Low Toxin Logs Hypervitaminosis A — A Case Study Of Myself

[youngsinatra]

Hello everyone,

I frequently post in the thread „Grant Generoux Vitamin A Toxicity“. But I decided to start a separate thread to keep a more clean overview.

Background:
I started a pro-metabolic diet around 2 years ago, firstly inspired by Stan Efferding‘s „Vertical Diet“, who quoted Ray Peat on a few occasions in his work.
I incorporated more and more principles of Ray into my diet and lifestyle by focusing on consuming more nutrient-dense foods like whole eggs, ground beef, beef liver, orange juice, cooked mushrooms, raw carrots, salt, calcium and coffee.
I started playing around with a few supplements that were discussed in the forum - like niacinamide, thiamine, magnesium, vitamin D/K2 and then also retinyl palmitate. So I also started reading up on vitamin A on this forum. I found some statements about the A : D ratio and applied that to myself, as I took vitamin D for years beforehand. I usually took like 5000-10000 IU of D3 per day and subsequently I took it in a 1:5 ratio with vitamin A, so I took 25’000-50’000 IU of vitamin A per day.
In the beginning I felt awesome - my libido was perked up, my mind felt calm and amazing and I totally fell in love with retinol. I took this combo for a year roughly.

I started to feel just a bit off after 6 months. My hands and feet became yellow at the slightest amount of beta carotene, but I just cutted out most of my carotene intake, because I thought that was the problem. But even then I continued the supplementation. My blood pressure started kickin up and up, reaching the clear hypertension zone, sometimes up to 180/110. I started to feel a bit dizzy with momentarily lack of coordination, with more frequent headaches, sometimes showing up with worsening yellow hands, occasional liver pains here and there and worsening digestive issues like diarrhea. On top my skin started peeling like crazy and my skin on my hands looked totally nuked.
The symptoms were slowly building up and worsening over time. This season of fall 2021 I started to feel very strong vertigo, heavy palpitations, crushing headaches feeling like strong pressure on the skull, vision problems, blood pressure even more elevated. I needed to take time off work because I couldn’t function. I am still certificated to stay at home until new year from my doctor.

I stumbled across the vitamin A toxicity thread and read articles about it on PubMed. The symptoms matched perfectly - the chronic dosage also matched, so I just needed to confirm it with blood work.

Here is my recent panel that I did at a private lab:

serum retinol - 87.1 mcg/dl (ref: 32.5-78.0 mcg/dl) E+
vitamin D 25(OH)D - 83 ng/ml (ref: 30-100 ng/ml)
serum calcium - 2.37 mmol/L (ref: 2.20 - 2.70 nmol/L)
GOT - 48 U/L (ref: 10-50 U/L)
GPT - 161 U/L (ref: 10-50 U/L) E+
GGT - 25 U/L (ref: 9 - 48 U/L)
Alk. Phosphatase - 85 U/L (ref: 40-130 U/L)

Today I received blood test results from my general practitioner:



What‘s coming next?

I will get sonography/ultrasound of my liver in 2 weeks to check for NAFLD or other pathology. I get follow-up blood work the next weeks. I will see an internist in january to get a 24h-blood pressure measurement.

What am I doing about it at the moment?

Diet: Relatively Low-Vitamin A
Boiled peeled white potatoes (1-2 kg/d)
Oatmeal (100g/d)
Bananas (1-2/d)
Apples (1-2/d)
Lean beef (800g/d)
Whole eggs (4 large/d) — not really low vitamin A but the best source for bioavailable choline for liver regeneration.
Coffee (4-6 cups/d)
2 Liter of mineral water (600mg Ca+/L)

Supplements:
NAC (1-2 grams/d)
Vitamin D (10K IU/d)
Vitamin K2-7 (100-200 mcg/d)
Vitamin E (800 IU)
Magnesium (600-900mg)
Methylated B-Complex (1-2/d)
Glycine (15-30g/d)

 

[Razvan]

Oatmeal... C'mon bro...
I think eating high cholesterol foods can use up your vitamin A storages by a lot.
Supplementing vitamin A is always a bad thing.
I would eat white bread with beef or white rice with beef

 

[Cloudhands]

have you had your thyroid checked recently? Ray usually reccomends people supplement thyroid with retinol to balance eachother out.

