Unable to sleep, exhausted all day/everyday - developing dark circles under eyes. Getting desperate.

[DrivesOldTruck]

The exercise/sunlight sounds good. I’d shoot for more than just one hour in the sun, if possible. There may be things that you usually do indoors that you could do just as well outside. A lot of people also find that ‘grounding’ during the day gives them better sleep. It’s as simple as putting your bare feet to the natural ground (socks and concrete in between aren’t ideal.) An example for both ideas could be eating your dinner outside with your feet on some available grass/dirt.

How close to sundown are you trying to go to bed, and how close to sunrise are you getting up? I ask for a few reasons:

-personally I get the best sleep when I go to bed close to sundown. It can be difficult to schedule, and mentally sometimes I’m not ready, but whenever I make it a priority it helps a lot toward sleep quality. I also wake up earlier and more energized so if there was something I wanted to get finished the night before, it’s actually better to get done the next day

-I also have a tendency to wake up when the sun comes up because the light through my window wakes me. If I didn’t get to bed at a reasonable time the night before then I may be able to “sleep” for a couple hours more, but it isn’t ever deep sleep.

Blue light, whether it be from tv, phone, white light bulbs, computer screen, etc. can also throw off sleep for many people. Avoid it as bedtime approaches.

I'm trying to go to bed at (or closely after) sundown, and wake up when the sun comes up. I think the sun peering through my window shades also has a tendency to wake me up (assuming I'm asleep at that time). I do wear blue-light blocking glasses (large ones with a orange tint, they look like something you'd wear on a construction site) for ~2 hours before bed. Even if I combine the glasses with zero evening screen exposure (for example, wearing the glasses while reading a physical book), I don't see any relief of sleep issues. Definitely going to try grounding and see what happens.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

A friend recently stayed over and said he hadn't sleep so well in a long time and that he can't sleep very well at home because of stress. It could be just being too caught up with work and life in general that you can't relax and get deep sleep. That would explain why sleeping drunk or in a hotel room helps. If you drink a warm glass or full fat milk with a tablespoon of sugar and it has a positive effect, it's likely glycogen related. Otherwise, I'm betting on stress.

In other threads on the forum, users have noticed improved sleep by eating an entire pint of ice cream before bed. I've tried this (and other meals) with absolutely no effect on my sleep issues. I try not to drink liquids immediately before bed (warm milk, tea, etc.) because it causes me to wake up in the middle of the night to urinate.

The thing is, my lifestyle right now is virtually stress-less. I don't have any schedule I have to keep. I can wake up whenever I want. I don't have a boss. Not worried about paying my bills or anything. Doesn't mean I'm rich or super happy about everything in my life, but I'm really just chilling at the moment. I think my problem is stress related, but it seems like it's an internal physiological/psychological stress source (like from restricting dietary carbs) rather than an external lifestyle stress source (like from a stressful job).

 

[jrayr90]

thanks for everyone’s responses. I’m in a similar situation and have been considering making essentially this exact post for a while now. Think I’ll try cyproheptadine

Anyone know where to find it?

Edit: got from idéalabs

 

[Mauritio]

Mold exposure wrecked my sleep for years.

Same

 

[Mathgirl]

Another thought. Sleep has been amazing lately...B vitamins (Via Dr. Stasha Gominak Neurologist research) Ice cream at night (Ray Peat) and Tocovit topically. (Idealabs via Haidut)

 

[Sphagnum]

In other threads on the forum, users have noticed improved sleep by eating an entire pint of ice cream before bed. I've tried this (and other meals) with absolutely no effect on my sleep issues. I try not to drink liquids immediately before bed (warm milk, tea, etc.) because it causes me to wake up in the middle of the night to urinate.

The thing is, my lifestyle right now is virtually stress-less. I don't have any schedule I have to keep. I can wake up whenever I want. I don't have a boss. Not worried about paying my bills or anything. Doesn't mean I'm rich or super happy about everything in my life, but I'm really just chilling at the moment. I think my problem is stress related, but it seems like it's an internal physiological/psychological stress source (like from restricting dietary carbs) rather than an external lifestyle stress source (like from a stressful job).

Are you saying that you’re restricting dietary carbs, or just that the stress you feel is similar to what one would feel if restricting carbs?

 

[frannybananny]

Go slow with Cypro...one drop does it for me.

Where do you get your Cypro?

