently not injurious to other children. Moreover, this dose is approximately only eight times the usual amount required for normal growth and development. The figure eight times the usual amount is derived because a decrease from approximately 3,000 units/day to 400 units/day virtually eliminated the severe form of idiopathic hypercalcemia."

"To return to the problem of supravalvular aortic stenosis—in the spring of 1964, Garcia, Friedman, Kaback, and Rowe (11) reported an infant who was referred to the Cardiac Clinic of the Children's Medical and Surgical Center because of a cardiac murmur. On careful study this child was found to have a high blood calcium level, a high blood level of vitamin D, and supravalvular aortic stenosis. This, we believe, is the first reported case in which both hypercalcemia and supravalvular aortic stenosis have been reported."

"The phenomenon of calciphylaxis that Selye (17) has studied may be of great significance. He has shown that animals may be given a dose of vitamin D, and subsequently at a critical time the animal is given another substance that acts as a challenger and produces calcification in various places. By varying the amount of vitamin D and the challenger Selye has produced calcification almost at will."

"These observations open up many problems—I shall not speculate. Neverthless, I do seriously wonder how great may be the variation in metabolism of calcium and of vitamin D and whether harm is being done by the widespread use of vitamin D in relatively high doses. Certainly we have virtually eliminated rickets, but some infants tolerate less than others and some infants need more than others; and perhaps some adults with a special genetic background may be injured."

"My plea to you all is that, if large doses of vitamin D are not necessary and there is any possibility that they may do harm, do follow the old adage, 'If you cannot do good, be sure not to do harm.'"​

- Vitamin D—risk vs benefit
- Hyper-reactivity to vitamin D

 

[Amazoniac]

- Efficacy of High-Dose Vitamin D Supplements for Elite Athletes

With the equivalent of 5000 or 10000 IU a day for 12 months, their vit D levels ended up at about 150 and the others something close to 200 nmol/L.

But the interesting part..

"[Our] data imply that high doses of supplemental vitamin D3 are sufficient to markedly induce the expression of 24-hydroxylase, leading to the negative control of 1,25[OH]2D activity."

Spoiler: Figure 2

"Serum responses of the major vitamin D metabolites with treatment of either 35,000 or 70,000 IU/wk vitamin D3 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25[OH]D) (A), 1>,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 (1>,25[OH]2D3) (B), 24,25-hydroxyvitamin D (C), and intact PTH (D). Samples were collected before supplementation (basal) and then at weeks 6, 12, and 18 of supplementation. At week 12, supplementation was stopped in both groups. *Significance for both groups compared with basal. #Significance for the 70,000 IU/wk compared with basal."

"The fact that the concentration of serum 24,25[OH]2D3 did not show a decline along with 1,25[OH]2D after the withdrawal of supplementation has practical implications. The finding suggests that the activity of 24-hydroxylase is sustained after large increases in 1,25[OH]2D and may persist and decrease both the concentration and the subsequent biological activity of 1,25[OH]2D."

"Evidence is now emerging that the 24,25[OH]2D metabolite may act at the VDR as a ‘‘blocking molecule’’ binding to the VDR decreasing 1,25 [OH]2D activity (5). Because 24,25[OH]2D is present in the circulation in nanomole per liter concentration compared with picomole per liter for 1,25[OH]2D, the significantly higher prevailing 24,25[OH]2D concentrations are liable to contribute to a significant decrease in the activity of the biologically active 1,25[OH]2D. Thus, a dual regulation would appear to be present in subjects receiving high-dose vitamin D supplementation preventing possible toxic effects, namely, 1) the positive stimulation of 24-hydroxylase and 2) the negative control of the VDR activity."

"These findings may explain reported observations of deterioration in skeletal muscle function, increased risk of falls, and increased fracture risk in individuals supplemented with extreme dose vitamin D3 to correct for severe vitamin D deficiency."

