Skyhigh 25,OHD from D3 supplement

Gustav3Y

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There is no irritation I can assure you, it is just your feeling, I just asked directly what is enough salt.
Enough is a subjectivism because there is no objective measure of enough.
 
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Dr. B

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more interesting would be why many have an increased need for certain vitamins. If it is about them forming enzymes, then how come? Are those enzymes one time use then dead or are there things which actively destroy those enzymes? Or maybe you need more of those because of specialised needs?
there is thiaminase and metallothionen (which can be caused by ingesting too many zinc or certain mineral supplements)
i havent heard of the gut destroying other b vitamins but have heard some antibiotics and medicines can deplete certain vitamins and minerals
 

Shackles

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there is thiaminase and metallothionen (which can be caused by ingesting too many zinc or certain mineral supplements)
i havent heard of the gut destroying other b vitamins but have heard some antibiotics and medicines can deplete certain vitamins and minerals
I understand but my questions was more so directed towards those enzymes which these B vitamins are a cofactor of usually. Can they only be used once or why is our "reuirement" so high
 

RealNeat

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Hey,

So I recently got results for vitamin D & calcium blood test, 25,OHD3 was measured
View attachment 31134hs

A bit of context, I made vit D bloodtests about twice a year, and I tried to get out from the deficiency range for so long; I tried sunbathing on a summer, and supplementing ~5K UI daily vit D for few months, to see my blood tests barely above 30 (it was 31 or smth), and then during winter with supp still it went down under 30 again.
However, I was really comitted to put those numbers up because Ray Peat himself told me to have my vit D high enough because of a blood problem I have which could degenerate into cancer otherwise, and because vit D benefits are EVERYWHERE lol, anabolic effects and stuff.

SO, for 2 years I failed pumping up my vit D, and I finally decided to go 1 step further and I did 25K UI daily for 1 month, and this is the result. :lol:

I am obviously stopping supplements, and I don't feel any negative effects at all, if anything I feel better but mainly because my daily life has improved / I take greater care of myself.
I measured my blood calcium which is 0.01 points above limit, but honestly everytime I measured it it was slightly above high end, even 5 years ago, and last PTH blood test came low end of the range.

Since I do feel good I'm not extremely worried, but it's worrisome tho, any suggestion / insights how to survive with these levels ? :fearful:
I wasn't expecting this AT ALL.
Could you give some details as to the brand, consumption method, UV exposure and any other supplements you were taking? Thanks.
 

Dr. B

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I understand but my questions was more so directed towards those enzymes which these B vitamins are a cofactor of usually. Can they only be used once or why is our "reuirement" so high
no theyre constant enzymes. i dont know what the numerical requirement is. its said b vitamins are water soluble so you need to get a certain amount daily or weekly etc. even the minerals like manganese are involved in certain enzymes
 

Mossy

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Yes, I tested a lot. 15k iu pushed my levels up pretty quickly and I was borderline hypercalcemic. It is expected I think as large doses get converted quickly to 1,25 hydroxyvitamin D.

Yes, I typically only stop 1 day before checking levels.
Thank you. That is helpful.
 

Orome

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Anyone knows the book(s) of Jeff T. Bowles? Actually I got interested in Vitamin D and the idea of a chronic deficiency among most people after reading his books. And that was I think a few years before I knew of Dr. Peat and his work. According to him the risk of Vitamin D toxicity is very small and could be kept at a minimum if there are no deficiencies among the co-factors (mainly Vitamin K2, Magnesium and Boron).
I know his books are a bit "sensational" but he also cites a lot of Pubmed studies. For example:

That was also when I started supplementing, first small doses < 5000 IU which I steadily increased. Today my default supplement is a 30000 IU capsule. During summer times I take ~1-3 per week depending on my time outdoors (I have an office job). Now during winter I take 1 capsule at least every other day. Whenever I have the feeling that I might get a cold (eg. scratchy throat) I take very high dosis (2-3 capsules per day) until symptoms go away (which is usually within the same day). That being said I haven't been sick for a long time (which could be a coincidence of course).
 