 

[InChristAlone]

Did you decide that your overmethylation symptoms were actually hypervitaminosis A?

 

[youngsinatra]

Oatmeal... C'mon bro...
I think eating high cholesterol foods can use up your vitamin A storages by a lot.
Supplementing vitamin A is always a bad thing.
I would eat white bread with beef or white rice with beef

Well-cooked oatmeal makes my stool perfect, so I like to keep it in.
White rice with beef is also something I eat frequently. I usually switch between potatoes and rice.

 

[youngsinatra]

Did you decide that your overmethylation symptoms were actually hypervitaminosis A?

I think the overmethylation issue resolved by restricting copper for a few last months, while keeping in an abundance of zinc. I never had any overmethylation symptom in the last 1.5 months.
Really glad about that because that truely felt like anxiety-paranoia-stress hell.

I actually tolerate relatively normal amounts of copper (3-5mg/d) just fine now and also tolerate other methyl donors much better. (like methylfolate/B12)

Liver is high in both A and copper so maybe both caused problems.

 

[youngsinatra]

have you had your thyroid checked recently? Ray usually reccomends people supplement thyroid with retinol to balance eachother out.

My TSH is elevated at the moment.
T3 and T4 are even at the top of the reference range.

„People with NAFLD were more likely to be male (74.6 vs 39.4%, p < 0.001), have higher modified BMI-z scores (median 2.4 (IQR 1.7) vs 1.9 (IQR 1.7), p < 0.001), and abnormal metabolic parameters (TSH, ALT, HDL-C, non-HDL-C, and TG).

I am excited for the ultrasound of the liver but I suspect NAFLD very strongly. It could explain the elevated TSH as I also have all other „abnormal metabolic parameters“.

 

[Cloudhands]

My TSH is elevated at the moment.
T3 and T4 are even at the top of the reference range.

„People with NAFLD were more likely to be male (74.6 vs 39.4%, p < 0.001), have higher modified BMI-z scores (median 2.4 (IQR 1.7) vs 1.9 (IQR 1.7), p < 0.001), and abnormal metabolic parameters (TSH, ALT, HDL-C, non-HDL-C, and TG).

I am excited for the ultrasound of the liver but I suspect NAFLD very strongly. It could explain the elevated TSH as I also have all other „abnormal metabolic parameters“.

oof, yeah almost any amount of retinol is toxic when you have fatty liver, would make sense.

 

[Vileplume]

My TSH is elevated at the moment.
T3 and T4 are even at the top of the reference range.

„People with NAFLD were more likely to be male (74.6 vs 39.4%, p < 0.001), have higher modified BMI-z scores (median 2.4 (IQR 1.7) vs 1.9 (IQR 1.7), p < 0.001), and abnormal metabolic parameters (TSH, ALT, HDL-C, non-HDL-C, and TG).

I am excited for the ultrasound of the liver but I suspect NAFLD very strongly. It could explain the elevated TSH as I also have all other „abnormal metabolic parameters“.

If you have instagram, @realfoodgangstas (not sure if I agree with a lot of their ideas) just posted a reel talking about NAFLD. Josh Rubin, the main guy, says basically that low vitamin A and copper cause NAFLD. Which is odd because, if I remember your posts correctly, you've consumed plenty of vitamin A and copper in the past.

Even with high T3 and high T4, with your cholesterol above 200 and TSH above 1.5, thyroid could be something to consider.

 

[youngsinatra]

oof, yeah almost any amount of retinol is toxic when you have fatty liver, would make sense.

Hypervitaminosis A is known to cause liver pathology - NAFLD, steatohepatitis and cirrhosis if the hypervitaminosis A is chronic over many years.

 

[youngsinatra]

If you have instagram, @realfoodgangstas (not sure if I agree with a lot of their ideas) just posted a reel talking about NAFLD. Josh Rubin, the main guy, says basically that low vitamin A and copper cause NAFLD. Which is odd because, if I remember your posts correctly, you've consumed plenty of vitamin A and copper in the past.

Even with high T3 and high T4, with your cholesterol above 200 and TSH above 1.5, thyroid could be something to consider.