"Furthermore, in a retrospective observational cohort study, very low (<10 nmol/L) and high (>140 nmol/L) concentrations of 25[OH]D showed an increased risk of all-cause mortality, indicating not only a lower limit but also an upper limit for serum 25[OH]D (7). This hypothesis also lends an explanation for the inconsistency in positive outcomes related to supplemental vitamin D reported by large-scale meta-analyses (4). It is reasonable to suggest that mega dose vitamin D supplements are detrimental to vitamin D target tissues by increasing the production of 24,25[OH]2D, which may act to block the activity of the VDR."​

- Vitamin D and mortality: Individual participant data meta-analysis of standardized 25-hydroxyvitamin D in 26916 individuals from a European consortium

Spoiler: Fig 1. Dose-response trend of hazard ratios of death from all causes by standardized 25-hydroxyvitamin D

"Dose-response trend of hazard ratios of all-cause mortality by standardized 25-hydroxyvitamin D were adjusted for age, sex, body mass index and season of blood drawing concentrations. Hazard ratios [blue line with 95% confidence interval as the dotted blue lines] are referring to the 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentration of 83.4 nmol/L (i.e. the median 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentration for the group with 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations from 75 to 99.99 nmol/L)."

The most important part is correcting a deficiency and then not going over the boards if there are risks in going too high.

- Vitamin D supplementation , 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations, and safety

"Hypercalcemia due to vitamin D intoxication per se is always accompanied by serum 25(OH)D concentrations > 220 nmol/L (70, 75, 77)."

"There is one case of an individual with vitamin D toxicity for which the intake was 250 mcg (10 000 IU)/d."

Check out Table 4 in the document: various studies used lower doses, were short and still made a difference. If you take 10,000 IU but especially some more for long enough, it can eventually build up to those 220 nmol/L. There was a group of people in table 4 receiving 40,000 IU/d, and in one month their levels went up to 307.5 nmol/L.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I've been testing this for a month of so. took probably 50k IU average, had taken 10k a day before.

I tested 256.0 (nmol/l). Above 250 is supposed to be toxic, so I think I will stop taking D for a few months now.

Also:

Vitamin D Is As Bad In Excess As It Is In Deficiency

 

[methylenewhite]

I took 3 boxes of Arachitol orally in 2 months in India a couple of years ago. It was 18 x 600000iu of vitamin D. All together it is 10800000 units of vit D and I was sunbathing as well. Believe or not. I was so reckless to solve my extremely rare autoimmune problem. It was a decision inspired by Coimbra's works on MS. I dont have MS, I have another really rare autoimmune condition. I got no results whatsoever, no noticeable side effects, no changes in my condition, nothing. I didnt follow low calcium diet, only took Live Extension Super K.

https://www.1mg.com/drugs/arachitol-6l-injection-323178

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

great work @Amazoniac

I think the person you're talking to has a weird way of thinking: cholesterol is a myth, DHT is good for hair / alopecia isn't related to androgens because huh teenagers, sky high vitamin D is good... the hell?

 

[tankasnowgod]

great work @Amazoniac

I think the person you're talking to has a weird way of thinking: cholesterol is a myth, DHT is good for hair / alopecia isn't related to androgens because huh teenagers, sky high vitamin D is good... the hell?

I never once said Cholesterol is a myth. What are you talking about? Cholesterol obviously exists and it has crucial to body functions.

You are correct with your second assertion, I don't think alopecia is caused by androgens. I think it's due to stress hormones. I think Danny Roddy laid out an excellent case here- The Male Pattern Baldness Myth (Organizing The Panic)

And again, if DHT is responsible for hair loss, why doesn't it affect teenage men (whose DHT levels tend to be high) disproportionately as compared to older men, whose DHT levels tend to be low?

If you read the first post of this thread, I clearly state this is an experiment, and laid out my reasoning and supporting study. I never flat out said "Sky high vitamin D is good." Not only that, but I didn't suggest that anyone follow my experiment.

 

[Tarmander]

I took 3 boxes of Arachitol orally in 2 months in India a couple of years ago. It was 18 x 600000iu of vitamin D. All together it is 10800000 units of vit D and I was sunbathing as well. Believe or not. I was so reckless to solve my extremely rare autoimmune problem. It was a decision inspired by Coimbra's works on MS. I dont have MS, I have another really rare autoimmune condition. I got no results whatsoever, no noticeable side effects, no changes in my condition, nothing. I didnt follow low calcium diet, only took Live Extension Super K.

https://www.1mg.com/drugs/arachitol-6l-injection-323178

Reading a lot of people on the Coimbra prot, it seems to take years of higher levels of vitamin D to roll back a lot of the damage. Perhaps a lower dose for longer period would have been prudent.