Jam

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Anyone knows the book(s) of Jeff T. Bowles? Actually I got interested in Vitamin D and the idea of a chronic deficiency among most people after reading his books. And that was I think a few years before I knew of Dr. Peat and his work. According to him the risk of Vitamin D toxicity is very small and could be kept at a minimum if there are no deficiencies among the co-factors (mainly Vitamin K2, Magnesium and Boron).
I know his books are a bit "sensational" but he also cites a lot of Pubmed studies. For example:

That was also when I started supplementing, first small doses < 5000 IU which I steadily increased. Today my default supplement is a 30000 IU capsule. During summer times I take ~1-3 per week depending on my time outdoors (I have an office job). Now during winter I take 1 capsule at least every other day. Whenever I have the feeling that I might get a cold (eg. scratchy throat) I take very high dosis (2-3 capsules per day) until symptoms go away (which is usually within the same day). That being said I haven't been sick for a long time (which could be a coincidence of course).
Yes, @tankasnowgod has a whole thread about it. Anecdotally, since I started taking iodide and d3 (15k IU daily in the winter, 5k in the summer) several years ago, I haven't gotten a single cold, not even the hints of one.
 

youngsinatra

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Anyone knows the book(s) of Jeff T. Bowles? Actually I got interested in Vitamin D and the idea of a chronic deficiency among most people after reading his books. And that was I think a few years before I knew of Dr. Peat and his work. According to him the risk of Vitamin D toxicity is very small and could be kept at a minimum if there are no deficiencies among the co-factors (mainly Vitamin K2, Magnesium and Boron).
I know his books are a bit "sensational" but he also cites a lot of Pubmed studies. For example:

That was also when I started supplementing, first small doses < 5000 IU which I steadily increased. Today my default supplement is a 30000 IU capsule. During summer times I take ~1-3 per week depending on my time outdoors (I have an office job). Now during winter I take 1 capsule at least every other day. Whenever I have the feeling that I might get a cold (eg. scratchy throat) I take very high dosis (2-3 capsules per day) until symptoms go away (which is usually within the same day). That being said I haven't been sick for a long time (which could be a coincidence of course).
Have you tested your 25OHD ever since with that high doses?

I think at high doses (20-30K IU/d and above) it‘s important to consciously keep your calcium intake low. People on the Coimbra protocol often have 200-300 ng/ml of 25OHD, but with a low calcium diet and lots of K2 + magnesium they don‘t get hypercalcemia. They often use 1000 IU D3 per kg of bodyweight.

I am still skeptical about this and I highly recommend working with a physician on this, testing vitamin D, calcium, kidney function etc. monthly for 6-12 months.
 

Vanset

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Yes, @tankasnowgod has a whole thread about it. Anecdotally, since I started taking iodide and d3 (15k IU daily in the winter, 5k in the summer) several years ago, I haven't gotten a single cold, not even the hints of one.
do you know what your levels are?
 

Orome

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Yes, @tankasnowgod has a whole thread about it. Anecdotally, since I started taking iodide and d3 (15k IU daily in the winter, 5k in the summer) several years ago, I haven't gotten a single cold, not even the hints of one.
Yes, my experience as well. Although at around the same time I also changed my diet from high starch to low starch which fixed a lot of digestive issues. Maybe this contributed to it also

Have you tested your 25OHD ever since with that high doses?

I think at high doses (20-30K IU/d and above) it‘s important to consciously keep your calcium intake low. People on the Coimbra protocol often have 200-300 ng/ml of 25OHD, but with a low calcium diet and lots of K2 + magnesium they don‘t get hypercalcemia. They often use 1000 IU D3 per kg of bodyweight.

I am still skeptical about this and I highly recommend working with a physician on this, testing vitamin D, calcium, kidney function etc. monthly for 6-12 months.
I haven't tested for quite some time now. Last bloodworks were in March/April I guess with 25OHD at 87ng/l I think. But since I took 30000 IU every day for the last ~3 weeks I will get a test soon (I increased the dosage because two co-workers got tested positive for Covid). I can post the results here in case someone is interested.

