Low Toxin Logs Low(er) Vitamin A Log

[dfspcc20]

Several people here mentioned posting a separate thread of low vitamin-A experiences:
Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

So I'm giving it a shot. Here's mine. @charie feel free to combine if you feel the need for it.

I have a *long* history with vitamin A. Retin-A starting around 1994; Accutane in 1996-97. Usual multivitamins and fortified cereals + milk at this time as well. WAFP-inspired starting around 2004, including some stints using CLO & FCLO, but always including liver, liverwurst, braunschweiger up until around October 2018. Also some random Peat-inspired vitamin A supplementation from 2014-2018. Definitely averaged 10K IU+ most days.

Side-note: I'm surprised that I'm still alive and well-functioning today, if carotene, retinol, RA are indeed so toxic.

Inspired by some of the testimonials on the Genereux thread, I decided to try reducing my vitamin A intake around Oct 2018. Not really to solve anything specific, but after being honest with myself and realizing it wasn't really doing anything (obvious) for me.

I'm not really "low A" as some others; I've mainly given up the liverwurst & braunschweiger, greatly reduced my egg intake, and more mindful of carotenes in food. Average maybe 2K IU per day, when I enter data into cronometer.

Noticed so far:

- Acne no worse, likely even better. I was under the impression that vitamin A was keeping it at bay before, but that appears not to be the case at all.

- Winter allergies (Mountain Cedar here in Texas) are almost non-existent compared to the last 3 winters. I've had no need for antihistamines this season. Odd since Chris Masterjohn recommended more A for allergies in one of his podcasts.

- Sleep is likely better, though that may be due to lack of allergies. Fewer "groggy" mornings.

- Libido seems stronger and more consistent, though that's hard to rule out all other variables (such as I've been consciously trying to get more zinc from food).

Also, for 2 of my kids, we've been giving them liverwurst & braunschweiger since they were ~9 months old. Maybe 2-3oz each per week last year. Both of them had issues with eczema, and my older son also had the same Mountain Cedar allergies as me. We've stopped given them that (even though they really did enjoy eating it), and, surprise surprise, eczema is much better and my son's allergies were practically non-existent this winter...

So... I was definitely one of the ones resistant to this at first; I really didn't want it to be true. But these are my results. I will continue and see what else happens. Other issues I hope surprisingly resolve are exercise related. Isometric tremors and muscles get shaky/crampy relatively quickly. I don't think that began until discovering Peat...

 

[charlie]

First!

Life under the Low(er) A skies.

 

[Tarmander]

The biggest objective difference for me going low to no A was the resolution of restless leg syndrome. I have had it since I was a teenager. RLS has a higher incidence in type 1 diabetics, a lot of whom take some scary **** drugs to manage. I have done a ton of things for it. I used to drink a lot of tonic water before bed...or I would do niacinamide....potassium would help too. One of the largest triggers was rice. Rice at dinner meant it was tough to get to sleep. Now I can eat rice all day and still no restless leg. The rice tolerance was really the clincher that told me there was something to this no A thing.

 

[Brother John]

First!

Life under the Low(er) A skies.

Yes and for me a better life. I'm a week short of being 69 years on this earth and I have lived a very unconventional life. At the age of 20, I started trying to improve my health. I eventually owned a health supplement store in Seattle WA and was also teaching full time martial arts. My health in terms of energy was sketchy, up an down, joint pain, stamina etc not where I wanted it. While owning the store I found that the supplement industry has some honest players but over all is ruled by greed and ignorance and fads.

I have tried many diet and supplement experiments and the no A diet has really helped more than any subtraction or addition or change that I can recall.

For months now I've been working physically hard for 8 to 12 hours a day. Sometimes 7 days a week. I could not do that before I began this experiment. I still get joint pain but no allergy symptoms and for me that's a big deal. The biggest thing is the energy increase. I have never been over weight but I still lost fat on this diet. Yes I have abs! I don't eat 3 times a day... I eat when I'm hungry. The pot of rice and beef is available to me all day long. So it works out to small meals 4 or 5 times a day. I used to try energy drinks like Monster or Rock Star and they would knock me down hard. Not now.