 

[Tarmander]

Results are in for my higher dose vitamin D test: Tarmander's Long Log

 

[tankasnowgod]

Also wanted to post this here.... Haidut's thread on how Vitamin D is an Endotoxin Antagonist-

Vitamin D Is Endotoxin (LPS / TLR4) Antagonist, May Treat LPS-linked Conditions

 

[Forsythia]

Tankasnowgod, how is your high dose Vitamin D experiment going?

 

[baccheion]

Also wanted to post this here.... Haidut's thread on how Vitamin D is an Endotoxin Antagonist-

Vitamin D Is Endotoxin (LPS / TLR4) Antagonist, May Treat LPS-linked Conditions

How is your experiment going?

I'm wrapping mine up now. Cavities didn't go away and one is now to the dentin. Gained weight around the middle, had difficulty sleeping, and testosterone was near the bottom of the range (558 ng/dL w/ 79.2 pg/mL free in May 2018 and 346 ng/dL w/ 57.4 pg/mL free in May 2019).

Heh.

 

[tankasnowgod]

How is your experiment going?

I'm wrapping mine up now. Cavities didn't go away and one is now to the dentin. Gained weight around the middle, had difficulty sleeping, and testosterone was near the bottom of the range (558 ng/dL w/ 79.2 pg/mL free in May 2018 and 346 ng/dL w/ 57.4 pg/mL free in May 2019).

Heh.

Yeah, I didn't notice any real benefits myself. I still have some of the 50,000 IU tablets, probably finish them out this week or so, and I'll be going back to a dose of 5,000 or 10,000 iu.

 

[baccheion]

Yeah, I didn't notice any real benefits myself. I still have some of the 50,000 IU tablets, probably finish them out this week or so, and I'll be going back to a dose of 5,000 or 10,000 iu.

How much did you take and for how long?

Iodine protocol is working out much better (again).

 

[baccheion]

3 mg seems more reasonable. Thanks for the links.

Did you try anything?

 

[Blossom]

Did you try anything?

Yes, I’ve tried 3 mg of Now brand but not with any real consistency. It feels pretty dramatic for my few lingering menopause symptoms so I’m leaning toward using it regularly and making a borax solution instead of taking the pills. It seems very promising for bones and a few other issues I’ve had come and go over the years.

 

[baccheion]

Yes, I’ve tried 3 mg of Now brand but not with any real consistency. It feels pretty dramatic for my few lingering menopause symptoms so I’m leaning toward using it regularly and making a borax solution instead of taking the pills. It seems very promising for bones and a few other issues I’ve had come and go over the years.

3 mg boron or melatonin?

 

[Blossom]

3 mg boron or melatonin?

Boron.
I’ve used 300 mcg of melatonin for sleeping when I’m working nights.

 

[Amazoniac]

- We Know Next to Nothing About Vitamin D in Horses!

 

[Kingpinguin]

You seem to know Bowles work quite well, and also look to have experimented with it. Have you noticed any benefits?

Like to share my sisters experience she was diagnosed hypo, pcos, pre diabetic. She went to many doctors. Thyroxine worked at first but then she started ending up at the ER with hyper symptoms/ high adrenaline and high cortisol. Imo she didnt eat enough carbs to counter her thyroxine dosage but shes been braim washed carbs are bad. Think she learned her lesson now. Anyway eventually she god feed up and decided to spend a lot of money to see a specialist in autoimmune disease. This doctor put her on a vitamin D protocol at 50 000 IU daily for a few months also monitoring her vit D and calcium monthly. She basically became symptom free within 3 months. Her appearance completely changed. Went from pale and look tired to golden skin glowing of energy. It was kinda baffling me how it could have sucha profound effect. She said she havent felt so good in many years. And also like to add she lost several kilograms of fat. Imo shes a bit too thin atm but she says she feel great so I dont care but vitamin D defo helped her lose a lot of weight.