I followed them for a year on IG.
In some cases that might be the cause of fatty liver, but there are many more reasons for it‘s etiology.

Hypervitaminosis A is known to cause all kinds of liver pathologies - ranging from NAFLD, steatohepatitis and cirrhosis if the hypervitaminosis A is chronic over many years.

They say odd things like that „natural vitamin A“ is different from synthetic vitamin A and that it does not cause problems, but „natural vitamin A“ is known to cause hypervitaminosis A in case studies, too. There are actually fatal cases of „natural A toxicity“ in children.

Retinyl palmitate is the storage form of retinol in both human and animal liver. Free retinol does not occure in food.

 

[InChristAlone]

If you have instagram, @realfoodgangstas (not sure if I agree with a lot of their ideas) just posted a reel talking about NAFLD. Josh Rubin, the main guy, says basically that low vitamin A and copper cause NAFLD. Which is odd because, if I remember your posts correctly, you've consumed plenty of vitamin A and copper in the past.

Even with high T3 and high T4, with your cholesterol above 200 and TSH above 1.5, thyroid could be something to consider.

The Rubins have swallowed up the Root Cause Protocol like it's the gospel. They are friends with Matt Blackburn who also preach vitamin A and copper from liver all the time. It's very dangerous in my opinion. And it may take yrs to see the harmful effects and yrs to reverse it.

 

[Vileplume]

The Rubins have swallowed up the Root Cause Protocol like it's the gospel. They are friends with Matt Blackburn who also preach vitamin A and copper from liver all the time. It's very dangerous in my opinion. And it may take yrs to see the harmful effects and yrs to reverse it.

I came to the same conclusion about their work, like Matt Blackburn's, just being regurgitated Morley Robbins stuff. And I don't trust Morley Robbins to begin with. Something about all three of those parties just rubs me the wrong way. They seem.... disingenuous. Not sure why, just a feeling.

 

[youngsinatra]

The Rubins have swallowed up the Root Cause Protocol like it's the gospel. They are friends with Matt Blackburn who also preach vitamin A and copper from liver all the time. It's very dangerous in my opinion. And it may take yrs to see the harmful effects and yrs to reverse it.

I think so too. I know too many who follow the RCP and don‘t see reversal of health issues and end up with further deterioration, especially psychological issues. The high copper diet really mess up your psyché.

 

[Cloudhands]

I came to the same conclusion about their work, like Matt Blackburn's, just being regurgitated Morley Robbins stuff. And I don't trust Morley Robbins to begin with. Something about all three of those parties just rubs me the wrong way. They seem.... disingenuous. Not sure why, just a feeling.

not to mention morley looks like hes 100 years old... people like to criticize peats appearance but look at jack kruse and morley, fish oil did not serve them well lol

 

[youngsinatra]

not to mention morley looks like hes 100 years old... people like to criticize peats appearance but look at jack kruse and morley, fish oil did not serve them well lol

I agree. How old is he?
Stan Efferding on the other hand looks amazing at age 50+.

 

[youngsinatra]

I experimented with eggs the last few days for their choline content. They sadly seem to cause worsening symptoms, I got bad intracranial pressure and heavy joint pains from them.

Had sensitivity to them for a while and sadly that did not change. They are one of the only foods that seem to cause rheumatic joint pain.

 

[Sefton10]

I experimented with eggs the last few days for their choline content. They sadly seem to cause worsening symptoms, I got bad intracranial pressure and heavy joint pains from them.

Had sensitivity to them for a while and sadly that did not change. They are one of the only foods that seem to cause rheumatic joint pain.

Even if you just have the yolks? The white can be allergenic for some people.

 

[aniciete]

I experimented with eggs the last few days for their choline content. They sadly seem to cause worsening symptoms, I got bad intracranial pressure and heavy joint pains from them.

Had sensitivity to them for a while and sadly that did not change. They are one of the only foods that seem to cause rheumatic joint pain.

Could it be an egg allergy from vaccines? I can’t eat chicken eggs but quail/duck eggs I tolerate very well.

 

[youngsinatra]

Even if you just have the yolks? The white can be allergenic for some people.

Yea both yolks and whites. I tried so many times from different brands and even the highest quality ones.

My mother has the same problem with eggs.