I wonder if a simple diet makes it easier for the body to combat the bacteria within us? Perhaps having less types of bacteria is easier to deal with and I am suggesting that because of the simple diet a lot of competing bugs might not be there. Warfare, (even between bugs), does seem to muck up the environment...IE increased endotoxins..

I wonder if the body uses Vitamin A for many of the processes that researchers suggest Vitamin A is needed for, because it's there. There and maybe blocking other ways the body has of getting things done. I'm theorizing that the body may be able to use other factors for the same functions now attributed to V A. And perhaps the body prefers using other substances rather than A.

And I wonder if perhaps we actually need V A but in tiny amounts. Amounts almost impossible to not receive in most menus, even very low A menus.

Other benefits that I might attribute to lowering my stores of A: I can do the fastest 2 hand roll on Conga drums in my whole life. I can usually type faster. My memory of street directions is better.

Maybe the benefits will disappear tomorrow but I doubt it. I feel good....
I'm glad this new thread is here!
Thanks!!
Brother John

 

[InChristAlone]

Yes and for me a better life. I'm a week short of being 69 years on this earth and I have lived a very unconventional life. At the age of 20, I started trying to improve my health. I eventually owned a health supplement store in Seattle WA and was also teaching full time martial arts. My health in terms of energy was sketchy, up an down, joint pain, stamina etc not where I wanted it. While owning the store I found that the supplement industry has some honest players but over all is ruled by greed and ignorance and fads.

I have tried many diet and supplement experiments and the no A diet has really helped more than any subtraction or addition or change that I can recall.

For months now I've been working physically hard for 8 to 12 hours a day. Sometimes 7 days a week. I could not do that before I began this experiment. I still get joint pain but no allergy symptoms and for me that's a big deal. The biggest thing is the energy increase. I have never been over weight but I still lost fat on this diet. Yes I have abs! I don't eat 3 times a day... I eat when I'm hungry. The pot of rice and beef is available to me all day long. So it works out to small meals 4 or 5 times a day. I used to try energy drinks like Monster or Rock Star and they would knock me down hard. Not now.

I wonder if a simple diet makes it easier for the body to combat the bacteria within us? Perhaps having less types of bacteria is easier to deal with and I am suggesting that because of the simple diet a lot of competing bugs might not be there. Warfare, (even between bugs), does seem to muck up the environment...IE increased endotoxins..

I wonder if the body uses Vitamin A for many of the processes that researchers suggest Vitamin A is needed for, because it's there. There and maybe blocking other ways the body has of getting things done. I'm theorizing that the body may be able to use other factors for the same functions now attributed to V A. And perhaps the body prefers using other substances rather than A.

And I wonder if perhaps we actually need V A but in tiny amounts. Amounts almost impossible to not receive in most menus, even very low A menus.

Other benefits that I might attribute to lowering my stores of A: I can do the fastest 2 hand roll on Conga drums in my whole life. I can usually type faster. My memory of street directions is better.

Maybe the benefits will disappear tomorrow but I doubt it. I feel good....
I'm glad this new thread is here!
Thanks!!
Brother John

Yes I am a believer in a simple diet. I think they are wrong about diversity. I mean as long as we get plenty of nutrition of the foods we do eat, then it doesn't matter if the diet isn't diverse, we probably get good at extracting what we need out of the foods we regularly eat.

That is amazing you are doing so well at your age! Do you use any supplements?

 

[Vinero]

.

 

[charlie]

FYI, this is @dfspcc20's personal log. If someone wants to make a "Low Vitamin A Testimonials" thread that would be great.

 

[somuch4food]

Several people here mentioned posting a separate thread of low vitamin-A experiences:

From that, I thought he was meaning that it was a testimonials thread and not his personal log.

 

[charlie]

From that, I thought he was meaning that it was a testimonials thread and not his personal log.

Yeh maybe you are right. Hopefully @dfspcc20 will clarify.