 

[frannybananny]

Another thought. Sleep has been amazing lately...B vitamins (Via Dr. Stasha Gominak Neurologist research) Ice cream at night (Ray Peat) and Tocovit topically. (Idealabs via Haidut)

All ice cream...even the best ones with no additives have a ton of salt and make me wake up with cotton mouth in the middle of the night. I love it though and it does help me sleep.

 

[HeyThere]

Doesn't the ice cream give you a gross white coated tongue the next morning?

 

[wzuo]

I was also waking up to urinate despite I drank something or not. Having proper meal before sleep was one thing, for example 1l milk with sugar, but cypro was a game changer and with it I can sleep whole night without waking up. When I wake up I immediately go pee as my bladder is full.
So I would say that problem is that your sleep is not deep enough and that causes waking up to pee.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

Are you saying that you’re restricting dietary carbs, or just that the stress you feel is similar to what one would feel if restricting carbs?

Neither. I don't feel any stress at all, I'm just exhausted all day from being unable to get restful sleep. My point was that there's nothing in my lifestyle that adds stress to my life. I'm assuming my sleeplessness is a product of a physiological stress response though. So If I don't have any external stressors from my lifestyle, then there has to be something wrong with my physiology that's elevating cortisol or messing up something else. Maybe I'm completely wrong on that point and it's something else, I don't know.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

Another thought. Sleep has been amazing lately...B vitamins (Via Dr. Stasha Gominak Neurologist research) Ice cream at night (Ray Peat) and Tocovit topically. (Idealabs via Haidut)

Thanks for bringin Dr. Gominak to my attention. She has a lot of great long-form interviews posted on YouTube which I will dive into this week. I've tried the 1 pint of ice cream every night before bed but unfortunately that has zero effect on my sleep. I will add Tocovit to my to-do list.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

Sleep Better To-Do List:​

- Check for parasites/dysbiotic bacteria via GI-MAP stool test (@chrstn4o)
- Liver flushes: Andrea Moritz protocol (@chrstn4o)
- Explore grounding your bed (@StephanF)
- Do what humans have done for centuries until "modern" quick rinseoff showering became a trend---a hot bath. Adding Epsom salts (magnesium) and baking soda will be absorbed thru your largest organ the skin. (@akgrrrl AND @Kocky777)
- Shoot for more than an hour of sunlight per day. Explore grounding during the day for better sleep. (@Sphagnum)
- Explore excessive EMF's (@Layne)
- Experiment.. sleep in a different room for a few days, see if that does anything. You may have associated "going to sleep" as a stressful situation. (@HeyThere AND @Bozidar)
- Add more salt to food and a small pinch to the milk/juices you're drinking. If you take it too far, you may end up with a kind of high energy insomnia; be prepared to drink a bit of water before you sleep if that happens. (@ThinPicking)
- Try L-Ornithine to get the alcohol/ammonia out of his system, excellent amino acid for this. Also Taurine to lower Glutamate levels in the brain. Screw alcohol, take CBD gummies. You will feel BETTER in the morning with these as you'll still be calm and "loose" rather than hungover and dehydrated. (@HeyThere)
- Cyproheptadine - it has a calming effect so maybe it could solve his problem in two ways - 1st that cypro makes better sleep in general, and 2nd that he will not be stressed while not being able to sleep. Go slow with Cypro...one drop does it for me. (@Mathgirl AND @wzuo AND @Mathgirl)
- Look into phosphatidylserine (@Kocky777)
- I sleep on the couch in the living room because "bed in bedroom" is too "OK NOW YOU SLEEP" for me and my mind starts over-thinking. I get it. The couch is unconventional so it feels like "in a hotel". (@HeyThere)
- So, in my own Insomnia thread, @Peatful gave me the very effective advice to eat "1 pound of sugar in three days". I ate approximately 200 grams of honey and tonight I slept REALLY WELL and was also able to sleep WITHIN A FEW MINUTES. (@Kocky777)
- One thing I meant to put in my original reply in regards to the hotel thing, is that you may just need a new mattress. Different sheets as well. Different pillows. (@Sphagnum AND @HeyThere)

Crossing a couple items off the list: 1) Adding more salt to the diet had no effect on my sleep, it just made me more thirsty throughout the day. 2) I don't have a different room to sleep in, but last night I tried sleeping in a sleeping bad on the floor on the other side of my studio. I feel even worse than usual today, so I'm never trying that again.

I'm going to try sleeping on my couch tonight and see if that does anything for me.