In my opinion the 5000 IU recommendation Dr. Peat mentions is ok if you live the optimal life, eg. waking up after sunrise, being outside and exposed to light etc. But in my case I do not even see the light of day at the moment (8-5 office job + 2 hours in my car every day). There is no way 5000 IU is enough fo me. At least this I have confirmed by blookworks many years ago.
Jeff Bowles also mentions several times in his book that the body of an adult who is sunbathing for only 30 minutes in Finland (=high latitude) converts 20000 IU Vitamin D.

But I do agree that someone should not try this without proper monitoring and a physician. For myself it's just that I have no trust in them anymore, except alternative medicine. They have harmed me in so many ways when I was young that I now try to figure out as much as I can by myself ("fire your doctor and never be sick again" ;)). But seriously, if you have a good gp then speak with him/her.
 
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Orome

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Digged up an old paper from 1948 which discusses toxicity symptoms after ultra high long term use.
The highest daily dose received by any patient was 600,000 I.U.; the lowest dose was 150,000 IU. Duration of therapy prior to onset of toxic symptoms was highly variable, ranging from two months to eighteen months. The patient who received the largest daily dose, 600,000 IU., became ill earliest; but the patient who received the next highest dose, 500,000 I.U., did not manifest symptoms until he had taken the drug for eighteen months.
Seven of the 10 arthritic patients insisted that their joint symptoms were improved during the period of vitamin D administration.
 

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Orome

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Was this experiment done with D2?
I am not 100% sure. In a summary I found for that study they write "Vitamin D3". However they do not mention it in the paper itself. They only mention Vitamin D2 for the eleventh patient.
The eleventh patient was one in whom we ourselves induced hypercalcemia with calciferol (crystalline vitamin D2) in an extraordinarily short period of time (fourteen days)
So either is was Vitamin D2 for all 11 patients or Vitamin D3 for ten patients + Vitamin D2 for the eleventh. The latter would explain why the patient on Vitamin D2 developed hypercalcemia in such a short period of time.

There are many similar studies like this and my personal conclusion is that the risks are limited and will most likely only manifest after a prolonged use of very high doses of Vitamin D3. I am doing this for the third winter in a row now (many weeks with 30.000 IU/day and for the rest 30.000 IU every other day) and have not experienced any side effects so far. And I do have a very high calcium intake through milk and cheese at the same time.
 

Shackles

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I am not 100% sure. In a summary I found for that study they write "Vitamin D3". However they do not mention it in the paper itself. They only mention Vitamin D2 for the eleventh patient.

So either is was Vitamin D2 for all 11 patients or Vitamin D3 for ten patients + Vitamin D2 for the eleventh. The latter would explain why the patient on Vitamin D2 developed hypercalcemia in such a short period of time.

There are many similar studies like this and my personal conclusion is that the risks are limited and will most likely only manifest after a prolonged use of very high doses of Vitamin D3. I am doing this for the third winter in a row now (many weeks with 30.000 IU/day and for the rest 30.000 IU every other day) and have not experienced any side effects so far. And I do have a very high calcium intake through milk and cheese at the same time.
They used D2 on the eleventh to limit test D3.
 

Orome

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So after 3 months supplementing with 30000 IU first every other day and since December on a daily basis I did bloodwork last week and my 25-OHD came back 81,16 ng/ml. That's even on the lower end of what i expected (I was aiming for 120 ng/ml).

So my conclusions (both from my own experience and from the various studies I read) are:
- your needs are probably highly individual and it makes sense to test once or twice a year.
- the 5000 IU Dr. Peat recommends might be a good starting point but depending on your situation your needs could be much higher.
- it seems to be very hard to overdose.
- a serum level on the higher end (which doctors would already consider too high) still seem to be better than a level on the lower end (for disease prevention and overall well-being).
 

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