 

[dfspcc20]

The biggest objective difference for me going low to no A was the resolution of restless leg syndrome. I have had it since I was a teenager. RLS has a higher incidence in type 1 diabetics, a lot of whom take some scary **** drugs to manage. I have done a ton of things for it. I used to drink a lot of tonic water before bed...or I would do niacinamide....potassium would help too. One of the largest triggers was rice. Rice at dinner meant it was tough to get to sleep. Now I can eat rice all day and still no restless leg. The rice tolerance was really the clincher that told me there was something to this no A thing.

I've noticed the same thing with rice. I always attributed it to maybe the rice was undercooked or something. Haven't tried since lowering A. I never got the same thing from other starches, like wheat, oats or potatoes.

@Brother John Thanks for sharing. Yours was one of the testimonials that inspired me.

@charlie @somuch4food maybe I put this in the wrong sub-forum. I don't mind if others share their experiences. I would like to keep it as "experiences only", either positive or negative. I don't really want the debate & over-intellectualizing like in the Genereux thread.

 

[milk_lover]

You guys eat only white rice and beef? That would get old fast. How about no-fortified milk? Does it have enough vit A to violate the low vitamin A diet?

 

[MarcelZD]

You guys eat only white rice and beef? That would get old fast. How about no-fortified milk? Does it have enough vit A to violate the low vitamin A diet?

I can only speak for myself, but milk is usually enough to send me in a downward spiral. I make do with beef, bread and beans for the most part.

 

[dfspcc20]

You guys eat only white rice and beef? That would get old fast. How about no-fortified milk? Does it have enough vit A to violate the low vitamin A diet?

Other are doing that, but not me. As I mentioned, I mainly went down from ~10000 IU to 2000 IU per day, mainly by stopping liver-based foods and limiting eggs.

 

[Blossom]

I can only speak for myself, but milk is usually enough to send me in a downward spiral. I make do with beef, bread and beans for the most part.

Yes, I tried non-fortified milk early on and it was better than fortified but I made the best progress after quitting it altogether.

 

[Cirion]

I wonder if a lot of problems people are having with milk is simply that people are converting the tryptophan to serotonin instead of niacin? I can understand, I seem to have this problem myself. But for me personally, I am trying to minimize PUFA and milk is the only way to do so, so I'm forcing myself to try to make milk work (Ie, not convert to serotonin).

@Blossom where did you find non-fortified milk? Are you referring to raw milk?

 

[Blossom]

I wonder if a lot of problems people are having with milk is simply that people are converting the tryptophan to serotonin instead of niacin? I can understand, I seem to have this problem myself. But for me personally, I am trying to minimize PUFA and milk is the only way to do so, so I'm forcing myself to try to make milk work (Ie, not convert to serotonin).

I think I’m getting equivalent amounts of tryptophan from meat compared to when I was drinking milk. My gut was probably producing lots of serotonin from being irritated though. I’m sure the issue about conversion you brought up could apply to some people. I just decided after 5 years of trying to make milk work for me to stop for a while.

where did you find non-fortified milk? Are you referring to raw milk?

Kalona Supernatural whole milk is what I used and I bought it from Whole Foods.

 

[Cirion]

Ahh, I keep hoping somewhere I can get non fortified skim milk but I think it's not possible unless you wanna skim your own milk?

 

[Blossom]

Ahh, I keep hoping somewhere I can get non fortified skim milk but I think it's not possible unless you wanna skim your own milk?

I don’t think that exists in the US because of fortification regulations.
Usually most of the fat would be on the top so I’d just discard it. Since it wasn’t homogenized there would be random fat globules floating around and I didn’t worry about those.

 

[milk_lover]

I can only speak for myself, but milk is usually enough to send me in a downward spiral. I make do with beef, bread and beans for the most part.

Is it because of vit A in the milk? Bread has gluten which is probably hard to digest for many people but for some reason I tolerate it better than supermarket cheese.

 

[somuch4food]

Is it because of vit A in the milk? Bread has gluten which is probably hard to digest for many people but for some reason I tolerate it better than supermarket cheese.

Casein can also worsened a lot of things related to A. So, it might be more the casein than the vit A content that causes trouble.