 

[Sphagnum]

Crossing a couple items off the list: 1) Adding more salt to the diet had no effect on my sleep, it just made me more thirsty throughout the day. 2) I don't have a different room to sleep in, but last night I tried sleeping in a sleeping bad on the floor on the other side of my studio. I feel even worse than usual today, so I'm never trying that again.

I'm going to try sleeping on my couch tonight and see if that does anything for me.

Report back on how the couch goes.

Most people sleep best on firm/medium-firm mattresses, but I wake up all night on them.
When I met my wife, her bed wasn’t big enough for both of us to sleep so we’d sleep on the floor. She loved it and even did it sometimes when I wasn’t there because it was comfortable to her. I, on the other hand, had the worst sleep of my life over there.
The best sleep I get now is often on our couch because it is so plush and soft. I can also keep my upper body elevated (inclined sleeping, which hasn’t been mentioned yet. Maybe check that out too.)


One other thing, since I see EMF on the list, but didn’t see this specifically mentioned: then your wifi router off at night.
My kids would wake up constantly at night, many times complaining about “bad dreams.” When I started shutting it off every night, the wake ups stopped. If I forgot or was away and my wife didn’t bother, their sleep disturbances would start up again. I never noticed a difference in my own sleep, but they seemed affected.
I had already bought my own personal router hooked up to a modem, so I can have it programmed to automatically turn off at a set time, but if you have cable company equipment you may have to manually shut it off.

 

[frannybananny]

Neither. I don't feel any stress at all, I'm just exhausted all day from being unable to get restful sleep. My point was that there's nothing in my lifestyle that adds stress to my life. I'm assuming my sleeplessness is a product of a physiological stress response though. So If I don't have any external stressors from my lifestyle, then there has to be something wrong with my physiology that's elevating cortisol or messing up something else. Maybe I'm completely wrong on that point and it's something else, I don't know.

After retiring from being a "nightclub singer" most of my adult life and getting to bed at 2:30 - 3:00 AM I spent a decade of trying to learn how to get to sleep. I have found a few things that really do help me (instead of too much alcohol). Taurine is great, in fact I take magnesium taurate almost every night, milk thistle seems to help, 2 drops of Progest-E will really knock me out and CDB/hemp gummies make me sleep through the night. A note that most gummies used to be very expensive but I found a brand on amazon that is affordable, like $20 buck but now I see they are unavailable....bummer. Maybe find something similar. They really work well. Amazon product ASIN B0BCXWJNDKView: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BCXWJNDK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[frannybananny]

After retiring from being a "nightclub singer" most of my adult life and getting to bed at 2:30 - 3:00 AM I spent a decade of trying to learn how to get to sleep. I have found a few things that really do help me (instead of too much alcohol). Taurine is great, in fact I take magnesium taurate almost every night, milk thistle seems to help, 2 drops of Progest-E will really knock me out and CDB/hemp gummies make me sleep through the night. A note that most gummies used to be very expensive but I found a brand on amazon that is affordable, like $20 buck but now I see they are unavailable....bummer. Maybe find something similar. They really work well. Amazon product ASIN B0BCXWJNDKView: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BCXWJNDK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I see that they are available if you buy 3 bottles at a time ....still way less expensive than most out there. Amazon product ASIN B09W4V8P9XView: https://www.amazon.com/Gummies-Anxiety-Inflammation-Relief-Strength/dp/B09W4V8P9X/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=RiRywony+Health&qid=1691610266&sr=8-2

 

[HeyThere]

After retiring from being a "nightclub singer" most of my adult life and getting to bed at 2:30 - 3:00 AM I spent a decade of trying to learn how to get to sleep. I have found a few things that really do help me (instead of too much alcohol). Taurine is great, in fact I take magnesium taurate almost every night, milk thistle seems to help, 2 drops of Progest-E will really knock me out and CDB/hemp gummies make me sleep through the night. A note that most gummies used to be very expensive but I found a brand on amazon that is affordable, like $20 buck but now I see they are unavailable....bummer. Maybe find something similar. They really work well. Amazon product ASIN B0BCXWJNDKView: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BCXWJNDK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have tried a lot of CBD gummies and the only ones that work great with no side effects (I'm sensitive) and are a great price is CBD Living. I personally like the vegan ones. PLEASE help me out by clicking on a link that will throw me some free points to my next purchase! I swear on these gummies. ZERO grassy taste, work quickly for me. If I have the 750 mg ones I just bite the head off the gummy (ha ha) and that works for me until I bite maybe another similar size 2 hours later. Every body is different, but if you are familiar with CBD Gummies, i really think you'll like these. And you cannot beat the price!! (You get $15 off your 1st purchase if you click my link
CBD Water | CBD Gummies & CBD Topicals | CBD Oil - CBD Living )

 

[frannybananny]

I have tried a lot of CBD gummies and the only ones that work great with no side effects (I'm sensitive) and are a great price is CBD Living. I personally like the vegan ones. PLEASE help me out by clicking on a link that will throw me some free points to my next purchase! I swear on these gummies. ZERO grassy taste, work quickly for me. If I have the 750 mg ones I just bite the head off the gummy (ha ha) and that works for me until I bite maybe another similar size 2 hours later. Every body is different, but if you are familiar with CBD Gummies, i really think you'll like these. And you cannot beat the price!! (You get $15 off your 1st purchase if you click my link
CBD Water | CBD Gummies & CBD Topicals | CBD Oil - CBD Living )

Thanks for this! They look good and I might be trying them when I need a refill.

 

[HeyThere]

Thanks for this! They look good and I might be trying them when I need a refill.

You're so very welcome! I have honestly tried sooo many!

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

Back with an update! Slept on the couch for a couple nights, but it had no positive impact impact on sleep (it was almost as bad as sleeping on the floor). This weekend I'm going to try EMF reduction. This will entail turning off my WIFI router at right, and also stopping all use of wireless earbuds (air pods) during the day. I live in a studio apartment, so presumably there is still EMF cross-over from routers in adjacent apartments. I'll give this two nights of sleep and we'll see how it goes.

Sleep Better To-Do List (updated with additional comments):​

- Check for parasites/dysbiotic bacteria via GI-MAP stool test (@chrstn4o)
- Liver flushes: Andrea Moritz protocol (@chrstn4o)
- Explore grounding your bed (@StephanF)
- Do what humans have done for centuries until "modern" quick rinseoff showering became a trend---a hot bath. Adding Epsom salts (magnesium) and baking soda will be absorbed thru your largest organ the skin. (@akgrrrl AND @Kocky777)
- Shoot for more than an hour of sunlight per day. Explore grounding during the day for better sleep. (@Sphagnum)
- Explore excessive EMF's - going to turn off my WIFI router at night and stop using apple ear pods during the day. (@Layne AND @Sphagnum)
- Experiment.. sleep in a different room for a few days, see if that does anything. You may have associated "going to sleep" as a stressful situation. (@HeyThere AND @Bozidar)
- Add more salt to food and a small pinch to the milk/juices you're drinking. If you take it too far, you may end up with a kind of high energy insomnia; be prepared to drink a bit of water before you sleep if that happens. (@ThinPicking)
- Try L-Ornithine to get the alcohol/ammonia out of his system, excellent amino acid for this. Also Taurine to lower Glutamate levels in the brain. Screw alcohol, take CBD gummies. You will feel BETTER in the morning with these as you'll still be calm and "loose" rather than hungover and dehydrated. (@HeyThere)
- Cyproheptadine - it has a calming effect so maybe it could solve his problem in two ways - 1st that cypro makes better sleep in general, and 2nd that he will not be stressed while not being able to sleep. Go slow with Cypro...one drop does it for me. (@Mathgirl AND @wzuo AND @Mathgirl)
- Look into phosphatidylserine (@Kocky777)
- I sleep on the couch in the living room because "bed in bedroom" is too "OK NOW YOU SLEEP" for me and my mind starts over-thinking. I get it. The couch is unconventional so it feels like "in a hotel". (@HeyThere)
- So, in my own Insomnia thread, @Peatful gave me the very effective advice to eat "1 pound of sugar in three days". I ate approximately 200 grams of honey and tonight I slept REALLY WELL and was also able to sleep WITHIN A FEW MINUTES. (@Kocky777)
- One thing I meant to put in my original reply in regards to the hotel thing, is that you may just need a new mattress. Different sheets as well. Different pillows. (@Sphagnum AND @HeyThere)
- B vitamins (Via Dr. Stasha Gominak Neurologist research), Ice cream at night (Ray Peat), and Tocovit topically. (Idealabs via Haidut) (@Mathgirl)
- CBD Gummies (@frannybananny AND @HeyThere)
- Taurine is great, in fact I take magnesium taurate almost every night, milk thistle seems to help, 2 drops of Progest-E will really knock me out (@frannybananny)